Simons and Brogdon

[zzaj]

Because it's all hypotheticals...Something surrounding Simons for Brogdon?

Simons is obviously a lot younger, and might be a nice injection of instant offense to add to Boston's defensive oriented guards. Brogdon is the better player overall, has more size, and might be seen as a 'win now' player by Lillard.

Thoughts both ways? Yays? Nays? Smart-alec remarks?

I'll caveat this by saying, I really doubt Boston is going to part with Brogdon.

[m0ng0]

Nope

[zzaj]

Nope

A+ post. Thanks for your effort and informed input.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I still think Simons can be an All-Star player. Probably in the East, on a team who can provide additional playmaking and defense to cover him, but he could be a 25 ppg scorer.

[Village Idiot]

Brogdon is old, slow and declining. Simons is still improving. Not even close in valude in my opinion.

[m0ng0]

Nope

A+ post. Thanks for your effort and informed input.

D+ trade
Dude is hurt, he is making 22 per year? He is 30 and most likely his skills will decline. Not many teams win 3 games straight when their 6th man plays less than 26 minutes total and scores 2 points. Boston didn't seem to miss a beat when he was not playing or playing very little.

NOPE!

[zzaj]

Nope

A+ post. Thanks for your effort and informed input.

D+ trade
Dude is hurt, he is making 22 per year? He is 30 and most likely his skills will decline. Not many teams win 3 games straight when their 6th man plays less than 26 minutes total and scores 2 points. Boston didn't seem to miss a beat when he was not playing or playing very little.

NOPE!

Thanks for actually putting in a little effort.

[DusterBuster]

Count me in with the chorus here that I have little interest in Brogdon, especially not for Simons straight up.

[zzaj]

Brogdon is old, slow and declining. Simons is still improving. Not even close in valude in my opinion.

Well the point of my post isn't value for value, as I thought I made clear.

Brogdon got hurt in the POs and that's worth noting, given it might be a tendon injury. But even at 30 he's a better player than Simons in just about every metric except age...including shooting, playmaking, defense, FT rate, win shares, etc. Even at 30 if Brogdon falls off a bit in the last two years of his contract, I would argue that he'll be at least as good as what Simons brings to the team even if Simons improves.

And I'm not here to really defend this trade. I'm just pointing out that I think it's closer than people might think. There might have to be value added either way, depending on which side you take.

[GEE]

MARK MY WORDS:

It won't be long before we start seeing Simons outperform Dame on the court, IF both players are on the roster to start the season. Maybe the biggest reason I can think of to trade Simons, cause we can't have this happening, can we?

In regards to that... Change is hard, and I don't think Dame really wants to leave at any cost. Don't think he'd ever go through with it (Asking to be traded), even it if meant almost assuring himself a ring. But I do really hope it happens, and soon.


Just so tired of people crapping on this kid, often with criticisms they wouldn't dare judge Dame with. Can't wait to move on (or off the treadmill), and watch Simons blow up once he finally gets out of Dame's shadow.

[JRoy]

Simons is the only sizable contract POR has to move.

If the decision is made to compete he needs to go out in a package for a star.

Brogdon is pretend to contend move that addresses none of our many issues, gets older and more injury prone to boot.

DOA.

[zzaj]

Simons is the only sizable contract POR has to move.

If the decision is made to compete he needs to go out in a package for a star.

Brogdon is pretend to contend move that addresses none of our many issues, gets older and more injury prone to boot.

DOA.

While I would like a Simons trade to translate into a “star”, I think we’ve all seen that that’s not going to happen, if these boards are anything close to reality. Somehow turning Simons into an existing star player is unrealistic and wishful thinking.

And I disagree 100% with your notion that a Brogdon trade wouldn’t address “our many issues”. How about, better shooting, better defense, better rebounding to name 3?

Lastly, show me a realistic trade that moves the Blazers into non-“pretend to contend” mode? I’ll wait. If the Blazers are trying to get a surefire contender with the pieces they have now not named #3 pick and Sharpe then they will be relegated to doing nothing—which is fine.

[zzaj]

MARK MY WORDS:

It won't be long before we start seeing Simons outperform Dame on the court, IF both players are on the roster to start the season. Maybe the biggest reason I can think of to trade Simons, cause we can't have this happening, can we?

In regards to that... Change is hard, and I don't think Dame really wants to leave at any cost. Don't think he'd ever go through with it (Asking to be traded), even it if meant almost assuring himself a ring. But I do really hope it happens, and soon.


Just so tired of people crapping on this kid, often with criticisms they wouldn't dare judge Dame with. Can't wait to move on (or off the treadmill), and watch Simons blow up once he finally gets out of Dame's shadow.

Why? We’ve already seen Simons have games that are better than Lillard…but that doesn’t mean he’s a better player. Ask any GM which player they’d rather have on their team for the duration of their current contract, Lillard or Simons…and guess what 100% of them would say?

I’m not discounting Simons. I’m calling out Simons for what he is—a volume scorer. Will he get better at running an offense? Sure, probably a bit…he might end up averaging an assist or 2 more per game, but he’ll never be the starting PG for a good team. Will he ever be even an average defender? Maybe. I’ll even give him the benefit of the doubt and say, yeah. But nobody is ever going to trade for Simons because they want to upgrade their defense. And it’s pretty rare for players to improve on defense to that degree. Will he get better as a scorer? Probably not a lot…he’s already playing 35+ minutes a game with a 25 usg rate. The only way he’ll improve much is if he learns to get to the line more. Just like CJ he’s bad at that.

And guess what else? Simons is now an NBA veteran. He’ll be starting his 6th NBA season in the fall. He’ll only be 24, but we’re likely starting to see what his ceiling is going to be.

Now I could be way wrong. Simons could buck all trends, cast history aside and somehow turn into a 28/6/9 Allstar who goes to the line 10 times per game…But the chances are far greater that he remains similar to what he’s shown in his 5 years in the league—a poor defending, volume shooter that’ll be somewhere around 23/3/5 from here on out.

[JRoy]

Simons is the only sizable contract POR has to move.

If the decision is made to compete he needs to go out in a package for a star.

Brogdon is pretend to contend move that addresses none of our many issues, gets older and more injury prone to boot.

DOA.

While I would like a Simons trade to translate into a “star”, I think we’ve all seen that that’s not going to happen, if these boards are anything close to reality. Somehow turning Simons into an existing star player is unrealistic and wishful thinking.


And I disagree 100% with your notion that a Brogdon trade wouldn’t address “our many issues”. How about, better shooting, better defense, better rebounding to name 3?

Lastly, show me a realistic trade that moves the Blazers into non-“pretend to contend” mode? I’ll wait. If the Blazers are trying to get a surefire contender with the pieces they have now not named #3 pick and Sharpe then they will be relegated to doing nothing—which is fine.

How about availability? Brogdon misses a ton of games every year it seems.

Also I never said Simons would return a star. Simons would have to be packaged with picks to pull a star. He certainly isn’t worth one on his own.

Brogdon is better than Simons but he comes with issues of his own.

[BlazersBroncos]

Comparing Simons to Dame is equivalent of comparing MJ to Jamal Crawford.

There is no comparison to be had.

[zzaj]

Simons is the only sizable contract POR has to move.

If the decision is made to compete he needs to go out in a package for a star.

Brogdon is pretend to contend move that addresses none of our many issues, gets older and more injury prone to boot.

DOA.

While I would like a Simons trade to translate into a “star”, I think we’ve all seen that that’s not going to happen, if these boards are anything close to reality. Somehow turning Simons into an existing star player is unrealistic and wishful thinking.


And I disagree 100% with your notion that a Brogdon trade wouldn’t address “our many issues”. How about, better shooting, better defense, better rebounding to name 3?

Lastly, show me a realistic trade that moves the Blazers into non-“pretend to contend” mode? I’ll wait. If the Blazers are trying to get a surefire contender with the pieces they have now not named #3 pick and Sharpe then they will be relegated to doing nothing—which is fine.

How about availability? Brogdon misses a ton of games every year it seems.

Also I never said Simons would return a star. Simons would have to be packaged with picks to pull a star. He certainly isn’t worth one on his own.

Brogdon is better than Simons but he comes with issues of his own.

Availability is certainly a concern, especially with Brogdon's PO injury. For their careers so far, if you only count seasons that they've had meaningful minutes (20+) and not riding the pine as backups, Simons is averaging about 63 games per season and Brogdon is at 58. So yeah, that would be something to certainly weigh in a potential trade.

But again, I don't think Boston is going to trade Brogdon fresh off of his 6th man of the year award...especially given his value contract.

[JRoy]

While I would like a Simons trade to translate into a “star”, I think we’ve all seen that that’s not going to happen, if these boards are anything close to reality. Somehow turning Simons into an existing star player is unrealistic and wishful thinking.


And I disagree 100% with your notion that a Brogdon trade wouldn’t address “our many issues”. How about, better shooting, better defense, better rebounding to name 3?

Lastly, show me a realistic trade that moves the Blazers into non-“pretend to contend” mode? I’ll wait. If the Blazers are trying to get a surefire contender with the pieces they have now not named #3 pick and Sharpe then they will be relegated to doing nothing—which is fine.

How about availability? Brogdon misses a ton of games every year it seems.

Also I never said Simons would return a star. Simons would have to be packaged with picks to pull a star. He certainly isn’t worth one on his own.

Brogdon is better than Simons but he comes with issues of his own.

Availability is certainly a concern, especially with Brogdon's PO injury. For their careers so far, if you only count seasons that they've had meaningful minutes (20+) and not riding the pine as backups, Simons is averaging about 63 games per season and Brogdon is at 58. So yeah, that would be something to certainly weigh in a potential trade.

But again, I don't think Boston is going to trade Brogdon fresh off of his 6th man of the year award...especially given his value contract.

Maybe not.

POR should certainly not be looking at Brogdon.

Not sure any single player can mend the team’s woes but he is certainly not that guy.

[mighty_duck]

And I disagree 100% with your notion that a Brogdon trade wouldn’t address “our many issues”. How about, better shooting, better defense, better rebounding to name 3?

This isn't a bad trade proposal, but I still wouldn't do it.

Brogdon isn't necessarily a better shooter. Yes, he shot better than Ant this year, but if you look at a three year window, Ant comes out ahead:
Simons 3pt% - .425 / .406 / .377
Brogdon 3pt% .388 / .312 / .444

His defense and rebounding is indeed better, but he's not exactly a stopper on D, or a double-double threat. It is a minor upgrade.
And he has been pretty fragile, even before hitting age 30. Chances are he'll be even more fragile in the future.

[Pattycakes]

If this was nba 2k20… maybe

[zzaj]

Thanks for weighing in...all that chose to do so! Many of you brought up good points with regard to the general idea...