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Dame is already in his 30s and will be massively overpaid in a few years. He is only going downhill from now until he reaches 35. If I am wrong, he may have 1, 1.5 more superstar seasons. However, everyone knows you need to trade when their value is at their highest.

If we trade Dame, it will be for youth which means guys like CJ/Roco/Nurk and even Powell are tradable.

i propose we trade every single starter and replace with the following:

PG: Simons
SG: Little
SF: Ingram
PF: Siakam
C: Turner

Most starters in their young or mid 20s.

Bench: Thybulle, Fournier, Burks, Satoransky, Zeller, Mclemore, fillers (our bench will most likely be better than this using the assets from Dame trade)

How we get there:

-Dame to Philly in a three way bringing Siakam and Thybulle and 2 future 1st to PDX, Ben Simmons and Korkmaz to Raptors
-Powell and D.Smith to Pacers for Myles Turner (has to be done on Jan 15, 2022 due to Powell's extension). Indy may be willing if they find a partner for Levert.
-CJ, future first rounder and Nance to NOR for Ingram and Satoransky (probably will be toughest to do)
Roco and Nurk to NYK for Fournier, Burks and a protected 1st round pick. Gives NYK more cap space in 2022 (couldnt think of anything better)


What are your guys' "blow it up" trade ideas?

I dont think TOR is looking to make a move for Ben Simmons.
I dont think IND moves Turner for a SG when Duarte has been so good.
I dont think CJ and filler gets Ingram.

If we do it, I think this could work (Especially if Brown is out for a while, helping the tank):

1)

Portland Trades
Damian Lillard
Jusuf Nurkic

Boston Trades
Jaylen Brown
Al Horford
Grant Williams
2 FRP

2)

Portland Trades
CJ McCollum

Cleveland Trades
Kevin Love
1 FRP
WAS 2022 SRP

3)

Portland Trades
Robert Covington

New Orleans Trades
Tomas Satoransky
2 Future SRP

Keep Norm + Nance around for a bit, you cant trade the whole team. Al and Love are overpaid but expire summer 2023 (Along w/ Nance) giving us a full reset by that time salary wise (More or less). Brown is the new franchise guy, Grant might become a early RoCo level defender (Playing great this year), Simons and Little get tons of chances, Nance and Norm as the continuity vets.

I think these valuations will be scoffed at, but its what I believe the league sees them as worth.

G - Anfernee Simons / Dennis Smith Jr
G - Norman Powell / Tomas Satoransky
F - Jaylen Brown / Nassir Little
F - Larry Nance Jr / Grant Williams
C - Al Horford / Kevin Love

+ 3 Future FRP, 3 Future SRP

I'll stand with what I've been saying for a while now. I don't feel a full "Blow-Up" is necessary for many reasons, and for the fact we currently have limited GM function right now, so I would take a two step approach to fixing Olshey's STUPIDITY. Please, JODY ... get Mr. Forgot his Name Interim GM to do this on DEC 15th, then reward him for his good work, while still mailing off that Christmas card to Perry in NYC:

Dame to Philly for Simmons/Drummond plus as many additional assets as you can please. Leaves us with this, plus at least a couple FRPs(I would think), 3 and I'd be thrilled. Best thing about this is, we all know it's easily doable on the 15th. If it succeeds, and I believe it could get us a 4th seed, keep it. Then, make more changes as needed at the Trade Deadline, Draft, Etc.

CJ / ANT
Powell / MAC
ROCO / Little
Simmons / Nance
Nukic / Drummond

I think this is a team I would really like for several years to come... I love me some Drummond!!!

GEE wrote:I'll stand with what I've been saying for a while now. I don't feel a full "Blow-Up" is necessary for many reasons, and for the fact we currently have limited GM function right now, so I would take a two step approach to fixing Olshey's STUPIDITY. Please, JODY ... get Mr. Forgot his Name Interim GM to do this on DEC 15th, then reward him for his good work, while still mailing off that Christmas card to Perry in NYC:

Dame to Philly for Simmons/Drummond plus as many additional assets as you can please. Leaves us with this, plus at least a couple FRPs(I would think), 3 and I'd be thrilled. Best thing about this is, we all know it's easily doable on the 15th. If it succeeds, and I believe it could get us a 4th seed, keep it. Then, make more changes as needed at the Trade Deadline, Draft, Etc.

CJ / ANT
Powell / MAC
ROCO / Little
Simmons / Nance
Nukic / Drummond

I think this is a team that I would really like for several years to come and should

Man, I think that return is way too low. From all accounts PHI is salivating for Dame. Give me Simmons, Maxey, 3 FRP. Why do we want Drummond?

End of the day I think Ben only becomes a passionate player if he is on a team with a Dame level leader so making this move with intent to compete wouldn’t be my decision. Making it to tank doesn’t work either, since Ben tanking in a small market will bring out the worst in him IMO.

You add Ben to a team with a guy like Dame, Draymond, LBJ, etc or you don’t add him at all. Just too much risk.

Give me RJ+Toppin+4 FRP or a Brown and picks deal.

Dame's a second fiddle... He's no Lebron for Christ sake. He would need to be paired with a player that is better than, or at least as good he is, if he wants to win a ring. Philly fits that bill, and I think all parties, including Dame, could walk away winners.

And I can't really explain the effect Drummond would have on this team, and this city, but just know he'd fit right into our culture like a glove, and the fans would absolutely love him. He also fills a huge need now, and could be a viable option long-term with Nurk, if we could sign him (in the off-season after he falls in love with our fans) to a fair but cheap deal.

And as for any NYK trade, keep dreamin' cause Dame's lack of defense wouldn't last a season under Thibs. A three-way might be possible if NYK want Simmons and the Blazers preferred your package, but I don't think the Knicks are forking that up for Simmons.

I think the trade will be Simmons and Maxey +picks for Dame which will lead to Portland spinning off
Simmons to a third team. Let's see what the market for Simmons will be at the trade deadline

you guys have strange notions of what a blow-it-up trade is

I see 3 hypothetical teams you guys have created that are no better than what Portland currently has, slightly better upside, maybe, and simply recreates a different version of the spirit-killing purgatory Portland has been in. Those are not blow-it-up trades. They are let's-try-and-remain-relevant trades...even though Portland isn't really relevant

if you want to blow it up you trade Dame for as many draft picks, young players (as in under 24) and expiring contracts as you can. You do the same with CJ, RoCo, Nurkic, Powell, and Nance. get those picks and expiring contracts. Then the team sucks, because the best option in blowing it up is to be a bad team that lands 2 or 3 or 4 high draft picks

and then, if Portland is really really lucky, they might be able to draft a player that will reach Dame's level in a few years

Let's say you trade Dame to Philly for Simmons, Maxey and picks. You then spin Simmons off to Toronto for
Siakum. You then proceed to move CJ, Roco and Nurk for more picks.

Portland would then have Powell, Maxey and Simons in their back court and would have Siakum, LNJ and
Little up front plus whatever you received from moving in the secondary trades.

Team of course would stink but that's better than paying Dame two additional years for $107 Million for a
team that can't get out of the first round of the playoffs.

Just for the record I am totally and completely opposed to any Dame trade that brings Simmons to Portland. Too good and expensive to rebuild with, and too much of a chance he would dog it or push for a trade if he came here and at the end of the day his next contract will be with LA.

Wizenheimer wrote:if you want to blow it up you trade Dame for as many draft picks, young players (as in under 24) and expiring contracts as you can. You do the same with CJ, RoCo, Nurkic, Powell, and Nance. get those picks and expiring contracts. Then the team sucks, because the best option in blowing it up is to be a bad team that lands 2 or 3 or 4 high draft picks

and then, if Portland is really really lucky, they might be able to draft a player that will reach Dame's level in a few years

One thought is that you actually don't have to tear it down all at once. I think Lillard is obviously the first domino that has to fall, Roco and Nurkic would be moved for contract reasons, but if there aren't awesome offers right now for Powell/Nance/CJ we might be able to have them rack up some good stats on a bad team and sell them for higher down the line. That might keep us out of the literal NBA basement but with the change to lottery odds its not terrible, and even so you can find Dame talent with the #6 pick for example, although obviously top 4 is better

We trade Dame for Ben Simmons and I’m done with this franchise. And I’ve seen a lot of **** over the years.

Wizenheimer wrote:you guys have strange notions of what a blow-it-up trade is

I see 3 hypothetical teams you guys have created that are no better than what Portland currently has, slightly better upside, maybe, and simply recreates a different version of the spirit-killing purgatory Portland has been in. Those are not blow-it-up trades. They are let's-try-and-remain-relevant trades...even though Portland isn't really relevant

if you want to blow it up you trade Dame for as many draft picks, young players (as in under 24) and expiring contracts as you can. You do the same with CJ, RoCo, Nurkic, Powell, and Nance. get those picks and expiring contracts. Then the team sucks, because the best option in blowing it up is to be a bad team that lands 2 or 3 or 4 high draft picks

and then, if Portland is really really lucky, they might be able to draft a player that will reach Dame's level in a few years

I agree with this, but I also think the Vulcan side will want to keep money coming in which makes me unfortunately think they would be willing to re-treadmill.

If we go full OKC / Hinkie-PHI I can see OKC being a quality trade partner, something like:

Philadelphia Trades
Ben Simmons to OKC
Tyrese Maxey to PDX
2022 Unprotected FRP to PDX
2024 Top-10 Protected FRP to PDX

Philadelphia Receives
Damian Lillard from PDX

Portland Trades
Damian Lillard to PHI

Portland Receives
Tyrese Maxey from PHI
Derrick Favors from OKC
Aleksej Pokusevski from OKC
Darius Bazley from OKC
2022 Unprotected FRP from PHI
2024 Top-10 Protected FRP from PHI
3-4 FRP from OKC

Oklahoma City Trades
Derrick Favors to PDX
Aleksej Pokusevski to PDX
Darius Bazley to PDX
TPE to PDX
3-4 Future FRP to PDX

Oklahoma City Receives
Ben Simmons from PHI

PDX would send out some vet min guys for roster reasons. Basically, get Maxey as a potential 20ppg guy, take a flyer on Poku and Bazley and secure 5-6 FRPs. Bottom out.

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:

Wizenheimer wrote:if you want to blow it up you trade Dame for as many draft picks, young players (as in under 24) and expiring contracts as you can. You do the same with CJ, RoCo, Nurkic, Powell, and Nance. get those picks and expiring contracts. Then the team sucks, because the best option in blowing it up is to be a bad team that lands 2 or 3 or 4 high draft picks

and then, if Portland is really really lucky, they might be able to draft a player that will reach Dame's level in a few years

One thought is that you actually don't have to tear it down all at once. I think Lillard is obviously the first domino that has to fall, Roco and Nurkic would be moved for contract reasons, but if there aren't awesome offers right now for Powell/Nance/CJ we might be able to have them rack up some good stats on a bad team and sell them for higher down the line. That might keep us out of the literal NBA basement but with the change to lottery odds its not terrible, and even so you can find Dame talent with the #6 pick for example, although obviously top 4 is better

well, I've been clear I think Dame is the last domino not the first domino because I think Portland owes it to Dame, and the fans, at least one good shot at building the team around Dame that has actual balance, fit, and synergy

but if they do blow-it-up, they need to do it fast, have a fire sale. Don't piece-meal the process that adds a few more wins while losing traction in the lottery. Blazers need to maximize their top-of-the-lottery chances; not dork around for a year or two before they get there. Portland spent 9 years straddling every fence in sight under Olshey; that's a habit they need to kick before starting a rebuild. In fact, it's critical they kick it now

besides all that, CJ is 30, RoCo is 31, Nance is 29, Powell is 28, Nurkic is 27. Combined, they have 35 years and 2000 games of experience. The NBA knows exactly what kind of players they are and what value they have. That value won't increase if they are putting up good number on bad teams. All it will show is what the NBA already knows: that they are role-players who have little impact on winning

Wizenheimer wrote:

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:

Wizenheimer wrote:if you want to blow it up you trade Dame for as many draft picks, young players (as in under 24) and expiring contracts as you can. You do the same with CJ, RoCo, Nurkic, Powell, and Nance. get those picks and expiring contracts. Then the team sucks, because the best option in blowing it up is to be a bad team that lands 2 or 3 or 4 high draft picks

and then, if Portland is really really lucky, they might be able to draft a player that will reach Dame's level in a few years

One thought is that you actually don't have to tear it down all at once. I think Lillard is obviously the first domino that has to fall, Roco and Nurkic would be moved for contract reasons, but if there aren't awesome offers right now for Powell/Nance/CJ we might be able to have them rack up some good stats on a bad team and sell them for higher down the line. That might keep us out of the literal NBA basement but with the change to lottery odds its not terrible, and even so you can find Dame talent with the #6 pick for example, although obviously top 4 is better

well, I've been clear I think Dame is the last domino not the first domino because I think Portland owes it to Dame, and the fans, at least one good shot at building the team around Dame that has actual balance, fit, and synergy

but if they do blow-it-up, they need to do it fast, have a fire sale. Don't piece-meal the process that adds a few more wins while losing traction in the lottery. Blazers need to maximize their top-of-the-lottery chances; not dork around for a year or two before they get there. Portland spent 9 years straddling every fence in sight under Olshey; that's a habit they need to kick before starting a rebuild. In fact, it's critical they kick it now

besides all that, CJ is 30, RoCo is 31, Nance is 29, Powell is 28, Nurkic is 27. Combined, they have 35 years and 2000 games of experience. The NBA knows exactly what kind of players they are and what value they have. That value won't increase if they are putting up good number on bad teams. All it will show is what the NBA already knows: that they are role-players who have little impact on winning

Its a fair point, but I still think it might be hard to maximize value if we try to sell every player all at once, teams will give us fire-sale offers if we hold a fire sale. So, because it is no longer essential to be the worst team in the league, we have time to shop for maximize return on several players and there really isn't a pressure to do everything all at once.

If you think you can maximize value by doing it all at once then sure, but I think it would reduce our overall return to firesale rather than slowly tear down. You don't really need to bottom out to be one of the worst teams in the league, so keeping some assets around and available to shop as opportunities come up is not bad. Look at all the flipping that OKC did for example, they had periods where they held onto win-now players to maximize what they got in return for it. That is all I am suggesting as an option.

How many times have we seen teams send out every older player all at once if they are looking to rebuild?

I don't recall it happening much at all.

Closest might have been the OKC situation and even they took about 1.5 years to really move out all their older players, though of course Westbrook and PG were moved together. I also have a feeling if we send out just Lillard+Nurk or Lillard+CJ or something, this team would end up being at best a 20ish win team. So we might not get the best odds for a top pick with that, but we aren't under some ticking clock to remove the remaining players over age 26 immediately to lose enough games to get a nice pick.

RoCo and Nurkic have expiring contracts. If you keep them around past the trade deadline while starting a full rebuild, they are gone. period. They won't re-sign and Portland loses assets for nothing.....I think RoCo wouldn't re-sign anyway and I think the odds are pretty high against Nurkic re-signing

Powell can't be traded before the deadline. IIRC he won't be eligible for a trade till sometime in March. So, the earliest he could be traded is around the draft.

that leaves Dame, CJ, & Nance. I still say Portland trading should start with CJ. The priority should be CJ, RoCo, and Nurkic, in that order. Because that order can fit both a full tear down and rebuild, or a re-tool around Dame, depending on the trade targets. To start trading, either way, with Lillard is just stupid. You guys are adhering to the 'try-and-maximize-return' strategy. OK. But that strategy is out the window immediately if Dame is the first to go. The rest of the league would see fire sale and only offer the kind of fire sale prices you guys don't want to see

in fact, what probably should happen right now is that the Blazers should be shopping CJ, Nurk, & RoCo as hard as they can while encouraging Dame to go ahead and have the abdominal surgery. This season already looks like burnt toast. Maybe they can strike gold in the lottery while still attempting to build a good team around Dame starting next season

Wizenheimer wrote:RoCo and Nurkic have expiring contracts. If you keep them around past the trade deadline while starting a full rebuild, they are gone. period. They won't re-sign and Portland loses assets for nothing.....I think RoCo wouldn't re-sign anyway and I think the odds are pretty high against Nurkic re-signing

Powell can't be traded before the deadline. IIRC he won't be eligible for a trade till sometime in March. So, the earliest he could be traded is around the draft.

that leaves Dame, CJ, & Nance. I still say Portland trading should start with CJ. The priority should be CJ, RoCo, and Nurkic, in that order. Because that order can fit both a full tear down and rebuild, or a re-tool around Dame, depending on the trade targets. To start trading, either way, with Lillard is just stupid. You guys are adhering to the 'try-and-maximize-return' strategy. OK. But that strategy is out the window immediately if Dame is the first to go. The rest of the league would see fire sale and only offer the kind of fire sale prices you guys don't want to see

in fact, what probably should happen right now is that the Blazers should be shopping CJ, Nurk, & RoCo as hard as they can while encouraging Dame to go ahead and have the abdominal surgery. This season already looks like burnt toast. Maybe they can strike gold in the lottery while still attempting to build a good team around Dame starting next season

Oh we are discussing entirely different scenarios. I was discussing a complete rebuild without Lillard, the "blow it up" scenario IMO, not a retool around Lillard. I'm not too interested in a retool around Lillard, I just don't think there is enough time for that. We ship everyone off this year, get a lottery pick summer 2022, make some moves get the rookies and new acquisitions up to speed that year, then we might have a cohesive team that can make a good run again in the 2023-2024 season but how many years would that iteration of the team really have around Lillard? And I feel that is on the optimistic side of a realistic expectation too, as injuries or bad fit or a lack of development would derail that plan by another year.

To be clear, I'm not saying we dont do anything. We still should shop CJ in a lateral move for a better fit, even a Tobias Harris would be worth a shot at this point, and yeah that should be the first move we make because it will determine if we need to move someone like Roco or Nurkic for depth elsewhere. But with Lillard starting to decline what we have around him (Nance, Nurkic, Powell, Little, RoCo) will largely remain the core with maybe a substitution here or there but not any major wholesale changes, I just don't think we have the time to take a step back and wait for the wholesale changes to take effect because it always takes time for a new team to find the right chemistry and balance and its so easy for that process to get derailed and delayed.

I’m fully in the, hold Dame out as long as possible after the surgery and trade Nurkic and RoCo, camp. Treat it like an off year.

The only acceptable trade for Lillard would be a #1 pick and that’s never going to happen for various reasons.

EDIT: Olshey’s mismanagement cost this team at least 2 decades of basketball.

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:Oh we are discussing entirely different scenarios. I was discussing a complete rebuild without Lillard, the "blow it up" scenario IMO, not a retool around Lillard. I'm not too interested in a retool around Lillard, I just don't think there is enough time for that. We ship everyone off this year, get a lottery pick summer 2022, make some moves get the rookies and new acquisitions up to speed that year, then we might have a cohesive team that can make a good run again in the 2023-2024 season but how many years would that iteration of the team really have around Lillard? And I feel that is on the optimistic side of a realistic expectation too, as injuries or bad fit or a lack of development would derail that plan by another year.

To be clear, I'm not saying we dont do anything. We still should shop CJ in a lateral move for a better fit, even a Tobias Harris would be worth a shot at this point, and yeah that should be the first move we make because it will determine if we need to move someone like Roco or Nurkic for depth elsewhere. But with Lillard starting to decline what we have around him (Nance, Nurkic, Powell, Little, RoCo) will largely remain the core with maybe a substitution here or there but not any major wholesale changes, I just don't think we have the time to take a step back and wait for the wholesale changes to take effect because it always takes time for a new team to find the right chemistry and balance and its so easy for that process to get derailed and delayed.

I get that you are advocating for a rebuild

I said if Portland goes for a rebuild that includes trading Dame, they should just shop everybody immediately and have a fire sale. But you didn't agree because you didn't want Portland to get 'fire-sale' assets as the trade returns.

my point is simple: as soon as Portland starts shopping Dame, all they will see is fire sale prices...for everybody. There is no way to avoid that. Those potential trade returns are not going to increase over time either.

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:Just for the record I am totally and completely opposed to any Dame trade that brings Simmons to Portland. Too good and expensive to rebuild with, and too much of a chance he would dog it or push for a trade if he came here and at the end of the day his next contract will be with LA.

I'm actually not opposed to that idea of Dame for Simmons - if Simmons would be willing to play here. I kinda think the idea of a tear it down rebuild is a bit overrated. We've seen a ton of teams hoard picks with drafts for big stars and then do next to nothing with those picks. Boston is on the verge of breaking up the Brown and Tatum duo because the blew it on all the other picks they got in all their trades - their roster is kinda filled with mediocre picks outside of those two guys. OKC has yet to do anything with their picks they got for Paul George.

So like, I'm not opposed to the idea of trading for a younger blue-chip player like Simmons who we already know is a good player rather than gambling on the what-if's of draft picks. My biggest complaint has been and always will be Simmons' baggage. His camp made it clear he didn't want to come to Portland if Dame isn't there... so like, I don't really see why that would change now unless they're a bit more desperate to get moved now than they were when those comments were made over the summer and they thought they had more leverage. Still, I'm concerned his "mental health" schtick would come with him from Philly to Portland without Dame here.