2 trades that get the Kings in the playoffs next season

[pillwenney]

While just making the playoffs should obviously not be our final goal, I think it's foolish to say that there isn't any value in it. Honestly try telling the Hawks that getting booted from the first round as an 8th seed does nothing for a team.

[Smills91]

Collison is a very useful role player, he's worth 12th pick.

Collison worth a lotto pick??? HELL NO. He's probably 5-10 spots below David Lee, and I'd say Lee is worth #20-23 (TOPS).

[deNIEd]

While just making the playoffs should obviously not be our final goal, I think it's foolish to say that there isn't any value in it. Honestly try telling the Hawks that getting booted from the first round as an 8th seed does nothing for a team.

How important making the playoffs varies for different teams. Teams like Atlanta, Portland, Charlotte have all their main pieces already in place for their future, for them, making the playoffs is a must, as they are ready to enter the contending period.

However,
We are NO WHERE NEAR a contending period.

I agree, a team at some point needs to consolidate talent, but only when they have enough. We barely have any talent, and are no where near the consolidating period. It's like selling some old cars, taking out some cash, selling some stocks in order to buy a new dream car, its okay when your total assets added up equates to a Ferrari, but we are currently at a Honda Civic level.

Look at our team.
B. Udrih, on the bottom tier of starting PG's (Not top 15 for sure)
K. Martin, middle/top tier (5-10)
R. Artest, (middle/top tier)
M. Moore, bottom tier
B. Miller, high middle tier (8-15)

Nothing super special there.

Our Bench
Q. Douby - hasn't even shown he can truly be a legit player in the league, good for nothing in terms of counting talent
F. Garcia - Decent starter, great bench player
J. Salmons - Good starter, average bench player
S. Williams - Shown nothing
K. Thomas - Useless
S. Rahim - Useless
S. Hawes - Shown glimpses that he can play, but we can't tell anything yet. He needs at least another year, before we can even truly conclude that he will be a good starter.

Looking at that, we don't have a super special team at all.

Compared to the likes of
Roy/Oden/Aldridge/Outlaw/Webster/Fernadez
Paul/Peja/Wright/West/Chandler
Felton/Wallace/J-Rich/Okafor
JJ/J. Smith/Horford/M. Williams/J. Childress
etc.

Why isnt it and why not the 12th pick? Collison was picked 12th in a deep Idraft(03). He's pretty young at 27 and he has around 5 years of his prime left.

So thats why its not time to consolidate talent yet. We are far from being ready.

But we've been mediocre for a while. Probably about 4 or 5 years

If we've been mediocre for a while, 4-5 years, meaning from about 04-05 season till now, then this trade still keeps us at mediocre.

I dont think that team is an elite team at all, but its a good base. Thats a pretty solid team IMO. And im banking on the younger players we already have developing and becoming better players (Martin and Hawes as stars,Williams and Douby as good bench players). Then we can add our FA in 2010 and really make a push to be an elite team.

Who's our young developing players? K. Mart, Hawes, Williams, Douby, Garcia?
K. Mart isn't really a developing player, he won't get much better than he currently is. Yes he will improve, but not drastically anymore.
Hawes? Counting on the fact that Hawes will be a star, based off of just the few games he's played this year is stupid. He hasn't shown anything to legitimately prove he's a star or even a starter in this league. In 1 or 2 years, then yes he could have proved himself, but he has not.
S. Williams? The kid can't even get minutes. Its too early to bank anything on him.
Douby? Douby has shown absolutely nothing.

Look at the FA in 2010. Everyone keeps talking about 2010, but there's no one major that we can realistically obtain. The big names being, Lebron, Wade, Paul, Bosh, but look at how many teams have cap that year. Why would any of those players come to our team over others. Why would Lebron leave Cleveland to come to the massive market known as Sacramento. Thats completely unrealistic.


It takes a PERFECT team to win a championship.
You can't simply throw a few pieces together and win anything.

Look at Denver
Look at Dallas
Look at Phoenix
All teams who have more talent than us, and they can't do s****.

How many teams, ever go and turn around a team in a single offseason (unless obtaining a top pick such as Oden/LeBron/Duncan/etc.)

We have to realize, that the playoffs are unrealistic for the next few years. Adding Ford and Collison to our team, who does that put us above in the west?
Spurs, Lakers, Hornets, Utah will be on the top.
Denver, Suns, Mavs, Rockets?
Blazers, Warriors?

It will make our team, a bare minimum playoff team, but no major foreseeable improvements, while teams like Portland will be skyrocketing past us.

The overall goal is a title, not making feeble attempts at the playoffs. Get it through your head that we won't be good for a few years.

That doesn't mean, don't try to be good. It means, DO NOT try to make quick pushes into the playoffs, as they will do nothing but hurt is in the long run.

Move Miller/Moore/Artest for young pieces.
Draft smart.
Be wise with money.
And see how our prospects turn out.

You don't rebuild a team within a year.

We are still without a franchise player, and until we obtain one, we will be going nowhere.

[SacKingZZZ]

Those trades might get us the 8th seed. Probably not though. And certainly they do not strengthen us moving forward. Don't see the point to be quite honest.

[_SRV_]

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Collison worth a lotto pick??? HELL NO. He's probably 5-10 spots below David Lee, and I'd say Lee is worth #20-23 (TOPS).

The guy is a 10/10 player with 30 minutes of play, that's a low lottery material, what do you think the players prospected at 12th will look like?

[sackings916]

Exactly. The 12th pick does not = good chance of getting an all star, most think we are getting an all star or starter at 12 but it is a crap shoot more than anything when looking at previous drafts in that pick range.

[SacKingZZZ]

I think Shelden Williams could give us as much if not more than Nick Collison could.

[sackings916]

I think Shelden Williams could give us as much if not more than Nick Collison could.

He has the potential of being a double double guy, but Collison is what Williams ceiling is and there's a decent chance he doesn't get any better and labeled a bust.

[Cruel_Ruin]

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Thats the WORST thing the Kings can do. How many times has that worked for teams in the past? Like i said before at some point the Kings will have to move some of their younger talent/picks/prospects for ESTABLLISHED players because law of averages say all of our young players will NOT pan out which the Kings cannot afford. Our assets are limited as is so if 1 or 2 of our draft picks turn out to be busts that would be a huge hit for our franchise. If we could get Nick Collison(who was picked at #12) for our pick this year I'd take it at this point.

Every single Western Conference playoff team? Every team contending for a championship sans Detroit?

[Smills91]

When I look at past drafts and view the players avaiable at #12 AND AFTER there are MANY MANY MANY MANY players MUCH better than Nick FREAKING Collison. Give me a break. Just becuase idiot GM's in the past have drafted at 12 in the past, doesn't mean Petrie will be an idiot too. His draft record proves otherwise. Draft picks are worth more to quality GM's. And Petrie will pull a player MUCH BETTER than Collison at #12, BOOK IT.

[sackings916]

When I look at past drafts and view the players avaiable at #12 AND AFTER there are MANY MANY MANY MANY players MUCH better than Nick FREAKING Collison. Give me a break. Just becuase idiot GM's in the past have drafted at 12 in the past, doesn't mean Petrie will be an idiot too. His draft record proves otherwise. Draft picks are worth more to quality GM's. And Petrie will pull a player MUCH BETTER than Collison at #12, BOOK IT.

I hope ur right and Petrie does pull some magic out his hand at #12, but even Michael Jordan misses shots. Law of averages say not ALL of our picks will pan out. I wouldn't mind moving a late lotto pick for a for sure double double guy, especially with how many "real" stars are supposed to be in this draft(2).

And what does David Lee do that Nick Collison doesn't? Collison rebounds at a higher rate, they're about equal offensively, Collison is the better defender. Collison=/>Lee

[sackings916]

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Every single Western Conference playoff team? Every team contending for a championship sans Detroit?

Really? Which one of those teams were out the playoffs for 6-7 years and built their team around late lotto picks?

[Cruel_Ruin]

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Really? Which one of those teams were out the playoffs for 6-7 years and built their team around late lotto picks?

My understanding of the point was that of rebuilding by getting a stud in the early lotto, to which you questioned which team had successfully done that.

[deNIEd]

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Really? Which one of those teams were out the playoffs for 6-7 years and built their team around late lotto picks?

How many teams were built on hovering around the 7th-9th seed for 6-7 years?

[sackings916]

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My understanding of the point was that of rebuilding by getting a stud in the early lotto, to which you questioned which team had successfully done that.

No I was talking about denied saying he didn't even want to think about making the playoffs for 3-4 more years.

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How many teams were built on hovering around the 7th-9th seed for 6-7 years?

I never said that was the plan. While that team may be around that range adding a FA, the development of our young players and a few more deals then we could make our push to be an elite team in 2010 or so. By your logic we shouldn't go to the playoffs for 3 or 4 more years because somehow that makes us a better team...we'd need a few years of seasoning in the playoffs before become a top team as well so maybe we'd be an elite team by 2016 using your logic

[deNIEd]

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I never said that was the plan. While that team may be around that range adding a FA, the development of our young players and a few more deals then we could make our push to be an elite team in 2010 or so. By your logic we shouldn't go to the playoffs for 3 or 4 more years because somehow that makes us a better team...we'd need a few years of seasoning in the playoffs before become a top team as well so maybe we'd be an elite team by 2016 using your logic

That's not my point.

My point is that the playoffs should not be a priority for 3-4 years. Meaning, for 3-4 years we don't move younger talent for proven talent. Meaning, we wait till we get a FA, we wait till we get a few good draft picks.

The priority now is not the playoffs, but instead it is to accumulate as much talent as possible, to build a perfect team. It is to make sure that every move we do maximizes the potential of the team. If our team is good enough to make the playoffs, then great. But making moves solely to reach the playoffs is a horrible move. Make moves to improve the team in the long run.

[dozencousins]

To Sackings916 & denied

You both are correct in my opinion to a certain degree of your arguement !
When i explain my point of view i believe you will both likely agree for the most part & can see each others philosophy with a better understanding .

1st off let me say outside of getting a player outside of Lebron,Kobe or Chris Paul in my opinion there is nobody really major NBA player wise we should go after if a great deal falls in our lap then great "go for it " but we should not press the panic button for the sake of making a move !

The reality is no respectable NBA team should ever tank a season especially right from the beggining !
That said if most of us are being realistic for the now our team is hurting we have at least 4 older players that are all power forwards & centers that are under contract K9,REEF,MOORE & MILLER only MILLER & MOORE have any real value but ask yourself how much value & for how long the older they get the harder it will be to get any real value MILLER looked far better last season than the year before if we ever want to get any real value for MILLER i say for that reason alone we have to strongly consider dealing him very soon.
Moore in a simular boat to Miller with the exception last year was his 1st with the kings and we could get good value considering he has 1 more year remaining with a team option the following season.

REEF & K9 (IMO) are done K9 (IMO) wont ever see the court in a game for the kings again he has to be bought out or we have to get lucky and hope he is so miserable he opts out that wont happen he will be glad to accept a buyout before walking !REEF would have to retire i doubt we buy him out . The other option for REEF is simple give him playing time next season and everybody should hope he plays well at the very 1st oppotunity we get an offer for anything decent we trade him !

The point abut getting the 7th pick is true in the early 90's we drafted bobby hurley (car crash ) he never ammounted to anything we also drafted walt williams (he was average at best ) other players we drafted in the early 90's brian grant he was good but never great,corliss williamson (see brian grant) the l-train lionell simmons he was average also & olivier saint jeanne otherwise known as tariq abdul wahad again average !

The 7th pick and later does not mean you cant get a star later than 7th or 12th etc. some of the greatest middle 1st ronders were stars like KOBE,BARKLEY,KARL MALONE & more but the point is correct usually the player who usually are the more dominant talent are usually the 1-5 picks in the draft .

What we need to do as a franchise is really simple in no specific order !

1. When trading take on no long term contracts !
2. Stay wihin the cap until the end of the 09/10 season if we do that we will have tons of money to get some of the most talented free agents !
3. getting k9 & reef off the books for sure !
4. we need to draft smart (that is a no brainer of course ! )

If we do these things i see greatness coming our way even possibly to be better than the days of c-webb,vlade & company but to do that will take smart planning & patience we do need a point guard general as well as a great power forward of course but those are areas we can get better in between now and 09/10 !

If we dont do these things then we may turn into the clippers of old or the knicks of recently and that better not happen and i dont think it will happen !

KINGS for life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RoyalCourtJestr]

I'm sorry, I'm not giving up a chance at Arthur, Westbrook, Augustin or Jordan for Collison, even if we lose Kenny's now only two year deal.