Oct 7- Kings vs Blazer Preseason Game 7PM PST CSNET

[Seejed]

I agree with you Sac, even though Hawes played badly, I still believe that he will get the hang of it eventually. As for Greene and Thompson, hope they keep up the hustle on Friday. Looking forward to that game.

[pillwenney]

The numbers at half time, of supposedly a good half according to some, were right in line with what happened last year while playing at their worst. If you have players touted for their bball "IQ" and all they can rack up is 10 assists, wow, that is a serious problem.

I can't think of all that many players that played for us that are particularly touted for their b-ball IQ in general. Cisco has good instincts, but his IQ isn't all that high. Salmons, Mikki, Beno, Bobby (both), Shelden and Jason are all guys where I haven't heard anything one way or the other. Donte has been criticized for his bball IQ. Spencer has been commended for it in the past, but that's for his age--being smart for a 20-year-old does not mean that a guy is at all smart for an NBA player.

[SacKingZZZ]

The numbers at half time, of supposedly a good half according to some, were right in line with what happened last year while playing at their worst. If you have players touted for their bball "IQ" and all they can rack up is 10 assists, wow, that is a serious problem.

I can't think of all that many players that played for us that are particularly touted for their b-ball IQ in general. Cisco has good instincts, but his IQ isn't all that high. Salmons, Mikki, Beno, Bobby (both), Shelden and Jason are all guys where I haven't heard anything one way or the other. Donte has been criticized for his bball IQ. Spencer has been commended for it in the past, but that's for his age--being smart for a 20-year-old does not mean that a guy is at all smart for an NBA player.

Uh... Salmons, Jason, Cisco, and Spencer have all been touted as high IQ ball players and they have shown before that they do indeed have a firm grasp of the game. You have to ask what the overriding quality was in leading them to getting drafted, IQ or skill comes into play for most of them. The others have a higher IQ than I think some give them credit for, Donte in particular. At least in terms of knowing what he can do well. My knock wasn't against the players themselves, it was really about how maybe they aren't being used to their full potential. Now I know it's early and if Theus sticks to his word they should in time, but all the way back to last year most haven't yet.

[pillwenney]

The numbers at half time, of supposedly a good half according to some, were right in line with what happened last year while playing at their worst. If you have players touted for their bball "IQ" and all they can rack up is 10 assists, wow, that is a serious problem.

I can't think of all that many players that played for us that are particularly touted for their b-ball IQ in general. Cisco has good instincts, but his IQ isn't all that high. Salmons, Mikki, Beno, Bobby (both), Shelden and Jason are all guys where I haven't heard anything one way or the other. Donte has been criticized for his bball IQ. Spencer has been commended for it in the past, but that's for his age--being smart for a 20-year-old does not mean that a guy is at all smart for an NBA player.

Uh... Salmons, Jason, Cisco, and Spencer have all been touted as high IQ ball players and they have shown before that they do indeed have a firm grasp of the game. You have to ask what the overriding quality was in leading them to getting drafted, IQ or skill comes into play for most of them. The others have a higher IQ than I think some give them credit for, Donte in particular. At least in terms of knowing what he can do well. My knock wasn't against the players themselves, it was really about how maybe they aren't being used to their full potential. Now I know it's early and if Theus sticks to his word they should in time, but all the way back to last year most haven't yet.

You can't just lump IQ in with skill. Antoine Walker is extremely skilled, but on the court, he's as dumb as a brick. Making a really smart play every now and then also doesn't make a player one with a high IQ.

[SacKingZZZ]

You can't just lump IQ in with skill. Antoine Walker is extremely skilled, but on the court, he's as dumb as a brick. Making a really smart play every now and then also doesn't make a player one with a high IQ.

And you can't say I lumped in IQ with skill...because I didn't. But the fact of the matter is that players typically do land in a category between the IQ/skill side or the raw athlete. Is an IQ/skill (what I'll call it here) player both high IQ and skilled? Not always. Sometimes. That would of course be the ceiling for what they would hopefully one day become.

It's pretty clear that Petrie selects players that fall on the skill/IQ area of the map, which I think typically makes up a certain type of player more often than not. One that may not be able to get by on natural athletic skill alone or have the athletic potential as some different types of players. The simple point I am trying to make is that if they are used properly they should be able to get 10 assists in their sleep. Not ramming the ball down the lane and trying to win the battle at the free throw line. If they want to do that then Petrie needs to go out and get a different group of players together. That raw "athlete" may come in handy far more if that's what Theus is looking to do.

[pillwenney]

You can't just lump IQ in with skill. Antoine Walker is extremely skilled, but on the court, he's as dumb as a brick. Making a really smart play every now and then also doesn't make a player one with a high IQ.

And you can't say I lumped in IQ with skill...because I didn't. But the fact of the matter is that players typically do land in a category between the IQ/skill side or the raw athlete. Is an IQ/skill (what I'll call it here) player both high IQ and skilled? Not always. Sometimes. That would of course be the ceiling for what they would hopefully one day become.

It's pretty clear that Petrie selects players that fall on the skill/IQ area of the map, which I think typically makes up a certain type of player more often than not. One that may not be able to get by on natural athletic skill alone or have the athletic potential as some different types of players. The simple point I am trying to make is that if they are used properly they should be able to get 10 assists in their sleep. Not ramming the ball down the lane and trying to win the battle at the free throw line. If they want to do that then Petrie needs to go out and get a different group of players together. That raw "athlete" may come in handy far more if that's what Theus is looking to do.

I wouldn't say that. I'd say the vast majority of players in this league are relatively skilled coming in--they can almost all improve, but most are drafted for their skill. I mean if you want to look at last year's draft, the only really raw athletes I see would be (and many of these are highly debatable) Westbrook, maybe Alexander, maybe Anthony Randolph, Robin Lopez, MgGee, Ajinca, Batumand Ibaka, --that's 8 out of 30 in what was seen as a particularly very raw draft. So the rest of the 22 are high IQ players because they're skilled?

My point is simply that being skilled and having a high IQ simply do not go hand in hand, and just because somebody is skilled, one can not really use that to say they are also high-IQ players, because they're simply not the same things at all. This is relevant because guys that are skilled for their age still can't run a team if they don't have a system in place and/or the proper experience (which is probably the most determining factor for bball IQ), just because they are skilled.

[ICMTM]

You guys are killing me!

I was really impressed with the group of youngsters. Jason Thompson can move like no other out there, but it's potential I see in he and Green. Hawes on the other hand...I was on the bandwagon last season, but he seems to have regressed.

The rotations and substitutions were WEIRD as it seems like Theus was more looking to get everyone PT versus running a fluid system

Again--first preseason game.

What I wrote were positives, and the "you guys are killing me" part is because people are treating this as if this were midseason. Thanks for adding to my point, I guess?

[ICMTM]

You guys are killing me!

I was really impressed with the group of youngsters. Jason Thompson can move like no other out there, but it's potential I see in he and Green. Hawes on the other hand...I was on the bandwagon last season, but he seems to have regressed.

The rotations and substitutions were WEIRD as it seems like Theus was more looking to get everyone PT versus running a fluid system

Preseason, yes, the only thing that I am a little iffy about is the fact that after the 1st quarter, right around when Theus put in the starting unit back in, they looked exactly like the team we saw at times last year. That's kind of scary when you have guys that really weren't either a) here last year or b) a big part of what happened last year. Not to dump on Theus or anything but it begins to smell like a total lack of preparation, one week of training camp or not.

The numbers at half time, of supposedly a good half according to some, were right in line with what happened last year while playing at their worst. If you have players touted for their bball "IQ" and all they can rack up is 10 assists, wow, that is a serious problem.

However despite all that I am confident it will come in time. And I believe Hawes is going to eventually settle in as a player and he will only do that by being given the chance to fail and try again. The same goes for the team as a whole. If anything last night showed me that maybe some of the young players aren't as far off as some thought. Can't wait until friday, I bet we see a complete 180.

All I will say is thank god for the Bobcats! But even they had more assists than we did.

Considering Martin and Miller didn't play I dismiss the notion that the starting group looked bad. Cisco looked good. Beno decent. Salmons not good. I think more than anything Theus was rotating guys in and out more than trying to win a ball game. The Blazers however seemed to have more specific game plans and rotations. I do see room for improvement, but I just saw some good things. I'm not too worried about the final product because IMO the final product won't be ready this season anyway.

[pillwenney]

You guys are killing me!

I was really impressed with the group of youngsters. Jason Thompson can move like no other out there, but it's potential I see in he and Green. Hawes on the other hand...I was on the bandwagon last season, but he seems to have regressed.

The rotations and substitutions were WEIRD as it seems like Theus was more looking to get everyone PT versus running a fluid system

Again--first preseason game.

What I wrote were positives, and the "you guys are killing me" part is because people are treating this as if this were midseason. Thanks for adding to my point, I guess?

I was arguing your point about how Spencer "seems to have regressed".

[LupinThe3rd]

Hey guys. Just signed up here. Been watching the Kings for years. Overall, I'd say I was most impressed by JT in this game. He seemed active, even though his stats don't say much, and just needs to stay out of foul trouble. Also, that Bobby Brown guy is quick.

[SacKingZZZ]

I wouldn't say that. I'd say the vast majority of players in this league are relatively skilled coming in--they can almost all improve, but most are drafted for their skill. I mean if you want to look at last year's draft, the only really raw athletes I see would be (and many of these are highly debatable) Westbrook, maybe Alexander, maybe Anthony Randolph, Robin Lopez, MgGee, Ajinca, Batumand Ibaka, --that's 8 out of 30 in what was seen as a particularly very raw draft. So the rest of the 22 are high IQ players because they're skilled?

My point is simply that being skilled and having a high IQ simply do not go hand in hand, and just because somebody is skilled, one can not really use that to say they are also high-IQ players, because they're simply not the same things at all. This is relevant because guys that are skilled for their age still can't run a team if they don't have a system in place and/or the proper experience (which is probably the most determining factor for bball IQ), just because they are skilled.

It's all about the balance of what they do and who they are. They typically weigh heavier on one side IQ/skill in relation to athletic ability. It's all talent, but what kind is what matters. And Joe Alexander and Randolph seem to be further in the "raw athlete" direction even though both are skilled. And you left out Arthur even though he fell. And although you seem think it was only about 8 out of 30, those were within 8 spots of our pick, and 8 possibilities for our pick. Most of whom were rumored to be our pick at one point or another. We chose Thompson, who is still a pretty good athlete, but certainly isn't off the charts beyond the fact that he may be the fastest PF running the court at his size in the league.

I'll try to say this to where you understand it this time. I am not saying because a player is one they are automatically the other. Nor am I saying a player can't be all of the above or a bit of each category. I am saying if a person made it to the NBA based on anything other than their pure athletic potential, or at least more on something other than that, then they usually are not at that level athletically to begin with and have a lower ceiling athletically. As a result they should know how to play the game better than the "raw athlete" from the get go. Quite a few of the players Geoff Petrie has drafted over the years fit in that category.

[SacKingZZZ]

Considering Martin and Miller didn't play I dismiss the notion that the starting group looked bad. Cisco looked good. Beno decent. Salmons not good. I think more than anything Theus was rotating guys in and out more than trying to win a ball game. The Blazers however seemed to have more specific game plans and rotations. I do see room for improvement, but I just saw some good things. I'm not too worried about the final product because IMO the final product won't be ready this season anyway.

Exactly, some individual players looked good, but the team team as a whole did not and a good portion of the time they were "looking good" was in a totally un-team related sense. Sure, there were some good things, the chemistry was not one of them. New players or not, first game or not, I feel they should have been able to put out more than what may very well be the benchmark for poorest team play of the entire preseason.

They have a chance to make up for it on friday I guess.

[SacKingZZZ]

Hey guys. Just signed up here. Been watching the Kings for years. Overall, I'd say I was most impressed by JT in this game. He seemed active, even though his stats don't say much, and just needs to stay out of foul trouble. Also, that Bobby Brown guy is quick.

Which really is one of the unfortunate things of preseason. The refs call the games way to0 tight, and really end up screwing up the learning process for some of these players. I am sorry, but Spencer was freaking douche bagged in the first 5 minutes of the game. At least 2 of those calls would not be called come regular season time.

[LupinThe3rd]

Hey guys. Just signed up here. Been watching the Kings for years. Overall, I'd say I was most impressed by JT in this game. He seemed active, even though his stats don't say much, and just needs to stay out of foul trouble. Also, that Bobby Brown guy is quick.

Which really is one of the unfortunate things of preseason. The refs call the games way to0 tight, and really end up screwing up the learning process for some of these players. I am sorry, but Spencer was freaking douche bagged in the first 5 minutes of the game. At least 2 of those calls would not be called come regular season time.

Yeah, I noticed that also.

I'm not sure but wasn't there a time when Garcia or Martin weren't getting respect from the refs? I think it was their rookie year. One of the downsides of being a rookie.

[deNIEd]

Lol, everyone was wrong about Hawes

[a-rod]

bumping old threads = bad karma

[Joseph17]

I never said anything bad about Hawes because I saw potential in him last year. Whenever I see potential in a player, the player usually ends up being pretty good. I've only been wrong about one player so far (Drew Gooden). I don't count Livingston because his injury is what prevented him from living up to his potential.