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Attention Mojo (and others): Sergio Article

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Attention Mojo (and others): Sergio Article

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:20 pm
by Wizenheimer
The Tribune has a good write-up on Sergio that implies he'll be around for a while.

There's also hints that sometime in the future, nate and KP may be at odds over Sergio and his playing time. maybe

http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=120156047043640000

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:30 pm
by mojomarc
I think this just about nails what us close followers of the team have been saying for a long time. It certainly doesn't provide any new insights as to why Jack gets played when he messes up fast breaks and turns the ball over so much.

Hopefully Sergio can grow into the promise that KP sees, because at that point Nate won't have any choice.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:47 pm
by Billy
Good article. I particularly liked the part where he talked about how risk doesn't necessarily have to equal turnovers. I'm glad to see Sergio understands that and look forward to him improving there.

To me, the thing that is probably most holding Sergio back at this point is his offensive game. Defensively he's not great, but he's at least learning to get after it a bit and to know when to gamble. Offensively though he has to get a better shot from mid range out, and he has to start drawing contact when he gets under the hoop. There are probably 3-4 times at least per game where Sergio can get to the rim, but either dribbles under the hoop and out or otherwise finds a way to not go up with it. I'm fine with that on occasion, but in general if they are that close to the hoop you need to go up with it.

I think next year we can really start talking about what kind of player Sergio is. Nate's certainly growing to trust him more, but clearly he's being judged at least in part by his similarities (or in this case lack there of) to Jack. The writing seems pretty clear to me from McMillan, Jack and Sergio are even defensively and shooting wise for the most part, but Sergio needs to look for his own shot a little more. If Sergio makes it a threat to lay the ball in as much as it is a threat for him to kick it out to a wide open man the game will open up for him. Right now McMillan sees the value in a guy that can look for his own shot.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:58 pm
by BlackMamba
But it

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:01 pm
by Wizenheimer
Billy wrote:Good article. I particularly liked the part where he talked about how risk doesn't necessarily have to equal turnovers. I'm glad to see Sergio understands that and look forward to him improving there.

To me, the thing that is probably most holding Sergio back at this point is his offensive game. Defensively he's not great, but he's at least learning to get after it a bit and to know when to gamble. Offensively though he has to get a better shot from mid range out, and he has to start drawing contact when he gets under the hoop. There are probably 3-4 times at least per game where Sergio can get to the rim, but either dribbles under the hoop and out or otherwise finds a way to not go up with it. I'm fine with that on occasion, but in general if they are that close to the hoop you need to go up with it.

I think next year we can really start talking about what kind of player Sergio is. Nate's certainly growing to trust him more, but clearly he's being judged at least in part by his similarities (or in this case lack there of) to Jack. The writing seems pretty clear to me from McMillan, Jack and Sergio are even defensively and shooting wise for the most part, but Sergio needs to look for his own shot a little more. If Sergio makes it a threat to lay the ball in as much as it is a threat for him to kick it out to a wide open man the game will open up for him. Right now McMillan sees the value in a guy that can look for his own shot.


I think you're correct about Sergio's offense, and I'll add to it.

Sergio does the same thing Blake does...drive into the lane and then bring it back out. Rarely do either look to score. Jack is the change-up from that style and I think that's a big reason why Nate plays jack more. Jack, like roy, isn't afraid to get clobbered and go to the FT line. If Sergio can get a little stonger and start drawing some fouls...and sinking the free throws...he'll likely get more burn.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:08 pm
by Wizenheimer
mojomarc wrote:I think this just about nails what us close followers of the team have been saying for a long time. It certainly doesn't provide any new insights as to why Jack gets played when he messes up fast breaks and turns the ball over so much.

Hopefully Sergio can grow into the promise that KP sees, because at that point Nate won't have any choice.


look...in that last thread about sergio, I wasn't disputing his talent, just his consistency. He's played well before and then sunk back into bad game stretches.

I'd really like for him to get it together just like Martell and Travis have. Right now, with the way Sergio is playing...and Jack for that matter...it means that Blake is nearly indispensible. Now I like Blake a lot for what he does, but when he's an integral part of a team, I think it means there may be a bit of a weakness on that team.

Sergio needs to get a bit bigger and stronger, but at 21 that should happen. But most of all he needs to improve his shooting. And for chrissakes somebody needs to explain the benefits of arch to him.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:22 pm
by mojomarc
Wizenheimer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



look...in that last thread about sergio, I wasn't disputing his talent, just his consistency. He's played well before and then sunk back into bad game stretches.

I'd really like for him to get it together just like Martell and Travis have. Right now, with the way Sergio is playing...and Jack for that matter...it means that Blake is nearly indispensible. Now I like Blake a lot for what he does, but when he's an integral part of a team, I think it means there may be a bit of a weakness on that team.

Sergio needs to get a bit bigger and stronger, but at 21 that should happen. But most of all he needs to improve his shooting. And for chrissakes somebody needs to explain the benefits of arch to him.


:rofl:

We should make Sergio go to McDonald's every day so he can learn what an arch looks like :)

You're pretty much right, although I disagree about how much Sergio pulls out from the rim once he gets there. Sergio will go for the layup more aggressively than Blake IMO. But imagine how good he can be if he can just learn to consistently nail that shot.

The good thing is that he's a streaky shooter now that can have lights-out games from the outside. Players who are streaky can often be coached on the things that they're doing right and can smooth out the streakiness. He's very young, one of the youngest players on the team, and obviously he has some talent that could be very useful to us, so spending more time with him and playing the Outlaw/Webster game is certainly in our best interests.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:12 pm
by PDXKnight
I'm hoping Nate will come to his senses and bench Jack in favor of Sergio. Sergio makes the team better while Jack constantly makes this team worse, especially down the stretch when he's needed the most. Now I'm not saying that Nate should start playing sergio 48 minutes a night but do think that 18 MPG would really help him along in his development process.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:35 pm
by Wizenheimer
Oden2 wrote:I'm hoping Nate will come to his senses and bench Jack in favor of Sergio. Sergio makes the team better while Jack constantly makes this team worse, especially down the stretch when he's needed the most. Now I'm not saying that Nate should start playing sergio 48 minutes a night but do think that 18 MPG would really help him along in his development process.


I'm curious how you have quantified how Jack makes the team worse down the stretch.

Portland has been a very good 4th quarter and 'down the stretch team' this year, especially considering their youth. Jack is almost always in the line-up for those periods of time. I seriously doubt portland could have won all those close games with jack "making them worse".

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:08 am
by mojomarc
Wizenheimer wrote:Portland has been a very good 4th quarter and 'down the stretch team' this year, especially considering their youth. Jack is almost always in the line-up for those periods of time. I seriously doubt portland could have won all those close games with jack "making them worse".


Jack also almost single-handedly blew the game at Philadelphia with his brutal 0-5 shooting/5 turnover fourth quarter performance. It's not like everything is sunshine and lollipops with him.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:27 am
by listerine
mojomarc wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Jack also almost single-handedly blew the game at Philadelphia with his brutal 0-5 shooting/5 turnover fourth quarter performance. It's not like everything is sunshine and lollipops with him.


I'll admit that when Jack goes cold, he's awful. And when he's hot, he's just "okay."

BUT it's become obvious that he fits in well with this team. Better than Sergio (for the time being at least). I still have hopes that Sergio is one of our future PGs. He has a ceiling that's far far above Jacks. But at this time, Jack is the better player on the floor in the fourth quarter.

Why? Because Roy is most effective when the ball is in his hands and he's distributing. Since Blake and Sergio are best when they're distributing, their games fall off when Roy is in. When playing with Roy, Sergio is rarely effective. Blake becomes a spot up shooter (which is not needed in the fourth because Jones is always playing).

Of the three PGs, Jack is the only one who can create his own shot. He's the only one good at penetrating and drawing the foul. And he's adequate as a spot-up shooter.

Sergio will one day pass Jack. But the fans who want Nate's head for not playing Sergio seem to only focus on the 3-5 games where Sergio has been awesome. But there have been another 30 or so games where he has been "eh."

His time will come if he keeps working.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:09 am
by Wizenheimer
mojomarc wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Jack also almost single-handedly blew the game at Philadelphia with his brutal 0-5 shooting/5 turnover fourth quarter performance. It's not like everything is sunshine and lollipops with him.


jack had 4 turnovers in that entire game which makes 5 in the 4th quarter statistically unlikely. He had the same number as steve blake and only 1 more then brandon roy who had 3. That was a team-wide meltdown in that game and blaming jack for it is simply off-base.

I didn't say that Jack was Mr Lollypop. I was just wondering how it was that jack "constantly made the team worse, especially down the stretch" as was asserted. A 21-6 record over the last 27 games, when the blazers have played so well down the stretch with Jack on the floor seems to refute the assertion. But maybe I'm missing something.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:17 am
by PDXKnight
Wizenheimer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I'm curious how you have quantified how Jack makes the team worse down the stretch.

Portland has been a very good 4th quarter and 'down the stretch team' this year, especially considering their youth. Jack is almost always in the line-up for those periods of time. I seriously doubt portland could have won all those close games with jack "making them worse".


Can you honestly say that Jack made them better when he was on the floor? When I say down the stretch, I was thinking about his near fatal turnover late in the Atlanta game and he's definitely had his share of stupid turnovers in general. If you think Jack's actually helping this team, you need to start watching Blazer games because any Blazer fan would know that Jack is a turnover machine and has hurt this team more them help them this season. The team as a whole has been great, but Jack hasn't been important to their success and quite honestly, I'm thinking/ hoping Jack is traded fairly soon so that Sergio/Blake will get a chance to actually contribute to this team.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:35 am
by TBpup
Nate is still counting Jarrett Jack as a PG...silly Nate. :banghead: Air Bud could run a fast break better. :P

:starwars

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:36 am
by PDXKnight
Wizenheimer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



jack had 4 turnovers in that entire game which makes 5 in the 4th quarter statistically unlikely. He had the same number as steve blake and only 1 more then brandon roy who had 3. That was a team-wide meltdown in that game and blaming jack for it is simply off-base.

I didn't say that Jack was Mr Lollypop. I was just wondering how it was that jack "constantly made the team worse, especially down the stretch" as was asserted. A 21-6 record over the last 27 games, when the blazers have played so well down the stretch with Jack on the floor seems to refute the assertion. But maybe I'm missing something.


That's like saying the spurs won the championship last year because of Jacque Vaugn only in Jack's case, he turns the ball over as well. Jack was far from a deciding factor in those wins and had me sweating every time he touched the ball. More than anything, I don't understand why Nate doesn't play Surge when he's excelling and why he doesn't play Blake down the stretch. I know that Jack can drive the ball to the basket but Blake is better at controlling the ball which is more valuable to the Blazers IMHO.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:37 am
by PDXKnight
TBpup wrote:Nate is still counting Jarrett Jack as a PG...silly Nate. :banghead: Air Bud could run a fast break better. :P

:starwars


Don't diss Airbud! :lol:

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:58 am
by Wizenheimer
Oden2 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Can you honestly say that Jack made them better when he was on the floor? When I say down the stretch, I was thinking about his near fatal turnover late in the Atlanta game and he's definitely had his share of stupid turnovers in general. If you think Jack's actually helping this team, you need to start watching Blazer games because any Blazer fan would know that Jack is a turnover machine and has hurt this team more them help them this season. The team as a whole has been great, but Jack hasn't been important to their success and quite honestly, I'm thinking/ hoping Jack is traded fairly soon so that Sergio/Blake will get a chance to actually contribute to this team.


since you claimed he 'constantly made them worse down the stretch', I'd say the burden of proof is on you, not me.

and as for the crack about needing to watch games, perhaps my vision is as good as yours and I just see things differently.

Since "any blazer fan" would know the same thing as you, I guess I'm disqualified form being a blazer fan because I simply don't agree with your evaluation. Or maybe we have different definitions of 'any'

I'm not saying jack is a great player, I'm simply saying your assertion that jack constantly makes the team worse is not true. He's hurt them at times and he's helped them, but that's true of almost all the players, and it's certainly true of sergio as well.

I don't want to get into a jack vs sergio debate. It's pointless in my view. I was the one who linked to the article about Sergio in the OP of this thread. I found it a good read, and had some hopeful things about Sergio's future. I'm all for that.

But I think those here that hate jack simply exaggerate his faults and a do the same for Sergio's virtues. In my view, neither one is that good a player right now, so spending much time debating which one is less mediocre is pointless.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:10 am
by PDXKnight
OK Wiz, I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:14 am
by Fitz303
Oden2 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Can you honestly say that Jack made them better when he was on the floor? When I say down the stretch, I was thinking about his near fatal turnover late in the Atlanta game and he's definitely had his share of stupid turnovers in general. If you think Jack's actually helping this team, you need to start watching Blazer games because any Blazer fan would know that Jack is a turnover machine and has hurt this team more them help them this season. The team as a whole has been great, but Jack hasn't been important to their success and quite honestly, I'm thinking/ hoping Jack is traded fairly soon so that Sergio/Blake will get a chance to actually contribute to this team.


While im trying to stay out of this because I am obviously more of a jack supporter than Sergio, but youre clueless if you truly believe what you just wrote. Normally im not one for Per48 stats but if you want to talk about Turnovers, Sergio averages more than Jack when the minutes add up (in fact, 10th in the league in TO Per48). Jack has had poor games down the stretch but Jack has also had very good games down the stretch as well. To call Jack a turnover machine, when he averages 0.9 TOpg more than Blake in nearly the same amount of time, seems pretty ridiculous considering that Jack goes to the hoop more than Blake does. I've got my own opinions on Sergio and Jack, but i'll just leave that alone. But your comments on Jack being a detrement to the team and a turnover machine are pretty (Please Use More Appropriate Word)

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:31 am
by Milkdud
First off nice little article.

Now to the meat and potatoes, until Sergio improves either his outside shooting or ability to be effective with the drive. He is a liability in the clutch. There are many reasons Jack is in during the 4th and "clutch time".

First off his ability to attack the hope and either finish the at the basket/ get to the FT line. Neither Blake or Sergio has shown the ability to do that yet.

Second Jack has the ability and the "stones" to to take the big outside shot. Down the stretch in the 4th offensively we are really reallying on Roy's ability to break down the defender and get himself a score or set up a shooter. Now Blake has the ability to hit those shots but often he is hesitant to take them, while Sergio doesn't have the ability to hit those shots yet with any consistency.

Now Jack is far from perfect but at current he is BPA for the forth on most given games. For each game you give where he cost the blazer you can then give a game he clearly won it for the team (Bulls OT game recently).

On another note: Does anyone think Sergio really needs to have someone address his shot. His mechanics are horrible he basically has a different monition are far as hand placement on every shot.
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