Bulls/Kings

[KF10]

Wow. 50% (albeit a very low sample size) of replies say no? This deal seems like highway robbery for the Kings imo. I'd do the deal even if the Kings threw in Martin instead of the pick.

Then I have always loved the Bulls and I probably value their players far more than guys that mostly watch the Kings do. I even account for Hinrich's bad year.

There is no one in the Bulls roster would make us trade Martin for their pieces...Not even Deng...

I will just assumed that you are kidding. If not, expect the whole Kings board will be on your *** about this issue...

[PaKwAn]

-= original quote snipped =-



True. But i'm asking how would opinions change if the selection was outright, and/or if Garcia was change with Salmons.

Most kings fans value garcia more because of his desire and being able to play multiple positions i know same goes to john but garcia has proven to be effective playing the 6th man role.

The question for this trade would probably go down to who do the kings value more kirk or beno, and is that jump worth it. I'm still undecided but can you tell me what happened to kirk's play this season?

[JimmyBulls]

Here is 5 points that lead to Kirk's down year.

1. Bulking up (to guard Billups) resulted in lost touch on his jumpshot.

2. Reaching too much on defense lead to foul trouble.

3. Bulls talent is not really great for point guards that's looking to display their talents.

4. Overall lack of teamwork. The Bulls is not a team of individuals, and when you have Gordon and Deng shooting for contracts, things can and did go south quickly.

5. Hinrich pressed alot trying to do too much to earn his new contract.

[Cruel_Ruin]

Miller/Salmons for Hughes/Thomas

Follow up with Artest trade for Barbosa/15th to Phoenix

Augustin (12th)/Barbosa
Martin/Douby
Hughes/Garcia/Batum (15th)
TThomas/Shelden
Hawes/Moore

Hughes, KT, and SAR all expire in two years, and are expirings next year.

[Smills91]

Miller/Salmons for Hughes/Thomas

Follow up with Artest trade for Barbosa/15th to Phoenix

Augustin (12th)/Barbosa
Martin/Douby
Hughes/Garcia/Batum (15th)
TThomas/Shelden
Hawes/Moore

Hughes, KT, and SAR all expire in two years, and are expirings next year.

If you're trading for Barbosa, then you definitely HAVE to draft Westbrook. Barbosa is a scorer and scorer only. Westbrook could D it up. I'm not a fan of Augustin at all.

[Smills91]

I'd prefer this deal, as Thomas does nothing for me.

Larry Hughes - Negative value
Joakim Noah - Positive value

for

Mikki Moore - Expiring contract + Productive player
John Salmons - Very productive player
Shelden Willaims - Is a down grade from Noah, but replaces a young 'big' to off-set the Hughes factor.

Kings young core
C: Spencer Hawes
PF: Joakim Noah
SF: Francisco Garcia
SG: Kevin Martin
PG: Russell Westbrook

Me Gusta!

[ebill_03]

Why would Bulls do that deal? Sure it'd be nice to rid of Hughes contract but it wouldn't be worth it. Noah is the only young center with promise on the team. Take a talent from any other position if you want (maybe not PG), there will be another player that can take up his spot. But having Gray as a starting Center is just asking for trouble.

Salmons is not going to play ahead of Deng, Nocioni, Gordon, or possibly even Thabo
Moore will get minutes without Noah, but Noah is already a better player than him
Whatever minutes Williams gets will be due to the hole at center, not due to any talent he has. Gooden and Tyrus will soak up most of the minutes.

This trade has very little benefit to the Bulls. Hughes contract is not going on much longer and will be a nice expiring.

If the Bull do a trade it will be a oldie to free up space for the young guys, or if a young guy is included it will be to consolidate talent. This trade doesn't even come close to either.

[Vlade4life]

I'd do it if right to swap turns into flat out giving us your first round pick.

[Smills91]

Here is 5 points that lead to Kirk's down year.

1. Bulking up (to guard Billups) resulted in lost touch on his jumpshot.

2. Reaching too much on defense lead to foul trouble.

3. Bulls talent is not really great for point guards that's looking to display their talents.

4. Overall lack of teamwork. The Bulls is not a team of individuals, and when you have Gordon and Deng shooting for contracts, things can and did go south quickly.

5. Hinrich pressed alot trying to do too much to earn his new contract.

I'd be fine acquiring Hinrich, just not at the price you're asking. If you got something revolved around John Salmons as the principle piece, I'll start listening.

[JimmyBulls]

I think the deal with the Kings getting the Bulls 09 pick outright should be more than enough to make Kings fans happy. Both teams gives up value and balance out their roster in the process. The point guard tandem of Hinirch/Beno is a combo the Kings would have for years to come and Thomas can be that defensive minded four, with growing potential that would fit your roster perfectly. At the same time, the Bulls get a much needed veteran center and a big two guard in Garcia or Salmons to keep the Bulls from throwing Thabo to the wolves.

The deal is the perfect type of deal because Bulls and Kings fans will like the deal, and dislike the deal. Both teams are going to fill needs and do quite well with draft picks.

[RoyalCourtJestr]

Why would Bulls do that deal? Sure it'd be nice to rid of Hughes contract but it wouldn't be worth it. Noah is the only young center with promise on the team. Take a talent from any other position if you want (maybe not PG), there will be another player that can take up his spot. But having Gray as a starting Center is just asking for trouble.

Salmons is not going to play ahead of Deng, Nocioni, Gordon, or possibly even Thabo
Moore will get minutes without Noah, but Noah is already a better player than him
Whatever minutes Williams gets will be due to the hole at center, not due to any talent he has. Gooden and Tyrus will soak up most of the minutes.

Thats assuming both resign. Which is unlikely.

[ebill_03]

Who do you mean by both? Deng and Gordon? Either way Salmons wouldn't be very high up on the depth charts to make it worth it for him to be the principle trading piece for what is essentially Noah.

People need to consider the position of the other team when they propose trades. Depth/talent, direction, and contract situation. Doing trades that lead to immediate step backs with no real benefits in the near or long term while at the same time messing up the rotation does nothing.

Lets assume only one of Deng/Gordon resigns, and to make it even easier for you, they just walk, no trade.

So Salmons is now trying to get minutes at 2/3 behind DengORGordon, Hinrich, Nocioni, Tyrus, Thabo and even Duhon if he stays.

Moore will be behind Gooden, Nocioni, Tyrus. His chances are at Center if he can handle it and even there he'd have to fight for minutes with Gray, Shelden is buried behind all those guys above.

Hinrich/Thabo
Thabo/Gordon/Salmons
Nocioni/Thabo/Thomas/Salmons
Gooden/Thomas/Moore/Williams
Gray/Moore

Is losing Hughes so important that they would be willing to take on what is essentially garbage talent for the team and lose Noah? I really don't think so.

If Bulls do a trade it will be to consolidate talent, not to thin it out even more.

[longfellow44]

^^^You do realize that salmons has a lot more talent than you are giving him credit for. He would be starting at SG for the bulls plain and simple with Gordon coming off the bench if the bulls kept gordon.

[ebill_03]

Even if Salmons is as good as you say he is

How is

Hinrich/Gordon/Thabo
Salmons/Gordon/Thabo
Nocioni/Thabo/Thomas/Salmons
Gooden/Thomas/Moore/Williams
Gray/Moore

any better than

Hinrich/Gordon/Thabo
Thabo/Gordon/Hughes (ideally Hughes is at the end)
Nocioni/Thabo/Thomas
Gooden/Thomas/Noah
Noah/Gray

Especially considering how good of a player Thabo is when he starts and he's primarily a shooting guard. Not to mention the horrible Bigmen rotation in the "trade" lineup.

Face it, that trade does not make any sense for the Bulls.

[SacKingZZZ]

Uh, because Salmons can get you 20 a night on good shooting percentages, pretty much be the #1 option, get to the basket at will, play the open floor game or score in the half court, and play 3 positions.

He could really solve some of the problems the Bulls have with being a jumpshooting team. He is a great finisher at the basket.

Seriously we have had a chance to see him as a number 1 and he did a solid job at it. I remember a few years ago we all bitched about not having a single player that could create his own offense.

[RoyalCourtJestr]

Uh, because Salmons can get you 20 a night on good shooting percentages, pretty much be the #1 option, get to the basket at will, play the open floor game or score in the half court, and play 3 positions.

He could really solve some of the problems the Bulls have with being a jumpshooting team. He is a great finisher at the basket.

Seriously we have had a chance to see him as a number 1 and he did a solid job at it. I remember a few years ago we all bitched about not having a single player that could create his own offense.

Word. The Bulls are one of my favorite not-Kings teams, and Salmons could definetly help if Deng leaves (I really think Gordon will leave unless promised a starting job )

[ebill_03]

Wow. That John Salmons is such an amazing talent. Such generosity that you're willing to help the Bulls out and take on Hughes' fat contract just to get Joakim Noah. Petrie must be kicking himself in the ass that he didn't find a way to trade him for Garnett, Gasol, and Kobe in a massive multi-team trade.

[KingInExile]

No need to get snotty if you don't like the opinion Kings fans have of the players on our roster.

[ebill_03]

I have no problem with guys having their opinions. But I am a Kings fan too, don't know anything but Sacramento, so it's not like I don't have any idea what's going on with the Kings players. Hell I'd love if I had a chance to watch the likes of Tyrus, Noah, and Hinrich an extra 80 or so times a year if they were traded to the Kings.

It's just i'd like to see people use some logic when they propose trades. It's a complete waste of time if the imaginary trades are not realistic or make sense in any way. It's why I hate Chris Wallace.