Cronin becomes permanent GM

[Dame Lizard]

I just don't understand how you get a promotion after trading Roco, Powell, Nance, and CJ for one future late first, and 2 seconds. It's almost like we were more worried about sending them where they wanted to go rather than getting a good return, and frankly I think that's what happened. Yes, the NO pick was a lottery pick but not negotiating for the better of those 2 picks was crazy. Griffin owned Cronin in that deal. The pelicans have an their own picks, all of LA's picks, and all of MIl picks, and that's the best we could do?

I do like Winslow and Hart, but NO had Herb Jones and Trey Murphy but we got Didi instead.. and LA had Boston Jr and Tre Mann but we got Keon (look at his percentages before the deadline). Just awful returns.

ok...question: can you recall at any point in NBA history when a non-all-star has been traded for a GUARANTEED lottery pick? I sure can't. There are always conditions and protections attached to picks for less than elite players. It took a perfect storm of bad luck for the Blazers to lose the 2nd lottery pick. Apparently, Cronin is an idiot because he couldn't anticipate the total collapse of the Lakers or Paul George getting Covid on the day of the play-in game. If he's healthy, the Blazers have the 11th pick today

there is only one GM that would have traded a 1st for RoCo, Powell, or Nance, and he's out of a job.

there seems to be an article of faith in Blazer nation among some fans that the players Portland traded had more value than Portland got for them. That Cronin was turning down 'better' trades and accepting worse ones. Where is the proof of that? I sure haven't seen it. The only 'evidence' I've seen, from Jake Fisher, says the opposite. He said there were a couple of other offers for CJ from Atlanta and Dallas, compare them to what Portland got:

* Atlanta - Gallinari + filler + a future protected 1st
* Dallas - Powell + Kleber + filler + future protected 1st (before the Porzingis trade)
* Pelicans - Hart + Louzada + 21M TPE + 3.3M TPE + future protected 1st

sure looks like the Blazers did fine if it's true those were the offers. Now, I suppose you can factor in Nance, but I don't think he was significant at all because he was injured at the time and ended up only playing in 15 of 36 games for the Pels. Of course, he's always injured and is just about guaranteed to miss significant time next season. Further, it's just about certain RoCo was not going to re-sign in Portland; and the nature of Powell's contract and talent didn't have him carrying any significant positive value

another blatantly obvious factor is that Cronin was not operating with a free hand. He had instructions from Seattle and it's obvious those instructions were:

* dismantle the latest dumbass reboot of olshey's rinse-repeat-dead-end rosters
* get under the tax
* significantly reduce future payroll

it's possible (but unlikely?) there were other offers out there but they required Portland to take on too much future salary, and that was a no-fly zone because of having to re-sign Simons and Nurkic

Sure looks like Cronin hit the supposed benchmarks from the Vulcans. The 4 players he traded were hogging half of the Blazer payroll, but they didn't have a smidgeon of upside. They had Portland's trajectory flat-lined and were primary reasons for Portland's purgatory. The had to go. It's pretty easy to imagine that Cronin hit some home runs in the eyes of the Vulcans so it's little wonder why they gave him the job

if there are valid complaints, and I think there are, they are with Seattle a lot more than they are with Cronin

Agree with this post a lot.

Do we need to remind people of CJ's contract? He's due $33m and $36m over the next two years. He's a good player, but that's a bad contract (thanks Olshey). We won the New Orleans deal. Obviously Paul George getting Covid ruined the overall outcomes, but protected draft picks are always a gamble.

While I have no doubt that we could have gotten better value from the RoCo and Powell deal (at least a first round pick + expiring bad contracts back), the imperative was to clear salary. That was a poor trade in my view, but it still accomplished things for Portland.

The thing I'm very nervous about is trading #6 for Grant.

[monopoman]

We also can't really hit Cronin for that missing 1st round pick, it took the Lakers flaming out then on top of that the Clippers losing PG to Covid during that play-in game.

I think the Clippers win that play-in game if PG is healthy. The Pelicans probably had like a 15% chance of making the playoffs on the day the trade was made.

[JasonStern]

we gave him a 4 year contract so looks like the team is buying into whatever vision he is selling..

The retool/rebuild isn't over until we see what he does in 2025 with that MIL 1st, right?

[Case2012]

The pelicans have a million picks, getting a late 2025 pick as a consolation for a lottery pick was idiotic. If you guys want to give him a pass for his moves, fine but the guy can't negotiate for **** and you're naive as hell if you don't think he was included in all the other idiotic things olshey did.

[JasonStern]

It's probably gonna to be 6 for Grant, Hayes (classic reclamation move by olshey/Cronin) and a second.
TEAM JODY!!!

You give him too much credit. Wouldn't be surprised if #6/Hart/Bledsoe or Gordon - whichever we have, ends up becoming James Harden, aka Crash Wallace 2.0.

[DusterBuster]

The pelicans have a million picks, getting a late 2025 pick as a consolation for a lottery pick was idiotic. If you guys want to give him a pass for his moves, fine but the guy can't negotiate for **** and you're naive as hell if you don't think he was included in all the other idiotic things olshey did.

At risk of sounding like I'm giving him a pass, it sounds like Cronin was doing CJ a solid out of respect for his time with the club. CJ said Cronin asked him what team he wanted to go to and the Pelicans were his pick... Now, I would assume Cronin gave CJ a list of teams that wanted him since not every team in the league would have wanted CJ, so I'm sure Pelicans were like... 1 of 4 or 5 teams lets guess. But regardless, giving CJ the choice does automatically put you in a disadvantage in negotiations.

So yeah, no pass given here, but there are a lot of factors at play that is fair to acknowledge.

But! There are no factors at play I can see that explain the Clippers trade. CJ trade was like a C- deal, but at best was probably only ever going to be a C+/B- had the pick conveyed. But that Clippers trade... Just a straight-up F- no matter how you cut it.

[Case2012]

Yeah, I'm well aware he did CJ a solid and he deserved to go to a good situation. However, we could've played hardball and sat him until the off-season and traded him at the draft or whenever a better deal came along. The pick we gave up for Nance completely destroyed our ability to involve multiple picks in big trades until 2023 at the soonest. Cronin was the assistant gm when that deal was made and if he didn't have some input on that, then what exactly was his job? Then a few months later he gave away Nance as a throw in without insuring we received a pick back THIS year, which happens to be an extremely important off-season. You can't excuse that ineptitude. Wiz can bring up those supposed offers as many times as he wants but there's no way of confirming them, and if that's the best we could've gotten, then just wait for something better. Even San Antonio got a first for taking Dragic by just waiting a few more days. It's like I said, he just did those guys a solid instead of doing his job to the best of his ability. And if that WAS the best ift his ability, then we should've conducted an actual search. Yes, I'm sure his main directive from the Vulcan dip****$ was to shed salary, but not getting at least 2 firsts for 4 starters is really really bad.

[DusterBuster]

Yeah, I'm well aware he did CJ a solid and he deserved to go to a good situation. However, we could've played hardball and sat him until the off-season and traded him at the draft or whenever a better deal came along. The pick we gave up for Nance completely destroyed our ability to involve multiple picks in big trades until 2023 at the soonest. Cronin was the assistant gm when that deal was made and if he didn't have some input on that, then what exactly was his job? Then a few months later he gave away Nance as a throw in without insuring we received a pick back THIS year, which happens to be an extremely important off-season. You can't excuse that ineptitude. Wiz can bring up those supposed offers as many times as he wants but there's no way of confirming them, and if that's the best we could've gotten, then just wait for something better. Even San Antonio got a first for taking Dragic by just waiting a few more days. It's like I said, he just did those guys a solid instead of doing his job to the best of his ability. And if that WAS the best ift his ability, then we should've conducted an actual search. Yes, I'm sure his main directive from the Vulcan dip****$ was to shed salary, but not getting at least 2 firsts for 4 starters is really really bad.

Not sure I love the idea of sitting on CJ for an off-season trade, think it was important to know what you’re working with going into the summer.

That said, yes, the pick that was thrown in for Nance was insane. I said at the time that deal was done that throwing that pick in absolutely would bite the Blazers in the ass and it absolutely predictably did. But I’m also not going to pass the buck on that deal to him. Olshey was the one running the ship, he made that trade, not Cronin. We don’t know what Cronin’s input on that deal was. At the end of the day, Olshey was his boss and making the final call.

[monopoman]

Are people really claiming that CJ is a damn great contract?

68 million owed over the next two seasons, a player that has constantly underperformed in the playoffs compared to what he can do in the regular season. Even there is extremely streaky and will go through phases where he looks incredible and phases where he looks very rough.

I really think CJ is a great guy, but he is payed like a all-star and I have a hard time imaging him ever making an all-star game. Around 18 million a season I think he does look a lot better but he is paid nearly double that.

The entire board was begging for a trade for CJ for over a year and some were even willing to give him straight up for Kevin Love, with maybe a 2nd round pick or something attached.

[Wizenheimer]

Yeah, I'm well aware he did CJ a solid and he deserved to go to a good situation. However, we could've played hardball and sat him until the off-season and traded him at the draft or whenever a better deal came along. The pick we gave up for Nance completely destroyed our ability to involve multiple picks in big trades until 2023 at the soonest. Cronin was the assistant gm when that deal was made and if he didn't have some input on that, then what exactly was his job? Then a few months later he gave away Nance as a throw in without insuring we received a pick back THIS year, which happens to be an extremely important off-season. You can't excuse that ineptitude. Wiz can bring up those supposed offers as many times as he wants but there's no way of confirming them, and if that's the best we could've gotten, then just wait for something better. Even San Antonio got a first for taking Dragic by just waiting a few more days. It's like I said, he just did those guys a solid instead of doing his job to the best of his ability. And if that WAS the best ift his ability, then we should've conducted an actual search. Yes, I'm sure his main directive from the Vulcan dip****$ was to shed salary, but not getting at least 2 firsts for 4 starters is really really bad.

holy crap there's a of stuff there to unpack

* as DB said, trying to blame Cronin for Olshey doing a crappy job is loopy. Olshey sure as hell didn't come across as a guy who would subordinate his opinion to any form of staff management democracy. We know enough about olshey-vision to have lots of confidence that original Nance trade, and just about every transaction, good & bad (mostly bad) in the Olshey era was Olshey diven
***********************************************

* you may not like it when I mention the two other 'reported' offers for CJ, but those are all we have to gauge the actual value of any players traded. It might not be a great gauge, I don't know for sure. But at least it 'indicates' the actual value other teams saw in one of the players Portland traded. The imagined value of those players by some Portland fans might be a hell of a lot further from reality than those 2 "supposed" offers from Atlanta and Detroit. Blind faith in player value by fans rarely matches real-world value
************************************************

* the whole 'Blazers-should-have-waited-till-summer' argument being used against the trades is bogus. To start with, I think it's pretty safe to say that the Vulcans were pushing hard for current and future payroll reduction. They had recently engineered the firing of the GM who was always kicking the twin cans of decision and action down the road. Their patience for procrastination could easily have been at an end.

secondly, the value for non-elite players is usually much higher at the trade deadline when the draft order and roster effectiveness is more apparent for every team. The off-season can be better for those blockbuster trades of elite players...but not always

but more than that is that if Portland had kept the status quo at the deadline and just rolled into the off-season with their dead-end roster, they would not have a 6th pick and it's odds for a top-4 pick. Portland would have lost their asset with the most upside

and to make matters worse: most of the criticism of Cronin centers around the assumption that he didn't use leverage properly at the trade deadline. That he gave in rather than sticking to his guns. But if the Blazers still had CJ, Powell, and Nance heading into the off-season, they would be looking at being a damn long ways over the tax line if they would have re-signed Simons and Nurkic. Other teams would know that as well as knowing what Vulcan priorities were. Cronin would have had no leverage to use in trade negotiations. Further, because Portland was between the rock and hard place of tax & Vulcans, it may easily have caused other teams to make big offers to Simons and Nurkic because Portland might not match
******************************************

another canard: Portland "traded 4 starters". Nance wasn't a starter. Powell was only a starter (out of position) because Olshey was such a bad GM and couldn't ever land a quality forward after losing LMA and Batum. And RoCo was a provisional starter; when he was the best starting forward, it was a bad situation

so no, Portland didn't trade 4 starters, it was more like 1.5. What Portland did trade was 4 guys with no upside at all who were hogging half of Portland's payroll while being primary reasons why the Blazers were in purgatory
*******************************************

Spurs got a 1st in the Draic trade so the Nance trade sucked: the reality is that Toronto sent a first for Thaddeus Young a player at a position they needed help at. A critical difference between Young and Nance is that Young was healthy, while Nance was down with yet another injury, one that might have kept him out the entire season

and finally, yes the Spurs got the 20th pick. But they also gave up the 33rd pick so essentially they traded a functional player for the right to move up in the draft order.
***********************************************

I'm no fan of Cronin and said weeks ago that I preferred the Blazers had a more experienced GM to manage the draft and off-season. I don't have much confidence in Cronin to do so. I think he did a good job of dismantling the dead-end roster Olshey had rebooted for the 6th or 7th or 8th time...can't keep track. And I am inclined to think that he might have been able to leverage a little better collection of assets from the trades he executed. But the gap between what he got and what I suspect he might have got is not that large at all. Certainly it isn't large enough to go on a jihad against him, especially considering it was a perfect storm of bad luck that kept Portland from having the 11th pick in this lottery

[Case2012]

I can blame Cronin for being involved with olshey's moves just as easily as you can dismiss them. We weren't in those rooms. If an assistant gm doesn't assist in general managing then.. I guess you'd be right. Not sure what his role would be otherwise, but ok.

Powell was a starter playing out of position, but still a starter. So was Roco. Nance didn't start but I would've actually started him over roco personally. The point I'm making is that imo he's capable of being a starter. CJ is a borderline all star when he's the primary ball handler. Regardless of their upside and the cap they were taking up, you don't have to give them away for the BARE minimum return, which is what they did.

SA traded up from 33 to 20 for taking on an expiring. That's a good deal. Those trades Cronin made were days better the deadline, why be in a rush to make bad deals?
You've referenced the offers a few times, but who can really confirm those? Would they have sweetened the pot if we played hard ball and waited closer to the dead line? IF worst comes to worst, just shed Roco to get under the line. You don't have to give away everyone.

I'm not going jihad (weird analogy but ok) on Cronin. I think the vulcans told him to shed salary and he did. I just think he got owned in those deals and being the salary cap genius he is, we've certainly had our fair share of cap issues over the years. How much dead salary have we had over the years?

I just can't imagine olshey not taking input from his second in command, regardless of how much of a raging narcissist he is. Maybe Cronin is a yes man and lacks the ability to stand up for himself in work place situations? That would help explain his hiring to full time gm, especially given how controlling the vulcans are. But that probably means he's a **** negotiator too.

Lastly, even if pg played that last game, there's no guarantee the clips would've won. The pelicans were rolling, which you'd have to expect after adding a player of CJs caliber. We should've gotten the better of the LA and new Orleans pick. Period. The pelicans made that deal to get into the playoffs and they did. They could've given us the Lakers pick instead, Cronin couldn't pull it off.

Not a fan. We'll see what happens but with Cronin but I'm not optimistic.

[Dame Lizard]

I'm also not a fan of the appointment Case, as I'd have preferred a proven commodity (e.g. Danny Ainge).

However, I'm with Wiz in that I think it's too long of a stretch to blame Cronin for Olshey's decisions, particularly given Olshey's management style.

[JRoy]

Yeah, I'm well aware he did CJ a solid and he deserved to go to a good situation. However, we could've played hardball and sat him until the off-season and traded him at the draft or whenever a better deal came along. The pick we gave up for Nance completely destroyed our ability to involve multiple picks in big trades until 2023 at the soonest. Cronin was the assistant gm when that deal was made and if he didn't have some input on that, then what exactly was his job? Then a few months later he gave away Nance as a throw in without insuring we received a pick back THIS year, which happens to be an extremely important off-season. You can't excuse that ineptitude. Wiz can bring up those supposed offers as many times as he wants but there's no way of confirming them, and if that's the best we could've gotten, then just wait for something better. Even San Antonio got a first for taking Dragic by just waiting a few more days. It's like I said, he just did those guys a solid instead of doing his job to the best of his ability. And if that WAS the best ift his ability, then we should've conducted an actual search. Yes, I'm sure his main directive from the Vulcan dip****$ was to shed salary, but not getting at least 2 firsts for 4 starters is really really bad.

holy crap there's a of stuff there to unpack

* as DB said, trying to blame Cronin for Olshey doing a crappy job is loopy. Olshey sure as hell didn't come across as a guy who would subordinate his opinion to any form of staff management democracy. We know enough about olshey-vision to have lots of confidence that original Nance trade, and just about every transaction, good & bad (mostly bad) in the Olshey era was Olshey diven
***********************************************

* you may not like it when I mention the two other 'reported' offers for CJ, but those are all we have to gauge the actual value of any players traded. It might not be a great gauge, I don't know for sure. But at least it 'indicates' the actual value other teams saw in one of the players Portland traded. The imagined value of those players by some Portland fans might be a hell of a lot further from reality than those 2 "supposed" offers from Atlanta and Detroit. Blind faith in player value by fans rarely matches real-world value
************************************************

* the whole 'Blazers-should-have-waited-till-summer' argument being used against the trades is bogus. To start with, I think it's pretty safe to say that the Vulcans were pushing hard for current and future payroll reduction. They had recently engineered the firing of the GM who was always kicking the twin cans of decision and action down the road. Their patience for procrastination could easily have been at an end.

secondly, the value for non-elite players is usually much higher at the trade deadline when the draft order and roster effectiveness is more apparent for every team. The off-season can be better for those blockbuster trades of elite players...but not always

but more than that is that if Portland had kept the status quo at the deadline and just rolled into the off-season with their dead-end roster, they would not have a 6th pick and it's odds for a top-4 pick. Portland would have lost their asset with the most upside

and to make matters worse: most of the criticism of Cronin centers around the assumption that he didn't use leverage properly at the trade deadline. That he gave in rather than sticking to his guns. But if the Blazers still had CJ, Powell, and Nance heading into the off-season, they would be looking at being a damn long ways over the tax line if they would have re-signed Simons and Nurkic. Other teams would know that as well as knowing what Vulcan priorities were. Cronin would have had no leverage to use in trade negotiations. Further, because Portland was between the rock and hard place of tax & Vulcans, it may easily have caused other teams to make big offers to Simons and Nurkic because Portland might not match
******************************************

another canard: Portland "traded 4 starters". Nance wasn't a starter. Powell was only a starter (out of position) because Olshey was such a bad GM and couldn't ever land a quality forward after losing LMA and Batum. And RoCo was a provisional starter; when he was the best starting forward, it was a bad situation

so no, Portland didn't trade 4 starters, it was more like 1.5. What Portland did trade was 4 guys with no upside at all who were hogging half of Portland's payroll while being primary reasons why the Blazers were in purgatory
*******************************************

Spurs got a 1st in the Draic trade so the Nance trade sucked: the reality is that Toronto sent a first for Thaddeus Young a player at a position they needed help at. A critical difference between Young and Nance is that Young was healthy, while Nance was down with yet another injury, one that might have kept him out the entire season

and finally, yes the Spurs got the 20th pick. But they also gave up the 33rd pick so essentially they traded a functional player for the right to move up in the draft order.
***********************************************

I'm no fan of Cronin and said weeks ago that I preferred the Blazers had a more experienced GM to manage the draft and off-season. I don't have much confidence in Cronin to do so. I think he did a good job of dismantling the dead-end roster Olshey had rebooted for the 6th or 7th or 8th time...can't keep track. And I am inclined to think that he might have been able to leverage a little better collection of assets from the trades he executed. But the gap between what he got and what I suspect he might have got is not that large at all. Certainly it isn't large enough to go on a jihad against him, especially considering it was a perfect storm of bad luck that kept Portland from having the 11th pick in this lottery

Great post.

We had to rip the CJ bandaid off, as we should have years ago.

[Case2012]

Yeah, I'm well aware he did CJ a solid and he deserved to go to a good situation. However, we could've played hardball and sat him until the off-season and traded him at the draft or whenever a better deal came along. The pick we gave up for Nance completely destroyed our ability to involve multiple picks in big trades until 2023 at the soonest. Cronin was the assistant gm when that deal was made and if he didn't have some input on that, then what exactly was his job? Then a few months later he gave away Nance as a throw in without insuring we received a pick back THIS year, which happens to be an extremely important off-season. You can't excuse that ineptitude. Wiz can bring up those supposed offers as many times as he wants but there's no way of confirming them, and if that's the best we could've gotten, then just wait for something better. Even San Antonio got a first for taking Dragic by just waiting a few more days. It's like I said, he just did those guys a solid instead of doing his job to the best of his ability. And if that WAS the best ift his ability, then we should've conducted an actual search. Yes, I'm sure his main directive from the Vulcan dip****$ was to shed salary, but not getting at least 2 firsts for 4 starters is really really bad.

holy crap there's a of stuff there to unpack

* as DB said, trying to blame Cronin for Olshey doing a crappy job is loopy. Olshey sure as hell didn't come across as a guy who would subordinate his opinion to any form of staff management democracy. We know enough about olshey-vision to have lots of confidence that original Nance trade, and just about every transaction, good & bad (mostly bad) in the Olshey era was Olshey diven
***********************************************

The ability to find a trade partner and execute a trade is where it becomes interesting regarding Cronin. One thing I’m not sure people understand about him is he is not some rube when it comes to orchestrating a trade. As Cronin explained to me in December, former GM Neil Olshey empowered him behind the scenes.

“There are certain people you have relationships with around the league, people you know who you can work with,” Cronin said. “So you talk about ideas, and as those conversations start, if they got to a certain point, I would connect with Neil (and say), ‘Hey, Neil, I talked to Team X, and there might be something with this guy, or that guy.’ Then Neil would say, ‘Go back to them; let’s ask if they will do this …'”

"So, have I done a deal by myself? No. But we never do it by ourselves,” Cronin said in December. “We are constantly talking and working together. But have I been a point man? Definitely. Many times.”

Also note worthy from the article

"Agents have told me that some front office executives feel as if Cronin got played in his first two trades, especially by the Clippers. Others inside the Blazers organization have told me the market for the Blazers’ players was low because the salaries didn’t match the production, and therefore Cronin did well"

If that doesn't sum up Portland front office in a nutshell,I don't know what does.


Anyways...I Was just reading this article and it reminded me of your guys' response to my assertions on Cronin being heavily included in all the olshey bs over the years. So, I just wanted to point out that I was not loopy and I was, in fact, RIGHT.

I will accept and-1s as contrition.

https://theathletic-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/theathletic.com/3321234/2022/05/18/trail-blazers-joe-cronin-draft/?amp=1&amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#amp_agsa_csa=46731806&amp_ct=1652985224964&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16529835562875&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2F3321234%2F2022%2F05%2F18%2Ftrail-blazers-joe-cronin-draft%2F

[Wizenheimer]

The ability to find a trade partner and execute a trade is where it becomes interesting regarding Cronin. One thing I’m not sure people understand about him is he is not some rube when it comes to orchestrating a trade. As Cronin explained to me in December, former GM Neil Olshey empowered him behind the scenes.

“There are certain people you have relationships with around the league, people you know who you can work with,” Cronin said. “So you talk about ideas, and as those conversations start, if they got to a certain point, I would connect with Neil (and say), ‘Hey, Neil, I talked to Team X, and there might be something with this guy, or that guy.’ Then Neil would say, ‘Go back to them; let’s ask if they will do this …'”

"So, have I done a deal by myself? No. But we never do it by ourselves,” Cronin said in December. “We are constantly talking and working together. But have I been a point man? Definitely. Many times.”

Also note worthy from the article

"Agents have told me that some front office executives feel as if Cronin got played in his first two trades, especially by the Clippers. Others inside the Blazers organization have told me the market for the Blazers’ players was low because the salaries didn’t match the production, and therefore Cronin did well"

If that doesn't sum up Portland front office in a nutshell,I don't know what does.


Anyways...I Was just reading this article and it reminded me of your guys' response to my assertions on Cronin being heavily included in all the olshey bs over the years. So, I just wanted to point out that I was not loopy and I was, in fact, RIGHT.

I will accept and-1s as contrition.

https://theathletic-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/theathletic.com/3321234/2022/05/18/trail-blazers-joe-cronin-draft/?amp=1&amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#amp_agsa_csa=46731806&amp_ct=1652985224964&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16529835562875&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2F3321234%2F2022%2F05%2F18%2Ftrail-blazers-joe-cronin-draft%2F

that article doesn't really seem to prove what you think it proves.

Cronin was the assistant GM and the cap-guy. I think he also spent time as the head of scouting. A lot of business was going to come across his desk. That would be normal. Olshey was accused of a lot of flaws but I can't recall micro-managing being one of them

we'd need to know what trades he was "point-man" for. Were they trades that were completed or were they trades that Olshey vetoed? What you omitted from that article was the part that said it was Cronin who was always advocating taking more and bigger risks; but that ran contrary to Olshey's style. Maybe it was Cronin who was point-man in the negotiations for Paul George and Jimmy Butler, and that Cronin wanted to include CJ, but of course, Olshey held CJ untouchable

I had to laugh about this part:

"Agents have told me that some front office executives feel as if Cronin got played in his first two trades, especially by the Clippers. Others inside the Blazers organization have told me the market for the Blazers’ players was low because the salaries didn’t match the production, and therefore Cronin did well"

Quick wrote an article a few weeks ago in which he said it was front-office executives who said Cronin got 'played'. I read it and the implication was that Quick talked directly to the executives. Now, we find out that was an embellishment because it was only "agents" who told him this. So the obvious question is: was it agents-plural or just one agent? And if it was more than one, was it the agents for RoCo and CJ trying to prop up the value of their clients that the real-world trades damaged?
************************************************************************

I'm not sold on Cronin at all. I've said that several times. I think he might have been able to get a little better value in the deadline trades, but I also recognize I don't know what restrictions the Vulcans had placed on his deals. And I'm willing to consider he might have some of the responsibility for the decade of Olshey-mismanagement. But the 3 month temper tantrum about Cronin seems to be resting on two pillars:

* the blind-faith conviction that the players traded had more value simply because the return was so much less than many wanted to see

* the perfect storm of bad luck that allowed the Pelicans to make the playoffs and screw the Blazers out of the 11th pick

maybe I'm not so upset about the deadline trades because I was, and still am, convinced that the Blazer players traded did not have much positive value.

* RoCo was on an expiring contract and at the time was averaging less than 8 points and 6 assists while shooting 38% on FG's
* CJ & Powell were two undersized high-usage/bad-defense guards with negative contracts
* Nance is a perpetually injured forward who was injured at the time of the trade

add to all that the simple fact that those were 3 starters and a primary backup who had 'led' the Blazers to a record of 13 games UNDER .500 at the time of the trade. If those guys were so good why were the Blazers so bad without a healthy Dame? (answer: because those guys aren't good enough to significantly alter the trajectory of the team)

(just a note: in the 26 regular season games CJ played for the Pels their record was 13-13. In the 26 games before CJ arrived, the Pels were 14-12)

and while it sucks the Blazers didn't get the immediate lottery pick for CJ, the reality is that players at CJ's level are never traded for guaranteed 1st's. There are always protections attached so there is always the risk of non-conveyance.

[Case2012]

The main point I was conveying is that you and others said Cronin probably wasn't involved in those moves and that I was "loopy"for placing part of the blame on him but by Cronin's own admission he was. It's pretty straight forward. I take it personally when people say **** like that.

[Dame Lizard]

The main point I was conveying is that you and others said Cronin probably wasn't involved in those moves and that I was "loopy"for placing part of the blame on him but by Cronin's own admission he was. It's pretty straight forward. I take it personally when people say **** like that.

I don't think we're saying that he wasn't involved at all, I think we're saying he obviously had a (by far) minority say in the trades, thus can't be blamed (unless you have some insider knowledge).

What's he going to say to his boss "only an idiot would make this trade Neil, don't do it. Are you an idiot?".

When he's not in charge, his influence can only go so far. Maybe he loved the trades, maybe he hated them.

[Case2012]

The main point I was conveying is that you and others said Cronin probably wasn't involved in those moves and that I was "loopy"for placing part of the blame on him but by Cronin's own admission he was. It's pretty straight forward. I take it personally when people say **** like that.

I don't think we're saying that he wasn't involved at all, I think we're saying he obviously had a (by far) minority say in the trades, thus can't be blamed (unless you have some insider knowledge).

What's he going to say to his boss "only an idiot would make this trade Neil, don't do it. Are you an idiot?".

When he's not in charge, his influence can only go so far. Maybe he loved the trades, maybe he hated them.

He was clearly quoted as being the point man on a lot of trades and initiating a lot of the conversations with other teams, which goes against the narrative that most people, including myself that Olshey just rammed through these ridiculous trades and signings by himself. I don’t have the insider knowledge, but quick does and it’s written in the article. I quoted the excerpt, how is that not clear?

[Wizenheimer]

He was clearly quoted as being the point man on a lot of trades and initiating a lot of the conversations with other teams, which goes against the narrative that most people, including myself that Olshey just rammed through these ridiculous trades and signings by himself. I don’t have the insider knowledge, but quick does and it’s written in the article. I quoted the excerpt, how is that not clear?

what is clear is that he was in the front office during all of Olshey's tenure. What is not clear at all is how many of the moves made in that time Cronin approved of and wanted Portland to do. We just don't know. About the only indicator we have is that he was the one willing to take risks during Olshey's risk-averse tenure.

maybe he was a big influence for the crappy deals. Maybe he wasn't. What we do know, for damn sure, is that he did not value CJ, Powell, RoCo, and Nance anywhere close to as high as Olshey did. And apparently, neither did the rest of the league. I have enough circumstantial reason to not blame him for Olshey moves as you have to blame him.

Cronin was in the front office (and IIRC chief of scouting) when interim GM Chad Buchannen traded Gerald Wallace for the 6th pick. And Cronin was there when the Blazers apparently settled on Dame as the primary target of that pick. Maybe he's mostly responsible for Lillard being a Blazer. But we don't know that either

[Case2012]

Well, I’m not mad at the guy for taking risks, but he should have made more calculated risks. Not securing the Lakers pick was an epic failure. If the Pelicans miss the playoffs they keep their lotto pick, if they push out LA and make it to the 8th seed they get LA’s pick. That’s a very calculated risk. win-win move for them. Meanwhile Cronin accepted a distant first instead of getting a second first this year. Even if he traded for the lakers pick and it ended up being the 15th pick that’s a lot more useful in moves this off-season. It was pretty dumb.