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Nurk

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Nurk 

Post#1 » by LillardTime » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:35 am

Nurk is an UFA after this season. His last 10 games have been much better than anything else he’s done this season.

If we look to trade him by the deadline, who is in the market for a C and what type of return can we hope for given he’s a rental? If we don’t trade him, any chance he comes back and at what cost would you be happy to sign him?
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Re: Nurk 

Post#2 » by BlazersBroncos » Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:00 am

I don’t think his market is that big.

Charlotte might redo the trade w/ Plumlee and a FRP. But they already owe one, apparently love Kai and the pick probably would have wild protection (I think top-20).

Dallas maybe but they are playing better as they realize KP is a C. And owe FRP’s.

Toronto maybe but they don’t have much to offer. Likely the corpse of Dragic and a very protected FRP.

The league has a surplus of C’s, and especially if they don’t shoot the 3 they just seem to be reasonably affordable.

I don’t see Nurk as untouchable and despite his improved play as of late he isn’t perfect in any way. But I also see the chances of keeping him and getting him on a decent deal as likely to pay off better than moving him for meh and a super protected pick.

This summer only DET, ORL and SA have cap space. I think SA loves Poeltl and sees him as a long term fi (Amazing rim defender too). So it’s DET and ORL. I don’t think either FO is stupid enough to pay Nurk as he is 100% the type of character who goes 110% when motivated but would shut down and go ambivalent on a rebuild team.

So long story short, I don’t think a deal will appear that trumps the good chances we can resign him for cheapish.
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Re: Nurk 

Post#3 » by Norm2953 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:38 am

Boston after tonight's game might have some interest
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Re: Nurk 

Post#4 » by PDXKnight » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:02 am

Honestly unless we get a decent offer (a first) i’m all for just letting this season ride with him and cov and then re evaluating in the off season. In my eyes much more pressing is either trading cj or dealing the better asset in norm for a wing so that we can get bigger
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Re: Nurk 

Post#5 » by Norm2953 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:45 am

Indeed, the priority should be to move CJ for the goal should be to prepare for the Anfernee Simons
era in Portland. Portland will have to decide where Dame fits and what type of pieces Portland will
need to succeed.

I don't think its a coincidence that Nurk's game has suddenly improved with the arrival of Simons.
With few teams having any real cap space, its not unreasonable Nurk ends up back in Portland for
this team even with Nurk lacks size up front
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Re: Nurk 

Post#6 » by Dame Lizard » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:42 am

Norm2953 wrote:Indeed, the priority should be to move CJ for the goal should be to prepare for the Anfernee Simons
era in Portland. Portland will have to decide where Dame fits and what type of pieces Portland will
need to succeed.

I don't think its a coincidence that Nurk's game has suddenly improved with the arrival of Simons.
With few teams having any real cap space, its not unreasonable Nurk ends up back in Portland for
this team even with Nurk lacks size up front
Agree.

I'm interested to see how Anfernee looks alongside a fresh Dame next year.

CJ simply has to be traded. He's been a very good player for Portland (and it's not his fault that his contract is bloated), but it's time to move on from at least CJ.
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Re: Nurk 

Post#7 » by Dame Lizard » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:45 am

Not to derail the Nurk topic, but what is Anfernee's max rookie contract? (given the extension deadline has passed, and he hasn't made an All Star game).
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Re: Nurk 

Post#8 » by PDXKnight » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:14 pm

Dame Lizard wrote:Not to derail the Nurk topic, but what is Anfernee's max rookie contract? (given the extension deadline has passed, and he hasn't made an All Star game).



luka got 5/172 with a 5th year option. When i look at that amount i’m not sure anfernee gets paid that, maybe more like 4/120 in line with what cj makes. The good news is the higher end of that deal would be when cj comes off the books
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Re: Nurk 

Post#9 » by Norm2953 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:22 am

One would think Simons will get an offer similar to what GTJ got from Toronto. Likely there will be an opt
out for he will want to establish his value around the league after this break out season.
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Re: Nurk 

Post#10 » by monopoman » Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:04 am

Oden2 wrote:
Dame Lizard wrote:Not to derail the Nurk topic, but what is Anfernee's max rookie contract? (given the extension deadline has passed, and he hasn't made an All Star game).



luka got 5/172 with a 5th year option. When i look at that amount i’m not sure anfernee gets paid that, maybe more like 4/120 in line with what cj makes. The good news is the higher end of that deal would be when cj comes off the books


I assume the amount will be less because he hasn't made an all-star game and he is younger than CJ was in his last contract, I know # of years in the league also factor into how big a contract you can get.

CJ has never appeared in an all-star game, and Anfernee is in that same boat. I think Anfernee has a much higher chance of getting that all-star appearance at some point.
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Re: Nurk 

Post#11 » by Dame Lizard » Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:50 am

Norm2953 wrote:One would think Simons will get an offer similar to what GTJ got from Toronto. Likely there will be an opt
out for he will want to establish his value around the league after this break out season.
Gary Trent only got 3/54.

I can see Simons getting a 4/110. He's showing genuine All Star quality now (as to whether it's sustainable time will tell, but he doesn't show signs of dropping off).
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Re: Nurk 

Post#12 » by monopoman » Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:14 am

Dame Lizard wrote:
Norm2953 wrote:One would think Simons will get an offer similar to what GTJ got from Toronto. Likely there will be an opt
out for he will want to establish his value around the league after this break out season.
Gary Trent only got 3/54.

I can see Simons getting a 4/110. He's showing genuine All Star quality now (as to whether it's sustainable time will tell, but he doesn't show signs of dropping off).


There is also the untapped potential angle here, he is putting on an impressive show and is nowhere near his prime years yet. ****, you watch him and you still see moments where he doesn't make the right play, or shows inexperience that you wouldn't see from a NBA player that had more time on the court.
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Re: Nurk 

Post#13 » by wjun15 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:47 am

please get rid of nurk. we know he's playing for a contract and he's gonna be doo doo as always and he's an injury waiting to happen. and he's never shown up jn the playoffs (either due to fouling out or injury)

he's not a player you want on a championship team.

oh and he finishes like a point guard around the rim whenever he's playing an actual legit center and not some undersized sf
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Re: Nurk 

Post#14 » by JasonStern » Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:01 pm

The problem with trading Nurkić is you need to replace him.

Outside of your Jokić/Embiid tier centers, bigs - especially injury prone ones - aren't in high demand. If Nurkić can be retained in the off-season for MLE money, it makes zero sense to trade him unless you're getting a legit upgrade. Or tanking, which doesn't seem to currently be the plan.

Kwame Zeller is the real problem. We know Nurkić is injury prone and thus having a backup center is more important to us than many other teams. And yet in pure Olshey form they signed someone even more injury prone and less reliable as a backup. Say what you want about Enes Kanter-Freedom and Hassan Whiteside, but at least they suited up and played minutes.
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Re: Nurk 

Post#15 » by BlazersBroncos » Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:13 pm

JasonStern wrote:The problem with trading Nurkić is you need to replace him.

Outside of your Jokić/Embiid tier centers, bigs - especially injury prone ones - aren't in high demand. If Nurkić can be retained in the off-season for MLE money, it makes zero sense to trade him unless you're getting a legit upgrade. Or tanking, which doesn't seem to currently be the plan.

Kwame Zeller is the real problem. We know Nurkić is injury prone and thus having a backup center is more important to us than many other teams. And yet in pure Olshey form they signed someone even more injury prone and less reliable as a backup. Say what you want about Enes Kanter-Freedom and Hassan Whiteside, but at least they suited up and played minutes.



Exactly. Look around the league. Very few teams need a starting C. There is a decent chance Nurk gets only MLE type offers, which for a non-taxpayer team is 9.5M. If he gets those offers, we just say 'come back at your 12M salary'.

Nurkic isnt perfect, but the timing of his FA may put us in a position to get him back on a deal near what he makes now (12M). You simply cant pass that up. Thats 4-5th starter money, which is exactly what Jusuf is.
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Re: Nurk 

Post#16 » by Wizenheimer » Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:06 pm

the max 1st year salary for Simons is 25% of the salary cap. That would also be his max base salary. If the cap is 112M then his base salary could be as high as 28M. So, the max offer sheet he could get is 4 years of a base salary + 5% step raises of the base salary. That works out to a 4-year/120.4M deal. 30M year

if some idiot team offers Simons that much, the Blazers would be even bigger idiots to match. That would be olshey-idiocy on steroids

I don't think that will happen because only a few teams will have enough cap-space to make Simons a offer of even 20M/year. In fact, only 3 teams could have that much cap-space (depending on what happens at the trade deadline & draft); Spurs, Pistons, and Magic

here is the scheduled 'bottom-10' teams in terms of salary next season

21 Portland Trail Blazers $110,836,668
22 Sacramento Kings $107,450,189
23 Cleveland Cavaliers $106,732,106
24 Minnesota Timberwolves $106,268,824
25 Oklahoma City Thunder $104,268,724
26 Chicago Bulls $102,074,472
27 Memphis Grizzlies $101,300,599
28 San Antonio Spurs $89,668,711
29 Detroit Pistons $86,680,949
30 Orlando Magic $83,069,280


first thing you notice (assuming a 112M cap) is that Portland is supposedly under the cap. But their projection does not include Simons; nor does it include Nurkic & RoCo. In other words, they are only technically under the cap; reality says they have to worry about tax. I'm not going to bother going thru all those teams to see which teams might be able to clear space; and then try and figure which of those teams would be interested in Simons on a max or near max deal

which brings up the point: is Simons a SG or a PG? If a team views Simons as a SG then he's a CJ clone (without as many ball-hog genes); and still an undersized 2 who plays crappy defense. He'd have more value as a PG, but a lot of teams are not interested in a score-first-bad-defense PG at 25M/year.

Now, Detroit might be a threat here. They might look at a Cunningham/Simons back court as worth spending on, especially considering that Cunningham has 3 years left on his rookie deal. They could have a core of 20-22 year old players of Cunningham/Simons/Saddiq Bey/Diallo/Stewart. And several with 2-3 years left on rookie deals. Orlando is another possibility. They could also add Simons and have a young core of players with lots of upside. But while the 6'6 Cunningham and 6'3 Simons look like a decent match, Simons and 6'2 Cole Anthony don't

the other issue is this: if the Blazers finally, thankfully end what they should have never started, the Dame/CJ experiment, landing on a Dame/Simons experiment would be maximum folly. A reboot of a failed assumption

so, if Portland is not going to trade Dame....and they certainly aren't, then they'd be smart to look at Simons as a 6th man. A backup PG who could run the offense and score at an efficient pace. At most, 15M a year should be the range of his salary. Certainly no more than Powell's and hopefully less

I'd be kind of ok with Simons re-signed at 15M/year or less. But only if both CJ and Powell are traded. Enough of these 6'3 and under wings. For godsakes...please end the olshey rosters
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Re: Nurk 

Post#17 » by Wizenheimer » Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:28 pm

as for Nurkic, he'd be well worth keeping at 20M/year.....if this was 2008. An injury-prone, 25-28 min/game traditional C is not worth much more than an MLE. He's been very good lately, but that's very good on a mediocre team. And I'm always leery of players in contract years. That goes double for somebody like Nurkic who has been wildly inconsistent his entire career.

now, I don't think RoCo will re-sign with Portland. He should be traded before the deadline. Because of Dame I'd think Nurkic would lean toward re-signing. But he should not make more than his current 12M

***************************************************************************************

I'm pretty pessimistic about the Blazers. They've had a feel-good stretch lately because they are logging some wins against the bad and mediocre teams of the East. That relieves some pressure on Cronin and I think that's a bad thing. Jody Allen and the Vulcan don't give a sht if Portland is a contender. The Blazers are just a cash cow to them generating profits and tax shelter. They are the big fish in a small pond and there is no other competition in the market.

I think what is likely is that Portland is finding an equilibrium between wins and losses; Nance and Powell will come back and Portland will probably win more than they lose, at least until they get into the heavy part of their Western Conference schedule. Then Dame will return and there will be hope that this year will be different, then the Blazers will get boat-raced in the 1st round after losing the draft pick. And the Vulcans will be just fine with another reboot next season
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Re: Nurk 

Post#18 » by PDXKnight » Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:01 am

Wizenheimer wrote:the max 1st year salary for Simons is 25% of the salary cap. That would also be his max base salary. If the cap is 112M then his base salary could be as high as 28M. So, the max offer sheet he could get is 4 years of a base salary + 5% step raises of the base salary. That works out to a 4-year/120.4M deal. 30M year

if some idiot team offers Simons that much, the Blazers would be even bigger idiots to match. That would be olshey-idiocy on steroids

I don't think that will happen because only a few teams will have enough cap-space to make Simons a offer of even 20M/year. In fact, only 3 teams could have that much cap-space (depending on what happens at the trade deadline & draft); Spurs, Pistons, and Magic

here is the scheduled 'bottom-10' teams in terms of salary next season

21 Portland Trail Blazers $110,836,668
22 Sacramento Kings $107,450,189
23 Cleveland Cavaliers $106,732,106
24 Minnesota Timberwolves $106,268,824
25 Oklahoma City Thunder $104,268,724
26 Chicago Bulls $102,074,472
27 Memphis Grizzlies $101,300,599
28 San Antonio Spurs $89,668,711
29 Detroit Pistons $86,680,949
30 Orlando Magic $83,069,280


first thing you notice (assuming a 112M cap) is that Portland is supposedly under the cap. But their projection does not include Simons; nor does it include Nurkic & RoCo. In other words, they are only technically under the cap; reality says they have to worry about tax. I'm not going to bother going thru all those teams to see which teams might be able to clear space; and then try and figure which of those teams would be interested in Simons on a max or near max deal

which brings up the point: is Simons a SG or a PG? If a team views Simons as a SG then he's a CJ clone (without as many ball-hog genes); and still an undersized 2 who plays crappy defense. He'd have more value as a PG, but a lot of teams are not interested in a score-first-bad-defense PG at 25M/year.

Now, Detroit might be a threat here. They might look at a Cunningham/Simons back court as worth spending on, especially considering that Cunningham has 3 years left on his rookie deal. They could have a core of 20-22 year old players of Cunningham/Simons/Saddiq Bey/Diallo/Stewart. And several with 2-3 years left on rookie deals. Orlando is another possibility. They could also add Simons and have a young core of players with lots of upside. But while the 6'6 Cunningham and 6'3 Simons look like a decent match, Simons and 6'2 Cole Anthony don't

the other issue is this: if the Blazers finally, thankfully end what they should have never started, the Dame/CJ experiment, landing on a Dame/Simons experiment would be maximum folly. A reboot of a failed assumption

so, if Portland is not going to trade Dame....and they certainly aren't, then they'd be smart to look at Simons as a 6th man. A backup PG who could run the offense and score at an efficient pace. At most, 15M a year should be the range of his salary. Certainly no more than Powell's and hopefully less

I'd be kind of ok with Simons re-signed at 15M/year or less. But only if both CJ and Powell are traded. Enough of these 6'3 and under wings. For godsakes...please end the olshey rosters


I think simons at 20 mil per seems about right, and i think not matching him is foolish. Simons at 4/80 is gonna be a tradeable asset even if he’s a 6th man, if we dump cj for cap relief it’s even more common sense
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Re: Nurk 

Post#19 » by Wizenheimer » Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:44 am

Oden2 wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:the max 1st year salary for Simons is 25% of the salary cap. That would also be his max base salary. If the cap is 112M then his base salary could be as high as 28M. So, the max offer sheet he could get is 4 years of a base salary + 5% step raises of the base salary. That works out to a 4-year/120.4M deal. 30M year

if some idiot team offers Simons that much, the Blazers would be even bigger idiots to match. That would be olshey-idiocy on steroids

I don't think that will happen because only a few teams will have enough cap-space to make Simons a offer of even 20M/year. In fact, only 3 teams could have that much cap-space (depending on what happens at the trade deadline & draft); Spurs, Pistons, and Magic

here is the scheduled 'bottom-10' teams in terms of salary next season

21 Portland Trail Blazers $110,836,668
22 Sacramento Kings $107,450,189
23 Cleveland Cavaliers $106,732,106
24 Minnesota Timberwolves $106,268,824
25 Oklahoma City Thunder $104,268,724
26 Chicago Bulls $102,074,472
27 Memphis Grizzlies $101,300,599
28 San Antonio Spurs $89,668,711
29 Detroit Pistons $86,680,949
30 Orlando Magic $83,069,280


first thing you notice (assuming a 112M cap) is that Portland is supposedly under the cap. But their projection does not include Simons; nor does it include Nurkic & RoCo. In other words, they are only technically under the cap; reality says they have to worry about tax. I'm not going to bother going thru all those teams to see which teams might be able to clear space; and then try and figure which of those teams would be interested in Simons on a max or near max deal

which brings up the point: is Simons a SG or a PG? If a team views Simons as a SG then he's a CJ clone (without as many ball-hog genes); and still an undersized 2 who plays crappy defense. He'd have more value as a PG, but a lot of teams are not interested in a score-first-bad-defense PG at 25M/year.

Now, Detroit might be a threat here. They might look at a Cunningham/Simons back court as worth spending on, especially considering that Cunningham has 3 years left on his rookie deal. They could have a core of 20-22 year old players of Cunningham/Simons/Saddiq Bey/Diallo/Stewart. And several with 2-3 years left on rookie deals. Orlando is another possibility. They could also add Simons and have a young core of players with lots of upside. But while the 6'6 Cunningham and 6'3 Simons look like a decent match, Simons and 6'2 Cole Anthony don't

the other issue is this: if the Blazers finally, thankfully end what they should have never started, the Dame/CJ experiment, landing on a Dame/Simons experiment would be maximum folly. A reboot of a failed assumption

so, if Portland is not going to trade Dame....and they certainly aren't, then they'd be smart to look at Simons as a 6th man. A backup PG who could run the offense and score at an efficient pace. At most, 15M a year should be the range of his salary. Certainly no more than Powell's and hopefully less

I'd be kind of ok with Simons re-signed at 15M/year or less. But only if both CJ and Powell are traded. Enough of these 6'3 and under wings. For godsakes...please end the olshey rosters


I think simons at 20 mil per seems about right, and i think not matching him is foolish. Simons at 4/80 is gonna be a tradeable asset even if he’s a 6th man, if we dump cj for cap relief it’s even more common sense


as I said, if Portland is re-signing Simons to replace CJ in the starting lineup, they are just rebooting the same major problem that has held them back for 7 years. A Dame/Ant back court would not lead Portland to any better place than a Dame/CJ back court did

if they are re-signing Simons to be a super-sub and a trade chip, then they need to trade both CJ and Powell IMO. They can't afford to pay three 6'3 & under guards over 90M a year. And for damn sure they can not go into another season with Powell as the starting SF. That's just dumb

this is the nature of the roster mess Olshey left
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Re: Nurk 

Post#20 » by monopoman » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:05 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
JasonStern wrote:The problem with trading Nurkić is you need to replace him.

Outside of your Jokić/Embiid tier centers, bigs - especially injury prone ones - aren't in high demand. If Nurkić can be retained in the off-season for MLE money, it makes zero sense to trade him unless you're getting a legit upgrade. Or tanking, which doesn't seem to currently be the plan.

Kwame Zeller is the real problem. We know Nurkić is injury prone and thus having a backup center is more important to us than many other teams. And yet in pure Olshey form they signed someone even more injury prone and less reliable as a backup. Say what you want about Enes Kanter-Freedom and Hassan Whiteside, but at least they suited up and played minutes.



Exactly. Look around the league. Very few teams need a starting C. There is a decent chance Nurk gets only MLE type offers, which for a non-taxpayer team is 9.5M. If he gets those offers, we just say 'come back at your 12M salary'.

Nurkic isnt perfect, but the timing of his FA may put us in a position to get him back on a deal near what he makes now (12M). You simply cant pass that up. Thats 4-5th starter money, which is exactly what Jusuf is.


If we truly go all in on a rebuild with Simons+Little I doubt Nurk wants to stay anyways. He talked about how he refuses to play for the Blazers if Lillard ever leaves. Maybe his attitude will change if he and Simons hit it off but he sure did not seem happy when there were rumors of Lillard leaving last Summer.

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