Why do we hate beno?

[Kodiak Is. King]

In agreement with the previous post...let's not have a losers mentality as fans. Perhaps in the latter half of the season but not now. I seek to make the playoffs. I look forward to the return of a revitalized and dominant? Miller and the emerging excellence of Garcia. I think the Kings team had a tough road trip and now we can settle and get into the rhythm of our season.
In terms of point guard, I haven't seen enough of Brown to say on him. I hope other fans can give me their perspective of Brown's play, abilities etc. Surely we will seek a point guard in the draft...
Meanwhile, from afar, it seems our young frontline is exciting, and with Martin in that mix, Garcia too, our nucleus is secure.
Too, I have confidence in Theus with this group. Can we make the playoffs? What will it take? We are not in the offseason anymore. I think we all agree this is our goal...(!)

Go Kings

[SacKingZZZ]

As I've said every time someone starts spouting off about tanking for draft position...losing mentality breeds losers.[/quote]

And how should or does that effect the players. There is no reason for that to be the belief in the locker room Nor should playing the young guys, clearly the most talented players we have, be a death sentence. We are fans who are looking at the bigger picture. If they play horrible ball because fans are looking forward to a good draft pick then they have bigger problems than just sucking on the court. They to check their drawers to make sure they should be standing up to pee.

The fact is they aren't expected to go anywhere short term. Last check Artest isn't on the team anymore so no more grandiose delusions please! Now long term from the looks of it already they are going to go very far. Add some more talent to that mix over the next two years and watch out league!

[deNIEd]

There is a difference between the coach wanting to win and the GM wanting to win.

Thesus, should ALWAYS be looking to win. Regardless of the situation. He should always be telling our players, that we can and must win. That we always need to try our hardest, and we will never give up.

Petrie on the other hand, should be looking at the team, and setting ourselves up for a good draft selection, one in which he feels he can find someone that can significantly improve the team.


Now, Petrie can attempt to win right now, in which, he would attempt some trades throughout the season to shake things up and hopefully improve the team right now. Perhaps trading for a guy like Odom, trading for a vet player.

Or,

Petrie could attempt to rebuild right now, by trading away our remaining vets (Miller and Moore), both do nothing for the team in the long run, and both would be able to bring back value that helps the team in the long run. Either in cap space or in low prospects or high picks. Getting a 2nd and expiring for Moore is better than waiting to buy out Moore at the end of the season. We save more money, make room for Thompson/Hawes, as well as potentially finding a gem in the draft. Having more picks just increases the odds of finding a huge steal.

[Cruel_Ruin]

The problem with Beno is that he looks entirely disinterested. I guess that can be said of more than just him though. Kevin looks like he isn't even having fun out there. I think the idea that they aren't expecting to go anywhere this season is hurting them more than motivating them.

As I've said every time someone starts spouting off about tanking for draft position...losing mentality breeds losers.

Tell that to Lebron's Cavs. Or CP3's Hornets. Or Deron's Jazz. And, in a year or two, tell that to Roy's Blazers.

[SacKingZZZ]

There is a difference between the coach wanting to win and the GM wanting to win.

Thesus, should ALWAYS be looking to win. Regardless of the situation. He should always be telling our players, that we can and must win. That we always need to try our hardest, and we will never give up.

Petrie on the other hand, should be looking at the team, and setting ourselves up for a good draft selection, one in which he feels he can find someone that can significantly improve the team.


Now, Petrie can attempt to win right now, in which, he would attempt some trades throughout the season to shake things up and hopefully improve the team right now. Perhaps trading for a guy like Odom, trading for a vet player.

Or,

Petrie could attempt to rebuild right now, by trading away our remaining vets (Miller and Moore), both do nothing for the team in the long run, and both would be able to bring back value that helps the team in the long run. Either in cap space or in low prospects or high picks. Getting a 2nd and expiring for Moore is better than waiting to buy out Moore at the end of the season. We save more money, make room for Thompson/Hawes, as well as potentially finding a gem in the draft. Having more picks just increases the odds of finding a huge steal.

I kind of disagree that Brad does nothing. He should and will be able to teach both Thompson and Hawes how to run the type of offense they will eventually flourish in. He would also have very little problem taking a backseat approach I would venture to guess. Other than that, yep, pretty much spot on.

[deNIEd]

Well, whats the trade-off cost of having Brad or trading Brad?

When I said, he does nothing, of course that wasn't entirely true as you said, he could be a great mentor and help develop Thompson/Hawes. However, I feel that 10 mil + is awfully expensive for a teacher. Personally, I think the value we obtain from trading Miller, is far greater than what Miller can do in terms of teaching. If we are concerned with Thompson/Hawes' development, I'm sure we could ask Vlade/Webber/Other quality big to help develop their game. The "mentor" does not have to be in the game to help out Thompson and Hawes but instead, he could easily be part of the coaching staff, it'll be a whole lot cheaper, and will potentially give us another prospect to work with.

[Kodiak Is. King]

The season is long. Maybe Brad gets traded in the months ahead...meanwhile he is signed to compete and to get wins. I look forward to the Kings with Miller and Garcia back...I think they are necessary components toward our goal of making the playoffs. Miller is not a coach on this team... Indeed Petrie has these two critical components in mind as he strives to have a winning team through the rebuilding process.
Again, part of the rebuilding process as was well stated earlier by a fellow fan is breeding the winning mentality with our players, younger and older. Theus and Petrie both should strive to achieve wins with our talented team. No excuses this year for the Kings...and of course let's seek to improve in the years ahead to championship caliber. But please let's not seek the #1 pick. This brings us back to the early 90s of low caliber lame basketball. Petrie can do better aligned with the Maloofs goal to spend if necessary to win. I seek to make the playoffs, and look forward to Miller and Garcia's return, and to enjoy the process of Thompson and Hawes development...and for Martin to Shine...et al...

and then to win the first round in the Playoffs...
and the Second too!

[KingInExile]

The problem with Beno is that he looks entirely disinterested. I guess that can be said of more than just him though. Kevin looks like he isn't even having fun out there. I think the idea that they aren't expecting to go anywhere this season is hurting them more than motivating them.

As I've said every time someone starts spouting off about tanking for draft position...losing mentality breeds losers.

Tell that to Lebron's Cavs. Or CP3's Hornets. Or Deron's Jazz. And, in a year or two, tell that to Roy's Blazers.

Last time I checked, none of those players you mentioned or their teams have a "loser's mentality"...and guess what...they don't lose a lot. They may get beat because of some talent gaps on their teams, but they don't lose routinely because they don't care about winning.

[KingInExile]

As I've said every time someone starts spouting off about tanking for draft position...losing mentality breeds losers.

And how should or does that effect the players. There is no reason for that to be the belief in the locker room Nor should playing the young guys, clearly the most talented players we have, be a death sentence. We are fans who are looking at the bigger picture. If they play horrible ball because fans are looking forward to a good draft pick then they have bigger problems than just sucking on the court. They to check their drawers to make sure they should be standing up to pee.

The fact is they aren't expected to go anywhere short term. Last check Artest isn't on the team anymore so no more grandiose delusions please! Now long term from the looks of it already they are going to go very far. Add some more talent to that mix over the next two years and watch out league!

What the hell are you talking about? I was not making any comment about fans "willing their team to win". My comment was about how when people believe they will lose, they will typically find a way to make their belief become reality. You originally were talking about how the team looked like they didn't care and it showed in their losses. My response was basically "DUH...when you think you're going to lose, you will find a way to lose". That's called a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As for the rant that you and deNIEd love to go off on about how we should only be playing the young guys because "hey, that's the Mavricky thing you need to do in rebuilding, you betchya"...I'm not wasting my time getting into that. That discussion is boring, pointless and predictable.

[SacKingZZZ]

What the hell are you talking about? I was not making any comment about fans "willing their team to win". My comment was about how when people believe they will lose, they will typically find a way to make their belief become reality. You originally were talking about how the team looked like they didn't care and it showed in their losses. My response was basically "DUH...when you think you're going to lose, you will find a way to lose". That's called a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As for the rant that you and deNIEd love to go off on about how we should only be playing the young guys because "hey, that's the Mavricky thing you need to do in rebuilding, you betchya"...I'm not wasting my time getting into that. That discussion is boring, pointless and predictable.

Well you are the one that made direct reference to the fact that people, and not just fans obviously, believe a better draft pick at the expense of immediate winning is well worth it and likely and how it can be a detriment to a players ballsackitude. All I'm saying is if that kind of thought "breeds losers" than just about every NBA team that ever made it just about anywhere sure did "breed" a lot of losers in their day. It's worth it as long as there is improvement on some level. Improvement doesn't necessarily have to come from total number of wins it can come from an individual standpoint which I think should be the focus now. Let these young guys learn to improve themselves on and off the court.

And my view is that it's not just about playing the young guys. It goes beyond that and I still feel like you aren't getting that yet. It's about how they are used. I don't want them to only be used as "role" or "hustle" players to simply support a flawed unit into temporary victory. Let them have some freedom! Let them focus on developing their games. Sure it may look pretty bad sometimes but it's a necessary evil and the most positive thing that can happen.

I'm not saying play them 48 minutes, but don't give them pointless 3-5 minute spurts here and there where they are nothing more than a 4th option and a body. So far it's been OK, but I am little worried about the numbers and available opportunity to focus on the youth when Brad comes back. Unfortunately it really does boil down to numbers. Just like I said with Ron last year, and Corliss before that, why invest minutes in players that won't even be on your team for very much longer?

[deNIEd]

As for the rant that you and deNIEd love to go off on about how we should only be playing the young guys because "hey, that's the Mavricky thing you need to do in rebuilding, you betchya"...I'm not wasting my time getting into that. That discussion is boring, pointless and predictable.

Playing and keeping players are different things. We need to play Miller and Moore right now in attempt to raise their value (or play them less to maintain some value). However, they should not be around past the deadline.

When it comes to playing the young guys because we are rebuilding, I have always said the same thing...

When vets aren't putting in effort, play the young kids. Who cares that you have a vet that has played x amount of years, if it's clear he won't be hustling for rebounds or defense, if it's obvious that he doesn't care that much, then you might as well but rookies in that are trying to stay in the league (like Bobby Brown). In previous years, when it was clear everyone had given up on games, (Bibby, Miller, Thomas, Shareef) why the hell are they still getting minutes over guys like (Price, K. Mart, Garcia, Justin) simply because they are "vets." Play those WHO WANT TO PLAY.

Now, playing to win and playing to rebuild is two different things as well. In the past few years, if it was ever a close game in the final minute or so, regardless of who brought us back, you could count on the vet's being in the game. Bibby, Bonzi, Artest, Miller, Shareef. That is what I would label as playing to "win" putting in the best possible lineup in crunch times, meaning most likely your player with the most experience. Instead, we should be playing the players that brought us back (Thesus appears to do this, Petrie/Muss never did).