Season Opener: Sacramento @ Minnesota

[SacKingZZZ]

Our interior woes have more to do with chemistry than personnel. When the players don't know what they are doing out there it's kind of hard to stop anyone.

[KingInExile]

No...it magnifies it.

Just because I don't think Martin can carry a team on his back for an entire game or can't be the go to guy late in games doesn't mean I don't think he's a hell of a talent. I'm just saying by trying to make him INTO that guy you diminish what makes him a great basketball player. His value is he doesn't need to be a volume shots guy to be effective. If you give him more shots and give him the ball more it's not going to help his efficiency. Martin needs someone to play off of to get his thing going.

To me Martin is a more athletic, more creative version of Peja. That's fine, Peja was a big reason we won a lot of games in the past and Martin will do the same. But we needed a "go-to" guy then to finish off close games...same applies now.

[nolimit0820]

That would be nice if Martin develops a killer instinct in closing out games...it would make him an even better second option. I forgot who touched on this...in order for martin to be the MAN we need to focus on a cohesive unit like that of the detroit pistons. We are somewhat in the mold of that pistons team but are far off from the same committment and attitude they had defensively. We can go a couple different routes...a 1,2 punch with Kmart being the # 2 or a 1-5 punch (which I would prefer) with 5 players able to do their respective duties exceptionally well.

[pillwenney]

No...it magnifies it.

Just because I don't think Martin can carry a team on his back for an entire game or can't be the go to guy late in games doesn't mean I don't think he's a hell of a talent. I'm just saying by trying to make him INTO that guy you diminish what makes him a great basketball player. His value is he doesn't need to be a volume shots guy to be effective. If you give him more shots and give him the ball more it's not going to help his efficiency. Martin needs someone to play off of to get his thing going.

I don't really understand how it magnifies it, but whatever.

I guess the point is that it's just too early to say. I agree that Kevin is probably most effective playing off of someone, but that doesn't mean that he can't still improve in several areas that can lead to him being a main option. He's still young, and he's already got a ton of tools at his disposal.

I still think that one of the best comparisons for Kevin is Reggie Miller, and while I don't ever expect Kevin to be THAT awesome in the clutch situations, I think the similarities in their game show that you can go to a player like him in 4th quarter situations. It's just a matter of actually looking to do it. Not to say that that's not on Kevin too--he also has to be more aggressive.

[ICMTM]

You don't "develop" a killer instinct. They don't have instinct camps.

Reggie had a killer instinct when he came in the league. He had one at UCLA. He has one in the TNT booth. Kevin doesn't. I'm not saying it's a bad thing that he doesn't. Just don't make him be something he isn't. I think Reggie has it right. I just wish the fans would get on board.

The fact that Ron is gone everyone is looking to Kevin to be this all-star and scoring freak. Kevin is the feature player, and so if Kevin Martin has a bad game it's a big deal. There's your magnification. He's supposed to be this leader on the court. He's supposed to be the next great King. Basically because Ron is gone Kevin, by no fault of his own, is supposed to be the next great shooting guard in the NBA. He'll be 26 in a few months. The mid-late 20's is "prime age." I don't see how he has time to completely outdo himself and grow into the ultra efficient scoring freak that is an all world clutch player?

It's not him. Don't expect it. Expect the stretches where he runs off 10-12 points in a row and cleverly gets to the line. Expect him to move without the ball, and even more so now expect people to deliver him the ball. Expect him to get high % looks. If he wants to improve then be a better defender.

[Cruel_Ruin]

No...it magnifies it.

Just because I don't think Martin can carry a team on his back for an entire game or can't be the go to guy late in games doesn't mean I don't think he's a hell of a talent. I'm just saying by trying to make him INTO that guy you diminish what makes him a great basketball player. His value is he doesn't need to be a volume shots guy to be effective. If you give him more shots and give him the ball more it's not going to help his efficiency. Martin needs someone to play off of to get his thing going.

This is a rebuilding year, and we get a chance to see what we've got with our players. Why not give Martin a chance to be a "go-to guy" for a year and see what happens? He may not be a first option scorer in the long run, but this team as constructed right now does not have that guy. We're not making the playoffs this year, we're not going to win many games. There's no point in making Salmons the go-to guy because he is not a part of the long-term future here. At least we know that Kevin's going to be around. So what if his future role is an off the ball scorer? We should explore his full potential.

[ICMTM]

How do you know Salmons isn't a part of the long term plan? If you know the end result why try to change it? It's painfully obvious to most people around the league, his coach, Bobby Jackson (he made it painfully clear that Kevin needed to show the ability lead late in games in an interview), and myself that being a go to guy isn't in Kevin Martin's cards. Why change a good thing? Look what happened to Peja when we tried it the last time? He's nothing but a spot up shooter in New Orleans now.

I don't buy this "rebuilding year" crap. Furthermore is any player needs to build Martin is the last person on the team that needs growth. Hawes, Thompson, Cisco, Beno, and Salmons are your guys that need to grow and develop with obviously the 1st two needing it the most. Martin is at his potential. It is what it is.

[Smills91]

This is kind of what I expected. John Salmons being the guy down the stretch and not Kevin Martin.

WELL, martin shot 28% from the field, John aabove 50%. I sure hope it's that way in that circumstance.

What the hell does one have to do with the other? Salmons IS a better player later in the game than Martin. Even Cisco is. This isn't breaking news. I've been saying this for the last year. I'm sorry if you feel Martin should be the better guy late in games. Except for a few occasions he hasn't shown it's in him. I just don't understand why people aren't happy with Martin being a 24ppg efficient scorer? It fits him well!

I think we're saying the same thing and misunderstanding each other here, now that I read your other posts.

My opinion is that Salmons should be the FOCAL point of the offense that we run, and that puts both John AND Martin in more favorable scoring positions.

[pillwenney]

You don't "develop" a killer instinct. They don't have instinct camps.

Reggie had a killer instinct when he came in the league. He had one at UCLA. He has one in the TNT booth. Kevin doesn't. I'm not saying it's a bad thing that he doesn't. Just don't make him be something he isn't. I think Reggie has it right. I just wish the fans would get on board.

The fact that Ron is gone everyone is looking to Kevin to be this all-star and scoring freak. Kevin is the feature player, and so if Kevin Martin has a bad game it's a big deal. There's your magnification. He's supposed to be this leader on the court. He's supposed to be the next great King. Basically because Ron is gone Kevin, by no fault of his own, is supposed to be the next great shooting guard in the NBA. He'll be 26 in a few months. The mid-late 20's is "prime age." I don't see how he has time to completely outdo himself and grow into the ultra efficient scoring freak that is an all world clutch player?

It's not him. Don't expect it. Expect the stretches where he runs off 10-12 points in a row and cleverly gets to the line. Expect him to move without the ball, and even more so now expect people to deliver him the ball. Expect him to get high % looks. If he wants to improve then be a better defender.

You also can't really show much of a killer instinct if you don't have the ball in your hands, but that's not my argument. My argument is that just because Kevin isn't the kind of guy where you say "all right, here's the ball in isolation, now make something happen" it doesn't mean that he can't be a main option down the stretch. Miller was merely an example of a player like that. He was never in isolation, but he was one of the great clutch scorers.

All I'm saying is that Kevin hasn't been made an option in that kind of context to really show what he can do.

How do you know Salmons isn't a part of the long term plan? If you know the end result why try to change it? It's painfully obvious to most people around the league, his coach, Bobby Jackson (he made it painfully clear that Kevin needed to show the ability lead late in games in an interview), and myself that being a go to guy isn't in Kevin Martin's cards. Why change a good thing? Look what happened to Peja when we tried it the last time? He's nothing but a spot up shooter in New Orleans now.

I don't buy this "rebuilding year" crap. Furthermore is any player needs to build Martin is the last person on the team that needs growth. Hawes, Thompson, Cisco, Beno, and Salmons are your guys that need to grow and develop with obviously the 1st two needing it the most. Martin is at his potential. It is what it is.

Peja is a spot up shooter because rather than moving without the ball, he now plays with a playmaker that moves with the ball, in a matter of speaking. Also he's less mobile than he used to be, due to some bad injuries. It's not because we tried to make him the 1st option.

Salmons not being in the long term plans isn't a certainty, but he is already almost 29, so any kind of further development from him is unlikely. He is in his prime much more so than Kevin.

I'm not saying that Kevin will be a real go-to guy. Few wing players really can be. But I think that if used differently, he could be much more effective in that capacity. If you just handed the ball to Reggie Miller in stand-alone isolation plays, he wouldn't have been nearly as effective in crunch time as he was.

[ICMTM]

For the record I like Martin! I like his game, and I think his game compliments A LOT of people in this league. He has a game that's fun to watch, it's entertaining, and it's unique. I'm not buying this he needs to be this guy or that guy. I think he needs to keep doing what he's doing. He, and the Kings, will be better for it. If he tries to be this ball dominating hog that shoulders the load night in and out my opinion is he won't be as successful.

[ICMTM]

You don't "develop" a killer instinct. They don't have instinct camps.

Reggie had a killer instinct when he came in the league. He had one at UCLA. He has one in the TNT booth. Kevin doesn't. I'm not saying it's a bad thing that he doesn't. Just don't make him be something he isn't. I think Reggie has it right. I just wish the fans would get on board.

The fact that Ron is gone everyone is looking to Kevin to be this all-star and scoring freak. Kevin is the feature player, and so if Kevin Martin has a bad game it's a big deal. There's your magnification. He's supposed to be this leader on the court. He's supposed to be the next great King. Basically because Ron is gone Kevin, by no fault of his own, is supposed to be the next great shooting guard in the NBA. He'll be 26 in a few months. The mid-late 20's is "prime age." I don't see how he has time to completely outdo himself and grow into the ultra efficient scoring freak that is an all world clutch player?

It's not him. Don't expect it. Expect the stretches where he runs off 10-12 points in a row and cleverly gets to the line. Expect him to move without the ball, and even more so now expect people to deliver him the ball. Expect him to get high % looks. If he wants to improve then be a better defender.

You also can't really show much of a killer instinct if you don't have the ball in your hands, but that's not my argument. My argument is that just because Kevin isn't the kind of guy where you say "all right, here's the ball in isolation, now make something happen" it doesn't mean that he can't be a main option down the stretch. Miller was merely an example of a player like that. He was never in isolation, but he was one of the great clutch scorers.

All I'm saying is that Kevin hasn't been made an option in that kind of context to really show what he can do.

How do you know Salmons isn't a part of the long term plan? If you know the end result why try to change it? It's painfully obvious to most people around the league, his coach, Bobby Jackson (he made it painfully clear that Kevin needed to show the ability lead late in games in an interview), and myself that being a go to guy isn't in Kevin Martin's cards. Why change a good thing? Look what happened to Peja when we tried it the last time? He's nothing but a spot up shooter in New Orleans now.

I don't buy this "rebuilding year" crap. Furthermore is any player needs to build Martin is the last person on the team that needs growth. Hawes, Thompson, Cisco, Beno, and Salmons are your guys that need to grow and develop with obviously the 1st two needing it the most. Martin is at his potential. It is what it is.

Peja is a spot up shooter because rather than moving without the ball, he now plays with a playmaker that moves with the ball, in a matter of speaking. Also he's less mobile than he used to be, due to some bad injuries. It's not because we tried to make him the 1st option.

Salmons not being in the long term plans isn't a certainty, but he is already almost 29, so any kind of further development from him is unlikely. He is in his prime much more so than Kevin.

I'm not saying that Kevin will be a real go-to guy. Few wing players really can be. But I think that if used differently, he could be much more effective in that capacity. If you just handed the ball to Reggie Miller in stand-alone isolation plays, he wouldn't have been nearly as effective in crunch time as he was.

Reggie would run on the concourse to get the ball if he had to. I've never seen than movement from Martin. Furthermore all the development with KMart has been WITH the ball and not WITHOUT the ball. If Martin were to pattern himself after Miller more so than say a DWade type then it would work. That's not what I've seen.

Salmon's skill set and playing ability CAN improve because he's never gotten the minutes he's about to.

Peja regressed while he was here and that was before his injuries and AFTER Webber was gone. Once in the spotlight he choked. I don't want to see that from Martin. I think is tougher mentally, but the point is that Martin's style of play doesn't lend itself to carrying a team on its back. Miller is an extreme case. If Martin gets to that level then great, but I think we agree here. I'm really saying if you give Martin the ball a-la Kobe, LeBron, DWade he's not going to be as successful as if he keeps his style of play. If the Kings want to run him off screens all day and feature him in that manner then it could work. It doesn't appear that is the game plan.

[pillwenney]

Reggie would run on the concourse to get the ball if he had to. I've never seen than movement from Martin. Furthermore all the development with KMart has been WITH the ball and not WITHOUT the ball. If Martin were to pattern himself after Miller more so than say a DWade type then it would work. That's not what I've seen.

Salmon's skill set and playing ability CAN improve because he's never gotten the minutes he's about to.

Peja regressed while he was here and that was before his injuries and AFTER Webber was gone. Once in the spotlight he choked. I don't want to see that from Martin. I think is tougher mentally, but the point is that Martin's style of play doesn't lend itself to carrying a team on its back. Miller is an extreme case. If Martin gets to that level then great, but I think we agree here. I'm really saying if you give Martin the ball a-la Kobe, LeBron, DWade he's not going to be as successful as if he keeps his style of play. If the Kings want to run him off screens all day and feature him in that manner then it could work. It doesn't appear that is the game plan.

You haven't seen Martin pattern himself on Miller more than Wade? I'm not sure we're watching the same player. I mean I guess he's like a hybrid between the two because he plays a little more like Wade once he gets the ball but he moves without the ball to get it in an advantageous scoring position like Miller--as opposed to Wade who typically gets it and then creates his own advantageous scoring position. Now I don't expect him to be Reggie Miller come crunch time necessarily, but the point is that a player like that can work in that situation.

And I think the team still may be headed into that direction, but it's way too early to say. Losing Ron changed everything and we only have one game to go off of for this year. But regardless, an offense like that would require a lot of practice and chemistry that this team likely won't develop for a while.

As for Peja, I think it's pretty clear that he played off of Vlade more than Webber. I think that was pretty clearly shown by the 04 season where, without Webber he was an MVP candidate. I think what that indicates is that he certainly always needed somebody to play off of--but not necessarily a superstar.

[ICMTM]

"
You haven't seen Martin pattern himself on Miller more than Wade? I'm not sure we're watching the same player.
"

We aren't, and neither are the Magic according to their play by play radio commentator. Their scouting report says they are worried about Salmons and Martin driving into the lane and getting D12 in foul trouble. He also said that was a bigger concern than Rashad Lewis playing Spencer Hawes on their defensive end.

If teams are expecting Martin to play off the dribble obviously they are seeing the same trend I am.

[pillwenney]

"
You haven't seen Martin pattern himself on Miller more than Wade? I'm not sure we're watching the same player.
"

We aren't, and neither are the Magic according to their play by play radio commentator. Their scouting report says they are worried about Salmons and Martin driving into the lane and getting D12 in foul trouble. He also said that was a bigger concern than Rashad Lewis playing Spencer Hawes on their defensive end.

If teams are expecting Martin to play off the dribble obviously they are seeing the same trend I am.

Other teams (and fans) just look at Kevin's numbers and assume certain things about his game. That doesn't make it right. I think most here would agree that Kevin primarily plays off the ball. That doesn't mean that he is exactly like a Reggie or Peja in that he's purely a shooter here, but the point is that he often catches the ball in motion, with the defender already on his heels and he uses this to get his points. That's much more often the case than just getting the ball in a more typical isolation situation--particularly when we have somebody like Brad around, who Kevin can play off of.

[ICMTM]

I don't agree with that right now. In years past he has, but he's played on the ball more through the preseason and early parts of the year with mixed results.

[pillwenney]

I don't agree with that right now. In years past he has, but he's played on the ball more through the preseason and early parts of the year with mixed results.

Well yeah, because we have nobody for him to play off or right now. Spencer isn't experienced or consistent enough to play Brad's role. But even still he's playing off the ball plenty more than your average high-scoring wing.

[CWEBB#4+Kings]

To me it seems like Kevin is playing more on the ball especially during the Magic game. Once Spencer gains the knowledge of being that play maker role of Brad, Martin is going to start playing off the ball more often. He has been playing off the ball lately, but doesn't seem as confident as he would with the ball. But for now he has to, and has been playing on the ball as he waits for Spencer to gain the experience as Mitch mentioned. I don't think Martin has his confidence and trust in Spencer as he does in Brad..Atleast not yet.