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Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ

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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#101 » by Norm2953 » Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:11 pm

Under more regular circumstances, CJ's discount would be fine but after agreeing to pay Dame's supermax
extension, adding such a contract for a non all-star hamstrings the team financially for 2022-24. It would
be one thing if we were a championship contender but as it stands, we're not likely going to be favored in
any first round playoff matchup if our opponent is at full strength.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#102 » by Vampirate » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:49 pm

Village Idiot wrote:
d-train wrote:
Pattycakes wrote:
Keeping Stotts with this clearly bad of a defensive chemistry is the reason everyone should be upset... blaming the personnel is a huge misfire

We improved our defense today. We subtracted 2 subpar defenders and added 1 very good defender. Plus, now we can put 3 great shooters on the floor and have a ball-hawking defender. Or, we can go 4 great shooters, Lillard, CJ, Powell, and Melo, and use Powell as a great defender on-ball or he can defend a bigger player. Having 3, not great, defenders was difficult to overcome. And, with Lillard, CJ, and GTJ, there was nobody good defending length.

Powelll is also an upgrade scoring in the paint and rebounding. It will be nice having someone, besides Lillard, who can take it to the basket.
Except Powell is not a ball-hawk or a great defender. His outside shooting is great but so was GTJ's. The only improvement is that Powell is a much better ball-handler who can create a little bit.

Nothing against Powell but not getting Aaron Gordon (who does solve a need) and losing him to a division rival is really disappointing. :roll:

If this team doesn't make it out of the first round Olshey and Stotts need to be let go and CJ must be traded.


I'll be rooting for you guys.

Powell is easily the best scorer you could have gotten for GTJ. Gary has never put up anything close to 50/40/90 that Powell has.

Regardless if GTJ becomes the better player, that's down the pipeline and by then Dame and CJ will be exiting their primes anyways. You guys need players who fit their timeline which is now.

Here's some numbers to digest overall in terms of scoring efficiency.

This season on their previous teams

Powell--------------19.6 PPG---on---13.5 shots
GTJ-----------------15.0 PPG---on---12.8 shots
Aaron Gordon-----14.6 PPG---on---11.7 shots

You guys just straight up grabbed one of the most efficient scorers in the league, and by the look at the 1st 2 games in Portland, that hasn't changed.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#103 » by Myth » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:06 pm

d-train wrote:
TD2FutureStar wrote:Hopefully you guys can re-sign Norm. Once you see him dominate in the playoffs you're going to want the team to pay the man whatever he wants. As well as he's played this regular season he has a completely different gear for playoff basketball. Enjoy and take care my boy Norm! *tears

It's a small sample, but I don't remember GTJ even having a good playoffs game. He played well in the bubble before the playoffs.

I think he got a pass because he was asked to guard LeBron who he isn't remotely physically equipped to do. But even drawing that assignment at his height speaks to how well his defense is respected.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#104 » by Oden2 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:07 pm

Vampirate wrote:
Village Idiot wrote:
d-train wrote:We improved our defense today. We subtracted 2 subpar defenders and added 1 very good defender. Plus, now we can put 3 great shooters on the floor and have a ball-hawking defender. Or, we can go 4 great shooters, Lillard, CJ, Powell, and Melo, and use Powell as a great defender on-ball or he can defend a bigger player. Having 3, not great, defenders was difficult to overcome. And, with Lillard, CJ, and GTJ, there was nobody good defending length.

Powelll is also an upgrade scoring in the paint and rebounding. It will be nice having someone, besides Lillard, who can take it to the basket.
Except Powell is not a ball-hawk or a great defender. His outside shooting is great but so was GTJ's. The only improvement is that Powell is a much better ball-handler who can create a little bit.

Nothing against Powell but not getting Aaron Gordon (who does solve a need) and losing him to a division rival is really disappointing. :roll:

If this team doesn't make it out of the first round Olshey and Stotts need to be let go and CJ must be traded.


I'll be rooting for you guys.

Powell is easily the best scorer you could have gotten for GTJ. Gary has never put up anything close to 50/40/90 that Powell has.

Regardless if GTJ becomes the better player, that's down the pipeline and by then Dame and CJ will be exiting their primes anyways. You guys need players who fit their timeline which is now.

Here's some numbers to digest overall in terms of scoring efficiency.

This season on their previous teams

Powell--------------19.6 PPG---on---13.5 shots
GTJ-----------------15.0 PPG---on---12.8 shots
Aaron Gordon-----14.6 PPG---on---11.7 shots

You guys just straight up grabbed one of the most efficient scorers in the league, and by the look at the 1st 2 games in Portland, that hasn't changed.


I think toronto got the better end of the deal due to gary’s rfa status. Powell could easily bail on us
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#105 » by d-train » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:01 pm

Oden2 wrote:
I think toronto got the better end of the deal due to gary’s rfa status. Powell could easily bail on us

I don't think so. Even if we lose Powell for nothing, I think we already could calculate we were going to lose GTJ in RFA for nothing. IOW, we would not match his offer.

Here are my assumptions:
1) Blazers and Raptors offered their player the top dollar they would pay. Both players turned their offers down.

2) Blazers refusal rights are worthless unless GTJ signs an offer for less than Blazers offered him. Blazers believe GTJ will get a higher offer in the market that we will not match.

3) The market for GTJ might be better than the market for Powell is. GTJ is 21 and has potentially 2 big contracts ahead of him. Powell is 26 and this is his last big contract. This makes GTJ a better target assuming the quality of player is similar. GTJ's bird rights give a team over the cap a good CBA exception to spend money over the cap 2 free agency periods.

4) Powell's free agent options might not be as good as he is hoping for because of his age. Teams under the cap will prefer players 24 or younger. No matter how good you are, you can't get paid without a willing bidder that the CBA allows to spend money.

5) Powell is a better player now than GTJ.

6) Powell and GTJ could likely get similar FA offers even though Powell is better.

7) Blazers could lose Powell in free agency. But, the chances of retaining him are good. Once GTJ turned down our best offer, his first refusal rights are looking worthless.

8) The better player is worth more to Blazers than having bird rights to pay a player in 2 free agency markets. GTJ's age gives more value to his bird rights 4-5 years from now. Powell's bird rights 4 years from now might not be worth much.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#106 » by HoopsFanAZ » Fri Apr 2, 2021 5:26 am

d-train wrote:
Oden2 wrote:
I think toronto got the better end of the deal due to gary’s rfa status. Powell could easily bail on us

I don't think so. Even if we lose Powell for nothing, I think we already could calculate we were going to lose GTJ in RFA for nothing. IOW, we would not match his offer.

Here are my assumptions:
1) Blazers and Raptors offered their player the top dollar they would pay. Both players turned their offers down.
...
5) Powell is a better player now than GTJ.
...


While a good player is good wherever he plays, seeing Powell play with the Blazers for a few games is a done deal. Better then GTJ now. If GTJ ever catches up, I will be surprised and happy for him. Keep Norm. He has skills and is a different breed of baller. There’s less subtlety to his play, and it’s needed on this team. CJ is a separate decision/issue.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#107 » by Norm2953 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 5:50 am

Let's see how the 3 guard lineup goes but I keep seeing potential first round matchups against
either LA teams and perhaps Denver as a real problem for Powell will have to deal with MPJ
(Denver), LAC (PG) and LAL (Lebron). We might be better off finishing at 7 with a matchup
with Phoenix (Mikal Bridges). Perhaps Stotts might try CJ as the sixth man and bring back
DJJ giving bench solid energy and offense when CJ and Melo come in given Powell is the
better defender and has a lot of playoff experience.

Whether the team is better with Powell is besides the point for the deal is done. After the season
is done, Portland will have to evaluate their best course of action. Supposedly, Powell wants a
$50 Million/2 contract but Portland has the rest of the season and playoffs to see how he fits
and whether they are better off paying him more money to stay since they have his bird rights.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#108 » by d-train » Fri Apr 2, 2021 12:40 pm

Lillard, CJ, and GTJ was a flawed lineup and swapping Powell for GTJ addresses the biggest flaw.

The first question you must address is what happens when faced with a big lineup. Your answer better be the big lineup is in big trouble because they can't defend us. The problem with GTJ in the lineup is big players could defend him. Powell can take a big man outside and shoot or go all the way to the basket and finish or pass against a broken defense. Big men could stay in front of GTJ and consistently force lower percentage shoots than a good big man could get against GTJ.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#109 » by JasonStern » Fri Apr 2, 2021 3:57 pm

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Reporter: Why don't you ever pass to the cutter?
Carmelo: I think there has been enough blood shed in my lifetime.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#110 » by d-train » Sun Apr 4, 2021 12:03 am

I read somewhere that Powell wants a 2-year deal. If true, this is a huge break for Blazers. Even a hugely expensive 2-year/$50M deal is at least $35M cheaper than a 4 year deal would cost. And, realistically because of the age of Lillard and CJ, our visibility of 3 years out is not good. We should avoid any expensive commitments that far into the future.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#111 » by GEE » Sun Apr 4, 2021 1:24 am

Defense Matters, at least it does with the better teams in the NBA, and our offense has never been the problem. Having to go with small lineups largely due to injuries is undoubtedly the reason we have been so bad on the defensive side of the ball.

I'll bring up the GSW, AGAIN! They had Monte Ellis, a 25 ppg scorer, and in the draft saw a player in Curry that they felt had franchise potential. So they traded Ellis, knowing that 6'3 & 6'3 at the two guard spots could not be a winning strategy. It was not seen then as popular with fans, because they didn't get a ton for Ellis, iirc. What they did get was draft picks and financial flexibility, and one Klay Thompson, a 6'8 SG that plays both ends of the floor. The Blazers went a different direction obviously.

Now back to the present... GTJ also plays both ends of the floor well, this I have seen, and at 6'6 with broad shoulders and a nose for causing havoc, he added a ton to the Blazers success'. GTJ also became good enough to be considered a starting talent, and this should not be overlooked. I think it's entirely possible Dame, in CJ's defense, may have had alot to do with this trade to move GTJ and to a lesser extent, Hood. It looks to me like a move to put CJ's concerns over trade talk at ease. Seems to me we had the perfect guy to replace CJ, but Olshey just couldn't let CJ go, or.... Dame wouldn't allow it which is a bigger problem.

I'm just not convinced that this trade was a win at all. Sure, if you look at just the shooting numbers, but I have yet to see Powell do anything that GTJ hasn't. Also, we gave up on Hood. A much better version of Melo IMO and though not near 100% of his former self, I think he was also an important part of building a title team. As a 6'8 knock down shooter, he will be missed... likely not by Melo.

But we got another 6'3 guard that's had one impressive year of stats. After Olshey worked so hard to bring in size and length to the forward spots, I think we took a huge step in the wrong direction. Dame and Stotts not being able to figure out how to get out of the basement of defensive ratings, along with the comfort concerns of players like CJ and Melo, I feel is the larger reason this deal got done. It's not an issue of talent upgrade or not... It's an issue of player and coach issues.

Stotts can now double-down on stupid, give up on playing defense, and just outscore everyone. Afterall, 3 is more than 2... we just need to make more of them right? Plus we can't do anything that will get in the way of Dame's MVP run. We must get him his 30 ppg, right? What a joke. Back to the treadmill.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#112 » by Norm2953 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 2:38 am

What's done is done but I don't view GTJ as developing into anything close to Klay who is an all-pro
caliber defender. Those great GSW teams had plus defenders at four position when Draymond Green
played center with KD, Iggy and Klay.

It's going to take a new coach and likely a new GM before Portland is going to think about defense.
That 3 guard lineup is going to get torched in the playoffs with the big front courts with both LA
teams, Denver. They will have to sit one of the guards and play Roco and DJJ but Powell is likely
get frozen out of the offense when Dame/CJ and Melo play their my turn offense which drives most
of us nuts when he comes off the bench. Let's see how far they go this playoff season but if they
crash and burn, will the accountants in Seattle order the changes?
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#113 » by GEE » Sun Apr 4, 2021 4:53 pm

To be clear, I'm not saying this trade can't work for the betterment of the team. It actually could, but if Powell isn't willing to, or is psychologically unable to come off the bench... then this team will suffer. The guys I worry about most are the ones not named Dame, CJ or Norman. Stotts expects Nurkic & ROCO to do all the dirty work inside, undermanned, and as a result, taking a physical beating almost every game. Same goes for Kanter & Jones. I'm mostly worried about one of these guys getting injured as a result of playing so small.

An up-tempo, unselfish style of play with more passing and cutting we have all seen glimpses of. We know it's possible and find it pretty when we do rarely see it, but now we seem to have doubled down on small. Trading away 6'6 & 6'8 for 6'3 didn't help much, but it did remove some serious distractions and thinned the heard for playing time. I think Olshey may have made his decision on just how much he could spend on Gary, and was only going to keep one of Hood or Jones Jr. long-term anyway. Pure speculation of course, but makes some sense. Anyway deals done.

If Stotts would just play the current style, but with a balanced line-up, we could still put fear in other teams. Just stop playing guys out of position. There's no need to do it, and players get hurt as a result of it.

Dame / CJ / Powell / (Simons)
Nurkic / Kanter / (Giles)
ROCO / Melo / Jones Jr / (Little)
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#114 » by DaVoiceMaster » Sun Apr 4, 2021 6:57 pm

Say what you want about Hood being 6'8, but the guy was not playing well. If he played this season anywhere near the way he played against the Blazers last week, then perhaps he would still be on the roster. However, he didn't show anything. A lot of people like Trent Jr, myself included, but he' was not shooting all that well for weeks prior to the trade. Powell is a more polished player at this point who has shot really well for Toronto. The trade made sense for the Blazers. Trent Jr is young and still learning, but the Blazers are in win now mode. Hood was getting playing time (ahead of Simons) because the Blazers were showcasing him. Powell plays better defense than either Trent Jr or Hood and is a more polished offensive player. I think Stotts inserted him into the starting lineup to add more offense to the starting group. Jones Jr. does not provide much offense. Powell also plays good defense so you're not losing anything by moving Jones Jr. to the bench. Powell adds that third ball handler come playoff time. Defenses will focus on Lillard, then McCollum. That allows Powell to create and get to the basket and pass around, which is what the Blazers could have used against the Pelicans a few years back. Powell is exactly the type of player they needed. Now, if they could only find a 3 & D PF, they'd have everything they need.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#115 » by Norm2953 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 7:22 pm

I can appreciate the better short term fit but it does look like Powell is going to be one of the most
available UFA in this coming market but he plays at a position that won't help this team get past those
big front courts we'll almost certainly see, when we are in round 1 of the playoffs.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#116 » by HoopsFanAZ » Sun Apr 4, 2021 7:50 pm

GEE wrote: ...
An up-tempo, unselfish style of play with more passing and cutting we have all seen glimpses of. We know it's possible and find it pretty when we do rarely see it, but now we seem to have doubled down on small. Trading away 6'6 & 6'8 for 6'3 didn't help much, but it did remove some serious distractions and thinned the heard for playing time. ...


I’m going by their draft measurements as GTJ is pretty young and Powell didn’t get smaller ...

GTJ 6’4.25 no shoes / 6’8.75 wingspan / 8’2 standing reach
Powell 6’3 / 6’10.75 / 8’6.5 sr

Both are better at SG, but I’d rather see Powell over Trent at SF for minutes — starting and otherwise. Powell plays bigger.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#117 » by DaVoiceMaster » Sun Apr 4, 2021 9:28 pm

HoopsFanAZ wrote:
GEE wrote: ...
An up-tempo, unselfish style of play with more passing and cutting we have all seen glimpses of. We know it's possible and find it pretty when we do rarely see it, but now we seem to have doubled down on small. Trading away 6'6 & 6'8 for 6'3 didn't help much, but it did remove some serious distractions and thinned the heard for playing time. ...


I’m going by their draft measurements as GTJ is pretty young and Powell didn’t get smaller ...

GTJ 6’4.25 no shoes / 6’8.75 wingspan / 8’2 standing reach
Powell 6’3 / 6’10.75 / 8’6.5 sr

Both are better at SG, but I’d rather see Powell over Trent at SF for minutes — starting and otherwise. Powell plays bigger.


Agreed!!! I never bought the 6'6 argument about Trent Jr. either. I'd prefer not to start Powell at SF, but then I'm not the coach.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#118 » by dunlop212 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 11:11 pm

Powell is arguably the second best player on the team. If they let him walk over tax considerations, they might as well trade Lillard and start over.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#119 » by d-train » Mon Apr 5, 2021 8:17 pm

dunlop212 wrote:Powell is arguably the second best player on the team. If they let him walk over tax considerations, they might as well trade Lillard and start over.

I'll be happy if he remains the 5th best player on the team, signs a $25M/year contract, and Jody has to pay a gazillion dollars in luxury taxes. I don't care how much Jody pays to other NBA owners. And, I don't care how much other NBA owners pay to her. Actually, I do care.
Luxury taxes should be paid to the players. Alll NBA owners can go to hell. I would prefer players get the money, they are the ones that earn it.
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Re: Norman Powell to Blazers for GTJ 

Post#120 » by monopoman » Mon Apr 5, 2021 8:34 pm

It seems that people keep looking at Norman Powell's height when his wing span matters a hell of a lot more than height. Yes he is 6'4" and GT Jr. is 6'6" but his wing span is far superior to GT Jr. and that matters more than height 9 times out of 10.

Norman Powell: 6'11" wing span
Gary Trent Jr.: 6'8" wing span

If we are talking blocking shots and deflecting passes, I would take the player with more reach than just a player that is 2 inches taller. Powell has a wing span that is far longer than most other 6'4" players.

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