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Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons

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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#41 » by BNM » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:10 pm

DusterBuster wrote:
BNM wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:I'm pretty sure...

right now, I don't think...

as far as the price he was supposedly asking...

I have a hunch...

I've always suspected...


Wow, that was a whole lot of assumptions and unfounded speculation. Maybe next time you could save us all a bunch of time and just say:

I'm pretty sure Olshey sucks.

Right now, I don't think Olshey doesn't suck.

as far as the price he was supposedly asking (and right here can we agree Olshey sucks).

I have a hunch Olshey sucks.

I've always suspected Olshey sucks.


Yeah, I've always had plenty of questions / criticism about Olshey... the guy has made some major bungles and think he really pooped the bed this summer pretty spectacularly with what he came out of the offseason with... BUT I've never been a fan of the way the intense anti-Olshey crew here likes to connect the dots with personal speculation that really doesn't have much provable factual basis outside of "this is what I think is most likely and it fits my narrative". Granted, we all do this to a certain extent, so it's not to just blast people for doing that in general, but the auto-fill of "well the worst case / most nefarious scenario must be true because I don't like Olshey" gets old and seems lazy.

And again, I'm saying this as someone who would be plenty happy to see Olshey fired and a new voice running the team.


Agreed. I'm all for firing Olshey, but my criteria do not require any invented narratives or speculation. My opinion is 100% based on his job performance/results. He has had multiple off seasons to significantly improve this team, and the reasons he hasn't are self-imposed (lack of cap space, lack of tradeable assets, some poor draft choices, etc.). He has been the one in charge of this roster for nine years. The team has been competitive and regularly made the playoffs, but in general has been treading water for several seasons. That's on him.

I do think the team will be better this season - mostly due to health and better defense overall, especially from the bench, but I don't see any changes that make the Blazers legitimate contenders. I see their upside as making the 2nd round - better than last year, but last year was a bit of a disaster, especially in the playoffs. So, "better than last year" isn't saying much.

I've been saying all summer, since the Norm re-signing, that if CJ is on the roster on opening night, Neil should be fired. The roster needs more balance and he has failed to achieve that.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#42 » by Goldbum » Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:59 pm

It's probably nothing but all those guys sitting makes me hope that a trade is coming.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#43 » by DusterBuster » Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:09 am

Goldbum wrote:It's probably nothing but all those guys sitting makes me hope that a trade is coming.


I wouldn't get your hopes up that high. It's preseason. Sitting half the roster/vetd for a meaningless game is commonplace.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#44 » by JasonStern » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:03 pm

Honestly I don't get why the 76ers would want likely late picks so badly. Just like with Dame, their window to win with Embiid doesn't line up with developing 2023-2025 1st round talents. They really should take the rumored Indiana package.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#45 » by the_process » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:54 pm

JasonStern wrote:Honestly I don't get why the 76ers would want likely late picks so badly. Just like with Dame, their window to win with Embiid doesn't line up with developing 2023-2025 1st round talents. They really should take the rumored Indiana package.


Except the Indiana package is pretty bad.
It is highly unlikely that the Sixers will agree with your Ben Simmons evaluation for the purposes of a trade.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#46 » by DusterBuster » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:23 pm

the_process wrote:
JasonStern wrote:Honestly I don't get why the 76ers would want likely late picks so badly. Just like with Dame, their window to win with Embiid doesn't line up with developing 2023-2025 1st round talents. They really should take the rumored Indiana package.


Except the Indiana package is pretty bad.


Except Ben Simmons trade value is pretty bad.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#47 » by the_process » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:47 pm

DusterBuster wrote:
the_process wrote:
JasonStern wrote:Honestly I don't get why the 76ers would want likely late picks so badly. Just like with Dame, their window to win with Embiid doesn't line up with developing 2023-2025 1st round talents. They really should take the rumored Indiana package.


Except the Indiana package is pretty bad.


Except Ben Simmons trade value is pretty bad.


We disagree on that. His value being way down from its peak does not equal pretty bad.
It is highly unlikely that the Sixers will agree with your Ben Simmons evaluation for the purposes of a trade.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#48 » by DusterBuster » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:43 pm

the_process wrote:
DusterBuster wrote:
the_process wrote:
Except the Indiana package is pretty bad.


Except Ben Simmons trade value is pretty bad.


We disagree on that. His value being way down from its peak does not equal pretty bad.


I'm being a bit facetious about it being "pretty bad", but there's no question it's nowhere near where what it could be if he didn't spend the summer acting up like he has and there's no guarantee him coming back really changes that. We don't know if he's coming back to work hard and rehab his image, or just to pull a "Kevin Love" and get his money.

And even still, if Simmons was at his peak of value, the return Morey is asking for from all teams is - to be generous - overpriced.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#49 » by Wizenheimer » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:30 pm

BNM wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:I'm pretty sure...

right now, I don't think...

as far as the price he was supposedly asking...

I have a hunch...

I've always suspected...


Wow, that was a whole lot of assumptions and unfounded speculation. Maybe next time you could save us all a bunch of time and just say:

I'm pretty sure Olshey sucks.

Right now, I don't think Olshey doesn't suck.

as far as the price he was supposedly asking (and right here can we agree Olshey sucks).

I have a hunch Olshey sucks.

I've always suspected Olshey sucks.


yeah...I could act like I have confidence in everything I think is true....like most do around here. Or, without having recordings of conversations between GM's I could just never speculate on what it is I don't know for sure...like nobody does around here

but to say that Olshey has a strong attachment to CJ and that he overrates CJ's value is not uninformed conjecture.

to say he has overvalued other players to ridiculous levels is not uninformed conjecture either. I mean, if Olshey had his way, the Blazers would have paid max contracts to Roy Hibbert, Enes Kanter, Greg Monroe, Chandler Parsons, and Hassan Whiteside. That right there are 5 big reasons to consider Olshey a damn idiot

as if the 2016 spending spree wasn't enough. Or the 2017 draft

again, I believe the Blazers would be a better team if they could trade CJ for Simmons. I wouldn't include RoCo and I'd be really cautious about giving away any draft picks without protection past Dame's option year in 2024

as for those beginning's of my sentences you cherry-picked without context....is there anything following those words you disagree with?
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#50 » by the_process » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:36 pm

DusterBuster wrote:
the_process wrote:
DusterBuster wrote:
Except Ben Simmons trade value is pretty bad.


We disagree on that. His value being way down from its peak does not equal pretty bad.


I'm being a bit facetious about it being "pretty bad", but there's no question it's nowhere near where what it could be if he didn't spend the summer acting up like he has and there's no guarantee him coming back really changes that. We don't know if he's coming back to work hard and rehab his image, or just to pull a "Kevin Love" and get his money.

And even still, if Simmons was at his peak of value, the return Morey is asking for from all teams is - to be generous - overpriced.


This is false. Simmons at his peak value is a top 20 player. That's worth more than CJ, 3 1sts, and 3 swaps.

But we do agree Simmons is not near that point.
It is highly unlikely that the Sixers will agree with your Ben Simmons evaluation for the purposes of a trade.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#51 » by DusterBuster » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:31 pm

the_process wrote:
DusterBuster wrote:
the_process wrote:
We disagree on that. His value being way down from its peak does not equal pretty bad.


I'm being a bit facetious about it being "pretty bad", but there's no question it's nowhere near where what it could be if he didn't spend the summer acting up like he has and there's no guarantee him coming back really changes that. We don't know if he's coming back to work hard and rehab his image, or just to pull a "Kevin Love" and get his money.

And even still, if Simmons was at his peak of value, the return Morey is asking for from all teams is - to be generous - overpriced.


This is false. Simmons at his peak value is a top 20 player. That's worth more than CJ, 3 1sts, and 3 swaps.

But we do agree Simmons is not near that point.


Image

With all things being even (so everyone healthy and at their peak)...

Steph
Bron
Giannis
KD
Harden
Dame
Luka
Jokic
Leonard
Davis
Embiid
Butler
Thompson
Booker
Young
Beal
Mitchell
Gobert
Irving
George

All considerably better and more well-rounded impactful players than Simmons has been. He's solidly in that 2nd tier of guys like Tatum and Brown imo. Not top 20, but top 30... maybe?

Point being, you've clearly been standing too close to Morey's office and are getting a contact high.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#52 » by the_process » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:55 pm

DusterBuster wrote:
the_process wrote:
DusterBuster wrote:
I'm being a bit facetious about it being "pretty bad", but there's no question it's nowhere near where what it could be if he didn't spend the summer acting up like he has and there's no guarantee him coming back really changes that. We don't know if he's coming back to work hard and rehab his image, or just to pull a "Kevin Love" and get his money.

And even still, if Simmons was at his peak of value, the return Morey is asking for from all teams is - to be generous - overpriced.


This is false. Simmons at his peak value is a top 20 player. That's worth more than CJ, 3 1sts, and 3 swaps.

But we do agree Simmons is not near that point.


Image

With all things being even (so everyone healthy and at their peak)...

Steph
Bron
Giannis
KD
Harden
Dame
Luka
Jokic
Leonard
Davis
Embiid
Butler
Thompson
Booker
Young
Beal
Mitchell
Gobert
Irving
George

All considerably better and more well-rounded impactful players than Simmons has been. He's solidly in that 2nd tier of guys like Tatum and Brown imo. Not top 20, but top 30... maybe?

Point being, you've clearly been standing too close to Morey's office and are getting a contact high.


You got some bad names on that list. Again, I am not claiming Simmons is a top 20 guy right now. He is not close, and he may never get back up in that range again. But some of those names are bad.
It is highly unlikely that the Sixers will agree with your Ben Simmons evaluation for the purposes of a trade.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#53 » by BlazersBroncos » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:27 pm

I am very interested in which names on that list are 'bad'.

Only one I can think of is Thompson and that is mostly injury based.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#54 » by DusterBuster » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:31 pm

the_process wrote:You got some bad names on that list. Again, I am not claiming Simmons is a top 20 guy right now. He is not close, and he may never get back up in that range again. But some of those names are bad.


Image

When all healthy, those guys are all more well rounded players and have bigger impacts on their respective teams than Simmons has ever had (and probably ever will have) for Philly.

Anyway, not bothering much more with this convo
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#55 » by Wizenheimer » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:20 pm

in a very real way, Simmons is in the top-5....he's in the top-5 of most toxic situations in the NBA in years
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#56 » by HoopsFanAZ » Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:10 am

IMHO, it’s not exactly close on Simmons > McCollum both as players AND being on the Blazers. The relevant calculation comes down to how much better the Blazers would be … and then how much that would be worth in trade EVEN as an overpay to become a contender.

Would this ONE move of CJ and picks for Simmons make the Blazers a contender? If not, why do it and commit years of future assets?
If it’s not done, but can be, how much does not making the move affect Lillard staying?

It’s not that I’m a huge fan of Simmons. For me, it’s about the “math” and the Blazers being a contender. Right now, IMHO, they’re not.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#57 » by GEE » Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:20 pm

Having watched the BLAZERS preseason games, I'm fairly convinced Portland has no chance of playoff success. Dame must also know this, so I will go with my conspiracy theory that Olshey and Morey are secretly working together, to orchestrate what we are seeing now from both clubs, which will ultimately result in some form of a Dame for Simmons trade.

I will also remain the black sheep, and take the very unpopular opinion that this team will be better if it gets done. I say this because I LOVE my BLAZERS more than any one player, even Dame. Also a huge fan of team basketball like the Warriors and Spurs, and cringe watching "Hero-Ball", like anything Harden or Lebron.

Can we please just ask Dame... Are you really all-the-way in, or would you rather go play for a championship alongside Joel in Philly? Be PROACTIVE, not REACTIVE! We have ZERO chance TODAY with this current roster, and with this move, I feel it shakes things up enough to give us an entirely different look going forward, therefore... at least getting off the 8 year treadmill and giving us a chance at some change in results come playoff time. If it doesn't work, you can continue with rebuilding.

Dame to Philly for Simmons / 3 FRPs / 3 Swaps ...................... DEAL!
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#58 » by Goldbum » Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:37 pm

I think the gap between Dame and Ben is WAY larger than the gap between Ben and CJ.
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#59 » by Tomjas » Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:08 pm

Sixers fan here

IF the Blazers are willing to move on from Dame (& I can’t see it without a disastrous season) then surely it’s for a rebuild or, at the very least, a roster overhaul

At 25, Simmons +++ is a good start as long as the +++ fits the agenda

You then use Simmons to pump up the value of CJ, who will potentially have a career year next to Ben if our shooters are anything to go by

Same with RoCo as he doesn’t fit the timeline either

IF the Blazers entered next season with Simmons, say Myles Turner & Thybulle plus a boatload of assets then they would be well set for the future

But like I said, I find it hard to believe that Dame will be moved unless a seismic shift occurs in Portland
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Re: Shams: Morey wants CJ + 3 FRP + 3 Pick Swaps for Simmons 

Post#60 » by HoopsFanAZ » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:19 am

I WANT to say that the Blazers would be better without trading Lillard for Simmons + picks + ? BOTH in the short term and the long term. AND I think that's true. The difference between Lillard > Simmons > CJ in isolation? In context of the rest of the team? It's an interesting discussion. On the surface, trading Lillard for Simmons -- given who is better and who is a problem for their team -- is enormous.

As to Lillard being "all the way in" with the Blazers ... I'd guess that would be whether CJ gets traded and the team has the better shot at being a contender. I want a contender. The future with Lillard as a non-contender is not a reasonable option. The future without him and not a contender is not a reasonable option.

I'm not a Simmons fan, like I wasn't a Carmelo Anthony fan. If Portland becomes a contender, I can appreciate the positive a player brings ... or most players. Westbrook? Absolutely not. He is what he is ... for some other team. Kyrie Irving? Portland is weird, but that would be ridiculous.

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