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Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW

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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#41 » by Epicurus » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:02 pm

DaVoiceMaster wrote:
d-train wrote:
Epicurus wrote:Must be like how the Warriors felt in that final playoff game of '19 when Meyers Leonard was unstoppable.

Yes, Warriors gave Meyers those shots and Blazers gave them to Muscala. The advantage gained was an extra defender and rebounder in the lane. Trade-offs are part of good defense.


Too bad most of the players can't defend Actually playing defense is an even better part of a good defense. There was a lot of watching last night. When an opposing team has a center that can shoot the 3 point shot, they are always going to have a field day with Kanter on the floor. I was actually thinking the Blazers should have gone with Giles a bit more last night simply because Kanter will not go out to the 3 point line to defend.

I was really surprised the Blazers did not try and take advantage of OKC's size last night down in the post. Kanter should have had a field day with Roby and Muscala, but they didn't really even go to him.
I would have been much happier with less Logo Lillard distance heaves and more feeding Kanter in the low post. That would have been at least 10 more efficient points. Kanter for his few touches was doing the George Mikan drill during a game.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#42 » by JasonStern » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:03 pm

d-train wrote:
JasonStern wrote:If Isaiah Thomas has ANYTHING left in the tank, how do the Blazers not sign him?

We are in a line of 29 other teams waiting to not sign him.


Just like we were in a line of 29 teams not looking to sign Carmelo last season. Seems pretty low risk/high reward if he's capable of passing a physical and workout/interview.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#43 » by Epicurus » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:07 pm

d-train wrote:
DaVoiceMaster wrote:
d-train wrote:Yes, Warriors gave Meyers those shots and Blazers gave them to Muscala. The advantage gained was an extra defender and rebounder in the lane. Trade-offs are part of good defense.


Too bad most of the players can't defend Actually playing defense is an even better part of a good defense. There was a lot of watching last night. When an opposing team has a center that can shoot the 3 point shot, they are always going to have a field day with Kanter on the floor. I was actually thinking the Blazers should have gone with Giles a bit more last night simply because Kanter will not go out to the 3 point line to defend.

I was really surprised the Blazers did not try and take advantage of OKC's size last night down in the post. Kanter should have had a field day with Roby and Muscala, but they didn't really even go to him.

Kanter can shutdown Muscala at the 3-point anytime. Those shots were created by Muscala’s teammates beating other defenders, not Kanter.
Very true. Lillard in particular failed numerously to contain his man from going downhill fast. The Blazer centers attempt to help on these drive and the ball is dished to their 3 shooting big. Repeat and rinse. When his shots and drives are failing, Lillard is a bit of a liability, as he was last night. But nothing can be done about it. That frustrating.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#44 » by d-train » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:15 pm

JasonStern wrote:
d-train wrote:
JasonStern wrote:If Isaiah Thomas has ANYTHING left in the tank, how do the Blazers not sign him?

We are in a line of 29 other teams waiting to not sign him.


Just like we were in a line of 29 teams not looking to sign Carmelo last season. Seems pretty low risk/high reward if he's capable of passing a physical and workout/interview.

We need Melo. Do you think we need Thomas to do Lillard's job?
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#45 » by JasonStern » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:02 pm

d-train wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
d-train wrote:We are in a line of 29 other teams waiting to not sign him.


Just like we were in a line of 29 teams not looking to sign Carmelo last season. Seems pretty low risk/high reward if he's capable of passing a physical and workout/interview.

We need Melo. Do you think we need Thomas to do Lillard's job?


Not Lillard's job - Simons' job now that CJ is out. The fact that Lillard is playing great off ball is just a bonus.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#46 » by d-train » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:03 pm

JasonStern wrote:
d-train wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
Just like we were in a line of 29 teams not looking to sign Carmelo last season. Seems pretty low risk/high reward if he's capable of passing a physical and workout/interview.

We need Melo. Do you think we need Thomas to do Lillard's job?


Not Lillard's job - Simons' job now that CJ is out. The fact that Lillard is playing great off ball is just a bonus.

Just recently Blazers executed their $3.9M option on Simons for next season. Previously, on 9/24/19, Blazers executed their option to keep Simons for this season. I don't recall anyone calling the decisions to retain Simons a mistake. Are you saying now, Blazers should've let Simons become a free agent so they could use Simons spot on the team to sign and pay Thomas?
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#47 » by JasonStern » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:05 pm

d-train wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
d-train wrote:We need Melo. Do you think we need Thomas to do Lillard's job?


Not Lillard's job - Simons' job now that CJ is out. The fact that Lillard is playing great off ball is just a bonus.

Just recently Blazers executed their $3.9M option on Simons for next season. Previously, on 9/24/19, Blazers executed their option to keep Simons for this season. I don't recall anyone calling the decisions to retain Simons a mistake. Are you saying now, Blazers should've let Simons become a free agent so they could use Simons spot on the team to sign and pay Thomas?


Roster limit is 15. Blazers have 14 players signed. The Hood extension should have been slightly lower to ensure that a veteran minimum player could be signed in-season in the event of exactly what we had - a series of unpredictable injuries. If Thomas has anything left, he'd be a useful addition until CJ gets back.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#48 » by monopoman » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:18 pm

I would vastly prefer to give minutes to Simons, than sign Thomas on some random 2 year deal. Simons has shown greatness in flashes and the team talks about what he shows in practice that he just has trouble putting on the court.

I think given enough time and patience he could be a damn good player for this team. Just because Trent Jr. has a quicker learning curve doesn't mean that Simons is trash forever.

I have a feeling if Simons was thrown into the fire as the starter on day 1 he would have shown a lot more at this point, having to be behind two guards that take up a ton of minutes in CJ+Lillard has made it tougher on him.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#49 » by Epicurus » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:23 pm

Epicurus wrote:One Blazer lineup killed them tonight. Lillard, Simons, Trent, Jones , and Kanter. It was only on the court 6:56 minutes, but was a minus 20, shooting an efg$ of .292 against the Thunder's 1.077. Why was this lineup so incredible poor on both ends?


Maybe part of the answer to my question is that last night was the first time that lineup has been on the court together. It may not have chemistry. Often over the years when a lineup plays poorly(worse together than their individual contributions in other lineups) a coach says "these guys play like they never seen each other before." Lineups are greater/lesser than the sum of their parts, they have synergy or chemistry. Also it could have been the matchup lineups of the Thunder during those times.

Lineups matter.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#50 » by d-train » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:16 am

JasonStern wrote:
d-train wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
Not Lillard's job - Simons' job now that CJ is out. The fact that Lillard is playing great off ball is just a bonus.

Just recently Blazers executed their $3.9M option on Simons for next season. Previously, on 9/24/19, Blazers executed their option to keep Simons for this season. I don't recall anyone calling the decisions to retain Simons a mistake. Are you saying now, Blazers should've let Simons become a free agent so they could use Simons spot on the team to sign and pay Thomas?


Roster limit is 15. Blazers have 14 players signed. The Hood extension should have been slightly lower to ensure that a veteran minimum player could be signed in-season in the event of exactly what we had - a series of unpredictable injuries. If Thomas has anything left, he'd be a useful addition until CJ gets back.

There is nothing stopping Blazers from signing Thomas right now, other than good sense. Are you calling for Blazers to fill their 15th roster spot right now, before the March buyout free agents hit the market?
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#51 » by Matt800 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:48 am

BlazersBroncos wrote:
I didnt watch closely but it looked like he was a negative for a lot of the game. Like being out of position, missing easy shots, fouls, etc. He did start hitting shots but it seemed like too little too late.


He still doesnt do much at a high level but if his shot is falling he is at least playable for small stretches. He has zero PG instincts, doesnt have the mass to finish and gets bullied on D. But his shot is quick and pretty.

Looks alot like Langston Galloway to me honestly.


I think if he were on a team where he could do whatever he wanted, that might help him develop. As is it looks like he's been told a lot about what he should do, so he looks like he is restricting himself and overthinking. I think if he can find a big enough role either with the blazers through injuries, or with another team, he will have a good chance of being a decent player. He did look better at times in the recent games. Just has a ways go to.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#52 » by DaVoiceMaster » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:53 am

d-train wrote:
DaVoiceMaster wrote:
d-train wrote:Yes, Warriors gave Meyers those shots and Blazers gave them to Muscala. The advantage gained was an extra defender and rebounder in the lane. Trade-offs are part of good defense.


Too bad most of the players can't defend Actually playing defense is an even better part of a good defense. There was a lot of watching last night. When an opposing team has a center that can shoot the 3 point shot, they are always going to have a field day with Kanter on the floor. I was actually thinking the Blazers should have gone with Giles a bit more last night simply because Kanter will not go out to the 3 point line to defend.

I was really surprised the Blazers did not try and take advantage of OKC's size last night down in the post. Kanter should have had a field day with Roby and Muscala, but they didn't really even go to him.

Kanter can shutdown Muscala at the 3-point anytime. Those shots were created by Muscala’s teammates beating other defenders, not Kanter.


Apparently we watched completely different games. The game I watched showed Kanter not even wanting to go all the way out to the 3 point line. He'd take a few steps, but didn't commit because he's slow as molasses if the player takes off to go around him. Not sure which game you watched.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#53 » by DaVoiceMaster » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:58 am

Epicurus wrote:
Epicurus wrote:One Blazer lineup killed them tonight. Lillard, Simons, Trent, Jones , and Kanter. It was only on the court 6:56 minutes, but was a minus 20, shooting an efg$ of .292 against the Thunder's 1.077. Why was this lineup so incredible poor on both ends?


Maybe part of the answer to my question is that last night was the first time that lineup has been on the court together. It may not have chemistry. Often over the years when a lineup plays poorly(worse together than their individual contributions in other lineups) a coach says "these guys play like they never seen each other before." Lineups are greater/lesser than the sum of their parts, they have synergy or chemistry. Also it could have been the matchup lineups of the Thunder during those times.

Lineups matter.


Unfortunately, the Blazers couldn't put a much better lineup on the floor. Who else would you put out there besides Melo? Giles or Little were the only other options.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#54 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:39 am

Lost in the shuffle is how clueless Nassir still looks. He is a nice example of looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. He can rebound, thats about all I saw out of him. We all knew he was a project, but even projects have flashes (See Simons last game against SAC as a rookie).

If he can carve out a Soloman Hill type role that would be great but I wont expect much more. I hope it clicks because by all accounts he is a great young man.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#55 » by JasonStern » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:51 am

monopoman wrote:I would vastly prefer to give minutes to Simons, than sign Thomas on some random 2 year deal. Simons has shown greatness in flashes and the team talks about what he shows in practice that he just has trouble putting on the court.

I think given enough time and patience he could be a damn good player for this team. Just because Trent Jr. has a quicker learning curve doesn't mean that Simons is trash forever.

I have a feeling if Simons was thrown into the fire as the starter on day 1 he would have shown a lot more at this point, having to be behind two guards that take up a ton of minutes in CJ+Lillard has made it tougher on him.


Nobody said anything about a two-year contract. All I said was playing Simons 29+ minutes a game at this point is not conductive of winning basketball. And as such, a backup PG would be nice to have until CJ returns.


d-train wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
d-train wrote:Just recently Blazers executed their $3.9M option on Simons for next season. Previously, on 9/24/19, Blazers executed their option to keep Simons for this season. I don't recall anyone calling the decisions to retain Simons a mistake. Are you saying now, Blazers should've let Simons become a free agent so they could use Simons spot on the team to sign and pay Thomas?


Roster limit is 15. Blazers have 14 players signed. The Hood extension should have been slightly lower to ensure that a veteran minimum player could be signed in-season in the event of exactly what we had - a series of unpredictable injuries. If Thomas has anything left, he'd be a useful addition until CJ gets back.

There is nothing stopping Blazers from signing Thomas right now, other than good sense. Are you calling for Blazers to fill their 15th roster spot right now, before the March buyout free agents hit the market?


Given how the injury bug has hit Portland now - not in March, yeah. Plenty of reasons why Thomas might be a bad idea if he hasn't recovered enough to be a serviceable NBA backup PG, but then I wouldn't advocate signing him if that's the case.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#56 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:06 am

DaVoiceMaster wrote:Apparently we watched completely different games. The game I watched showed Kanter not even wanting to go all the way out to the 3 point line. He'd take a few steps, but didn't commit because he's slow as molasses if the player takes off to go around him. Not sure which game you watched.


That's what I saw too. Although I will say we don't really want Kanter out there, he is too liable to commit a foul, or give up an easy drive, so better for him to contest while keeping himself in front and in somewhat of a rebounding position. If Kanter could defend the 3 point line he would be starting for another team and making way more than 5 million. Someone else should be defending Muscala out that far but it seemed too often they got Kanter on an island against that matchup and the Blazers weren't able to compensate.


BlazersBroncos wrote:Lost in the shuffle is how clueless Nassir still looks. He is a nice example of looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. He can rebound, thats about all I saw out of him. We all knew he was a project, but even projects have flashes (See Simons last game against SAC as a rookie).

If he can carve out a Soloman Hill type role that would be great but I wont expect much more. I hope it clicks because by all accounts he is a great young man.


Agreed. He had some strong rebounds and one really nice block but that was about it. I didn't even notice his defense very much. He's got tools but is too far away to expect him to put it together in a year or two.

JasonStern wrote:Nobody said anything about a two-year contract. All I said was playing Simons 29+ minutes a game at this point is not conductive of winning basketball. And as such, a backup PG would be nice to have until CJ returns.


Really all I want is a change of pace from our stable of score-first type PGs. It has happened so often in the Olshey-Stotts era that when Damian is off the floor our offense will sometimes stagnate and we go to things like CJ or Melo in an ISO situation.

I still like Simons long-term potential, but as I said sometimes we need a change of pace and a pass-first type veteran PG could really help us in those situations when the offense stagnates so that we don't have to always revert to ISO scoring to get it going again. They don't have to play very much or even every game, but its a worthwhile card to have in ones back-pocket.

I cannot believe that Stotts/Olshey have overlooked that type of role player, it must be a conscious decision to build around scoring PGs. It is kind of the "in vogue" trend for the NBA so I'm not saying its wrong (although I think its easier to stop an offense where your PG and top scorer are the same player - you sell out to stop them and you hit two birds with one stone) but just occasionally having a different look to throw out there when things get bogged down and rough would seem smart.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#57 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:28 am

I still like Simons long-term potential, but as I said sometimes we need a change of pace and a pass-first type veteran PG could really help us in those situations when the offense stagnates so that we don't have to always revert to ISO scoring to get it going again. They don't have to play very much or even every game, but its a worthwhile card to have in ones back-pocket.


Outside the box and not playoff playable (Most likely) but Facundo Campazzo would fit into our TPE if I am not mistaken. Was a great offensive player in Europe, definition of pass first and a wonky 3PT shot that manages to go in somehow. He isnt getting any minutes in DEN and probably would love a trade to a team where he can get more run.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#58 » by Epicurus » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:02 am

DaVoiceMaster wrote:
Epicurus wrote:
Epicurus wrote:One Blazer lineup killed them tonight. Lillard, Simons, Trent, Jones , and Kanter. It was only on the court 6:56 minutes, but was a minus 20, shooting an efg$ of .292 against the Thunder's 1.077. Why was this lineup so incredible poor on both ends?


Maybe part of the answer to my question is that last night was the first time that lineup has been on the court together. It may not have chemistry. Often over the years when a lineup plays poorly(worse together than their individual contributions in other lineups) a coach says "these guys play like they never seen each other before." Lineups are greater/lesser than the sum of their parts, they have synergy or chemistry. Also it could have been the matchup lineups of the Thunder during those times.

Lineups matter.


Unfortunately, the Blazers couldn't put a much better lineup on the floor. Who else would you put out there besides Melo? Giles or Little were the only other options.
That indeed is one of the problems related to injuries--the need to play lineups with no familiarity working together as an unit. Of course, that lineup with its -20 deficit in 7 minutes means that the other lineups used were a combined +17 for the remaining 41 minutes (not all were positive, but only very small deficits). That 7 minutes were in three stints, I believe. Too bad other lineups weren't extend and at least this one not used in its last two stints. The stats guy should have flagged this lineups minus 10 in its first stint.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#59 » by Epicurus » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:06 am

BlazersBroncos wrote:Lost in the shuffle is how clueless Nassir still looks. He is a nice example of looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. He can rebound, thats about all I saw out of him. We all knew he was a project, but even projects have flashes (See Simons last game against SAC as a rookie).

If he can carve out a Soloman Hill type role that would be great but I wont expect much more. I hope it clicks because by all accounts he is a great young man.

Given his ordeal with covid I am pleased that he can even be in the layup line. It hit him really hard. I trust he is being well monitored medically.
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Re: Game 16: Portland vs OKC 7:00pm SNW 

Post#60 » by GEE » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:17 am

This Blazer team is in trouble... again, and replacing ANT with IT is not the answer. Firing Stotts IS! I'm ready to say that with all the ridiculous injury history, Stotts should go simply on the basis of being unlucky.

Crazy to think going into the season, with all that talent on the roster, I wondered how the heck do you get all of these guys that are deserving of minutes, actual minutes. Now, we again have multiple starters out, and we're playing everyone besides the rookies real minutes.

I also believe strongly that if the job were available, it could be highly sought after for various reasons (said could, not would on purpose because I worry that the Vulcans in Seattle could be an influence on coaching decisions). Reasons to come: Portland is a beautiful city, with lots of amenities and decent weather. Rich owner. A solid cast of players with good talent, high character, and no headcases. Great fans. Tame media.

Losing this game to OKC, while running that obviously flawed small-man line-up should be enough for Olshey. Your just unlucky Terry... That's all. I'd rather let the players coach and sub themselves at this point. Hell, you have 3 Dukies... Run Coach K's system with some Syracuse zone. On that note, maybe Olshey should drop the coach a line. Wouldn't hurt, plus ya never know. Valentines Day is right around the corner. Send Coach K a card and offer to make him a rich man.

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