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Minor Shake-Up + Draft Day Deal

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:48 pm
by TowelBoy12
I don't really expect to see any of the larger trades that have been discussed (Devin Harris, Mike Miller, etc.) to materialize, but while I was sitting around thinking about the Blazers something of an idea hit me. Here it goes.

Deadline Trade:

Sergio, Jack, Frye to Miami for Udonis Haslem*

*Note, this deal falls something like $200k short on Trade Machine, but I don't really want to toss in McRoberts just to make it work. We'd have to pull what the Lakers did with Aaron McKie by creating an expiring deal with a retired player. For those of you who read the TrueHoop post a couple weeks ago, you know we can do this with Chris Dudley :clap: .

From the Blazers perspective, this makes sense. Haslem, like Frye, has the ability to stretch defenses with his high-percentage jump shot, but isn't such a softy down low. He would provide a lot of help on the glass as well as defensively in the post. As for Sergio and Jack, they provide nice incentive for Miami, and I don't think they will be missed all that much. On the Miami board, reaction to this trade was positive initially, then lukewarm. It clearly saves them money and I think Haslem is expendable as they build around Wade, Marion, and a draft pick... especially since Frye is a very nice replacement.

Green becomes our backup point guard; there is no way he could be less productive than Sergio. His on-ball defense might be the best of all our PGs. Blake would also see an increase in minutes; fine by me.

Draft Day Deal:

Outlaw, #15, 2nd rounder to Milwaukee for Desmond Mason, #6*

*Note, these are of course hypothetical at this point. Mason has a nice expiring deal that fits with Outlaw's salary.

A guard of the Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon, Jerryd Bayless, OJ Mayo ilk is exactly what this team needs with Roy, in my opinion. Guys who can create their own offense, run both guard spots, and who are freakish athletes capable of locking down opposing PGs on defense. A whole new generations of Devin Harrises, if you will. The beauty is, it's a virtual guarantee one will be there at #6 or #7. My current favorite is probably Bayless.

Depth Chart:

PG - Blake, Bayless, Kopo/Green?

SG - Roy, Fernandez

SF - Webster, Jones, Miles

PF - Aldridge, Haslem, Freeland?

C - Oden, Joel, Raef

I definitely wouldn't hand the reigns over to the rookie over Blake in the first year, but look how explosive our new white unit is. Scoring everywhere and ample toughness in Joel and Haslem. Even with three high-profile rookies, I would argue the team above has more experience and poise than this year's team, primarily in virtue of Roy's and Aldridge's and Webster's natural progression, but also the continued presence of veterans Blake, Joel, Jones, and now Haslem.

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:28 pm
by SinceClyde
I like it, but then I'm one of the few that could deal with Outlaw being traded. Bayless does look good. 39 points today? That's a guy who can take a game over.

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:44 pm
by Telfaire
I think that if we wont get Harris or Hinrich this deadline, there's a good chance it could happen on draft day. Depends on what Dallas would do in the playoff, and if the Bulls and/or Nets would be there.

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:57 pm
by BlackMamba
well, at first i wasn't thinking your trades were a good idea, but then, watching the final roster i really like it, it's a very solid and good starting lineup with a pretty good bench.

still, the blazers would again be very young, and of course it's good, but again, there ara games where the unexperience of all players is shown and it sometimes could come to that factor.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:16 am
by PDXKnight
I think the Blazers would have to be sure that they could get a PG that fits our needs (like bayless) before making this deal. If they can do that, I'd be all for it. Haslem would be a perfect backup big man and while he's kind of spendy for a bench player, would fit perfectly IMO. I'm not sold on Sergio and Jack these days and this may be a possibility that KP should consider.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:25 am
by Mr Odd
I dont like getting rid of Outlaw at all, even for Bayless.
Also im a big Bayless fan!!

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:18 am
by tucson
No way KP trades Outlaw away for a draft pick. Most deadline trades are done by teams looking to improve their short term results. KP has stated he won't sacrifice the long term for a short term benefit. So none of young players are likely to be traded until the off season.

Now if another team happened to offer another young player that better fit this team for say Frye or Jack then KP might be tempted to pull the trigger but such deals are rare at the deadline. Hard to think of team that would be motivated to do so unless we take on bad contract as well.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:18 am
by Tim Lehrbach
Is Haslem really any better than Frye?

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:27 am
by TowelBoy12
Tim Lehrbach wrote:Is Haslem really any better than Frye?


Interesting question, lol. I think the primary factor is that Frye is considered "soft" while Haslem is considered the opposite. They actually have similar offensive games in terms of scoring primarily on open 18 footers on feeds from teammates. However, my impression is that Haslem also scores more on put backs. He is a superior hustle guy and interior defensive presence.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
by Jsun947
This doesn't make sense to me...

First of all Udonis Haslem barely gives more production then Channing Frye. Second of all his contract counts 7.1 million dollars into the 09/10 season which contradicts our salary plan. Third of all we are giving up Jarret Jack, Channing Frye and Sergio for that?

COUNT ME OUT!!!

We end up giving four young players, our first round pick for no more production at PF, hopefully something at PG who probably won't crack the rotation of Blake, Roy, and Rudy anymore then Sergio already has and to add 7 million dollars to the cap the one year we need it. I don't think so.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:00 am
by TowelBoy12
Jsun947 wrote:This doesn't make sense to me...

First of all Udonis Haslem barely gives more production then Channing Frye. Second of all his contract counts 7.1 million dollars into the 09/10 season which contradicts our salary plan. Third of all we are giving up Jarret Jack, Channing Frye and Sergio for that?

COUNT ME OUT!!!

We end up giving four young players, our first round pick for no more production at PF, hopefully something at PG who probably won't crack the rotation of Blake, Roy, and Rudy anymore then Sergio already has and to add 7 million dollars to the cap the one year we need it. I don't think so.


Well, I guess I should out myself as no longer on board with the whole cap space 2009 plan. I honestly don't see the purpose... at all. I can't possibly think of a player in the NBA who will be a free agent and would fit with our roster.

Secondly, you just compared Jerryd Bayless to Sergio Rodriguez. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:19 am
by PhilipNelsonFan
1. The first deal is bad.

2. The second deal is worse.

3. For the love of God, Jerryd Bayless isn't very good, people.

I don't see how any of these deals make the Blazers a better team, especially if it means trading our bench depth for a 6-foot shooting guard who can't play PG and who doesn't play defense.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:32 am
by TowelBoy12
PhilipNelsonFan wrote:1. The first deal is bad.

2. The second deal is worse.

3. For the love of God, Jerryd Bayless isn't very good, people.

I don't see how any of these deals make the Blazers a better team, especially if it means trading our bench depth for a 6-foot shooting guard who can't play PG and who doesn't play defense.


Ah, now I remember why I stopped coming to this board for so long. Thanks, Phil. Before I take my leave, learn a thing or two about Bayless. He's 6'3", not 6 foot, and defense is listed as a strength on all his scouting reports, as is court vision. I'd really love to know which side of your a$$ you pull this stuff out of.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:44 am
by PhilipNelsonFan
His listed height is 6-3. Just like Charles Barkley's listed height was 6-6. I've seen Bayless play and I don't think he's anywhere close.

As far as PG play goes, court vision matters but so does ball handling, and I've never seen him do that very much at all. You'd think, given his reputation as a playmaker, that'd be his primary job but the ball is out of his hands for the most part. He also doesn't drive a lot and isn't very big, and we all know what happens when those two things mix. (He can finish, but he'll absorb a lot more contact in the NBA than he does at 'Zona.)

As far as his defense goes, the reputation that he has poor defense may be an extension of Arizona's well-earned reputation for poor team defense. I'll be sure to scrutinize that next time I see him play.

And thank you for responding to my venting in a professional manner.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:49 am
by TowelBoy12
PhilipNelsonFan wrote:His listed height is 6-3. Just like Charles Barkley's listed height was 6-6. I've seen Bayless play and I don't think he's anywhere close.

As far as PG play goes, court vision matters but so does ball handling, and I've never seen him do that very much at all. You'd think, given his reputation as a playmaker, that'd be his primary job but the ball is out of his hands for the most part. He also doesn't drive a lot and isn't very big, and we all know what happens when those two things mix. (He can finish, but he'll absorb a lot more contact in the NBA than he does at 'Zona.)

As far as his defense goes, the reputation that he has poor defense may be an extension of Arizona's well-earned reputation for poor team defense. I'll be sure to scrutinize that next time I see him play.

And thank you for responding to my venting in a professional manner.


No hard feelings. I find the arrogant, patronizing, condescending, holier-than-thou manner with which you respond to threads you disagree with to be extremely corrosive. It brought back memories of last summer, the last time I ventured onto this board to talk about my favorite team for an extended period of time.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:55 am
by Jsun947
Cap space is used for more then free agents.

I didn't compare Bayless to Sergio. I just said Bayless isn't better then Blake, Roy, and Rudy at this point in his career.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:07 am
by TowelBoy12
Jsun947 wrote:Cap space is used for more then free agents.

I didn't compare Bayless to Sergio. I just said Bayless isn't better then Blake, Roy, and Rudy at this point in his career.


Fair point about about cap space re: free agents. My thing is that I really feel like we have almost all the pieces in place. It comes down to whether or not you think Blake will be the starting point guard for the next eight years and whether or not you think this is what would be best for the team. Personally, I want to ship out most of our PGs, have Blake run the white unit, and upgrade the starting spot... and I don't want to have to wait until 2009 to make it happen. I feel like once we make this acquisition, our team needs will be minimal from now until Roy is exiting his prime, seriously.

So basically, the ideas I put forth in this thread are that philosophy in mind. I ship out the PGs (like I alluded to) in a deal for a player I think would be great for our white unit. Then I make a move to acquire what I view as the perfect guard complement to Roy (and I don't think Roy's perfect complement is a pure PG).

Believe me, I know what it feels like to get caught up this time of year in the hot college prospects. I got the fever last year and the year before that. This year is actually different. All season long my preference has been to use our 2008 pick in a trade. However, the damn Harris trade rumor that's had us all arguing for weeks is what made me really start to consider what I think we should do about the PG spot.

My answer: I want a guard slightly smaller and quicker than Roy who can take the primary perimeter defensive back court assignment off his hands most nights, particularly against the likes of Chris Paul and Tony Parker. I also think the guard should be a guy who can create his own offense but also excel off the ball for when it's in Roy's hands.

Coincidentally, this is really the "draft of the combo guards", with frosh phenoms Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo, and Jerryd Bayless all figuring to be off the board by #8 or so. While I share your apprehension about getting younger, I can just about assure you that all of these guys are lightyears ahead of Sergio in terms of NBA readiness, and would make excellent additions to the white unit for a year or two, after which they make the logical swap with Blake.

While I really came up with this thread on a whim anyway, the roster I came up with at the end of it looks exactly how I envision our championship team being composed.