Sacramento (11-14) @ Milwaukee (11-13)

[SacKingZZZ]

Great win. Tyreke is a stud and already a legit go-to guy, on BOTH ends of the floor. He reminds me a lot of Ron Artest on the defensive end of the floor. Just way too strong for his man and unbelievable hands.

I'm sorry, I know Spencer has been struggling this year, but Westphal kind of cuts his balls off here and there. He was playing well and got ditched to the bench for a large chunk of time so he could put Nocioni in there at PF. I HATE Noc at PF, I just freaking hate it. He never utilizes the mismatch it creates so why do it!? If you're going small do it to take advantage of a mismatch, NOT for defensive purposes. The truth is that Spencer might not fit this team. He's the type of player that has to be given the opportunity to go back at his man and on this team there really just isn't the space or time for him to be able to do it. A lot of the offensive sets that could be run for him are instead run for JT who IMO doesn't have the potential to be as prolific at it as Spencer does.

I think the attempt to change Spencers game is also effecting him. They have talked about wanting him to work inside more and get his shots off quicker. Well, one of the drawbacks is that it's stifling a lot of the creativity Spencer has to his game. He's a finesse big and most likely will always be a finesse big. It's not a bad thing, but it looks like it's not something Westphal really knows or understands how to utilize. Spencer needs to be given the chance to spot up from midrange, yet, he mostly attacks the basket and muscles his way inside, but once again, maybe he's a finesse player??? I want to see more pick and pops between he and Evans, Jason is really starting to shine in that particular set and there's no reason Spencer couldn't.

In the long run trying to get Spencer to adjust to an inside game could pay dividends, but right now it's obviously completely throwing him off. It might be time to get him settled, let him get some confidence back, and then give it another go.

In the meantime it might very well be wise to try and find that shotblocking role player because the way this team plays defense they could certainly use it. The only problem is he'll only be good for about 24 mpg do to foul trouble! hahaha.

[cdt3]

Hawes will be prolific? In his last 5 games JT has avgd 20/11/2blks/2asts. JT is the number 1 option as a big for as long as he suits up for the Kings. If JT get his touches he has Dirk/Bosh like game. He also plays his best against the best competition which is what Hawes does not do.

I was impressed by Hawes late dunk tonight and his big dunk vs the Wiz. He has to keep attacking against every big man and continue earning time dominating the paint on both ends.

[pillwenney]

Great win. Tyreke is a stud and already a legit go-to guy, on BOTH ends of the floor. He reminds me a lot of Ron Artest on the defensive end of the floor. Just way too strong for his man and unbelievable hands.

I'm sorry, I know Spencer has been struggling this year, but Westphal kind of cuts his balls off here and there. He was playing well and got ditched to the bench for a large chunk of time so he could put Nocioni in there at PF. I HATE Noc at PF, I just freaking hate it. He never utilizes the mismatch it creates so why do it!? If you're going small do it to take advantage of a mismatch, NOT for defensive purposes. The truth is that Spencer might not fit this team. He's the type of player that has to be given the opportunity to go back at his man and on this team there really just isn't the space or time for him to be able to do it. A lot of the offensive sets that could be run for him are instead run for JT who IMO doesn't have the potential to be as prolific at it as Spencer does.

I think the attempt to change Spencers game is also effecting him. They have talked about wanting him to work inside more and get his shots off quicker. Well, one of the drawbacks is that it's stifling a lot of the creativity Spencer has to his game. He's a finesse big and most likely will always be a finesse big. It's not a bad thing, but it looks like it's not something Westphal really knows or understands how to utilize. Spencer needs to be given the chance to spot up from midrange, yet, he mostly attacks the basket and muscles his way inside, but once again, maybe he's a finesse player??? I want to see more pick and pops between he and Evans, Jason is really starting to shine in that particular set and there's no reason Spencer couldn't.

In the long run trying to get Spencer to adjust to an inside game could pay dividends, but right now it's obviously completely throwing him off. It might be time to get him settled, let him get some confidence back, and then give it another go.

In the meantime it might very well be wise to try and find that shotblocking role player because the way this team plays defense they could certainly use it. The only problem is he'll only be good for about 24 mpg do to foul trouble! hahaha.

Has that happened though? I sure as hell don't think so. Spencer is barely ever in the post. Most of the time when he goes down there to post up a guard penetrates and he's forced to clear the lane. On the very rare occasions where he actually has been fed in the post this year, I think he has definitely been more successful than in any other scenario this year.

That's how you get his confidence up. Get him high percentage shots. He's been shooting jumpers all year. How often do you hear about a guy doing better inside because his outside shot has started to fall? I've never heard that.

And there's a reason that Jason has been getting most of the pick 'n pop opportunities--he's making the shots he gets with much better consistency. Right now, JT is the much, much better mid-range shooter.

Part of the problem I'm seeing now is that we're putting Spencer at that high post, and aside from being an above average mid range shooter for his size, he's just not that good of a face up player. That's the matchup one would think he would exploit since he's usually much weaker than most centers. But the problem is that he's still often not all that much quicker, and his face-up skills just aren't all that great. And what teams have been doing a lot lately is putting a more perimeter-oriented matchup on him (tonight Ilyasova guarded him a lot at the high post), and having them just basically all over him. And since he doesn't have great faceup skills, he can't do a lot about it with consistent success. This is still good to a degree since he's still essentially pulling a defender away from the basket, but it's only so useful. What we should be doing when he is facing matchups like that is feeding it into him in the post over and over. Spencer can succeed against smaller players in the post. He won't get pushed out of position as easily, and he can usually get a better look. We're just not exploiting this enough.

Like I've said before, I think that if we can get a defensive center, I'd prefer to start him and bring Spencer off the bench. Let Spencer lead the bench and be a first option. Feed him in the post, and then use him like he has been used when he plays with Tyreke. He has shown he can succeed down low when given the opportunity. He's just not really getting it, and it doesn't help that he's generally stinking it up in every other way.

[KF10]

I still believe that Hawes' lack of strength around the basket in general, is the reason why we see Hawes struggling overall. I knew he will have this type of season. (A lackluster season). Hawes' biggest asset is his skills around the post but his premature level of his body virtually regulates him to the high post and shoot jumpers all the time. And as we know, he is not effective in the high post consistently. I said it earlier in the season, he needs another offseason to gain strength and muscle mass to be at his ideal weight.

Until then, I kinda have my mind straight already in terms of acknowledging that Hawes will not have a good season until he gets to the appropriate weight level. I think we should accept the fact that he will continue his lackluster play probably the whole season.

[ICMTM]

So Spencer got neutered? When you look at Donte Greene, who's been sent to the D-League, and how he's been able to improve his game there shouldn't be any excuses for Spence. We're 26 games into the season now. Slumps are 5 games, a few weeks, etc etc. Right now I'm looking at this guy like he just doesn't have it. Yes it hasn't been all bad, but really when do we stop blaming other people for his inability to work hard at his game?

[king125]

I think Spencer has the ability to be a great bench player. I dont see him having the ability to play tough against elite Centers in the league and I think he is a defensive liability. He gets hammered in the post and unless he is playing very confidently he cannot make anything from outside. Just like Beno was forced to the bench because we brought in a better PG, Spencer will continue to start and see minutes until we bring in a better Center (though FA or the draft). Once he comes off the bench and is seeing playing time against weaker centers, he will flourish more.

We need a defensive minded big who does need to score to have confidence. JT is our offensive post player and I think any offensive plays that run through the post should be ran through him. But JT needs some help in the post on the defensive end to stay out of foul trouble and Spence is not helping much. I think we are really a solid defensive Center away from being a 7-8 team and maybe 3 years away from being a contender.

[Smills91]

So Spencer got neutered? When you look at Donte Greene, who's been sent to the D-League, and how he's been able to improve his game there shouldn't be any excuses for Spence. We're 26 games into the season now. Slumps are 5 games, a few weeks, etc etc. Right now I'm looking at this guy like he just doesn't have it. Yes it hasn't been all bad, but really when do we stop blaming other people for his inability to work hard at his game?

Eh, I'd say it's 1 part slump, 1 part not fully functioning in the role PW wants from him. Spence is the ONE guy that's really suffered under PW. I see him going into the post and it feels forced. It's not fluid at all. I wish he'd just shoot the shot when he's open on the high-post or wing, but it seems like he's so hesitant to do so. I think that might be a directive of PW.

Spence has shown this year that he's capable of good games, and so I do attribute 'slump' to him as he'll have a great game every so often. He's just as inconsistent as Donte Greene is, BOTH LOADED with potential, but it's just more apparant from Spencer because of our lack of big men on the roster.

When Greene is struggling we have Noc, Casspi, Udoka and BEno to cover those minues...when Spence is struggling we have Thomas and Brockman. THAT'S the issue.

[KingInExile]

Is there a reason that you didn't quote my second paragraph? I mean, like I said, I am very disappointed in him. I am disappointed in some of the decisions he has made and in his lack of progress since last year. I'm absolutely not letting anything go with him. Not at all. I'm just recognizing that sometimes young guys don't "get it" for a while. Spencer, above everything else, needs an attitude adjustment. I think he didn't put the work in because of his own arrogance. And that is most certainly a problem, but it's not something that's incredibly uncommon for his age. It's also true though that plenty of guys tend to grow up in this league.

Ultimately, it just boils down to the fact that you can't say what a guy will be at 25 when he's only 21, and that goes for everything--physical maturity, mental maturity, how he fits with a group of guys, his skillset, how he can use his skills--pretty much everything about a guy. Do we have a right to feel frustrated with his lack of progress? Absolutely. And in the heat of the moment, I feel just like all of you guys do. But then I remember to step back from the game and to try to remain rational. He's still very young, and he as a lot of time to rectify the mistakes he has made in his career.

Again, I am disappointed in Spencer--I'm just not near the point where I'm willing to give up on him.

Darko Milicic.

The standard excuses that have always followed Darko are "he's still young", "he's not being given opportunities to show what his strengths are", "he still has a lot of potential". Sounds familiar?

Yes, Hawes is "still young" and "has potential". But at some point you have to stop making excuses for his performance shortcomings and start holding him accountable. Yes, Hawes would have GREATLY benefited from a couple more years under Lorenzo Romar. But that is not the choice he made and he has to live with that choice. I don't see his decision to enter the draft early as an reason to give him a pass for development shortcomings. I see it as part of a flawed pattern of decision making. When you enter the draft you are telling the world that you think you're NBA ready...that you're ready to make the commitment to do what it takes to be a professional. While he has skills that may have been NBA ready, he is showing more and more that he does not have the maturity and (IMO) work ethic to be NBA ready. Yes, all young players have to deal with the adjustments needed to survive in the NBA. Hawes just is not dealing with it. Thompson, Greene, Evans are all showing much better abilities to deal with the growing pains of turning pro. If you look at Hawes' draft class, look at guys like Durant or Conley (to a lesser extent)...they are guys Hawes' age who have been pretty successful adjusting to the NBA commitment.

Some young guys get it...some guys take a while to get it...some just never get it at all. You can tell pretty quickly which guys are going to "get it", while it's much harder to tell the difference between the ones that will eventually get it and the ones who never will. Veteran teams with a lot of depth can afford to give young guys time to differentiate themselves between the get it and will never get it groups. I don't think a team in the middle of rebuilding, like the Kings, can or should wait for young guys to figure out if they are every going to get it. The Kings need to have a core of guys who get it set right now. If Hawes can't demonstrate right now that he gets it, then he needs to be written off and replaced with a young center that can demonstrate that they get it.

[HUBlackstar83]

Well said K.I.E. As skilled as Spencer is, he just can't seem to put it all together. We sorely need some toughness inside. I've grown tired of seeing Spence miss simple lay ups or not be able to just dunk the ball when he's the biggest guy down low.

Either you have toughness in you or you don't, and Spence obviously does not. I mean Tyreke is a better rebounder than him at this point. We are building a team with guys that play tough and give all out effort, evidenced with our latest picks in Evans and Casspi.

I say move Donte to the 4 when K-Mart gets back and JT to the 5. The only problem here is I'm still a bit concerned with JT and his foul problems. With all that said, I still like this lineup for the mean time.

PG Reke
SG K-Mart
SF-Casspi
PF- Donte
C-JT

[Nicky Nix Nook]

I can guarantee you Hawes won't dick around this coming summer. I think this season he is learning the true importance of hard work/training.

[XeOnagain]

Smills91, all due respect, i just can't believe that you compare Greene and Hawes. Greene was a disaster in his rookie campagin, now look at him. What do you see? yes, PROGRESS. that's what everyone here wants to see from Spencer. Personally, i think that he doesn't have a big upside, but then again, even if he has, he's lazy. When you are lazy and **** in rebounding, it's a fan's right to label Spence as a BUST. he'll be a nice career bench player.

Come extension time, what do you think we offer Spence(or do we offer him anything at all)? i say 3yr- 18m is fair for both sides. if he outplays his contract, we'll give him what he deserves when the time comes.

[Smills91]

Is there a reason that you didn't quote my second paragraph? I mean, like I said, I am very disappointed in him. I am disappointed in some of the decisions he has made and in his lack of progress since last year. I'm absolutely not letting anything go with him. Not at all. I'm just recognizing that sometimes young guys don't "get it" for a while. Spencer, above everything else, needs an attitude adjustment. I think he didn't put the work in because of his own arrogance. And that is most certainly a problem, but it's not something that's incredibly uncommon for his age. It's also true though that plenty of guys tend to grow up in this league.

Ultimately, it just boils down to the fact that you can't say what a guy will be at 25 when he's only 21, and that goes for everything--physical maturity, mental maturity, how he fits with a group of guys, his skillset, how he can use his skills--pretty much everything about a guy. Do we have a right to feel frustrated with his lack of progress? Absolutely. And in the heat of the moment, I feel just like all of you guys do. But then I remember to step back from the game and to try to remain rational. He's still very young, and he as a lot of time to rectify the mistakes he has made in his career.

Again, I am disappointed in Spencer--I'm just not near the point where I'm willing to give up on him.

Darko Milicic.

The standard excuses that have always followed Darko are "he's still young", "he's not being given opportunities to show what his strengths are", "he still has a lot of potential". Sounds familiar?

Yes, Hawes is "still young" and "has potential". But at some point you have to stop making excuses for his performance shortcomings and start holding him accountable. Yes, Hawes would have GREATLY benefited from a couple more years under Lorenzo Romar. But that is not the choice he made and he has to live with that choice. I don't see his decision to enter the draft early as an reason to give him a pass for development shortcomings. I see it as part of a flawed pattern of decision making. When you enter the draft you are telling the world that you think you're NBA ready...that you're ready to make the commitment to do what it takes to be a professional. While he has skills that may have been NBA ready, he is showing more and more that he does not have the maturity and (IMO) work ethic to be NBA ready. Yes, all young players have to deal with the adjustments needed to survive in the NBA. Hawes just is not dealing with it. Thompson, Greene, Evans are all showing much better abilities to deal with the growing pains of turning pro. If you look at Hawes' draft class, look at guys like Durant or Conley (to a lesser extent)...they are guys Hawes' age who have been pretty successful adjusting to the NBA commitment.

Some young guys get it...some guys take a while to get it...some just never get it at all. You can tell pretty quickly which guys are going to "get it", while it's much harder to tell the difference between the ones that will eventually get it and the ones who never will. Veteran teams with a lot of depth can afford to give young guys time to differentiate themselves between the get it and will never get it groups. I don't think a team in the middle of rebuilding, like the Kings, can or should wait for young guys to figure out if they are every going to get it. The Kings need to have a core of guys who get it set right now. If Hawes can't demonstrate right now that he gets it, then he needs to be written off and replaced with a young center that can demonstrate that they get it.

Eh, I don't really agree with a Darko comparison. He had FEW games where he showed anything, AT ALL. Spence was terrific most of last year and has quite a few good-great games this year, more in this year alone than Darko's entire career. I think that comparison is not only premature but very inaccurate as well.

[Smills91]

Smills91, all due respect, i just can't believe that you compare Greene and Hawes. Greene was a disaster in his rookie campagin, now look at him. What do you see? yes, PROGRESS. that's what everyone here wants to see from Spencer. Personally, i think that he doesn't have a big upside, but then again, even if he has, he's lazy. When you are lazy and **** in rebounding, it's a fan's right to label Spence as a BUST. he'll be a nice career bench player.

Come extension time, what do you think we offer Spence(or do we offer him anything at all)? i say 3yr- 18m is fair for both sides. if he outplays his contract, we'll give him what he deserves when the time comes.

Compare? Both are young, both are loaded with potential. That's ALL i compared. I'm jsut saying that Spencer's inconsistencies are more apparant and more frustrating, because we have few other options to fill the void when he's not playing up to snuff. THat's a TOTALLY fair comparison.

As for Hawes, he showed progress from year 1 to 2 and has shown flashes of progress in year 3(albeit with additional inconsistencies). It's not uncommon to see young players be inconsistent. Especially at the 4 and 5 positions.

[ICMTM]

Smills91, all due respect, i just can't believe that you compare Greene and Hawes. Greene was a disaster in his rookie campagin, now look at him. What do you see? yes, PROGRESS. that's what everyone here wants to see from Spencer. Personally, i think that he doesn't have a big upside, but then again, even if he has, he's lazy. When you are lazy and **** in rebounding, it's a fan's right to label Spence as a BUST. he'll be a nice career bench player.

Come extension time, what do you think we offer Spence(or do we offer him anything at all)? i say 3yr- 18m is fair for both sides. if he outplays his contract, we'll give him what he deserves when the time comes.

That's it! The bold was QFT

We're talking about progress. Not potential, not what could have been, but progress!

[ICMTM]

Smills91, all due respect, i just can't believe that you compare Greene and Hawes. Greene was a disaster in his rookie campagin, now look at him. What do you see? yes, PROGRESS. that's what everyone here wants to see from Spencer. Personally, i think that he doesn't have a big upside, but then again, even if he has, he's lazy. When you are lazy and **** in rebounding, it's a fan's right to label Spence as a BUST. he'll be a nice career bench player.

Come extension time, what do you think we offer Spence(or do we offer him anything at all)? i say 3yr- 18m is fair for both sides. if he outplays his contract, we'll give him what he deserves when the time comes.

Compare? Both are young, both are loaded with potential. That's ALL i compared. I'm jsut saying that Spencer's inconsistencies are more apparant and more frustrating, because we have few other options to fill the void when he's not playing up to snuff. THat's a TOTALLY fair comparison.

As for Hawes, he showed progress from year 1 to 2 and has shown flashes of progress in year 3(albeit with additional inconsistencies). It's not uncommon to see young players be inconsistent. Especially at the 4 and 5 positions.

I disagree. After years 1-2 I've seen more of a regression.

[villatrynity154]

ok.....did anybody see the tyreke post game interview?

ok listen to the part where he says coach said "big time play is for big time players that's what [I'm] here for".....god i love the way this kid carries himself you can tell he's one of those rare breeds that just rises for the moment... excellent!!!!!!

here's the link for you guys, the poster of the vids is quite the kings fan and has a collection of all the post game interviews so far...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKEJSgxr ... re=channel

[mobiuseinz]

Well apparently Hawes is being benched for not being aggressive

[pillwenney]

Well, too much over all to respond to, so I'll say this.

I agree with what most of you are saying. As I have said, I'm very disappointed in Spencer, and I am discouraged by his lack of progress. And I certainly don't blame anyone but Spencer for this. All I am saying is that there is still plenty of room for hope.

KIE, I think Darko is a valid comparison, and I am certainly not saying that Spencer won't go down that road. I'm just saying that it's still too early to say that he definitely will. This season may be just the thing to make Spencer wise up and realize what it's going to take in this league. Maybe it won't be--but I don't think we can say yet. Some players just don't have what it takes upstairs to make it in this league (not referring to intelligence). Some are just immature when they're young. Which is Spencer? I think it's too soon to say.

And I'm absolutely all for looking for another young center. What I think we'll find though is that a good one is going to be damn hard to acquire, and there's a reason for that--talented young centers are hard to come by in this league. That's precisely why I'm not giving up on Spencer. Until I really feel like it just looks like he'll never get it, or until we get a great, sure fire replacement, I think we need to stick with him. Best case--he reaches his potential and becomes a really great center in this league.