Kings@Jazz
Re: Kings@Jazz
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Re: Kings@Jazz
Everyone here better hope that it was just the aftereffects of a B2B. The defense beginning in the second quarter and afterward was one of the laziest and poorest defense I've ever seen. Almost no intensity whatsoever.
The offense was a massive fail today. Look at what it is predicated to:
(a) Tyreke Evans drives & dishes
(b) Shooters
(c) Landry
If one fails, (for example the shooters are having a off night), Tyreke will have to pick up the slack for them. And we know that Tyreke is already injured. So, that puts pressure on everyone in general. Both of (a) & (b) are not fitting the bill right now. And we damn know Landry isn't enough to win games with lol.
And not to mention the erratic rotations and minutes by Westphal too.
The offense was a massive fail today. Look at what it is predicated to:
(a) Tyreke Evans drives & dishes
(b) Shooters
(c) Landry
If one fails, (for example the shooters are having a off night), Tyreke will have to pick up the slack for them. And we know that Tyreke is already injured. So, that puts pressure on everyone in general. Both of (a) & (b) are not fitting the bill right now. And we damn know Landry isn't enough to win games with lol.
And not to mention the erratic rotations and minutes by Westphal too.
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- Nicky Nix Nook
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Re: Kings@Jazz
SacKingZZZ wrote:[Another positive is the play of Luther Head, he's playing some of the best perimeter defense I've seen from a King since Doug Christie.
Does Tru Warier mean anything to you?

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Re: Kings@Jazz
xx_skaterdude_xx wrote:
Oh I'm sorry, and our current offense is working?
No, but not only would "run and gun" ball lead to nothing, it would absolutely have no positive influence to the long term development of both Evans and Cousins especially. That's more important than anything IMO. Build an offense around them. I think this team could really dominate in some form of the triangle offense. You have a big with court vision like Cousins (maybe even JT too) you need to use that.
Run and gun could work in some facets, we have personnel that can play it. If that's what they want they need to go small and play Reke, Donte, and/or Casspi at PF. Tyreke would be a matchup nightmare there. There's even a chance he doesn't get killed on D by some PF's too since he's really not that much smaller than Landry, more length too. Still, makes much more sense to use the considerable talent that Evans and Cousins both have. Like I said, it won't be pretty at times, but if you can't learn the game as a 20 year old rookie on one of the youngest teams in the NBA, when can you?
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Re: Kings@Jazz
Nicky Nix Nook wrote:
Does Tru Warier mean anything to you?
Honestly, in hindsight, while Ron Ron most certainly made some very distinctive plays on defense for us, I think his best days were already behind him defensively. I think he obviously had more range as to who he could defend but I just watched a replay of one of the games from that Dallas series in '02 and Doug's D was just off the charts pest like, a lot like the kind of defense Head has been playing. Artest was a pest with his hands, and you could stick him on just about anybody, but Head has been fighting over screens just like Doug did. Artest had a hard time with screens and quick guys that ran him ragged.
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Re: Kings@Jazz
Nicky Nix Nook wrote:Is hiring Calipari remotely possible?
Would you guys be interested?
This team is a joke, and it feels like they've stopped playing for Westfail.
I'm interested after the season is done and we haven't made any progress. I'm not a fan of bringing in a college coach, but at that point, sure why not. I have no idea if it's possible though.
Man I depressed about this team.
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Nicky Nix Nook wrote:Is hiring Calipari remotely possible?
Would you guys be interested?
This team is a joke, and it feels like they've stopped playing for Westfail.
Calipari? Eh, he didn't know how to use Cousins either. I have been against Jeff Van Gundy for awhile because he didn't really fit the type of team Petrie was trying to build but I actually think he'd be perfect now. A well structured slow down offense that makes the most of a ball dominant wing (T-mac) and a low post multi-skilled C (Yao). Hmmm...we got two of those!
Actually it didn't seem like that tonight. It's hard to judge because I mean they had a tough game last night. They came out strong, just fell flat as the game wore on and sunk deeper as the Jazz took our offensive option away. Yes, I said OPTION.

At least now the guards are actually starting to use screens somewhat. Before they'd go before the big even got set, or even in the area sometimes. We run the pick and roll quite a bit, but I seriously don't think we've even completed one all the way through one time this year. Just mind boggling.
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Re: Kings@Jazz
Calipari wouldn't do anything better than now. His offense is suited for the college players. I remember one time a while back when a reporter asked the question to Tyreke if Calipari can be a good NBA coach and Tyreke was trying so hard to not to laugh. He was like "well....ugh....I don't think...his philosophy would work for veterans in the NBA...." That tells me Calipari isn't suitable in the NBA-level.
Also Cousins said something similar too.
Also Cousins said something similar too.
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Re: Kings@Jazz
Lets put it this way. Westphal doesn't know how to create an offense based on this personnel. He wants to play an uptempo game based off of rebounding and getting back quickly in transition. But what we have are 2 fantastic Half Court offense player in Cousins and Evans. He doesn't seem to realize that basically what we need to do to run this offense is spread the hell out of the floor. We can't ever have Cousins, Landy and Evans on the floor together they simply get in each others way in the post. That is too many guys playing in the post. Instead we need to only have 2 of those guys out there at a time and then get guys out there who can spread the floor and make good passes to the open man.
Best lineup would be something like this.
PG- Beno Udrih
SG-Tyreke Evans
SF- Garcia
PF Thompson
C- Cousins
That lineup provides enough Shooting to allow Cousins and Tyreke to take advantage of their strengths. And when the defense crashes in on Tyreke or Cousins Beno Thompson or Garcia will be there to have an uncontested 3pt opportunity. Which in turn makes the defense pay for clogging the lane.
I mean really it's not hard. It's basic strategy but unfortunately Westphal doesn't seem to get it. Wants to run crazy lineups that while talented completely reduce each players effectiveness.
Horrible lineups like this
PG- Evans
SG-Wright
SF-Landry
PF-Jackson
C- Dalembert
I get it it's supposed to be good defensively but really it's just bad.
This is the defensive lineup we should be seeing but we don't see it often enough
PG-Evans
SG-Garcia
SF-Greene
PF-Thompson
C- Dalembert
That is a very good defensive unit. Evans is big and easily dominates the other PG physically, Garcia is a pesky defender that can really frustrate other guards, Greene can become a lock down defender the guy is good, Thompson is a very good defender in isolation and one on one situation's although he does struggle on rotating, and of course dalembert is a goalie. The best part about a defensive lineup like this is that it's isn't completely useless on the offensive end.
Sorry about the rant guys. I'm just getting frustrated because it appears as if our coach has forgotten common sense.
Best lineup would be something like this.
PG- Beno Udrih
SG-Tyreke Evans
SF- Garcia
PF Thompson
C- Cousins
That lineup provides enough Shooting to allow Cousins and Tyreke to take advantage of their strengths. And when the defense crashes in on Tyreke or Cousins Beno Thompson or Garcia will be there to have an uncontested 3pt opportunity. Which in turn makes the defense pay for clogging the lane.
I mean really it's not hard. It's basic strategy but unfortunately Westphal doesn't seem to get it. Wants to run crazy lineups that while talented completely reduce each players effectiveness.
Horrible lineups like this
PG- Evans
SG-Wright
SF-Landry
PF-Jackson
C- Dalembert
I get it it's supposed to be good defensively but really it's just bad.
This is the defensive lineup we should be seeing but we don't see it often enough
PG-Evans
SG-Garcia
SF-Greene
PF-Thompson
C- Dalembert
That is a very good defensive unit. Evans is big and easily dominates the other PG physically, Garcia is a pesky defender that can really frustrate other guards, Greene can become a lock down defender the guy is good, Thompson is a very good defender in isolation and one on one situation's although he does struggle on rotating, and of course dalembert is a goalie. The best part about a defensive lineup like this is that it's isn't completely useless on the offensive end.
Sorry about the rant guys. I'm just getting frustrated because it appears as if our coach has forgotten common sense.
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Re: Kings@Jazz
longfellow44 wrote:Lets put it this way. Westphal doesn't know how to create an offense based on this personnel. He wants to play an uptempo game based off of rebounding and getting back quickly in transition. But what we have are 2 fantastic Half Court offense player in Cousins and Evans. He doesn't seem to realize that basically what we need to do to run this offense is spread the hell out of the floor. We can't ever have Cousins, Landy and Evans on the floor together they simply get in each others way in the post. That is too many guys playing in the post. Instead we need to only have 2 of those guys out there at a time and then get guys out there who can spread the floor and make good passes to the open man.
Best lineup would be something like this.
PG- Beno Udrih
SG-Tyreke Evans
SF- Garcia
PF Thompson
C- Cousins
That lineup provides enough Shooting to allow Cousins and Tyreke to take advantage of their strengths. And when the defense crashes in on Tyreke or Cousins Beno Thompson or Garcia will be there to have an uncontested 3pt opportunity. Which in turn makes the defense pay for clogging the lane.
I mean really it's not hard. It's basic strategy but unfortunately Westphal doesn't seem to get it. Wants to run crazy lineups that while talented completely reduce each players effectiveness.
Horrible lineups like this
PG- Evans
SG-Wright
SF-Landry
PF-Jackson
C- Dalembert
I get it it's supposed to be good defensively but really it's just bad.
This is the defensive lineup we should be seeing but we don't see it often enough
PG-Evans
SG-Garcia
SF-Greene
PF-Thompson
C- Dalembert
That is a very good defensive unit. Evans is big and easily dominates the other PG physically, Garcia is a pesky defender that can really frustrate other guards, Greene can become a lock down defender the guy is good, Thompson is a very good defender in isolation and one on one situation's although he does struggle on rotating, and of course dalembert is a goalie. The best part about a defensive lineup like this is that it's isn't completely useless on the offensive end.
Sorry about the rant guys. I'm just getting frustrated because it appears as if our coach has forgotten common sense.
Yep, but I disagree with you on the PG spot. I think Head has done an excellent job of both a) staying out of the way on offense, and b) defending the opposing PG like a pitbull on crack.
PG: Head
SG: Evans
SF: Garcia or Greene
PF: Cousins
C: Dalembert
Run some plays through Daly too. His passing for cutters has turned into a pretty decent weapon and it keeps the other team honest. Run that team and then use Landry like he was in Houston jamming the ball down to him every play off the bench.
A lot of the lane clogging problems are our own fault. Every time Evans drives there's freaking Dalembert dragging his man into the paint, or rolling off the pick (which they never look for anyway!) into the paint. If it's not that it's Landry trying to post up. Using isolation for Cousins, Landry, and Evans is the right idea, but not every stinking play! It's coming around a little here and there but how hard is it to see that the offense actually somewhat functions when Cousins touches the ball? Lord knows what'll happen when they take the time and run some plays through him and allow him to settle in a little. Hopefully tonight took some of the edge off of him since he finally got consistent minutes and was a primary option offensively that last quarter. It's time to start developing chemistry between Evans and Cousins. That should be number 1 beyond anything. They need to at least know that it can work.
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Re: Kings@Jazz
"This is draining us," a visibly upset Beno Udrih said afterward while tossing his belongings into a bag.
"We get nothing off pick and rolls. We don't set screens to free cutters. We get nothing easy. Basically, everything is one-on-one, and there is too much standing around.
"It's like, 'Keep working. Keep working hard in practice,' but you can't keep going and going and not make some adjustments."
Hmmm, I wonder if Beno will be playing next game...still, nice to see that the players have the balls to call out the same thing we're seeing.

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It's funny, because when Beno comes off the bench the dude pulls the trigger more than just about anyone else and I see just as much one on one from him as anybody else. Right thing to say, might not be the right guy to say it, hahaha.
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xx_skaterdude_xx wrote:"This is draining us," a visibly upset Beno Udrih said afterward while tossing his belongings into a bag.
"We get nothing off pick and rolls. We don't set screens to free cutters. We get nothing easy. Basically, everything is one-on-one, and there is too much standing around.
"It's like, 'Keep working. Keep working hard in practice,' but you can't keep going and going and not make some adjustments."
Hmmm, I wonder if Beno will be playing next game...still, nice to see that the players have the balls to call out the same thing we're seeing.
You know Beno is a smart guy. I'm glad he said something, it makes the fans feel like we're not the only ones who notice. Westfail has, well, failed, and it's time to move in a different direction. I know stability is a problem, but if he can't put it together then what's the point? Let Mario take over, see what he can do, and if he doesn't pan out, convince JVG he can turn this team around.
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Re: Kings@Jazz
We're really not going to win much games if our PG Evans is only bringing to the table 4-5 assists a night. Well for starters we don't have a offensive game nor plays, but 4-5 assists is not going to get the job done.
P.S...brace yourselves for a trade real soon guys. (Landry and Head) all figures seem to be pointing their way from what I am made to understand. I'm thinking that's our best package to offer to keep the core in tack and add to it for a long term bases
P.S...brace yourselves for a trade real soon guys. (Landry and Head) all figures seem to be pointing their way from what I am made to understand. I'm thinking that's our best package to offer to keep the core in tack and add to it for a long term bases
Smills91 wrote:You guys are idiots....
If you sleep on Beno, he can drop 30/10 on you.
^Shall remain until this happens

theo42 wrote:If you think Philly isn't getting better you will be shocked with how they play this year.
^

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^^I just no longer believe that evans is our PG. He does't ever run the offense any more. Evans seems to be the SG and gets those assist by virtue looking around when he's making a play. He isn't really running an offensive set to get anyone the ball. Beno and Head have been our point guards they actually seem to try to initiate an offensive scheme but as it turns out the scheme is simply to fall back into isolation and watch someone try to score one on one.
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Re: Kings@Jazz
SacKingsPejaFan wrote:The offense is atrocious. We have three reliable shooters on this team in Landry, Casspi, and Garcia; yet everybody is in love with their jumper. It is an abomination that Tyreke and Greene have both attempted three 3's. And can Mr. 24% but I still take 2.5 threes a game Udrih stop chucking as well? "That's a good shot for Beno," says Reynolds -- no it's not. Read the stats for Christ's sake. We are left open all the time because we can't connect.
Bottom line is we need some upgrades on the offensive end. There's no point being a "defensive" team if your defense isn't good enough to win games. I would really prefer to lose scoring more than 100 points than lose scoring fewer than 100 points. This is a pain to watch. And I couldn't be more bored. I miss the Bibby/Christie/Peja/Webber/Vlade days when our whole starting lineup could shoot.
The rebuiltt squad that Geoff Petrie built was mostly offense. But the Maloofs got rid of KMart and Hawes because they are too soft, and have turned JT from a 16/10 guy last year (Carl landry is ALLEGEDY BETTER PUTTING UP 16/6 A NIGHT) into a 10 minute a night guy. JT has the same career shooting % as Zach Randolph and he gets 20/10 every night for $15million cheaper.
Now we can't score. KMart kept the floor spaced for JT and Tyreke, just like Peja did for CWebb and Bibby. The Maloofs panicked.
The great Kings teams had no great defenders (except Doug Christie). They had CWebb, Divac, Miller, Peja, Hedo, and they were a couple missed shot from a ring. The Lakers now have no great defender, they won before Artest. Petrie built the new team like it. Durant was in the NBA for three years before his rebuilt team for 4 years before him. Yet the Maloofs blew it up in Evans 1st years. What?
This is why I have quit as a Kings fan. At least the old crummy Kings teams never had Geoff Petrie to build a playoff team here and there. I appreciate how bad the Kings sucked before Petrie rebuilt them and the great young core he rebuilt a second time that the Maloofs blew up. I won't pay another $ to these owners.
Good luck in the future Kings fans. You haven't hit bottom yet.
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Re: Kings@Jazz
KMart is doing in Houston what he did here, score, score and score and yet the team loses, I loved KMart's game, he is a perfect second fiddle offensively, but apparently he's too much of a burden defensively.
Also, last year, the team won more w/o KMart than with him.
Also, last year, the team won more w/o KMart than with him.
xx_skaterdude_xx wrote:Kobe gets bailed out more than Wall Street.
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Your PG can get 4-5 apg and you can still win, that's quite evident from our own history. However, the team needs to play like a team and you need to make plays from other positions. I think both Cousins and Dalembert can do that, and quite well in fact. They just need to start running some motion through them. This team has looked pretty decent when Daly had the ball on the left block, same with Cousins. The only problem is instead of running other options while they are there they just simply iso them which makes it pretty easy to defend since the other team knows they don't have to worry about a back cut. They just stuff the lane and make it very difficult to get a high percentage shot.
I would be pretty disappointed if Head is traded at this point. He's been played just wonderful defense. I'd bet Petrie isn't going to be letting this guy go as filler anytime soon.
If they move Landry I really hope that means they decide to go big with Demarcus and Daly in the frontcourt, it's worth looking at as a potentially permanent move IMO. There's something there on both ends of the floor, I just hope Petrie and the coaching staff see it as well.
I would be pretty disappointed if Head is traded at this point. He's been played just wonderful defense. I'd bet Petrie isn't going to be letting this guy go as filler anytime soon.
If they move Landry I really hope that means they decide to go big with Demarcus and Daly in the frontcourt, it's worth looking at as a potentially permanent move IMO. There's something there on both ends of the floor, I just hope Petrie and the coaching staff see it as well.
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Re: Kings@Jazz
To be honest, I don't think any trades will help the Kings. It starts by re-scrapping & reanimating the whole offense.
The last couple of games, the offense was so stagnant & a bunch one on one play, I don't think I ever seen an offense this bad. I think it is worst I seen from any Kings team in the last several of years.
The last couple of games, the offense was so stagnant & a bunch one on one play, I don't think I ever seen an offense this bad. I think it is worst I seen from any Kings team in the last several of years.
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That's certainly true KF10, it's not so much about personnel really, it's about how they are used and the fact that they themselves are even starting to realize there is no strategy being utilized here.
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I mean, getting a good, steady veteran via trade would be awesome but I don't think it will be that beneficial. Considering the fact that the offense is a complete mess. I don't believe there is any veteran in the league right now can turn the Kings' woes on offense to the level that everyone wants! Which is a cohesive, motion & consistent offense.
I don't know when the Kings will start to play team ball: having the offense be fluid and smooth at a consistent basis. They should adopt a defensive mentality. And I think they are in the verge of creating such identity. If you look at today's quote from the Bee, Westphal said:
I like his approach but do we have the right personnel to teach the young guys top tier defense? I don't know.
I don't know when the Kings will start to play team ball: having the offense be fluid and smooth at a consistent basis. They should adopt a defensive mentality. And I think they are in the verge of creating such identity. If you look at today's quote from the Bee, Westphal said:
"Right now with this team, the best possible thing we can (accomplish) is to put together a defensive identity. Put the pieces together in a way that fits. Be the best defensive team we can be. We will work it out offensively.
I like his approach but do we have the right personnel to teach the young guys top tier defense? I don't know.