Kings@Grizzlies

bibby1023 · Post #121 » by **bibby1023** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 6:37 am

Just finished watching this game, and all i can say is wow. If I was on this team I would be demanding a trade too until that piece of **** coach was fired. On a bright note, thomas and jimmer did look nice in garbage time, and hickson showed me something. Cousins is his same old self, pouting when things don't go his way. Worst game of the season in my opinion. Lets hope I wake up tomorrow with news that Keith Smarts the new head coach.

Post #122 » by **KF10** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 6:55 am

I was looking at old threads on the coach search back in 2009. I remember Eddie Jordan was mentioned. He's currently coaching at his alma mater (HS).

I think we should give him a call if we decide to fire Westphal.

bibby1023 · Post #123 » by **bibby1023** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 7:07 am

KF10 wrote:I was looking at old threads on the coach search back in 2009. I remember Eddie Jordan was mentioned. He's currently coaching at his alma mater (HS).

I think we should give him a call if we decide to fire Westphal.

If a high school coaching job is the best he could get, I doubt we'd want him anywhere near this team. I just want Smart to take over and see what he can do, if he doesn't cut it either then find someone elsewhere.

sacking123 · Post #124 » by **sacking123** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 7:26 am

bibby1023 wrote:
KF10 wrote:I was looking at old threads on the coach search back in 2009. I remember Eddie Jordan was mentioned. He's currently coaching at his alma mater (HS).

I think we should give him a call if we decide to fire Westphal.

If a high school coaching job is the best he could get, I doubt we'd want him anywhere near this team. I just want Smart to take over and see what he can do, if he doesn't cut it either then find someone elsewhere.

At least he (Jordan) would have a headstart on coaching Demarcus who is about as mature as his current players. J/K was too easy to go there.

Post #125 » by **KF10** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 7:28 am

bibby1023 wrote:
KF10 wrote:I was looking at old threads on the coach search back in 2009. I remember Eddie Jordan was mentioned. He's currently coaching at his alma mater (HS).

I think we should give him a call if we decide to fire Westphal.

If a high school coaching job is the best he could get, I doubt we'd want him anywhere near this team. I just want Smart to take over and see what he can do, if he doesn't cut it either then find someone elsewhere.

The Spurs invited Jordan to their upcoming training camp (early-December) but he refused the offer. Apparently, Jordan already committed to the HS team.

FWIW I think it's a one time deal of Jordan coaching HS. He's way too good for that..

Dude is known for his offense (Princeton-like). I think he would do wonders here, on the offensive side. I've been critical about him couple of years ago because of his rotations but I think he will do some good when the right pieces are there for his offense (Cousins, Hayes etc).

boogie-reke · Post #126 » by **boogie-reke** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 7:51 am

Man. Rick would be so perfect. we just had to blew it and miss the train.

OGSactownballer · Post #127 » by **OGSactownballer** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 7:56 am

boogie-reke wrote:Man. Rick would be so perfect. we just had to blew it and miss the train.

That ship not only has sailed, the sails and masts were burned as well.

As I said before, this team has quit on it's coach and at that point there is no salvage that can save things. Keep him on and have everyone have to keep watching this running disaster that should be able to be integrated into a nicely working team (witness their ability to play lockdown "D" when they want to) and they will lose whatever fan base they have left and screw any opportunity to get an arena built in Sac.

RIPskaterdude · Post #128 » by **RIPskaterdude** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:53 am

Smart is easily the best choice right now. I remember when we got him as an assistant coach, several NBA people felt like he still deserved to be a head coach. Even some people in GSW felt the same, but the new owners wanted to pick a brand new guy for the team. Make no mistake about it, Smart is head coaching material, and being able to keep his family in Northern California had alot to do with him not looking for jobs elsewhere.

SacKingZZZ · Post #129 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 11:52 am

KF10 wrote:
bibby1023 wrote:
KF10 wrote:I was looking at old threads on the coach search back in 2009. I remember Eddie Jordan was mentioned. He's currently coaching at his alma mater (HS).

I think we should give him a call if we decide to fire Westphal.

If a high school coaching job is the best he could get, I doubt we'd want him anywhere near this team. I just want Smart to take over and see what he can do, if he doesn't cut it either then find someone elsewhere.

The Spurs invited Jordan to their upcoming training camp (early-December) but he refused the offer. Apparently, Jordan already committed to the HS team.

FWIW I think it's a one time deal of Jordan coaching HS. He's way too good for that..

Dude is known for his offense (Princeton-like). I think he would do wonders here, on the offensive side. I've been critical about him couple of years ago because of his rotations but I think he will do some good when the right pieces are there for his offense (Cousins, Hayes etc).

And most importantly there's history between he and Petrie. He would have been the coach of that CWebb/Vlade era team if Petrie had any say in the matter before the old ownership ousted him. He won't come cheapest in the league though, so like I said, it's time for the Maloofs to put their wallet forward in finding a coach.

Post #130 » by **pillwenney** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 12:54 pm

Just finished the game. I haven't bothered to read through this whole thread (increasing anger and depression isn't something I look forward to reading) but did I miss something or did Westphal not actually call a time out until there was less than 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter?

I'm not wrong about that right? Because WTF is that.

As for Hayes, I agree that people can overrate him at times, but tonight he just had a bad game. He played poorly all around. Otherwise, he's mostly been very good. I was watching closely at the Knicks game, and I think Chuck is the only guy that played well, and he played his butt off too. Tonight appears to have been an off night though.

Demarcus was very nice in the first half. But when s*** kept going downhill in the second, he definitely lost interest. Played some lazy D, didn't hustle back a few times, and had that trademark grumpy look.

I thought the whole thing of playing Isaiah and Jimmer was definitely ridiculous. The one justification I could see was that we were down pretty big and this was the first night of 3 games in 3 nights, so it's conceivable that he wanted to rest them. If he really did say that thing about Isaiah and Jimmer starting tomorrow night though, HOLY HELL. I can't believe that's true though.

Geoff35 · Post #131 » by **Geoff35** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 1:51 pm

I didnt hear it either... but if he did say that, I have a feeling he meant that may be the first combo of guards off the bench he plays together... or that theyd come in together in the 2nd unit... which is still a 50/50 chance of success/digging a deeper hole

boogie-reke · Post #132 » by **boogie-reke** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 2:41 pm

Just to make it clear - he didn't say they'll start.

RIPskaterdude · Post #133 » by **RIPskaterdude** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 5:30 pm

I think this is the first time all season that no post game video has been released yet.

twoolfork1 · Post #134 » by **twoolfork1** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 5:34 pm

eeek I just read that after this game the Kings have 84 assists to 92 turnovers this season. That is pretty awful.

Last year we had a ratio of 1675 assists to 1324 turnovers.

This is extremely concerning for a young team that's supposed to be improving. I think we can attribute some of it to the lockout (shortened offseason) and some of it personnel (no real PG) but IMO most of the blame has to fall on the coach and his new "offensive system" which isn't much of a system at all.

RIPskaterdude · Post #135 » by **RIPskaterdude** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 5:47 pm

Somewhere, Beno is smiling.

Post #136 » by **pillwenney** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:11 pm

You know it's bad when I daydream of guys like Chris Duhon or Luke Ridnour or Steve Blake coming here just to see what things look like when we have a real PG.

Post #137 » by **KF10** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:43 pm

Found it. It was on Jason Jones personal YouTube account (& blog):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxiBQ6gPVtk&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

And:

http://blogs.sacbee.com/sports/kings/ar ... um=twitter

rpa · Post #138 » by **rpa** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:46 pm

Why does everyone seem to think a "real" PG would help us here? You could put Chris Paul on this team and the offense would be only slightly better--and mostly due to Paul's individual talents.

The big problem with this team's offense isn't that there's no prototypical PG; the problem is that there's no system in place and rarely are there any plays run. Westphal's system is built around "individual talent"--which basically means his offense equates to what you'd see in a pickup game just with slightly more structure. A real PG isn't going to help when everyone is just standing around waiting for the ball.

We can trash the players all day for having no basketball IQ, but the fact of the matter is that the players are, more or less, being told to go one on one every play with little in terms of structured movement or spacing around them. That is to say, they're going one on one with next to no idea of what's going to go on around them or where everyone will be--because there are no set spots.

This kind of a chaotic offense will draw lots of fouls (like we've seen) for 2 simple reasons:
1) One on one play tends to see lots of fouls
2) Any half decent defense is going to be able to bring 2 defenders to the ball in time to stop/cut off penetration. More defenders on the ball is also going to lead to more fouling.
What this doesn't lead to, of course, is open shots; since there's little in the way of ball movement of confusing the defense.

SacKingZZZ · Post #139 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:12 pm

A "real" PG would certainly help with this current construction since there is no distinct system in place, but it would be one of those 10 cent bandages over a 100 dollar wound to borrow a phrase. If it isn't clear enough by now, there is no amount of personnel change that would make this situation workable at this point. Well, unless you somehow traded for an entirely new team that's played together for years and don't need the "system" to at least rack up more than 10 assists. It comes down to the right coach for the personnel you have, there are a few on the market that would fit the bill. Tonight will be pivotal in the career of Paul Westphal. Have another outing like last night and the guy they brought in to give him that threat in the rear view mirror feeling takes the wheel and Westphal gets dropped off at the next stop.

This team worked last year towards the end it's just too bad Westphal did nothing to build off of that. Said all of the right things, did none of the leg work, and if you think Beno was a real PG then your wrong. He played much in the same way that he's having the other guards play, as more of a scorer, not a facilitator. The problem is really clear at this point and was early on last year, he just simply has no idea how to use the talent he has and his infatuation with lineup changes illustrates just that. It's a total avoidance of the issue at hand, using your best players the way they should be used. Cousins a being a glorified garbage man this season is just a travesty and is the exact opposite of what they said they were doing in practice.

This all is very disappointing but it shouldn't come as a shock. From day one it looked like he got all of Nellie's B lessons down, but none of the stuff that worked, as gimmicky as it may have been. When you factor everything this was doomed to fail. His history with problem players, his lack of rotation management, his lame duck status, etc. Him working was a long shot, just too bad we saw that it could work to an extent last year, kind of a tease so to speak.

Post #140 » by **pillwenney** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:46 pm

rpa wrote:Why does everyone seem to think a "real" PG would help us here? You could put Chris Paul on this team and the offense would be only slightly better--and mostly due to Paul's individual talents.

The big problem with this team's offense isn't that there's no prototypical PG; the problem is that there's no system in place and rarely are there any plays run. Westphal's system is built around "individual talent"--which basically means his offense equates to what you'd see in a pickup game just with slightly more structure. A real PG isn't going to help when everyone is just standing around waiting for the ball.

We can trash the players all day for having no basketball IQ, but the fact of the matter is that the players are, more or less, being told to go one on one every play with little in terms of structured movement or spacing around them. That is to say, they're going one on one with next to no idea of what's going to go on around them or where everyone will be--because there are no set spots.

This kind of a chaotic offense will draw lots of fouls (like we've seen) for 2 simple reasons:
1) One on one play tends to see lots of fouls
2) Any half decent defense is going to be able to bring 2 defenders to the ball in time to stop/cut off penetration. More defenders on the ball is also going to lead to more fouling.
What this doesn't lead to, of course, is open shots; since there's little in the way of ball movement of confusing the defense.

I don't think we really know that. It's certainly not what Westphal has said this team will do.

It's like Chuck said--they know the offense, they just can't seem to run it. I'd personally chalk this up to the fact that we have no leadership on offense. Nobody to make sure guys are getting into their spots, that looks to get guys their touches, and to get guys the ball in specific locations to succeed, and nobody to come in and just calm things down sometimes. It's just this constant swirling chaos because nobody on this team thinks like a PG. Nobody thinks in terms of what's going to work for the whole team. It's "Alright, I'm supposed to get in this spot and try to do things, and if someone is open I should pass them." Westphal certainly deserves a good chunk of the blame for that, but we also don't have the personnel. We don't have one player that's thinking about the game in those terms offensively. We have a bunch of guys making decisions who aren't decision-makers.

I don't really think almost any of guys are really "selfish." Not even Tyreke. I just think they lack so much coherence. Coaching is a problem here for sure, but we've seen so little of his system, that we don't really know if his system sucks.