TRENT JR turns down extension offer

[BlazersBroncos]

I find it very hard to believe a team that is due to pay Nurkic 20M+ in 2022 and spends 80M combined on two guards is going to be willing to match some of the money that should come Trent's way this offseason. I love the kid, but we should be looking at a consolidation trade for a star if there is even a small chance to do so.

Cashing in on GTJ and ZC prior to paying them would be a very smart move. I hate that its necessary, but this team could be looking at 118 in salary obligations summer 2022 counting only Dame (47M), CJ (33M), Nurkic (~20M) and GTJ (~18M). Thats just not sustainable (And I would argue removing from the equation GTJ, its still not sustainable without an insane increase in the salary cap).

I think its understated how tough the road ahead is going to be. Fielding a competitive team when you have 80M locked into two guards who are not, on their own, a contender caliber duo is rough. The only chance we get to the finals with Dame and CJ as our 1/2 is with a tremendously deep and talented supporting cast. And we really cant afford that given the duo's cost. So we are pretty screwed long term.

[Norm2953]

I'm one of the people who have been pounding the table for James Harden. If all these guys are producing, it might
be hard for Houston to turn down Portland's offer of CJ, GTJ, ZC and either little or Simons plus picks/swaps for
it would be a similar move to Portland's mid 80's trade for Kiki Vandeweghe who only was the league scoring champ.
Houston could then field a very strong, deep team with CJ playing a role similar to Beal played with the Wizards.

Portland likely move Dame into a SG role and he would get a ton of open looks with nobody able to double him
anymore unless they wanted Nurk to get open looks under the basket.

[BlazersBroncos]

I'm one of the people who have been pounding the table for James Harden. If all these guys are producing, it might
be hard for Houston to turn down Portland's offer of CJ, GTJ, ZC and either little or Simons plus picks/swaps for
it would be a similar move to Portland's mid 80's trade for Kiki Vandeweghe who only was the league scoring champ.
Houston could then field a very strong, deep team with CJ playing a role similar to Beal played with the Wizards.

Anyone who wouldnt make that move for Harden is delusional. Dame, Harden, Nurkic is a title caliber trio. Its a trio that you go deep into the luxury tax to surround with quality role players because the payoff of a chip is immensely realistic. You just dont make the same financial sacrifices to keep around a guy like GTJ.

Portland likely move Dame into a SG role and he would get a ton of open looks with nobody able to double him
anymore unless they wanted Nurk to get open looks under the basket.

Dame would certainly play off ball more but IDK about naming him a SG. They would take turns. Assuming you have the luxury of resting both more than their normal amt due to the team not needing 38mpg from them due to talent, you are looking at say 34mpg each. That means 14mpg per game of Dame playing w/o James and vice versa, and for those minutes they play pure PG. For the other 20 that they play together, you let them take turns handling the ball or turns via stretches of handling the ball. Its really not too hard to figure out.

The idea that we can field a team that has, for 48 minutes, at least one of Harden or Dame on the court makes me salivate. No more slumps when Dame needs to rest. No more traps at the end of games as both will be on the court. It would work, 100%.

Alas, its not going to happen. But I sure wish it did.

[DusterBuster]

I'm one of the people who have been pounding the table for James Harden. If all these guys are producing, it might
be hard for Houston to turn down Portland's offer of CJ, GTJ, ZC and either little or Simons plus picks/swaps for
it would be a similar move to Portland's mid 80's trade for Kiki Vandeweghe who only was the league scoring champ.
Houston could then field a very strong, deep team with CJ playing a role similar to Beal played with the Wizards.

Yeah, with all the other potential teams on Harden's list, I'm honestly not seeing a team that can put up a more competitive offer in terms of win-now talent, young high-level prospects and picks.

CJ would keep Houston in the playoff hunt in the west with Wall and GTj is a piece to build around long-term once CJ and Wall either are traded as expirings or let walk elsewhere. Throw that along with Collins and a couple picks and I don't see how others could top that with stuff like Brown from Boston or Dinnwitte and parts from Brooklyn.

[BlazersBroncos]

CJ would keep Houston in the playoff hunt in the west with Wall and GTj is a piece to build around long-term once CJ and Wall either are traded as expirings or let walk elsewhere. Throw that along with Collins and a couple picks and I don't see how others could top that with stuff like Brown from Boston or Dinnwitte and parts from Brooklyn.

I could see Brown having more value than CJ, GTJ and ZC combined. Young, paid, two way player who has playoff experience. He has tons and tons of value. But can he be productive outside a team with a number of guys who create for him? The big issue with Brown is his lack of playmaking and mediocre handle. Still think HOU would prefer him to those 3 combined though. As we try to sell off guys due money, we need to realize their value to other teams is lowered for the same payday reasoning IMO.

[Norm2953]

It's going to come down with selling Dame on the need to move his friend CJ but let's say as Nurk rounds into
form physically, Dame/Harden is a tough matchup unless a team allows Nurk open looks under the basket.

NO has to sit Dame down and explain to him friendship is one thing but if he wants to compete for a championship,
the difference between CJ and Harden is the difference between trying to win a first round matchup and
trying to win a conference final.

[Norm2953]

CJ would keep Houston in the playoff hunt in the west with Wall and GTj is a piece to build around long-term once CJ and Wall either are traded as expirings or let walk elsewhere. Throw that along with Collins and a couple picks and I don't see how others could top that with stuff like Brown from Boston or Dinnwitte and parts from Brooklyn.

I could see Brown having more value than CJ, GTJ and ZC combined. Young, paid, two way player who has playoff experience. He has tons and tons of value. But can he be productive outside a team with a number of guys who create for him? The big issue with Brown is his lack of playmaking and mediocre handle. Still think HOU would prefer him to those 3 combined though. As we try to sell off guys due money, we need to realize their value to other teams is lowered for the same payday reasoning IMO.

Boston historically has never made an all in trade and are notoriously hard negotiators. Dinwitte just tore his ACL and it out
for the season. Let's see if Philly ends up offering up Simmons but I wonder how bad shooters like Wall and Simmons could
work together.

[BlazersBroncos]

Boston historically has never made an all in trade and are notoriously hard negotiators. Dinwitte just tore his ACL and it out
for the season. Let's see if Philly ends up offering up Simmons but I wonder how bad shooters like Wall and Simmons could
work together.

I dont think Ainge is involved in the Harden sweepstakes. He is too frugal to make a trade that isnt a clear steal.

As for Simmons and Wall not fitting, I dont think Houston should even take that into account. You move Harden, your not competing at a serious level for a few years. Simmons youth and talent is clearly the best HOU can do, and if he doesnt fit with a broken, older Wall then so be it. At least thats what my take would be.

I think there is a chance Houston sits on Harden all season if they need to. If they were going to rush to trade him and get pennies on the dollar back, it would have happened a while ago.

[Norm2953]

I do think Philly if they wanted Harden, they would have had him weeks ago but their focus would be
better served if they could get a shooter to add to Simmons/Emblid. Imagine if they could use some
of that depth to add a CJ or Beal without sacrificing Simmons.

It will be interesting to see how Portland's team comes together assuming ZC can return and stay healthy.
Likely he will end up be the backup at both PF/C with GTJ playing SF/SG with the rest of the roster playing
as circumstances warrant it. I tend to think Portland will opt to match all offers to GTJ and will pray ZC
injury record will prevent him from getting a contract Portland could not match. Moving CJ might be the
only way to keep the team together, especially if DJJ really comes on.

[PDXKnight]

Oh good lord, don't ever, ever, ever compare Gary Trent Jr. to Allen Crabbe. That is a horrible comparison and an insult to Trent's work ethic. Crabbe had three years of college ball compared to one year for Trent, yet Trent's trajectory far exceeds that of Crabbe. After two seasons, Trent's career high was 30 points. After two seasons, Crabbe's career high was 11 points, a total Trent had met or exceeded 23 times by the end of his second season.

And scoring was Crabbe's "strong" point. Back in those pre-Nurk days, Crabbe was the worst defender on a terrible defensive team. After he got paid, Crabbe's inability to defend was exceeded by his lack of interest in even trying. Crabbe was one of the most 1-dimensional players I have ever seen. His one, and only, skill was making wide open, catch and shoot 3-pointers. He could not create for himself, or others, and was the worst rebounder in the league for a player his size. With the game on the line, he absolutely refused to shoot. He would pass up wide open 3-pointers and pass the ball back to a double teamed Dame as the clock expired. In addition to everything else, one thing Gary Trent Jr. does not lack is confidence. There is zero doubt he will ever pass up a big shot. It's just not in his DNA. Trent is also much better about shooting the 3 off the dribble, or with a hand in his face. We saw that multiple times last night, where Trent ball faked and took a dribble to sidestep a defender, something we never saw from Allen Crabbe.

Lol so you come at me after he had a huge game, pretty easy to say huh?

I think the two are quite comparable. Different players yes but both second round picks that were/are up for huge extensions that could pose a significant financial risk for us. I’m not arguing whether we should pull the trigger on matching just yet as time will tell (we have a whole season for him to prove or disprove his worth), but to say the two situations aren’t comparable is ludicrous I’d say

Just of one of many huge games he's had since August 1 (which were all "huger" than Crabbe's hugest game in POR). I predicted on draft night that Trent Jr. would be the steal of the draft. This isn't the first time I've heaped praise on him.

Crabbe at 24 was inferior to Trent at 21, and it wasn't close. The only reason Crabbe got that ridiculous offer sheet was BRK had no other way to acquire young players. They had traded all their first round picks to BOS and couldn't land any halfway decent unrestricted free agents, so they took the approach of offering toxic contracts to unrestricted free agents. Unfortunately, Neil matched that toxic offer. If Trent gets a huge offer sheet, it will be because he's actually good and deserves to get paid. Even Crabbe was stunned by the offer he got from BRK. Something tells me Gary Trent Jr. will be stunned if he doesn't get a huge offer sheet.

The situations my be vaguely similar, but the talent isn't. Not even close.

Seems like the verdict is still out to me. Feels as if you’ve already deemed him a 20 ppg player and that’s a definite possibility he becomes that but at the same time I’ve seen plenty of guys who are hyped before they fizzle out. Now if we could spend 45 mil on harden instead of 55 mil on cj + gtj I’d jump on that. That being said if that doesn’t come along I’m not saying I don’t match I just would say this season will tell me a lot about if he can score on a consistent basis if he’s given that opportunity

[PDXKnight]

I do think Philly if they wanted Harden, they would have had him weeks ago but their focus would be
better served if they could get a shooter to add to Simmons/Emblid. Imagine if they could use some
of that depth to add a CJ or Beal without sacrificing Simmons.

It will be interesting to see how Portland's team comes together assuming ZC can return and stay healthy.
Likely he will end up be the backup at both PF/C with GTJ playing SF/SG with the rest of the roster playing
as circumstances warrant it. I tend to think Portland will opt to match all offers to GTJ and will pray ZC
injury record will prevent him from getting a contract Portland could not match. Moving CJ might be the
only way to keep the team together, especially if DJJ really comes on.

I question whether Houston is ready to part ways with harden yet. It’s quite possible Philly offered and Houston is waiting to see if any other offers come about as well.

[acidfrehley]

Anyone who wouldnt make that move for Harden is delusional.

I'm completely fine being the delusional one here.

I wouldn't make this trade for Harden in any shape or form of a deal. You guys are counting that Dame+Harden would be a championship backourt. But the same was said about Harden and CP3 or Harden and WB and we all know how it went.

Doing a trade like this would piss of the one guy that has been carrying our franchise on its back, ruin our chemistry and probably backfire in having one (or both) of Harden and Dame demanding trades.

I agree that makes sense to seek trades for GTJ (even though I completely love him as our 6th man) and ZCO. But instead of cashing in on a high risk deal such as Harden, I'd aim to add more pieces that fit our core without blowing up chemistry.

[BlazersBroncos]

I have a odd feeling that GTJ gets a huge offer from New York this summer. He is a great compliment to RJ, who they want to move to SF. He fits their timeline w RJ / Toppin / Robinson / Quickley. He doesn't even overlap with their busted FRP's (Frank, Knox, DSJ). Just seems like a big threat. Cant wait to hear everyone disown him for taking the money over winning despite never being in his position themselves.

[PDXKnight]

Anyone who wouldnt make that move for Harden is delusional.

I'm completely fine being the delusional one here.

I wouldn't make this trade for Harden in any shape or form of a deal. You guys are counting that Dame+Harden would be a championship backourt. But the same was said about Harden and CP3 or Harden and WB and we all know how it went.

Doing a trade like this would piss of the one guy that has been carrying our franchise on its back, ruin our chemistry and probably backfire in having one (or both) of Harden and Dame demanding trades.

I agree that makes sense to seek trades for GTJ (even though I completely love him as our 6th man) and ZCO. But instead of cashing in on a high risk deal such as Harden, I'd aim to add more pieces that fit our core without blowing up chemistry.

Harden and dame are far more dynamic than Paul/harden and Westbrook/harden. Dame is a modern pg whereas Westbrook is a midrange shooter. Paul was solid when he came to Houston but past his prime.

I don’t think adding harden would piss of dame since dame wants the ship badly. I get that dame and cj have teammate chemistry but I think dame could get over it quick with an all nba teammate replacing him. And plus Dame is locked up for awhile anyways so it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t love it so long as he can stand it without demanding a trade (likely he’d be able to accept it given how it’d bolster our team)

As for risk yes the risk is there but when are we ever gonna have a shot to add a major player like harden? The last time we did so in a blockbuster trade was pippen but harden is significantly better than Scottie was when we added him. I’d say it’s a much bigger risk to not consolidate our talent for a big star as sitting on our current roster just about guarantees we don’t win a title with this core. Yeah it’s risky but I think it’d be easy to get over that pretty quick when we see harden in a blazer uni. Championships aren’t guaranteed but I believe adding harden gives us a fighting chance which is much better than where we stand today

[DaVoiceMaster]

What about CJ (and change) to Houston, Harden to Philly, and Simmons (and change) to Portland?

[DusterBuster]

What about CJ (and change) to Houston, Harden to Philly, and Simmons (and change) to Portland?

I'd rather have Harden tbh.

[BNM]

Lol so you come at me after he had a huge game, pretty easy to say huh?

I think the two are quite comparable. Different players yes but both second round picks that were/are up for huge extensions that could pose a significant financial risk for us. I’m not arguing whether we should pull the trigger on matching just yet as time will tell (we have a whole season for him to prove or disprove his worth), but to say the two situations aren’t comparable is ludicrous I’d say

Just of one of many huge games he's had since August 1 (which were all "huger" than Crabbe's hugest game in POR). I predicted on draft night that Trent Jr. would be the steal of the draft. This isn't the first time I've heaped praise on him.

Crabbe at 24 was inferior to Trent at 21, and it wasn't close. The only reason Crabbe got that ridiculous offer sheet was BRK had no other way to acquire young players. They had traded all their first round picks to BOS and couldn't land any halfway decent unrestricted free agents, so they took the approach of offering toxic contracts to unrestricted free agents. Unfortunately, Neil matched that toxic offer. If Trent gets a huge offer sheet, it will be because he's actually good and deserves to get paid. Even Crabbe was stunned by the offer he got from BRK. Something tells me Gary Trent Jr. will be stunned if he doesn't get a huge offer sheet.

The situations my be vaguely similar, but the talent isn't. Not even close.

Seems like the verdict is still out to me. Feels as if you’ve already deemed him a 20 ppg player and that’s a definite possibility he becomes that but at the same time I’ve seen plenty of guys who are hyped before they fizzle out. Now if we could spend 45 mil on harden instead of 55 mil on cj + gtj I’d jump on that. That being said if that doesn’t come along I’m not saying I don’t match I just would say this season will tell me a lot about if he can score on a consistent basis if he’s given that opportunity

No need to make assumptions about my feelings. I never deemed Trent a 20ppg scorer, and saying he's already better than Allen Crabbe is not the same thing. 3 games into his third season, and the same age as rookie Crabbe, Trent Jr. is already a better shooter, has already had way more big games, can shoot off the dribble and actually plays defense. The last two skills Crabbe never mastered, either in his time in POR, or after. So, there's a whole lot of room between being better than Allen Crabbe and averaging 20ppg.

That said, in the right situation, I do believe Trent Jr. can average 20ppg, but that right situation is not playing behind Dame and C.J. Teams with three 20ppg scorers are quite rare and I don't recall a team ever having 3 guards that averaged 20 ppg. So yes, I believe Gray Trent Jr. could eventually average 20ppg as a starter on another team or perhaps starting in POR if C.J. is traded, but not as part of a three guard line up of Dame, C.J. and Trent.

[BlazersBroncos]

I agree that makes sense to seek trades for GTJ (even though I completely love him as our 6th man) and ZCO. But instead of cashing in on a high risk deal such as Harden, I'd aim to add more pieces that fit our core without blowing up chemistry.

This core is going nowhere. High risk is the only way this team becomes a true contender. Playing it safe is a ticket to the treadmill.

I also dont consider trading for a top 8 player as 'high risk'.

If Dame cant get over his friend getting traded to improve the team than he isnt the leader we thought he was. This isnt middle school, its a professional sports league.

[DusterBuster]

I agree that makes sense to seek trades for GTJ (even though I completely love him as our 6th man) and ZCO. But instead of cashing in on a high risk deal such as Harden, I'd aim to add more pieces that fit our core without blowing up chemistry.

This core is going nowhere. High risk is the only way this team becomes a true contender. Playing it safe is a ticket to the treadmill.

I also dont consider trading for a top 8 player as 'high risk'.

If Dame cant get over his friend getting traded to improve the team than he isnt the leader we thought he was. This isnt middle school, its a professional sports league.

I feel like the term "treadmill" gets thrown around too much. I think this team can potentially do great things with its core, it's already proven it can, however, they need a pretty significant amount of luck in terms of matchups to do so. Granted, that's mostly true for all teams.

That said, I agree with your overall point that you need a move like Harden to be a "true" contender, wherein winning at the highest level requires a lot less "luck".

[BlazersBroncos]

I feel like the term "treadmill" gets thrown around too much. I think this team can potentially do great things with its core, it's already proven it can, however, they need a pretty significant amount of luck in terms of matchups to do so. Granted, that's mostly true for all teams.

That said, I agree with your overall point that you need a move like Harden to be a "true" contender, wherein winning at the highest level requires a lot less "luck".

I agree, I think we are above a treadmill. The term pretender is more apt.

The idea to win with a team constructed similar to Detroit in 2000 and Dallas in 2011 is flawed because those teams were simply more talented top-to-bottom than even our current squad, which is the best we have had in years, and it still took Dirk going supernova and tons of good luck for them to win one. And this was right at the start of the super team era, now there are multiple super teams to deal with.