What's been up with Kevin Martin?

[KF10]

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Ball handling and creating your own shot go hand in hand IMO. While Martin can improve on those I dont think he'll ever be on the level of some of the other elite guards in that category, which will limit his ceiling to not much better than what he is now. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

I disagree. If he improves that area of his game, he will improve tremendously as a player. His isolation will be alot better, his scoring mentality will be better, his whole feel of the game will be better as well. If he develops some sort of post game i.e. backing down smaller players and hitting a turnaround jumpshot. He will be a lot better... Currently, he is in the top 10 SG list. If he improves his game over the summer, he could jump into the top 6 or 7 or so...

[magee]

Two words: Ron Artest.

[KF10]

Two words: Ron Artest.

You can make an argument about that issue. Because Artest needs the ball to be effective and his other half of his game is being ball dominant (other half is dishing out assists...) When Artest is on court, Martin is more of a shooter instead of a scorer. When Artest on the bench, Martin is more of a scorer i.e. attacking the rim, and etc... Because Artest is on the post creating mismatches.

On the other hand, Artest could make the game more easier for Martin. When Artest is getting doubled or tripled teamed, Artest pass the ball to the open man (Martin). Artest creates so much focus on opponents' defense. Martin could/does take advantage of that...

All in all, Artest does contributes on Martin's shortcomings and helps Martin play the game easier at the same time. It is the matter that if we are ready to put Martin as #1 option on offense... As evident, he averaged around ~28ppg when Artest was suspended for the 1st 7 games. So, that is some sample of Martin being a #1 option...So, yeah...

[ICMTM]

^ We SUCKED the 1st 7 games.

As a pro athlete all they do is work on their game. We were saying the same thing about his ball handling last year. I hasn't improved at all. He looks very similar from last year to this year. His defense hasn't looked much better. I think he's at least at a plateau, but I don't see him becoming this guy with handles to where he can cross people over anytime soon. Remember when people said Peja should get some ball handling skills. At what point do we say that's the best Martin can do? I'm saying it now!

If Martin doesn't get any better from this point on he's still a very good NBA player. His game is efficiency. He's the perfect compliment to a Ron Artest type because Kevin doesn't need a lot of touches to put up points.

[KingInExile]

Two words: Ron Artest.

Well if this really came down to a debate of Artest or Martin, there's no question. Artest has far more versatility to his game, which automatically makes him more valuable. Martin has the capability to be a prolific shooter. But prolific shooters are not what you build a team around (we already made that mistake choosing Peja over Webber...that failed). Martin has to figure out how to coexist with Artest. If he can't...well...he becomes incredibly expendable.

[KF10]

^ We SUCKED the 1st 7 games.

As a pro athlete all they do is work on their game. We were saying the same thing about his ball handling last year. I hasn't improved at all. He looks very similar from last year to this year. His defense hasn't looked much better. I think he's at least at a plateau, but I don't see him becoming this guy with handles to where he can cross people over anytime soon. Remember when people said Peja should get some ball handling skills. At what point do we say that's the best Martin can do? I'm saying it now!

If Martin doesn't get any better from this point on he's still a very good NBA player. His game is efficiency. He's the perfect compliment to a Ron Artest type because Kevin doesn't need a lot of touches to put up points.

Well, yeah, we sucked w/o Artest/Bibby. That's pretty obvious...Anyways, IMO I saw a difference in Martin's ball handling from last year. He was a more catch and shoot guy last year but this year at times he creates his on offense (even though he doesnt show it in a consistent bases). That is why he is going to improve in that area. His defense, to be honest, is inconsistent. His length and quickness should make him into a good defender. Again, I expect improvement in that area as well. Martin is not in his prime of his career. His prime is around 2 yrs from now. Until then, he could be a better player then this...

[KF10]

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Well if this really came down to a debate of Artest or Martin, there's no question. Artest has far more versatility to his game, which automatically makes him more valuable. Martin has the capability to be a prolific shooter. But prolific shooters are not what you build a team around (we already made that mistake choosing Peja over Webber...that failed). Martin has to figure out how to coexist with Artest. If he can't...well...he becomes incredibly expendable.

Even though he is a great shooter. He is not just a shooter. He is also a great scorer as well. I assuming that you think the Kings are building around Martin. IMO they are NOT. They are just bringing in players that compliments Martin. Eh, you can make the same argument to Artest, if he cant coexist with Martin. He becomes very expendable as well. To me, the Kings will choose Martin over Artest regardless of talent. As evident to signing a lucrative 5 year deal... You just cannot build a team around Artest. It is just too risky. (We know Artest did somewhat matured from 3 years ago, you might put ALOT of provisions in Artest contract to keep him in check but I doubt...)

[Joseph17]

I think he's decent at creating off the dribble. He just has to work on his turnaround jump shot and his defense. In order to improve his turnaround jump shot, he has to use a regular shooting form. He also needs to put on weight. Even if he gets slightly slower, it won't really matter. I'd be happy if he slowed down to Kobe's speed.

[KingInExile]

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Even though he is a great shooter. He is not just a shooter. He is also a great scorer as well. I assuming that you think the Kings are building around Martin. IMO they are NOT. They are just bringing in players that compliments Martin. Eh, you can make the same argument to Artest, if he cant coexist with Martin. He becomes very expendable as well. To me, the Kings will choose Martin over Artest regardless of talent. As evident to signing a lucrative 5 year deal... You just cannot build a team around Artest. It is just too risky. (We know Artest did somewhat matured from 3 years ago, you might put ALOT of provisions in Artest contract to keep him in check but I doubt...)

When have I ever said I think the Kings are building around Martin? I don't think that at all. In fact I pray that they are not even considering building around Martin. He's a great complimentary piece to have on the team, but he is most certainly not a guy you build around.

Artest, on the other hand, is a guy who has the type of skills you build around. Now I have never been a huge Artest fan and I think there are times when he hurts the team when he tries to do too much. But he is a far more realistic guy to try to build around than Martin. And why can't this team build around Artest? The alleged "risk" you bring up is ancient history. On the floor he has the ability to give other SFs fits on offense and he most certainly is a defensive juggernaut. The fact that Petrie has shown an unwillingness to trade him for crap packages is an indication to me that he is not all that motivated to give up Artest's contributions. You say the that Martin's big, new contract is an indication that the Kings have already shown that they prefer Martin over Artest. Frankly, that's a stretch IMO. There is nothing standing in the way of the Kings negotiating a hefty extension for Artest this summer, an extension that could eclipse Martin's contract. What would you infer if that happens?

I would ultimately prefer that Petrie brought in a franchise big to build around. But if that doesn't happen, I would be just fine with building around Artest. Martin, on the other hand, should be nothing but a complimentary player on this team. If he can't handle that role, then he needs to be moved for the best value we can get.

[KF10]

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When have I ever said I think the Kings are building around Martin? I don't think that at all. In fact I pray that they are not even considering building around Martin. He's a great complimentary piece to have on the team, but he is most certainly not a guy you build around.

Artest, on the other hand, is a guy who has the type of skills you build around. Now I have never been a huge Artest fan and I think there are times when he hurts the team when he tries to do too much. But he is a far more realistic guy to try to build around than Martin. And why can't this team build around Artest? The alleged "risk" you bring up is ancient history. On the floor he has the ability to give other SFs fits on offense and he most certainly is a defensive juggernaut. The fact that Petrie has shown an unwillingness to trade him for crap packages is an indication to me that he is not all that motivated to give up Artest's contributions. You say the that Martin's big, new contract is an indication that the Kings have already shown that they prefer Martin over Artest. Frankly, that's a stretch IMO. There is nothing standing in the way of the Kings negotiating a hefty extension for Artest this summer, an extension that could eclipse Martin's contract. What would you infer if that happens?

I would ultimately prefer that Petrie brought in a franchise big to build around. But if that doesn't happen, I would be just fine with building around Artest. Martin, on the other hand, should be nothing but a complimentary player on this team. If he can't handle that role, then he needs to be moved for the best value we can get.

Oh, I thought you meant that...Eh, anyways, I do agree that Martin will not be a franchise player for a team. He could be an excellent complimentary player. I do understand that Artest's past is ancient news. And the only thing, that is significant is his domestic abuse (even though that is blown to proportion) Other then that, he is been a model citizen to an extent...sort of... But you cant dismiss his past (Even though we try to...Even I tried to...he is what he is..a "risk") He needs to be in a situation that is ideal to winning a ring. In the Kings situation, we are nowhere near that IMO. If we are, Artest will be past his prime and etc...Eh, they have shown that the organization would keep Martin for a long time. In the Bee (Several weeks ago...around the trade dealine or so) when ask "Who is available for trade?" Petrie answered "Everyone except Martin" IMO that shows his interest of Martin in a long term. I like Artest, he is one of my favorite players, but for me, he cant be the focal attention in terms of team structure. The only I see if possible is when a team is structured perfectly i.e. Lakers, Mavs and etc...And considering that the team has a great shot of winning the ring...

Yeah, I do agree that we need a franchise big. Regardless, how that player is obtained, it must come quick...If we want to take advantage of Artest/Martin's prime...