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Getting rid of Darius Miles. I don't think it would be that hard... Why? One word. Thomas.

New York will be over the cap in 2009/2010 anyway. How bad can taking on Darius Miles contract really be?

New York's Assets Portland wants.
Marbury and Rose's contract. (Marbury would get the boot via Steve Francis.)

Portland's Assets New York might want.
Jarret Jack (Replaced via Rudy Fernandez)
1st round Pick (We have a full roster anyway with tons of youth...)
3 2nd round picks (Look up..)

We could package Miles for Rose or we can package Lafrentz and Miles for Marbury then include assets as incentive for them to take it. Whatever it takes I'm pretty sure this is going to be KP's #1 goal this offseason...

Some of you guys react to Miles as if he had bird flu. I don't think we need to give up assets to ship him off the team.

I'd hope for a straight up Jerome James or Malik swap. No need to give up assets just to get rid of him. Both have one less year on contract. Malik would be a nice veteran to have off the bench, helping the younger players.

Jerome James has 2 years and a player option for a 3rd year which I'm sure he would pick up. He doesn't work.

kinch wrote:Some of you guys react to Miles as if he had bird flu. I don't think we need to give up assets to ship him off the team.

+1 No way I give up Jack AND a 1st rd pick just to rid ourselves of Miles.. Hes not doing any harm.. I doubt Miles gets moved at all this season anyways

kinch wrote:Some of you guys react to Miles as if he had bird flu. I don't think we need to give up assets to ship him off the team.

There are two different ways to interpret what you're saying.

1. We don't need to get Miles off the team, especially if it costs us assets. - I agree with this statement. He's sitting in a dark room away from the team and that's just fine.

or, you could be saying

2. If we're getting rid of Miles, we can do it without it costing us assets. - I disagree. Nobody wants to touch Miles. His talent alone was enough to make teams trade for him despite his attitude. But now that he's been near-crippled for 2 years, the word "potential" has been erased from any Miles discussions.

If it is deemed necessary to get rid of Miles, it will cost the Blazers more than they will receive. And to me, that's not worth it.

yeah, you can say miles hasn't performed as expected, but honestly and objectively he isn't doing any real harm, so splitting the team just for the fun of trading him would be the worst thing the blazers ever do.

Miles would be great to get rid of but I don't feel we should be in a huge hurry to dump him..This summer would be the most likely time to make a deal for him..He'd have only two years left on his deal and be easier and less costly to move...

kinch wrote:Some of you guys react to Miles as if he had bird flu. I don't think we need to give up assets to ship him off the team.

I am probably a bigger Miles supporter than anybody else here, but I think you're wrong. He hasn't played in two years and wasn't that great to begin with (but better than he ever got credit for being). At his best, he'd be a little bit better than Outlaw, Jones, and Webster are now. That's not much of an asset. His contract is big and his potential isn't.

I'd give up future picks to shed his contract, assuming the team is serious about using cap space to acquire veteran talent. Ultimately, I don't think Pritchard and co. agree with me on this, and we're probably stuck with Miles. I'm fine with that. I hope Darius comes back and surprises everybody.

Don't we still have enough cap space without sending Miles away? I thought our cap space plan wasn't dependent on getting Miles to retire or getting the Knicks to swallow him whole. I agree that we're not getting rid of Miles without making the deal very, very rich with young blood.

kinch wrote:Don't we still have enough cap space without sending Miles away? I thought our cap space plan wasn't dependent on getting Miles to retire or getting the Knicks to swallow him whole. I agree that we're not getting rid of Miles without making the deal very, very rich with young blood.

ok...start with the "locked in contracts":

Miles..........9 million
Pryzbilla.....6.86
LMA...........5.84
Oden..........5.36
Roy............3.91
Sergio........1.58
Rudy..........1.1
-----------------------
.................33.65 million

now there are the 2 guys KP signed to new contracts this summer, Blake & Outlaw. Outlaw's seems to be known at 4 million. Blake is a little less clear, although it's been listed at 4.9 million. And I think both players, especially, outlaw have demonstrated their value and will be kept.

so that would be 8.9 million added to 33.65 million bringing the salary base up to 42.55 million.

Then there's the issue of james jones. Again, I believe he's demonstrated his value and that portland would really like to keep him. He can of course opt-out, but I'm going to assume that both him and KP will be 'reasonable' and reach agreement. Let's say for 5 million a year...approximately.

that would put salaries at 47.55 million. And that's for 10 players.

Then there's the issue of the 3 third year players: webster, frye, & jack. It's a pressing issue, in my view, if you believe in the cap space plan, because of the size of the cap-holds the CBA mandates for them if they enter the 2009 off-season as RFA.

It's possible that Webster will have his contract extended this summer. However, assuming KP re-signs Jones, I'm not convinced there's enough room on the roster for both webster & jones. But so the martell lovers won't squawk, I'll assume Martell is extended at...oh....6 million/yr

that bumps the salaries to 53.55 million.

Then there's the issue of Frye and Jack. Since he's despised here, I'll say Jack is traded or renounced. Frye is a little trickier. I think he has some value to portland. He is a better rebounder then LMA, can hit mid-range jumpers, and can play either C/PF. Assume he's re-signed for 4 million/yr (and if it's not frye, then it would be that hypothetical banger/rebounder everybody is clamoring for)

now it's 57.55 million for 12 players.

Then there's the issue of green, mcroberts, kaponen, freeland. I'll assume the only one they keep is Kaponen. Cap-hold is 886,000. And let's not forget this year's draft pick...about 1 million

That brings the grand total to 59.4 million with an expected salary cap of 60-61 million

Then you can start subtracting players. Dump Webster, Frye/rebounder, and Kaponen, and Portland has 10-12 million in cap space. But Webster might be pretty good by 2009 and might be a big loss. Maybe Jones would be a better dumpee, but that decision may have to be made this summer before it's certain how good Martell will be.

And 10 million won't be enough to sign a max-contract player. To get that much space, it would have to be something like blake, webster, frye, & kaponen for that max player.

That cap-space is going to come at a steep price.

^^^Kaponen doesn't count against the cap unless we bring him over, which is quite unlikely. I think he gets stashed in Europe for another 2 year or so. Also, I don't think you can count Outlaw or Blake against the cap unless we resign them--I believe they will be unrestricted free agents, which means they count as nothing against the cap.

mojomarc wrote:^^^Kaponen doesn't count against the cap unless we bring him over, which is quite unlikely. I think he gets stashed in Europe for another 2 year or so. Also, I don't think you can count Outlaw or Blake against the cap unless we resign them--I believe they will be unrestricted free agents, which means they count as nothing against the cap.

you're wrong on both of your assertions unless you're assuming portland will renounce all rights to the players.

as far as Kaponen (from Larry Coon's FAQ):

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

43. Do draft picks count against the team's salary cap? If so, how much?

Unsigned first round picks are included in team salary immediately upon their selection in the draft. They count as 100% of the scale salary for that pick, unless there is a verbal agreement for a higher salary. An incident occurred prior to the 1997-98 season when Vancouver's first round pick, Antonio Daniels, revealed in an interview that he and the team had verbally agreed to a contract starting at the maximum salary (120% of the scale amount). Since verbal agreements apply to the salary cap, the league then changed the team's cap figure from the scale amount to 120% of scale.
Once a first round pick signs a contract, his actual salary is included in the team salary, of course.

Unsigned second round picks are not included in team salary. This is a loophole that Houston once tried to use by trading a first round pick for a second round pick in order to clear cap room.

As described in question number 71, the trade value of an unsigned first or second round draft pick is always $0.

and all of a team's free agents count as formula caculated cap-holds against a team's cap until they sign new contracts or are renounced:

30. How much do free agents count against their team's salary cap?.........

note: I won't copy the entire section here...it's quite long and the format would get a bit bollixed

however, there is a provision for outlaw and a different one for blake.

Outlaw will be a full bird rights free agent and his salary will be less then the average salary. That means his cap-hold will be 200% of the just completed year's salary, which will be 8 million dollars.

Blake will be an early bird free agent with less then the average salary, so his cap-hold will be 130% of the just completed salary, which will be 5.2 million.

So that means the two players will represent 13.2 million in cap-holds unless portland either picks-up their option year or renounces the rights to them and loses them to another team...without any compensation.

Portland...or any team for that matter...will not be able to time or sequence extensions of their own players after signing any free agents. The CBA precludes it, as it was intended to do.

I'm not sure that everybody understands this yet. Take a look at the portland roster (and assuming miles is still on the books) and especially at these 5 players: blake-outlaw-jones-webster-frye. In order for portland to have any substantail cap-space, 3 of those 5 players will have to be gone. It's simple math.

Wizenheimer wrote:

mojomarc wrote:^^^Kaponen doesn't count against the cap unless we bring him over, which is quite unlikely. I think he gets stashed in Europe for another 2 year or so. Also, I don't think you can count Outlaw or Blake against the cap unless we resign them--I believe they will be unrestricted free agents, which means they count as nothing against the cap.

you're wrong on both of your assertions unless you're assuming portland will renounce all rights to the players.

I think that's fairly likely, unless we trade our first round pick this year and next. One or the other is extremely likely to happen (Blake being renounced being the likeliest IMO).

as far as Kaponen (from Larry Coon's FAQ):

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

43. Do draft picks count against the team's salary cap? If so, how much?

Unsigned first round picks are included in team salary immediately upon their selection in the draft. They count as 100% of the scale salary for that pick, unless there is a verbal agreement for a higher salary. An incident occurred prior to the 1997-98 season when Vancouver's first round pick, Antonio Daniels, revealed in an interview that he and the team had verbally agreed to a contract starting at the maximum salary (120% of the scale amount). Since verbal agreements apply to the salary cap, the league then changed the team's cap figure from the scale amount to 120% of scale.
Once a first round pick signs a contract, his actual salary is included in the team salary, of course.

Unsigned second round picks are not included in team salary. This is a loophole that Houston once tried to use by trading a first round pick for a second round pick in order to clear cap room.

As described in question number 71, the trade value of an unsigned first or second round draft pick is always $0.

Why did you bother to quote all of that just to confirm that I was right that PetKo doesn't count against the cap unless we bring him over?

I'm not sure that everybody understands this yet. Take a look at the portland roster (and assuming miles is still on the books) and especially at these 5 players: blake-outlaw-jones-webster-frye. In order for portland to have any substantail cap-space, 3 of those 5 players will have to be gone. It's simple math.

Two players would have to be gone just to sign our first round draft picks anyway, assuming we took them, so this really shouldn't be a shock.

mojomarc wrote:

Why did you bother to quote all of that just to confirm that I was right that PetKo doesn't count against the cap unless we bring him over?
.

what??...he does count against the cap. He is an unsigned 1st round pick and his cap-hold is a scale amount

Unsigned first round picks are included in team salary immediately upon their selection in the draft. They count as 100% of the scale salary for that pick,

I don't know where you get that he doesn't count against the cap from that.

mojomarc wrote:

I'm not sure that everybody understands this yet. Take a look at the portland roster (and assuming miles is still on the books) and especially at these 5 players: blake-outlaw-jones-webster-frye. In order for portland to have any substantail cap-space, 3 of those 5 players will have to be gone. It's simple math.

Two players would have to be gone just to sign our first round draft picks anyway, assuming we took them, so this really shouldn't be a shock

green and mcroberts could easily be gone to make room for the 2008 pick and fernandez. Raef's departure would make room for the 2009 pick if portland uses it. It's one thing to dump LaFrentz, a little different to dump Outlaw, Blake, and Webster.

Wizenheimer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



green and mcroberts could easily be gone to make room for the 2008 pick and fernandez. Raef's departure would make room for the 2009 pick if portland uses it. It's one thing to dump LaFrentz, a little different to dump Outlaw, Blake, and Webster.

My point was that we're going to have to dump players no matter what.

As far as PetKo, for some reason I was thinking he was a second rounder.

kinch wrote:Some of you guys react to Miles as if he had bird flu. I don't think we need to give up assets to ship him off the team.

Miles used racial slurs at the coach and quit on the team
at times with his play. Thats worse then the bird flu!!!!!!!!

Trade him at the first chance you get. Its better for the
Blazers and its better for Miles. Let him goto a team that
has the mins for him to play. The Blazers have better SFs.

Mr Odd wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Miles used racial slurs at the coach and quit on the team
at times with his play. Thats worse then the bird flu!!!!!!!!

Trade him at the first chance you get. Its better for the
Blazers and its better for Miles. Let him goto a team that
has the mins for him to play. The Blazers have better SFs.

What racial slurs did he use?

Nonstop wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




What racial slurs did he use?

The only thing I can remember is that Miles called Mo Cheeks an Uncle Tom...The bigger issue with Miles was the fact that he wouldn't give 110%...He would really just go through the motions and never seem to have the drive to be an all-star or be anything more then a roll player..

My only thing with Miles is give him a shot..He couldn't be any worse then LaFrentz and could even make an other team take a chance on him and trade for him..Just suiting him on the bench could get it done....

Mr Odd wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




Trade him at the first chance you get. Its better for the
Blazers and its better for Miles. Let him goto a team that
has the mins for him to play. The Blazers have better SFs.

So who are you going to give up just to get Miles off the team?