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New Orleans (55-24) at Sacramento (37-42)

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Post#61 » by pillwenney » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:08 am

Agree to disagree then. The Hornets failed to penetrate our zone, and we closed out on shooters well. Mikki and Salmons were a part of it, but weren't the main reason for it. You could argue we would lose, but there is no doubt in my mind that it would have been close.


There were 5 main reasons for it--Beno, Cisco, John, Ron, and Mikki. We were able to close out on their guys and trap them because our rotations were very, very fast. The rotations simply wouldn't have been as fast if Shelden or Spencer were in there, and if one rotation is slow in a defense like that, and the other team has Chris Paul, you will get scored on. The Hornets scored 18 points in that quarter, and IIRC, a 6 of those were on some late, unguardable prayers by Peja. So that's 12 points for the rest of the quarter. That is how we came back and took the lead. That defense was probably about 3 times as good as it normally is for us, and without it, there is no way that we really have a shot in this game.

Cruel_Ruin wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



If these games were so critical for winning, then why is our best player picking and choosing to play in any game that interests him? Isn't this in the way of the whole "banding together as a team" and "positive attitude" concept?

Winning and losing is an part of the NBA cycle. A win or loss today means very little in the grand scheme of things because this was ultimately a losing campaign. Do you think the Hornets not making the playoffs last year had any bearing on their wildly successful campaign this year?


How do you know he's not really hurt? I haven't heard anything to confirm this other than from fans that love to look for opportunities to bash Ron. If he wasn't really hurt, I have a hard time believing that he would skip out on the Denver game.

Sure if you look at it one game at a time, it doesn't mean much. But when you generally approach games with the attitude of "okay well winning doesn't really matter here", then hell yes it does have an effect. Just because a guy wasn't in during crunch time doesn't mean that he didn't play a key role, and that he can't look at a game and say "we beat the #1 seed in the west".
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Post#62 » by KingInExile » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:44 am

mitchweber wrote:How do you know he's not really hurt? I haven't heard anything to confirm this other than from fans that love to look for opportunities to bash Ron. If he wasn't really hurt, I have a hard time believing that he would skip out on the Denver game.

Grant and Jerry were talking about Ron's injury at the beginning of the Spurs game. He is scheduled for surgery on his thumb Friday to re-repair damage that was done a couple of years ago. A couple of years ago he had essentially the same injury Bibby had this year. But instead of taking the 10-weeks to let it heal properly after he had surgery (like Bibby did), he ignored the doctor's advices and was back playing after a little more than a week. Now, since he never healed properly to begin with, a tendon is separating from a screw that was inserted into his thumb and is causing problems. The dude is hurt.

Another thing, he knows that he's playing for a contract next year. He knows that he doesn't need to play hurt right now and risk further aggravating existing injuries. He knows that it's in his best interest to shut it down now, heal over the summer and be ready to play at 100% next season.
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Post#63 » by Smills91 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:38 am

Ron-Ron next season is going to be a BEAST. Contract year + Prime = MONSTER SEASON. I like our chances next year with a Darren Collison or Kevin Love added to our roster.
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Post#64 » by BMiller52 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:52 am

Smills91 wrote:Ron-Ron next season is going to be a BEAST. Contract year + Prime = MONSTER SEASON. I like our chances next year with a Darren Collison or Kevin Love added to our roster.


Why do you have such a hard on for UCLA guys now? The only UCLA player I want is Russ Westbrook. I thought you were a louisville fan anyway. I rather have Earl Clark from Louisville than either of the 2 dudes you mentioned.
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Post#65 » by Smills91 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:20 pm

BMiller52 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Why do you have such a hard on for UCLA guys now? The only UCLA player I want is Russ Westbrook. I thought you were a louisville fan anyway. I rather have Earl Clark from Louisville than either of the 2 dudes you mentioned.
I like Earl Clark a LOT. I HATE UCLA, I just think they got players right now that are going to be very good NBA players.
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Post#66 » by BMiller52 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:35 pm

Smills91 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I like Earl Clark a LOT. I HATE UCLA, I just think they got players right now that are going to be very good NBA players.


Yea you better hate UCLA :lol: . I dunno I just disagree. Collison reminds me a lot of Rafer Alston and Love has skills, but physically he's a lot like Shelden Williams with alligator arms(atleast Shelden had length, in college he was an 18/10 guy also). So I don't expect him to be a great player, or fit with Spencer. I think Earl Clark is badass though.
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Post#67 » by Cruel_Ruin » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:54 pm

mitchweber wrote:
There were 5 main reasons for it--Beno, Cisco, John, Ron, and Mikki. We were able to close out on their guys and trap them because our rotations were very, very fast. The rotations simply wouldn't have been as fast if Shelden or Spencer were in there, and if one rotation is slow in a defense like that, and the other team has Chris Paul, you will get scored on. The Hornets scored 18 points in that quarter, and IIRC, a 6 of those were on some late, unguardable prayers by Peja. So that's 12 points for the rest of the quarter. That is how we came back and took the lead. That defense was probably about 3 times as good as it normally is for us, and without it, there is no way that we really have a shot in this game.


Well, like I said, agree to disagree. I don't see anything Mikki did that Hawes couldn't have, especially in the zone situation. Any minor loss on defense would have been made up on offense, where Hawes is already infinitely better than Mikki is, as displayed in the Spurs game.

mitchweber wrote:
How do you know he's not really hurt? I haven't heard anything to confirm this other than from fans that love to look for opportunities to bash Ron. If he wasn't really hurt, I have a hard time believing that he would skip out on the Denver game.


Have you seen his game log recently? He's hurt enough to sit out some games, miraculously recovers in time for another, and then is hurt again? But I'm not hating on Ron, simply reiterating that these games are just irrelevant in the larger scheme of things, especially with Mikki Moore getting crunchtime minutes over Hawes.

mitchweber wrote:Sure if you look at it one game at a time, it doesn't mean much. But when you generally approach games with the attitude of "okay well winning doesn't really matter here", then hell yes it does have an effect. Just because a guy wasn't in during crunch time doesn't mean that he didn't play a key role, and that he can't look at a game and say "we beat the #1 seed in the west".


I don't expect the coach to intentionally tell players to lose games if that's what you're saying. I also don't believe a "winning mentality" is created through a few moral victories won by veterans who are in their prime or past it, and are still only roleplayers on a sub 40 win team. Believing that winning 39 games in this season over winning 36 will somehow transform the culture a la KG in Boston is extremely wishful thinking.

In terms of crunchtime minutes, a guy on Kingsfans said it more eloquently than I could: It's like throwing money into the toilet. You may have much more money anyways, but throwing it away is just stupid and pointless.
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Post#68 » by Cruel_Ruin » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:56 pm

KingInExile wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Grant and Jerry were talking about Ron's injury at the beginning of the Spurs game. He is scheduled for surgery on his thumb Friday to re-repair damage that was done a couple of years ago. A couple of years ago he had essentially the same injury Bibby had this year. But instead of taking the 10-weeks to let it heal properly after he had surgery (like Bibby did), he ignored the doctor's advices and was back playing after a little more than a week. Now, since he never healed properly to begin with, a tendon is separating from a screw that was inserted into his thumb and is causing problems. The dude is hurt.

Another thing, he knows that he's playing for a contract next year. He knows that he doesn't need to play hurt right now and risk further aggravating existing injuries. He knows that it's in his best interest to shut it down now, heal over the summer and be ready to play at 100% next season.


If he's so worried about his surgery, then why in God's name did he play against the Hornets? You're right in that these games don't mean much when Ron's career is potentially affected, so why did he suit up? Sometimes, it all just makes me want to :banghead:
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Post#69 » by pillwenney » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:40 am

Cruel_Ruin wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I don't expect the coach to intentionally tell players to lose games if that's what you're saying. I also don't believe a "winning mentality" is created through a few moral victories won by veterans who are in their prime or past it, and are still only roleplayers on a sub 40 win team. Believing that winning 39 games in this season over winning 36 will somehow transform the culture a la KG in Boston is extremely wishful thinking.

In terms of crunchtime minutes, a guy on Kingsfans said it more eloquently than I could: It's like throwing money into the toilet. You may have much more money anyways, but throwing it away is just stupid and pointless.


It's not going to transform the culture, but it will keep it from going to crap. And it's not just the veterans winning. Spencer and Shelden have been important parts of every game for a little while. Just because they aren't playing in crunch time, doesn't mean they're not making a difference. Like I've said before, guys will get plenty of opportunities to play in crunch time when they've earned the right to. Spencer's not going to be our main option at the end of the game right now, but he will later. So it's not even really preparing him for much of anything.
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Post#70 » by pillwenney » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:48 am

Cruel_Ruin wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



If he's so worried about his surgery, then why in God's name did he play against the Hornets? You're right in that these games don't mean much when Ron's career is potentially affected, so why did he suit up? Sometimes, it all just makes me want to :banghead:


Because players don't look at it like "well I'm not going to care about this game because we're not in the playoffs anyway, and we really are just playing to develop our young guys, so whatever"--especially Ron. Guys like him want to win because that's the entire purpose of the game, and he wants to be a part of that. The players talk about "playing for pride", and I think some people around here take that statement for granted.
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Post#71 » by Smills91 » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:43 am

Amen parker, Amen!

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