Tempo

Norm2953 · Post #1 » by **Norm2953** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:53 am

In my mind in watching the Suns just blitz Denver in games 1-2; Portland despite playing small, never
tried to speed up the game for they seemed content to walk the ball up court and play their usual
half court game. Monte (with CP3) has the Suns playing so much faster than the guard depleted
Nuggets and I wonder when the new coach watches the tapes, will be shaking his head how slow
Portland played under Stotts.

If this the case, is Mike D'Antoni the best guy for the job since he'll see with Dame/CJ, Portland is
never going to be an upper echelon defensive squad.

Case2012 · Post #2 » by **Case2012** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:59 am

They won't be an upper echelon defensive squad as long as Neil is here, so yeah, I would look at Pringles. A 7 seconds or less pace would be interesting. It would be pretty funny/ sad if he went with a coach like that after his grandstanding about a defensive coach, but I also wouldn't be surprised.

Norm2953 · Post #3 » by **Norm2953** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:02 am

Its a matter of understanding tempo for getting the ball up-court and getting 2-1 or 3-2 scoring
opportunities is preferable to Dame shooting from 35 feet. Smaller teams need to make the
bigger, slower teams run with them for just look how tired MPJ was tonight from Phoenix'
tempo. I think this is where Portland went wrong for they played just six guys who had to
pace themselves when it was the Nuggets who were short handed without three of their guards.

If this is the case, getting a second natural PG should be a priority followed by a healthy big
player for those times in the season when Nurk/Zach are injured.

Epicurus · Post #4 » by **Epicurus** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:04 am

Norm2953 wrote:In my mind in watching the Suns just blitz Denver in games 1-2; Portland despite playing small, never
tried to speed up the game for they seemed content to walk the ball up court and play their usual
half court game. Monte (with CP3) has the Suns playing so much faster than the guard depleted
Nuggets and I wonder when the new coach watches the tapes, will be shaking his head how slow
Portland played under Stotts.

If this the case, is Mike D'Antoni the best guy for the job since he'll see with Dame/CJ, Portland is
never going to be an upper echelon defensive squad.

The Blazers' offensive rating for the series was 122.7. That is about 5 pts per hundred possessions better than their season number 2 offense! Offense was not remotely the problem. Tonight the Suns' offensive rating was 123.0.

d-train · Post #5 » by **d-train** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:21 am

Suns could be a tough matchup for Nuggets because they are so good in transition and Nuggets high post offense inverts their floor. Joker is on the perimeter and their quicker players are near the basket. Leaving them vulnerable in transition.

I think Nuggets are going to figure it out. Too bad Nuggets didn't have a better trade package at the trade deadline. They would be a better team with Powell rather than Gordon.

monopoman · Post #6 » by **monopoman** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:32 am

I mean making Joker expend more energy is how you really abuse him more later in the game. It takes a lot of work to move a body as big as he is, and constantly pushing tempo can make that much tougher on him.

Epicurus · Post #7 » by **Epicurus** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:44 pm

monopoman wrote:I mean making Joker expend more energy is how you really abuse him more later in the game. It takes a lot of work to move a body as big as he is, and constantly pushing tempo can make that much tougher on him.

We are actually talking about the difference between the pace of a 94 possession game and a 98 one, 4 more possessions. Jurkic at most would be on the floor for three of those extra possessios. Somehow I think that adding three more times up and down the court would not produce the appreciable fatigue you suggest.

d-train · Post #8 » by **d-train** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:56 pm

monopoman wrote:I mean making Joker expend more energy is how you really abuse him more later in the game. It takes a lot of work to move a body as big as he is, and constantly pushing tempo can make that much tougher on him.

I used to believe you can run Joker off the court. You can usually run big men off the court. But, you can't run Joker off the court any better than you can run AD or Giannis off the court. Of course, it can still be part of a larger strategy.

You are probably right about going at him and making him play defense. This is what Olshey said in his presser. I think it's easier said then done, but Blazers with Nurkic, are capable of going at Joker. We had a lot of success running pick-n-rolls at Joker and their little guards, but we could have done more of it.

monopoman · Post #9 » by **monopoman** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:02 am

Epicurus wrote:
monopoman wrote:I mean making Joker expend more energy is how you really abuse him more later in the game. It takes a lot of work to move a body as big as he is, and constantly pushing tempo can make that much tougher on him.
We are actually talking about the difference between the pace of a 94 possession game and a 98 one, 4 more possessions. Jurkic at most would be on the floor for three of those extra possessios. Somehow I think that adding three more times up and down the court would not produce the appreciable fatigue you suggest.

I mean it's also about moving up and down the court quicker, even if it only translates into a few more possessions forcing him to get back on D quicker over and over can add up.

Epicurus · Post #10 » by **Epicurus** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:15 am

It moves quicker to the tune of gaining four more possessions--maybe what, two counts per possession?

Epicurus · Post #11 » by **Epicurus** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:21 am

d-train wrote:
monopoman wrote:I mean making Joker expend more energy is how you really abuse him more later in the game. It takes a lot of work to move a body as big as he is, and constantly pushing tempo can make that much tougher on him.

I used to believe you can run Joker off the court. You can usually run big men off the court. But, you can't run Joker off the court any better than you can run AD or Giannis off the court. Of course, it can still be part of a larger strategy.

You are probably right about going at him and making him play defense. This is what Olshey said in his presser. I think it's easier said then done, but Blazers with Nurkic, are capable of going at Joker. We had a lot of success running pick-n-rolls at Joker and their little guards, but we could have done more of it.

1. Nurk could not stay on the court enough.
2. He was a turnover machine (albeit not as bad as Kanter this series)
3. This was a close series, less and not more turnovers would have better.

d-train · Post #12 » by **d-train** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:50 am

Epicurus wrote:
d-train wrote:
monopoman wrote:I mean making Joker expend more energy is how you really abuse him more later in the game. It takes a lot of work to move a body as big as he is, and constantly pushing tempo can make that much tougher on him.

I used to believe you can run Joker off the court. You can usually run big men off the court. But, you can't run Joker off the court any better than you can run AD or Giannis off the court. Of course, it can still be part of a larger strategy.

You are probably right about going at him and making him play defense. This is what Olshey said in his presser. I think it's easier said then done, but Blazers with Nurkic, are capable of going at Joker. We had a lot of success running pick-n-rolls at Joker and their little guards, but we could have done more of it.

1. Nurk could not stay on the court enough.
2. He was a turnover machine (albeit not as bad as Kanter this series)
3. This was a close series, less and not more turnovers would have better.

I agree with you, but will say secondary playmakers always have higher turnover ratio. Nurkic seemed to be at his best in terms of being patient and not rushing his possessions, playmaking and shooting.

Blazers did not run any lowpost offense to Nurk. Granted, this wasn't a part of Blazers game plan in the regular season, but was in their bag of tricks 2 years ago before Nurk's injury. It might have worked if tried. Along with more pick-n-roll.

I have no complaints about Stotts. But, nobody is perfect. Everyone can look back with hindsight, and see somethings that were missed.

GEE · Post #13 » by **GEE** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:45 am

Very solid points made Norm, and I agree that playing small, AND slow is not a smart recipe. Watching our guards walk the ball up, then pound the air out the ball for ten more seconds, before either driving, shooting or passing was very hard to watch all year.

Mike D for lead (offense) assistant HC. Just double his current salary Jody!!!

Epicurus · Post #14 » by **Epicurus** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:31 am

GEE wrote:Very solid points made Norm, and I agree that playing small, AND slow is not a smart recipe. Watching our guards walk the ball up, then pound the air out the ball for ten more seconds, before either driving, shooting or passing was very hard to watch all year.

Mike D for lead (offense) assistant HC. Just double his current salary Jody!!!

The offense was NOT a problem, scoring more per possession in the series than its seasonal 2nd leading offense. Sorry, that the successful offensive playtype was not congruent with your preferences. Yet I prefer it works than worry about that congruence.

Sinobas · Post #15 » by **Sinobas** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:33 pm

Offense was a problem when it counted though. Their numbers look good because they had a couple of great offensive games. But when the supporting cast around Lillard goes 1-19 in crunch time, that's a big problem. Then the scored, what 14 points in the 4th quarter of game 6? It's the consistency.

Epicurus · Post #16 » by **Epicurus** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:51 pm

Sinobas wrote:Offense was a problem when it counted though. Their numbers look good because they had a couple of great offensive games. But when the supporting cast around Lillard goes 1-19 in crunch time, that's a big problem. Then the scored, what 14 points in the 4th quarter of game 6? It's the consistency.

Yes, consistency mattes. As you note, variation from the average did exist. I suspect both ways, however. But I doubt if pace, the topic here, was the reason for the deviations you note.

Epicurus · Post #17 » by **Epicurus** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:56 pm

Playtype discussion would be greatly more productive with a reading or two of Nylon Calculus' articles on varying offensive playtypes and offensive effectiveness. Biggest take away: No particular offensive playtypes predict offensive effectiveness. I recognize my crankiness with the presumption that there is one Right way for an offense. NONSENSE!

d-train · Post #18 » by **d-train** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:38 pm

Olshey was right, a coach needs to coach the game plan he believes in. And, Lillard needs to play the game he believes in. The million dollar question is, how to get Dame Dolla to want to get his teammates involved?

Wizenheimer · Post #19 » by **Wizenheimer** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:22 pm

NBA rankings for Pace:

1 Washington Wizards* 104.1
5 Minnesota Timberwolves 101.6
6 Houston Rockets 101.4
7 Oklahoma City Thunder 101.0
9 New Orleans Pelicans 100.1
10 Sacramento Kings 100.0
14 Chicago Bulls 99.0
19 Portland Trail Blazers* 98.4
24 Dallas Mavericks* 97.3
26 Phoenix Suns* 97.2
27 Denver Nuggets* 97.1
28 Los Angeles Clippers* 96.9

sure doesn't look like pace was much of a factor for success

Norm2953 · Post #20 » by **Norm2953** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:09 pm

I wonder if Portland's problems with pace would be alleviated with a PG, making Dame the sniper in
the backcourt he seems meant to be.

Looking at the impact Cp3 has meant to the Suns, a quality PG who can push the ball up in transition
if Portland has to play small seems to be a must for like Gee, I got tired of watching the slow motion
Portland offense which only works because Dame is Dame. Transition opportunities might make DJJ
a much more valuable player than he was in 2021.

Portland really played a series in Denver's hands, playing small with only six players (for the most part)
which forced those six players to have to pace themselves. Smaller teams need to play fast and more
players for they are not equipped to matchup in a half court game which means the DJJ, Kanter's and
Nazr Little's of the world need to see the court for enough minutes to help the starters win the game.
The other playoff teams got lots of production from their 8th-9th guys in the playing rotation.