Game 29 Thread - Kings (16-12) vs Hornets (7-22)

[City of Trees]

Sabonis 2-5
Murray 0-2
Huerter 0-2
Barnes 5-8
Fox 3-4
Davis 0-1
Monk 3-4

[LightTheBeam]

Such a painful loss when fox/sabonis play like this. Needed 1 other guy to show up and nobody answered the call. That plus the missed fts. So painful

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[sackings916]

Huerter was really bad tonight. And to top it off that foul at the end down 3 when all we needed was a stop. Gotta know whats going on in that spot.

[BoogieTime]

Keegan with 1 board tonight, and he has been rebounding bad for a power forward all season.

I'm being real, he seems a bit soft mentally so far. Thats the reason for the alligator arm shooting earlier in the season, its the reason hes going up soft at the rim, etc. He's skilled, but, sheepish would be the word. As skilled as he is if he had dawg in him he'd be in this ROY race. I hope this is about a rookie still acclimating to the league and not a career trend. But he needs to start boarding.

Huerter, I can only hope gains some consistency as his career progresses

[BoogieTime]

Its also odd that we've had this backup center marry go round, and the most talented backup center in my mind is Len who I thought held his own in the preseason, hasn't gotten a shot behind now Queta with Metu and Holmes. Len you know will at least provide paint presence, if nothing else. (Brown was talking about Domas playing too many minutes now)

[OxAndFox]

Such a painful loss when fox/sabonis play like this. Needed 1 other guy to show up and nobody answered the call. That plus the missed fts. So painful

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Honestly didn't need anyone else to do anything else but hit FTs.
It's been the usual suspects. Barnes, Huerter, Domas, and lately Keegan. I have been noticing this for a while now and it hasn't cost us too much, either we're down too much or it's been earlier in the game.
IMO it's a continuation of the pre season FT competitions. Putting too much emphasis on what the consequence is of 1 missed FT sometimes is poor compared to simply improving the shot. See Fox as an example.

[OxAndFox]

Keegan with 1 board tonight, and he has been rebounding bad for a power forward all season.

I'm being real, he seems a bit soft mentally so far. Thats the reason for the alligator arm shooting earlier in the season, its the reason hes going up soft at the rim, etc. He's skilled, but, sheepish would be the word. As skilled as he is if he had dawg in him he'd be in this ROY race. I hope this is about a rookie still acclimating to the league and not a career trend. But he needs to start boarding.

Huerter, I can only hope gains some consistency as his career progresses

You can't be serious right? You're just poking the bear each time yeah? Fox/Keegan/Fox/Keegan/maybe Huerter, nah, wait till later etc
A player has 23 rebounds for your team and your complaint is the PF didn't board enough? Do you know the teams' strategy?
Last night against Charlotte Jokic had 27 boards. Gordon at PF had 10 boards. Yes there is a major difference in their output. Difference is, can you please show everyone the missed assignments Keegan had tonight that cost boards. Adding to that, can you please show each time Keegan missed an assignment from the defensive strategy. Barnes had 3 boards. Someone like Hayward had 10 last night and
BTW, Barnes averages 5.3 and Keegan 3.9 with the latter at around 3mpg less. Is it that far down for a 27-game rookie to be behind a savvy vet like Barnes when both a splitting time at the same position?
I think you will find that Keegan should actually be applauded for his defensive improvements shown recently, (something that will definitely hold him in good stead in future years despite some what have you done for me lately campers), including your infamous "concerned about Keegan Murray" call.
He is quickly going to become one of the best two way forwards in the NBA that can switch between 3/4 and your now asking questions about his game for the 2nd time in a 27 game career.
Yeah if you don't know, the Kings know the 22/23 season isn't the end of time. This isn't a be all and end all year. YES they want to win, but the D will improve and they will become a better team. They know EVERY player on this squad (except Delly) will improve from here on out.
That's the difference between this FO/coaching staff and the previous, they're putting time in and they have a strategy.

So while we all love your Stephen A hot takes, me included, almost quarter to quarter, this is a marathon, and all of the major players here are 25 and under. Can you please mention a team that is currently a contender and all of their core is 25 and under? There would be less than 2-3. This team is built for 2-3 years down the line. I will expand on why this team has grown exponentially
in just 29 games in another thread.
Don't just take one of the questions and evade the others in response, let's have a discussion about these questions.

[LightTheBeam]

I agree with Boogie about Keegan. I think he's a super talented kid. But my biggest gripe with him has been his physicality. It was advertised as he bullied kids in college, now he seems to shy away from contact. He doesn't box out. Basically if Sabonis isn't under the rim, the other team is getting an offensive rebound.

They beat us in 2nd chance pts 24 to 6. That isn't a small margin. Basically all of their 2nd chance pts are bringing Sabonis out of the paint, they get a follow up dunk or offensive rebound and easy put back. In terms of offensive rebounds, it was 11-10, so its not like we don't get any. The difference is when Sabonis grabs an offensive board, hes swarmed by 3 guys and is forced to pass out. It doesn't work that way for the other team.

A lot to be impressed about Keegan. As fans we shouldn't turn a blind eye to our players flaws. Keegan is weak and soft. Hopefully he hits the gym this summer and improves in that area.

[OxAndFox]

I agree with Boogie about Keegan. I think he's a super talented kid. But my biggest gripe with him has been his physicality. It was advertised as he bullied kids in college, now he seems to shy away from contact. He doesn't box out. Basically if Sabonis isn't under the rim, the other team is getting an offensive rebound.

They beat us in 2nd chance pts 24 to 6. That isn't a small margin. Basically all of their 2nd chance pts are bringing Sabonis out of the paint, they get a follow up dunk or offensive rebound and easy put back. In terms of offensive rebounds, it was 11-10, so its not like we don't get any. The difference is when Sabonis grabs an offensive board, hes swarmed by 3 guys and is forced to pass out. It doesn't work that way for the other team.

A lot to be impressed about Keegan. As fans we shouldn't turn a blind eye to our players flaws. Keegan is weak and soft. Hopefully he hits the gym this summer and improves in that area.

The major difference is, are the coaching staff putting him in a position to be a rebounder? It looks, from the outside at least, the Kings' strategy doesn't necessarily have him and Barnes getting to the glass.
That doesn't mean they aren't there all the time and that's not saying Keegan never misses a board. I think it's harsh to call a player out for essentially playing the role he is being asked.
I do agree that he is timid and that will improve with experience.

[LightTheBeam]

I agree with Boogie about Keegan. I think he's a super talented kid. But my biggest gripe with him has been his physicality. It was advertised as he bullied kids in college, now he seems to shy away from contact. He doesn't box out. Basically if Sabonis isn't under the rim, the other team is getting an offensive rebound.

They beat us in 2nd chance pts 24 to 6. That isn't a small margin. Basically all of their 2nd chance pts are bringing Sabonis out of the paint, they get a follow up dunk or offensive rebound and easy put back. In terms of offensive rebounds, it was 11-10, so its not like we don't get any. The difference is when Sabonis grabs an offensive board, hes swarmed by 3 guys and is forced to pass out. It doesn't work that way for the other team.

A lot to be impressed about Keegan. As fans we shouldn't turn a blind eye to our players flaws. Keegan is weak and soft. Hopefully he hits the gym this summer and improves in that area.

The major difference is, are the coaching staff putting him in a position to be a rebounder? It looks, from the outside at least, the Kings' strategy doesn't necessarily have him and Barnes getting to the glass.
That doesn't mean they aren't there all the time and that's not saying Keegan never misses a board. I think it's harsh to call a player out for essentially playing the role he is being asked.
I do agree that he is timid and that will improve with experience.

I think the issue goes way beyond just rebounding though. He lets guys blow by him when they are full steam downhill, almost like hes scared of the contact. Offensively hes gotten better at absorbing underneath, but not nearly the way he looked in college. Interior defense leaves a ton to be desired. He's 22 years old, 6'8 and probably 230. In size hes bigger than Oubre/Washington, but he certainly doesn't play that way. He doesn't contest anything. He doesn't even try. It's pretty telling that even TD has better interior defense than him.

Again this isn't saying that he's a bad player. This is basically the same concern I had coming into this season. He's basically another Harrison Barnes. It's really really hard to build a true winning defense when you have Huerter/Barnes/Murray behind Sabonis. Sabonis has been a great man defender this year, but his help defense/shot blocking doesn't exist. The rest of this team lacks physicality.

I had Murray pegged as a PF coming in. But after watching this season, the teams best path is him losing some baby weight, increasing his lateral movement, and becoming a SF. Then Sac needs to find our Aaron Gordon. Tough nose, physical, rebounding, athletic, help defending PF. PJ Washington could be a cheap buy low version.

[OxAndFox]

I agree with Boogie about Keegan. I think he's a super talented kid. But my biggest gripe with him has been his physicality. It was advertised as he bullied kids in college, now he seems to shy away from contact. He doesn't box out. Basically if Sabonis isn't under the rim, the other team is getting an offensive rebound.

They beat us in 2nd chance pts 24 to 6. That isn't a small margin. Basically all of their 2nd chance pts are bringing Sabonis out of the paint, they get a follow up dunk or offensive rebound and easy put back. In terms of offensive rebounds, it was 11-10, so its not like we don't get any. The difference is when Sabonis grabs an offensive board, hes swarmed by 3 guys and is forced to pass out. It doesn't work that way for the other team.

A lot to be impressed about Keegan. As fans we shouldn't turn a blind eye to our players flaws. Keegan is weak and soft. Hopefully he hits the gym this summer and improves in that area.

The major difference is, are the coaching staff putting him in a position to be a rebounder? It looks, from the outside at least, the Kings' strategy doesn't necessarily have him and Barnes getting to the glass.
That doesn't mean they aren't there all the time and that's not saying Keegan never misses a board. I think it's harsh to call a player out for essentially playing the role he is being asked.
I do agree that he is timid and that will improve with experience.

I think the issue goes way beyond just rebounding though. He lets guys blow by him when they are full steam downhill, almost like hes scared of the contact. Offensively hes gotten better at absorbing underneath, but not nearly the way he looked in college. Interior defense leaves a ton to be desired. He's 22 years old, 6'8 and probably 230. In size hes bigger than Oubre/Washington, but he certainly doesn't play that way. He doesn't contest anything. He doesn't even try. It's pretty telling that even TD has better interior defense than him.

Again this isn't saying that he's a bad player. This is basically the same concern I had coming into this season. He's basically another Harrison Barnes. It's really really hard to build a true winning defense when you have Huerter/Barnes/Murray behind Sabonis. Sabonis has been a great man defender this year, but his help defense/shot blocking doesn't exist. The rest of this team lacks physicality.

I had Murray pegged as a PF coming in. But after watching this season, the teams best path is him losing some baby weight, increasing his lateral movement, and becoming a SF. Then Sac needs to find our Aaron Gordon. Tough nose, physical, rebounding, athletic, help defending PF. PJ Washington could be a cheap buy low version.

I agree with you on this. That is where a lot of disconnect is IMO. The best spot currently for Keegan is at the 3. He will eventually be a 4, but right now he more suited there. The problem is, as you said, he is another Barnes. The other problem, and the reason "he is a 4" is because he's one of the guys that has to work on his body in reverse than most. He has puppy fat and needs to lose it. 99% of guys coming in need to put weight on.