Should we try Hawes out at PF???

[BMiller52]

I have been thinking of this lately. Really he's not much worse athletically than Dirk or Gasol, he's not nearly as unathletic as was advertised. He'd have a size advantage on a lot of guys also which could help considering he seems to have a hard time finishing a few of his post moves against players as big as he is. I know he spent some time at PF when he was paired with Miller for stretches in games. We could take a guy like DeAndre Jordan or Thabeet(if we got a later pick) in the draft too which would be pretty physically imposing. It'd also help us defensively considering we'll be going up against frontlines like Aldridge/Oden, Gasol/Bynum, Amare/Shaq, Scola/Yao, etc. I don't feel too comfortable matching him up against Oden or Bynum considering they're just as big as him and more athletic, Oden's bigger I think. Look at the Mavs-Nowitzki isn't a great defender, but pairing him up with a guy like Dampier at times helps him a lot defensively and gives them more toughness than when they were starting him at C and had Jamison+Walker at PF. Of course Spencer is going to be a little better defensively IMO considering his length but I dunno. Theus said he wanted a smashmouth team, that is one way of making it work IMO.

[pillwenney]

Absolutely not--at least not long term. He has trouble against guys his size because at this point, almost all of them are stronger than he is. Gasol is at PF usually because he has great quickness around the basket, and can face up very effectively. Also he never put on much weight, so at center, he gets murdered defensively (the same thing happened to Amare). Spencer should be able to put on weight with his frame. Right now, I don't think he can post up C's or PFs consistently because of his lack of strength. If he adds significant strength, he should be able to bang with centers, but he'll just be way too slow for PF's.

Spencer might be better served at PF at this very moment, but in order for him to stay that way, he can't put on much more weight because he already will really lack quickness as it is. And if he doesn't put on much more weight, I don't think he'll be able to post up much, and unlike Gasol, he won't be able to use his quickness against other PFs.

You also compare him to Dirk, but Dirk doesn't really have much of a post game because of his lack of strength. And as good as Dirk is, I don't want Spencer playing like that.

[Ballings7]

No.

[_SRV_]

It really all depends on how much strength he can naturally add to his frame, right now he's more a PF than he is a C.

[BMiller52]

It really all depends on how much strength he can naturally add to his frame, right now he's more a PF than he is a C.

That's what I'm trying to say man. I mean he has an inside and outside game, he's not that strong, and he's more athletic than he was given credit for. He's also not a great rebounder but he's a decent shotblocker(atleast it looks that way). So why not see if you can pair him up with a big man like Thabeet who's a natural center and be more physically imposing. I'm confident Spencer can defend Aldridge who hangs out at the FT line, and Gasol who isn't going to out-athlete him OR overpower him like a center would, better than he'd defend an Oden or Bynum who are both going to out leap him and for a while out muscle him. A guy like Thabeet who is like 7'3'' and athletic would be able to handle those guys A LOT better than Spencer would.

[pillwenney]

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That's what I'm trying to say man. I mean he has an inside and outside game, he's not that strong, and he's more athletic than he was given credit for. He's also not a great rebounder but he's a decent shotblocker(atleast it looks that way). So why not see if you can pair him up with a big man like Thabeet who's a natural center and be more physically imposing. I'm confident Spencer can defend Aldridge who hangs out at the FT line, and Gasol who isn't going to out-athlete him OR overpower him like a center would, better than he'd defend an Oden or Bynum who are both going to out leap him and for a while out muscle him. A guy like Thabeet who is like 7'3'' and athletic would be able to handle those guys A LOT better than Spencer would.

But the last thing we should do is put him in a position where he would be more prone to use his outside game. I mean it's nice and everything, but if there was one thing that the early 00's Kings teams taught me, it's that if you have a big man that can score down low, you use him.

And I just think you're thinking too much in the present. Right now Spencer is weaker and more athletic than he'll be at any other point in his career. He will get a lot stronger and thus will lose a little bit of the quickness and athleticism that he already has.

Gasol is much quicker than Spencer. That is a big strength in Gasol's game outside of just his skill. You act like Gasol is on Dirk's level athletically--he's not. Not to mention that he'll get absolutely destroyed by Amare.

Spencer will eventually be able to handle the league's centers just fine. You just have to remind yourself that the Spencer we see right now is not the Spencer that will be there in a couple of years.

[BMiller52]

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But the last thing we should do is put him in a position where he would be more prone to use his outside game. I mean it's nice and everything, but if there was one thing that the early 00's Kings teams taught me, it's that if you have a big man that can score down low, you use him.

And I just think you're thinking too much in the present. Right now Spencer is weaker and more athletic than he'll be at any other point in his career. He will get a lot stronger and thus will lose a little bit of the quickness and athleticism that he already has.

Gasol is much quicker than Spencer. That is a big strength in Gasol's game outside of just his skill. You act like Gasol is on Dirk's level athletically--he's not. Not to mention that he'll get absolutely destroyed by Amare.

Spencer will eventually be able to handle the league's centers just fine. You just have to remind yourself that the Spencer we see right now is not the Spencer that will be there in a couple of years.

I just don't see how he'll deal with the Odens and Bynums of the league. I mean are you telling me we should pass on a guy like DeAndre Jordan if he's there instead of going with a twin towers approach? Or we shouldn't draft JaVale McGee(in all fairness McGee might turn out to be more of a PF anyway) even if he really impresses the Kings in workouts? I mean I just see a frontcourt of like Arthur/Hawes getting kinda mangled by a frontcourt of like Gasol/Bynum even though Arthur's a good defender, I think he'd be too small to take Bynum because he's a pure PF and then either Arthur(or whatever other PF we draft) is getting overpowered or Hawes is getting out athletic'ed(so to speak, I'm sure that's not a word though but you get what I mean) by Bynum. Now if we have a guy like Jordan or even Thabeet guarding the rim and able to closely match a Bynum or Oden sizewise AND athletically that would be better IMO. Just like if Marreese Speights and Hawes are paired I think the same thing would happen. I like the idea of Hawes and Jordan or Hawes and Thabeet.

[ICMTM]

With the way the Kings use center's a post up game is optional anyway so who cares? I think we should look into who's playing next to Spencer versus what position he's playing. He's going to play on the offensive end more like a Gasol anyway because that's his skill set, but defensively he'll be playing the Ilgauskas' and Ming's of the league. Some guys you just can't shut down anyway, so if Bynum turns out to be a beast then it really doesn't matter who's on him?

[pillwenney]

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I just don't see how he'll deal with the Odens and Bynums of the league. I mean are you telling me we should pass on a guy like DeAndre Jordan if he's there instead of going with a twin towers approach? Or we shouldn't draft JaVale McGee(in all fairness McGee might turn out to be more of a PF anyway) even if he really impresses the Kings in workouts? I mean I just see a frontcourt of like Arthur/Hawes getting kinda mangled by a frontcourt of like Gasol/Bynum even though Arthur's a good defender, I think he'd be too small to take Bynum because he's a pure PF and then either Arthur(or whatever other PF we draft) is getting overpowered or Hawes is getting out athletic'ed(so to speak, I'm sure that's not a word though but you get what I mean) by Bynum. Now if we have a guy like Jordan or even Thabeet guarding the rim and able to closely match a Bynum or Oden sizewise AND athletically that would be better IMO. Just like if Marreese Speights and Hawes are paired I think the same thing would happen. I like the idea of Hawes and Jordan or Hawes and Thabeet.

Again, I think you're thinking too much in the present. I mean by the time Spencer will be hitting his prime, Gasol will be out of his. And I still just think you're looking way too much at what Spencer is right now. He is going to get a lot stronger. Even if he didn't work out much (which I fully expect him to, obviously), he's going to get stronger over the next couple of years just by virtue of the fact that his body will mature more.

I see what you're saying, but I also don't think that we should base our future around what we think other teams will look like. I just don't think any team can win a championship like that. Not to mention that Thabeet would be a considerable reach at 12 (and would get pushed around by Oden and Bynum just as much as Spencer anyway), and that Jordan likely won't be available (and I doubt Geoff would pick him).

But looking at it strictly for Spencer, you have to look at the pros and cons of the situation. The way I see it, there are 3 possibilities (assuming that if he were to play center, he would definitely bulk up).

If he were to play at PF and bulk up...

Pro's
He's be able to post up very effectively
His rebounding wouldn't look so bad

Cons
He would usually get murdered defensively by quicker PFs (which would mean pretty much all PFs)


If he were to play PF and stay slim

Pro's
Uhh...height advantage, which would help him in the post a little
Probably still wouldn't be too bad with his rebounding

Cons
-His advantage in the post would only be evident if he could establish position--which he probably still wouldn't be strong enough to do
-He would get murdered by stronger or quicker PFs defensively, but less so by the quicker ones than if he were to bulk up.


If he bulks up and plays center

Pros
-Will still have plenty of advantages, assuming he can establish position in the post, because he is so skilled
-Will also be able to take centers out on the perimeter, drawing the Odens and Bynums away from the basket in certain situations.

Cons
-Won't have the same rebounding advantage
-Will be hurt defensively by the same guys that hurt everybody



I mean really, the only valid example I can see for your argument is with Portland. But for almost everybody else, playing Spencer at PF wouldn't be a good idea IMO.

[SacKingZZZ]

In case any of you noticed Spencer did indeed play "PF" more than a few times this season. I don't even know if calling someone a PF or C matters anymore. I think the better way to say it is whether or not we should put another "big" next to him that would basically provide things a modern day C would bring.

[UKF]

I'd say give it a shot, but I dont think it would work out to well. Maybe just try it a few times in a game and see what happens.

[Smills91]

IDOTM.

It depends on the match-ups.

[OGSactownballer]

The other thing to keep in mind is that Spencer's abilities at seven feet give him the smae advantages as Brad against the power defensive centers - the ability to force themt o come out of the paint to guard him and just enough speed to get by them when they do. THAT is how he will learn to handle the Oden's and Bynum's of the league.

[gobbler]

I'm a Bucks fan and I think you guys should leave Hawes at C, unless your team really can't find a decent PF to put on the floor. Hawes is almost certain to get somewhat stronger and likely to fill out a bit as he ages. The Bucks played Bogut at PF his first year because they didn't have a PF after Joe Smith got hurt and because Bogut needed to put on muscle. Bogut did put on muscle, which slowed him down a bit the next year, but in his 3rd year he regained much of his quickness because his legs got used to it (or he strengthened them). Hawes shooting is nice to have at C. Even though Bogut plays C exclusively, we wish Bogut had Hawes' jumper. It would be great to compliment his passing from the top of the key (Hawes is also a good passer from what I've seen so he could do the same) or when his man leaves to help. Having a C that can keep a good shotblocking C out of the paint because he respects your C's range is very nice.

More importantly, I think in the long term, PF can better be filled by a smaller guy, even a tweener, whereas finding a skilled guy with C size can be difficult. Teams can be forced to throw an offensive slug out there at C just to have someone with enough size, having an offensive weapon there is nice.

Plus, although I haven't seen Hawes a lot, his current level of quickness doesn't suggest to me that even if he keeps the weight off that he'd ever be that good of a PF. I think he could be quite a good center though if his frame allows.

[Ballings7]

Good post ^.

Though on the tweener part at PF, I'd prefer to go with a more true-type PF, and in the situation of a tweener fitting, it depends on the specific make-up of the player.

[Smills91]

The other thing to keep in mind is that Spencer's abilities at seven feet give him the smae advantages as Brad against the power defensive centers - the ability to force themt o come out of the paint to guard him and just enough speed to get by them when they do. THAT is how he will learn to handle the Oden's and Bynum's of the league.

That's definitely true, but the more and more teams improve and gain comfort and condidence in the zone defense the more that lessens that particular advantage.

[Crimson King]

I have been thinking of this lately. Really he's not much worse athletically than Dirk or Gasol

And Shelden Williams is not much worse passer, ballhander, team player and scorer than Gasol, who is soft and overrated, and since both arrived to their new teams, their impact on the game has been really similar.

[BMiller52]

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And Shelden Williams is not much worse passer, ballhander, team player and scorer than Gasol, who is soft and overrated, and since both arrived to their new teams, their impact on the game has been really similar.

WTF are you talking about Shelden's an athletic god and a great team player and scorer... at the same time.