Can The Kings Still Make it???

[SacKingZZZ]

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Eh I think it's the players that are giving up. I heard that Reggie was hella pissed in his post game comments on the radio. I didn't hear the comments but I guess he was unhappy with the effort and possibly might shake up the line up. If guys are giving up we might as well get the young guys some PT.

That's a tough position to put the players in if that is the reasoning for playing the young players though. Down right destructive if you ask me. When the young players finally get their chance it should be based on a shift of focus, not for immediate results or because the starters aren't "playing hard", as I said in my last post. Sometimes the point behind what you are doing is just as important as what you actually do and really defines what you are doing.

[deNIEd]

Last year we were in a similiar situation.

Lose 3-4 more games, and we get a Horford.
Play J.Williams, F. Garcia, Q. Douby more minutes and they develop better/more
Play the youngs more, chances of us losing are greater
Losing + Developing Youngs = win win

Same situation this year.
If it's impossible for us to win, and players giving up, then develop the youngs as much as we can, so they will be better next year. Miller, Artest, vet type player, are near as good as they will ever get, Miller won't significantly improve over 2 months, however, Hawes and Williams may.
Play Douby 20 minutes, Garcia 25 minutes, Hawes 35, Williams 25.
We get a better pick, and our youngs get better faster
Next year, our team is better in every way

[SacKingZZZ]

Last year we were in a similiar situation.

Lose 3-4 more games, and we get a Horford.
Play J.Williams, F. Garcia, Q. Douby more minutes and they develop better/more
Play the youngs more, chances of us losing are greater
Losing + Developing Youngs = win win

Same situation this year.
If it's impossible for us to win, and players giving up, then develop the youngs as much as we can, so they will be better next year. Miller, Artest, vet type player, are near as good as they will ever get, Miller won't significantly improve over 2 months, however, Hawes and Williams may.
Play Douby 20 minutes, Garcia 25 minutes, Hawes 35, Williams 25.
We get a better pick, and our youngs get better faster
Next year, our team is better in every way

Well, we don't really have to worry about the draft pick thing this year. We are pretty much firmly planted in either the 12th or 13th spot in the lotto.

Also this year is much different because the 8th seed may have to get 50 wins to make it! That is freaking nuts. 3 more losses and we mathematically have no chance of even getting 50 wins.

Oh, and I wouldn't put down losing as a win per se. If the young guys are important factors in our wins then that is all for the better, veterens? Eh, they've been there before and far beyond. And as I said losing won't likely help us now anyway.

[BMiller52]

Well, we don't really have to worry about the draft pick thing this year. We are pretty much firmly planted in either the 12th or 13th spot in the lotto.

Also this year is much different because the 8th seed may have to get 50 wins to make it! That is freaking nuts. 3 more losses and we mathematically have no chance of even getting 50 wins.

Oh, and I wouldn't put down losing as a win per se. If the young guys are important factors in our wins then that is all for the better, veterens? Eh, they've been there before and far beyond. And as I said losing won't likely help us now anyway.

We're actually only like 3 games in front of the Bucks and a few other teams. That could be the difference between 8 and 12. I'd just start playing the young guys now. I'd keep Martin and Ron out there for 30ish MPG though, but Mikki's minutes need to go away and I'd cut Brad's PT to make room for Hawes also.

[deNIEd]

Well, we don't really have to worry about the draft pick thing this year. We are pretty much firmly planted in either the 12th or 13th spot in the lotto.

Also this year is much different because the 8th seed may have to get 50 wins to make it! That is freaking nuts. 3 more losses and we mathematically have no chance of even getting 50 wins.

Oh, and I wouldn't put down losing as a win per se. If the young guys are important factors in our wins then that is all for the better, veterens? Eh, they've been there before and far beyond. And as I said losing won't likely help us now anyway.

First part is not true.
Atlanta, Chicago, Indiana, Mil., LAC, can all surpass us in terms of wins.
Atlanta + addition of Bibby + East
Chicago + Better PF + East
Indiana + East
Mil. + East
LAC + Brand
Realistically, I can see us as low as 8th-9th, which makes a league of difference.

If the vet's gave up, give all the time to the youngs. Give Sheldon, Hawes, Douby, Garcia starter minutes. If that means winning .600 of the games, then great, next year we'll be a playoff team. If it means we go .200 the rest of the way, then great, we get ourselves a top 8 pick.

We need to tell know now, if Hawes and Sheldon will work out or not. Garcia we already know will be good, but exactly how good? Good enough to make Artest completely unnecessary? Will Douby be a decent bench player, or possibly a Barbosa type player.

This is tanking in my mind, and what i've been calling for. We lose, develop players, get a better record. Everything is a plus.

[deNIEd]

What I would like to see

PG: B. Udrih (30) Q. Douby (13) F. Garcia (5)
SG: K. Martin (30) Q. Douby (4) F. Garcia (14)
SF: R. Artest (18) J. Salmons (24) F. Garcia (6)
PF: S. Williams (25) R. Artest(12) M. Moore (11)
C : B. Miller (20) S. Hawes (28)

[KingInExile]

Making the playoffs is probably not obtainable at this point, but this team needs to have goals that involve winning games. Goal 1 must be winning more than last year to show that Theus IS better than coach Power Point. Goal 2 needs to be get to .500 to show that this team is capable of winning as much as they are capable of losing. It would be a bonus to be able to do both of those while playing the young guys, but winning is what is important. When the grand prize is out of reach, you still need to have moral victories as goals to maintain your self respect.

[floppymoose]

Goal 1 must be winning more than last year to show that Theus IS better than coach Power Point.

omg that is fantastic!

[SacKingZZZ]

Making the playoffs is probably not obtainable at this point, but this team needs to have goals that involve winning games. Goal 1 must be winning more than last year to show that Theus IS better than coach Power Point. Goal 2 needs to be get to .500 to show that this team is capable of winning as much as they are capable of losing. It would be a bonus to be able to do both of those while playing the young guys, but winning is what is important. When the grand prize is out of reach, you still need to have moral victories as goals to maintain your self respect.

If that hasn't been proven by now then it won't be. Trying to get .500 may be the thing that causes us to have nothing beneficial come out the rest of the games we play.

Trying to simply win and playing the vets while stomping out the young players on this team just to prove our coach is "better" is a selfish thing to do. I mean, when you have no shot at the playoffs it's almost like you a playing out preseason ball for the rest of the year. So it should be treated accordingly IMO. No point in playing the vets, who won't benefit from the minutes anyway and just assume a greater risk of getting hurt/worn down for nothing.

[deNIEd]

Making the playoffs is probably not obtainable at this point, but this team needs to have goals that involve winning games. Goal 1 must be winning more than last year to show that Theus IS better than coach Power Point. Goal 2 needs to be get to .500 to show that this team is capable of winning as much as they are capable of losing. It would be a bonus to be able to do both of those while playing the young guys, but winning is what is important. When the grand prize is out of reach, you still need to have moral victories as goals to maintain your self respect.

I don't think anyone doubts that.

But winning now does hurt us. Regardless of who the coach is, either "power point" or Pop, there is only so much a coach can do with a given set of players. No coach can take the Knicks to a championship this year, we need more talent, and the easiest way to get talent is from the draft.

The rest of year should just be a tryout.

Again, we NEED to know if Hawes is a starting C in the league, and whether Sheldon is a starter or a bench player. We NEED to know if Garcia can keep his level of play for an extended period of time, and whether he can take over the starting role, making Artest more expendable. There are many questions we NEED to have answered, if we try to win as many games as possible now, it will take 2-3 years before those questions can be answered. If we start giving our youngs starter type minutes, then we can answer those questions THIS year, so we know exactly where this team needs to go, and exactly what our needs are

[KingInExile]

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I don't think anyone doubts that.

But winning now does hurt us. Regardless of who the coach is, either "power point" or Pop, there is only so much a coach can do with a given set of players. No coach can take the Knicks to a championship this year, we need more talent, and the easiest way to get talent is from the draft.

The rest of year should just be a tryout.

Again, we NEED to know if Hawes is a starting C in the league, and whether Sheldon is a starter or a bench player. We NEED to know if Garcia can keep his level of play for an extended period of time, and whether he can take over the starting role, making Artest more expendable. There are many questions we NEED to have answered, if we try to win as many games as possible now, it will take 2-3 years before those questions can be answered. If we start giving our youngs starter type minutes, then we can answer those questions THIS year, so we know exactly where this team needs to go, and exactly what our needs are

Just because you have deluded yourself with the fantasy that the draft will guarantee talent doesn't mean that this team should stop trying to win games. All a loser mentality (ie, not doing what it takes to win games just for the sake of "holding tryouts") breads is losers. This team desperately needs to know what it takes to win games. This team desperately needs to know how to overcome adversity to succeed. Knowing how to win and showing that the franchise is committed to winning will go a lot farther to ensure long-term success than relying on the delusional fantasy that tanking games will make you more than a loser. If you want to cheer for a loser, become a Timberwolves fan.

[BMiller52]

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Just because you have deluded yourself with the fantasy that the draft will guarantee talent doesn't mean that this team should stop trying to win games. All a loser mentality (ie, not doing what it takes to win games just for the sake of "holding tryouts") breads is losers. This team desperately needs to know what it takes to win games. This team desperately needs to know how to overcome adversity to succeed. Knowing how to win and showing that the franchise is committed to winning will go a lot farther to ensure long-term success than relying on the delusional fantasy that tanking games will make you more than a loser. If you want to cheer for a loser, become a Timberwolves fan.

All our players are losers, the only ones that aren't are Spencer and Shelden. Might as well get them some time so atleast SOMEONE on this team can learn how to win. You can't teach an old dog new tricks just like you can't teach Mikki Moore to be a contributor on a winning team. Kevin is playing like a loser and transforming into Peja except on a terrible team, Artest is a loser that thinks he's a winner, Salmons is a loser, etc.

Losing games? Man the Kings don't need any help with that. But if you suck and you're losing games then you might as well get your young guys to learn how to win while you're losing.

[RoyalCourtJestr]

I'm one of those kinda guys who tries to put a enevitable good spin on his favorite players no matter the situation... (I notice i'm not the only one on this board that does this). And truth be told my three favorite I0hate-to-bash-them-in-any-way guys are Kevin, John and Frankie. Now Kevin needs a slap in the face and a confendence boster, John needs to stop bitching, and Frankie... well, Frankie is a constant. XD

We won't make the playoffs. Pure and simple.

[BMiller52]

I'm one of those kinda guys who tries to put a enevitable good spin on his favorite players no matter the situation... (I notice i'm not the only one on this board that does this). And truth be told my three favorite I0hate-to-bash-them-in-any-way guys are Kevin, John and Frankie. Now Kevin needs a slap in the face and a confendence boster, John needs to stop bitching, and Frankie... well, Frankie is a constant. XD

We won't make the playoffs. Pure and simple.

Martin is a freaking scrub and Salmons is even worse. I can't believe Martin is having all these horrible games, his team is losing, he gets benched, and he's freaking laughing it up on the bench. I mean what the hell, atleast be pissed you're losing. Get open. It's like he's playing on a goddamn hangover or something, airballing shots he normally makes, missing easy shots, like he just doesn't care or whatever. How the hell are we supposed to rebuild with this dude as a significant piece when he just acts like he doesn't even give a damn. I don't see how Kevin doesn't get any flack for playing like crap every other quarter/half/game but Ron is blamed for everything. Atleast Ron cares. And how Mikki plays terrible all the time but he gets 30 MPG compared to Shelden's 3 or 4. PATHETIC.

Oh yeah, bench KMart for Garcia. ATLEAST CISCO CARES.

[deNIEd]

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Just because you have deluded yourself with the fantasy that the draft will guarantee talent doesn't mean that this team should stop trying to win games.

We both believe the same thing, that PETRIE will be able to find a good player regardless of where he drafts.
Throw in a fact that, the higher your pick, the more choices you have...

I however, am able to connect the dots and realize, the better pick Petrie has, the more he can do with it.

All a loser mentality (ie, not doing what it takes to win games just for the sake of "holding tryouts") breads is losers.

And not playing players doesn't bread winners either...and that is exactly what's happening right now. Hawes and Sheldon both need more minutes

This team desperately needs to know what it takes to win games. This team desperately needs to know how to overcome adversity to succeed.

hmm...who is "this team"
Miller? Artest? - Both of them should know how to win, they both have been in the playoffs enough times, and if they haven't learned to win now, they never will.
Moore? Shareef? Thomas? - Whether or not they know how to win really doesn't affect the team one bit at all.
AJ? Lue? - Again, no one will care if they can win or not, because there is no chance that they are resigned.
Who does that leave then??
Douby, Udrih, K. Mart, Garcia, Salmons, Sheldon, Hawes....oh right...EXACTLY THE PLAYERS THAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING PLAY THE ENTIRE GAME

The players that NEED to learn how to win are our young players, and you don't learn by watching, otherwise Beno should know exactly what it takes to be part of a dynasty.

You learn by PLAYING, you learn by DOING. and thats EXACTLY WHAT THIS TEAM NEEDS
I however, understand that by playing Sheldon and Hawes over Moore and Miller, by giving all of AJ's time to Douby, and playing Garcia and Martin more, will very likely make the team worse, however, you develop your players more, and they learn what it takes to be a winner.

You learn by playing not by watching.
The players that are playing, don't need to learn anymore,
The players that are watching, are the ones that needs to learn.

[deNIEd]

Oh yeah, bench KMart for Garcia. ATLEAST CISCO [pCARES.

WHAT I'VE BEEN PREACHING THE PAST TWO YEARS

when players with gaurenteed minutes start playing like s****, BENCH THEM. GIVE PLAYERS THAT HAS TO EARN A LIVING A CHANCE!!!!

Last year, if we gave Justin Williams 20 minutes a game, taken from Thomas/Shareef/Miller really have "destroyed" our franchise? Would it have showed that we don't care about "winning?" Would benching Bibby for Douby and Price really have shown that we want to breed losers?

Give me a break.

Play the players that want to play. And currently Hawes, Sheldon, and Garcia WANT TO PLAY. STOP PLAYING PEOPLE WHO DON'T GIVE A S****!!!

STOP CARING ABOUT THE RECORD AND JUST PLAY THE PLAYERS THAT PLAY. It's better to breed effort mentality than a winning mentality. Let everyone know, that if you put in the work, if you play the defense and NEVER give up, you will get the playing time, regardless if you are a vet or an unsigned rookie. Just because you make 10 million a year, DOESN'T MEAN YOU WILL HAVE MINUTES

[PaKwAn]

Martin lacks the mentality of being a very good player,im very dissapointed with his recent performance...If a player knows that he has been sucking this month then he should have the urgency to do good and beast out if he wants to. And knowing that he is the annointed franchise player then he should show much more. If he continues this then he shouldnt be named K$ it should be The Lightswitch.