pipe dream trade

[VeeJay24]

When you say that Cousins is a faceup big that likes to drive; that's the problem. With Cousins' size and skillset posting up should be the focal point of his game; the other stuff should be extras.

This is why he doesn't shoot a big man like %; he has to learn to use his big body but many times he creates struggles for himself trying to play like a wing. I've seen on several occasions where a guard whether it is Reke, Brooks or Thomas would set him up nice for an elbow jumper but instead Cousins decides to pump fake and drive which brings other defenders around him, forcing a much tougher shot.

Then, we haven't even got into the mental aspects of his game. Like just playing and ignoring the refs, not checking out when things aren't going your way, stopping the silly fouls and basically thinking before you react, so that you can avoid being suspended.

This is nothing new and it is lovely how some of you want to ostracize Reke for taking to long with his jumpshot but want to cuddle Cousins; his act is getting thin around the league and eventually his teammates will get tired of it too.

So I say if he doesn't get it by the end of this year; it is time to move on..........

[chad42]

SacKingZZZ, those are awesome examples. In hindsight it seems like Harrison Barnes would have been a much better player to add to this team.

[ICMTM]

The difference between Chris Webber (and even Doug Christie) and DMC is simply Chris Webber is a very intelligent person who was trying to fit the mold of inner city. Once Webber embraced all of his talents he blossomed. I din't think DeMarcus Cousins has ever shown even flashes of intelligence. The dude is dumb, over emotional, and doesn't care to get it. With the NBA you don't have to be in a big market to be big time. You just have to be a big time player. With there being no other sports competition in Sac and the Warriors being worse than us for a long stretch collectively he could have NorCal ON LOCK AS THE ATHLETE!!

I remember being at the Boardwalk in 2009 and Kings Jerseys were everywhere...in 2009...when we weren't even good. The Boardwalk is Warrior territory. When we were good we were always on TV. Simply put he can be HUGE if he got with the program, but I don't think that is what he wants.

[ICMTM]

System wise it's been obvious, a motion based system. Smart and Westphal both have tried to instill the Triangle and have utilized parts of the Princeton, and after all, this is a Geoff Petrie team. They need to stick with that and Smart really screwed the pooch this summer by, by his own admission, not even focusing on the offense. In fact, this teams biggest problem was the offense! Just a complete lack of identity even if the talent elevated it to looking better than it really was last year. The Triangle offense is not the most complicated offense in terms of set plays, but it's very difficult to execute on the basis that it has very few set called plays to begin with. It relies on spreading the floor, chemistry, and timing. Uh, Mr. 6th best offense in the league clearly didn't understand that but why would he? He's a meat and potatoes pick and roll coach. You just don't decide you're a Triangle team and then not work on it at all, Phil Jackson turned over in his grave on that one and he isn't even dead yet.

Jerry Reynolds hit the nail on the head the other night, this team needs to be a 23-24 apg team every night. When they pass and play motion they have potential. When they execute clear out after clear out and stand around they look bad and as a result the players asked to go iso time and time again look bad. A predictable offense is an offense you can shut down and teams have done that pretty much all year.

You nailed the "WHAT" but the WHY is missing. This is still a really young and inexperienced team. Look at Zach Randolph for example. Look how long it took him to "get it?" Longer than it should have but I see a lot of maturity similarities between he and DMC. We're expecting guys who aren't mature enough to balance a checkbook to be faces of a franchise. They think put the franchise on my back literally means put the building, players, management, and the ball boy on my back and go play! They don't get that simply putting the next player in a position to execute easy makes them look good, AND makes the game easier for them, too! Until the Kings want to be the really smart team they will lose. We have the talent and we have the roster. We aren't missing anything but maturity.

[SacKingZZZ]

When you say that Cousins is a faceup big that likes to drive; that's the problem. With Cousins' size and skillset posting up should be the focal point of his game; the other stuff should be extras.

This is why he doesn't shoot a big man like %; he has to learn to use his big body but many times he creates struggles for himself trying to play like a wing. I've seen on several occasions where a guard whether it is Reke, Brooks or Thomas would set him up nice for an elbow jumper but instead Cousins decides to pump fake and drive which brings other defenders around him, forcing a much tougher shot.

Then, we haven't even got into the mental aspects of his game. Like just playing and ignoring the refs, not checking out when things aren't going your way, stopping the silly fouls and basically thinking before you react, so that you can avoid being suspended.

This is nothing new and it is lovely how some of you want to ostracize Reke for taking to long with his jumpshot but want to cuddle Cousins; his act is getting thin around the league and eventually his teammates will get tired of it too.

So I say if he doesn't get it by the end of this year; it is time to move on..........

But Cousins is what he is and what he is as a talent is worth it, believe it. At least for now. I myself laid out some of those negative points before he was drafted by the Kings. He's not Shaq, he doesn't have Shaqs physical tools outside of size and strength. But he does have more skill and raw talent than Shaq ever did. There are two bigs who I think Cousins should pattern his offensive game after: Chris Webber and Patrick Ewing. Ewing owned teams with a simple 15-18 foot jumper. He and Cousins have some very similar physical attributes and offensive skills. People probably don't want to hear it but Cousins has a little Antwan Walker in him as well. Remember back in the day all the people saying if only Antwan Walker could own the boards and was a few inches taller? Well.....

Cousins giving up a set shot isn't a surprise. I'm sure the coaching staff has told the entire team to do the best they can to get closer to the basket because those shots are obviously higher percentage, but when you force the issue they aren't. And Cousins being set up as a pick and pop player in the pick and roll set is completely irregular at best. This team needs to have 3-4 options to start and then base the offense off of them. Why have they gone away from Hayes as a passer? That is probably the best set offense they've run this year. Why is Jason Thompson not being used for his shooting in the pick and pop? Or his passing? JT has looked better in the post recently but show me a team force feeding a Jason Thompson down low and I'll show you a pretty one sided W/L comparison.That can't just be the players because as a coach if you call a play and the players just ignore you something would have been said by now.

My exact point is this "act" is being perpetuated by this franchise and most importantly the brain trust of this organization. Cousins is what he is and even though we all don't want it to be that way, he may very well emotionally tire faster than most when asked to continuously push that boulder up hill, he'll see it for what it is, pointless. The team doesn't fit, my point is get the main talent on your team the right players around them and the right system around them and then judge. Right now it's like asking these guys to win a sprint with their shoes tied together, coaching staff and all. Wrong coach for the wrong players, knew it last year, knew it this summer, knew it to start the year and if Petrie is truly surprised by it he's lost his marbles.

[SacKingZZZ]

The difference between Chris Webber (and even Doug Christie) and DMC is simply Chris Webber is a very intelligent person who was trying to fit the mold of inner city. Once Webber embraced all of his talents he blossomed. I din't think DeMarcus Cousins has ever shown even flashes of intelligence. The dude is dumb, over emotional, and doesn't care to get it. With the NBA you don't have to be in a big market to be big time. You just have to be a big time player. With there being no other sports competition in Sac and the Warriors being worse than us for a long stretch collectively he could have NorCal ON LOCK AS THE ATHLETE!!

I remember being at the Boardwalk in 2009 and Kings Jerseys were everywhere...in 2009...when we weren't even good. The Boardwalk is Warrior territory. When we were good we were always on TV. Simply put he can be HUGE if he got with the program, but I don't think that is what he wants.

Not totally, I watched that 30 minute interview of Don Nelson on CSN Bay Area last year and CWebb was a spoiled douche when he came out. Pretty much the way young CWebb acted is right in line with some of the same stuff we've heard about Cousins. In fact, it sounded like Webber just dogged it during practice when he was younger and by all accounts Cousins does do his work. Yes, he grew up, and we all saw how Golden State reacted and how it worked out for them didn't we. Funny story is Nelly tried to get the Warriors to pick Webber over him and they didn't.

The franchise mess as a whole is a completely different story all together. A sad one at that, owners who are just plying the trade of scorched earth policy, whether they really intending to or not.

[SacKingZZZ]

SacKingZZZ, those are awesome examples. In hindsight it seems like Harrison Barnes would have been a much better player to add to this team.

This summer was a WASTE and our disheveled reaction as a fan base is properly illustrated in a resurfacing thread from not too long ago.

Geoff Petrie came out after the end of the season last year and said everything we wanted to hear. This team needed shooting and some interior defense. Then as this summer overflowed with options, Petrie re-created the same mess of last year.

In the draft this team could have filled either the SF or interior defensive big hole with a multitude of options. Harrison Barnes, John Henson, or Andre Drummond come to mind. He drafted Thomas Robinson. OK cool, I get it, probably the more sure thing production player available. But then he re-signs Jason Thompson, another production big to the majority of the cap space this team had while simultaneously turning the 5th pick in a potential hole filling draft into the next Derrick Williams. A 5th pick on a fourth big when you have exactly 1 defensive role playing big on your roster? WTF.... I like James Johnson as a player particularly defensively but we all watched some of the best pure 3 point shooters in the NBA at SF go for for nothing or next to nothing this summer.

[SacKingZZZ]

System wise it's been obvious, a motion based system. Smart and Westphal both have tried to instill the Triangle and have utilized parts of the Princeton, and after all, this is a Geoff Petrie team. They need to stick with that and Smart really screwed the pooch this summer by, by his own admission, not even focusing on the offense. In fact, this teams biggest problem was the offense! Just a complete lack of identity even if the talent elevated it to looking better than it really was last year. The Triangle offense is not the most complicated offense in terms of set plays, but it's very difficult to execute on the basis that it has very few set called plays to begin with. It relies on spreading the floor, chemistry, and timing. Uh, Mr. 6th best offense in the league clearly didn't understand that but why would he? He's a meat and potatoes pick and roll coach. You just don't decide you're a Triangle team and then not work on it at all, Phil Jackson turned over in his grave on that one and he isn't even dead yet.

Jerry Reynolds hit the nail on the head the other night, this team needs to be a 23-24 apg team every night. When they pass and play motion they have potential. When they execute clear out after clear out and stand around they look bad and as a result the players asked to go iso time and time again look bad. A predictable offense is an offense you can shut down and teams have done that pretty much all year.

You nailed the "WHAT" but the WHY is missing. This is still a really young and inexperienced team. Look at Zach Randolph for example. Look how long it took him to "get it?" Longer than it should have but I see a lot of maturity similarities between he and DMC. We're expecting guys who aren't mature enough to balance a checkbook to be faces of a franchise. They think put the franchise on my back literally means put the building, players, management, and the ball boy on my back and go play! They don't get that simply putting the next player in a position to execute easy makes them look good, AND makes the game easier for them, too! Until the Kings want to be the really smart team they will lose. We have the talent and we have the roster. We aren't missing anything but maturity.

Not true at all, this team does have talent but it's missing many of the ingredients that you need to win big at any level, like a balanced roster.

You can't ask it to even start to make strides towards that if the team and the players on it can't function properly in the aspects you need it to. That's strictly a personnel issue. In time players can and should grow into a level of consistency and maturity but taking a team that can't spread the floor, has a coach that thinks you can take the offense of the 1943 globetrotters or implement playsets out of the Triangle over the weekend and be just fine, and has nothing but iso minded scorers to fill out the role player categories and have it make any modicum of sense just isn't possible. This is so far beyond Reke not having a consistent jumper, or Cousins being a douche, or Smart sucking as a coach it's not even funny. And that's what's frustrating, Petrie sounded like "got it" before the summer started but he said one thing and then did another. He repeated the same actions he did the summer before which concluded in a major thud for anyone within earshot to hear it. The stench wasn't even gone and instead of cleaning up the pile of crap he proceeded to take another dump right on top of it.

[ICMTM]

The difference between Chris Webber (and even Doug Christie) and DMC is simply Chris Webber is a very intelligent person who was trying to fit the mold of inner city. Once Webber embraced all of his talents he blossomed. I din't think DeMarcus Cousins has ever shown even flashes of intelligence. The dude is dumb, over emotional, and doesn't care to get it. With the NBA you don't have to be in a big market to be big time. You just have to be a big time player. With there being no other sports competition in Sac and the Warriors being worse than us for a long stretch collectively he could have NorCal ON LOCK AS THE ATHLETE!!

I remember being at the Boardwalk in 2009 and Kings Jerseys were everywhere...in 2009...when we weren't even good. The Boardwalk is Warrior territory. When we were good we were always on TV. Simply put he can be HUGE if he got with the program, but I don't think that is what he wants.

Not totally, I watched that 30 minute interview of Don Nelson on CSN Bay Area last year and CWebb was a spoiled douche when he came out. Pretty much the way young CWebb acted is right in line with some of the same stuff we've heard about Cousins. In fact, it sounded like Webber just dogged it during practice when he was younger and by all accounts Cousins does do his work. Yes, he grew up, and we all saw how Golden State reacted and how it worked out for them didn't we. Funny story is Nelly tried to get the Warriors to pick Webber over him and they didn't.

The franchise mess as a whole is a completely different story all together. A sad one at that, owners who are just plying the trade of scorched earth policy, whether they really intending to or not.

Yes, but again the difference is Chris Webber knew better. I really don't think DMC knows better.

[ICMTM]

System wise it's been obvious, a motion based system. Smart and Westphal both have tried to instill the Triangle and have utilized parts of the Princeton, and after all, this is a Geoff Petrie team. They need to stick with that and Smart really screwed the pooch this summer by, by his own admission, not even focusing on the offense. In fact, this teams biggest problem was the offense! Just a complete lack of identity even if the talent elevated it to looking better than it really was last year. The Triangle offense is not the most complicated offense in terms of set plays, but it's very difficult to execute on the basis that it has very few set called plays to begin with. It relies on spreading the floor, chemistry, and timing. Uh, Mr. 6th best offense in the league clearly didn't understand that but why would he? He's a meat and potatoes pick and roll coach. You just don't decide you're a Triangle team and then not work on it at all, Phil Jackson turned over in his grave on that one and he isn't even dead yet.

Jerry Reynolds hit the nail on the head the other night, this team needs to be a 23-24 apg team every night. When they pass and play motion they have potential. When they execute clear out after clear out and stand around they look bad and as a result the players asked to go iso time and time again look bad. A predictable offense is an offense you can shut down and teams have done that pretty much all year.

You nailed the "WHAT" but the WHY is missing. This is still a really young and inexperienced team. Look at Zach Randolph for example. Look how long it took him to "get it?" Longer than it should have but I see a lot of maturity similarities between he and DMC. We're expecting guys who aren't mature enough to balance a checkbook to be faces of a franchise. They think put the franchise on my back literally means put the building, players, management, and the ball boy on my back and go play! They don't get that simply putting the next player in a position to execute easy makes them look good, AND makes the game easier for them, too! Until the Kings want to be the really smart team they will lose. We have the talent and we have the roster. We aren't missing anything but maturity.

Not true at all, this team does have talent but it's missing many of the ingredients that you need to win big at any level, like a balanced roster.

You can't ask it to even start to make strides towards that if the team and the players on it can't function properly in the aspects you need it to. That's strictly a personnel issue. In time players can and should grow into a level of consistency and maturity but taking a team that can't spread the floor, has a coach that thinks you can take the offense of the 1943 globetrotters or implement playsets out of the Triangle over the weekend and be just fine, and has nothing but iso minded scorers to fill out the role player categories and have it make any modicum of sense just isn't possible. This is so far beyond Reke not having a consistent jumper, or Cousins being a douche, or Smart sucking as a coach it's not even funny. And that's what's frustrating, Petrie sounded like "got it" before the summer started but he said one thing and then did another. He repeated the same actions he did the summer before which concluded in a major thud for anyone within earshot to hear it. The stench wasn't even gone and instead of cleaning up the pile of crap he proceeded to take another dump right on top of it.

Personnel issues is when you ask someone to do something they can't do. Our roster can't follow any direction. Lets see if they can follow direction before we can say we have personnel issues. They still do their own thing. I encourage you guys to go to more games. Read the body language on these players. Marcus Thornton is the worst actually. He's not a team guy. If he didn't touch the rock and something bad happens it's shaking his head. DeMarcus Cousins is a close second. These guys don't get it, and don't want to.

Chris Webber got it, but knew he could get away with practically anything. Once he stopped getting away with things he grew up, but he knew better. The only player that has been asked to do more than "what they do are the role players and Tyreke Evans. Why? Because they actually listen.

[SacKingZZZ]

Personnel issues is when you ask someone to do something they can't do. Our roster can't follow any direction. Lets see if they can follow direction before we can say we have personnel issues. They still do their own thing. I encourage you guys to go to more games. Read the body language on these players. Marcus Thornton is the worst actually. He's not a team guy. If he didn't touch the rock and something bad happens it's shaking his head. DeMarcus Cousins is a close second. These guys don't get it, and don't want to.

Chris Webber got it, but knew he could get away with practically anything. Once he stopped getting away with things he grew up, but he knew better. The only player that has been asked to do more than "what they do are the role players and Tyreke Evans. Why? Because they actually listen.

Like be a threat on the perimeter to help spread the floor? Seen a lot of teams over the years win big with players hating eachother, looking like they wanted to kill eachother on the floor, etc. For craps sake the Lakers won how many rings without their two stars even talking to eachother. Seen a lot of lovey-dovey teams lick boot until they were blown up too.

[VeeJay24]

You nailed the "WHAT" but the WHY is missing. This is still a really young and inexperienced team. Look at Zach Randolph for example. Look how long it took him to "get it?" Longer than it should have but I see a lot of maturity similarities between he and DMC. We're expecting guys who aren't mature enough to balance a checkbook to be faces of a franchise. They think put the franchise on my back literally means put the building, players, management, and the ball boy on my back and go play! They don't get that simply putting the next player in a position to execute easy makes them look good, AND makes the game easier for them, too! Until the Kings want to be the really smart team they will lose. We have the talent and we have the roster. We aren't missing anything but maturity.

Not true at all, this team does have talent but it's missing many of the ingredients that you need to win big at any level, like a balanced roster.

You can't ask it to even start to make strides towards that if the team and the players on it can't function properly in the aspects you need it to. That's strictly a personnel issue. In time players can and should grow into a level of consistency and maturity but taking a team that can't spread the floor, has a coach that thinks you can take the offense of the 1943 globetrotters or implement playsets out of the Triangle over the weekend and be just fine, and has nothing but iso minded scorers to fill out the role player categories and have it make any modicum of sense just isn't possible. This is so far beyond Reke not having a consistent jumper, or Cousins being a douche, or Smart sucking as a coach it's not even funny. And that's what's frustrating, Petrie sounded like "got it" before the summer started but he said one thing and then did another. He repeated the same actions he did the summer before which concluded in a major thud for anyone within earshot to hear it. The stench wasn't even gone and instead of cleaning up the pile of crap he proceeded to take another dump right on top of it.

Personnel issues is when you ask someone to do something they can't do. Our roster can't follow any direction. Lets see if they can follow direction before we can say we have personnel issues. They still do their own thing. I encourage you guys to go to more games. Read the body language on these players. Marcus Thornton is the worst actually. He's not a team guy. If he didn't touch the rock and something bad happens it's shaking his head. DeMarcus Cousins is a close second. These guys don't get it, and don't want to.

Chris Webber got it, but knew he could get away with practically anything. Once he stopped getting away with things he grew up, but he knew better. The only player that has been asked to do more than "what they do are the role players and Tyreke Evans. Why? Because they actually listen.

You are exactly right ICMTM, To me the 2 guys that no how to let the game come to them are the ones that everybody wants to criticize and get rid of around here: JT & Reke!!! I remember one game can't recall the opponent where Smart calls a time out and he is actually yelling at Reke because Cousins wouldn't pass the ball to him to set up the offense; Cousins was trying to go coast to coast. You could read Reke's lips as he said "He wouldn't pass me the ball." You can't build a team with this guy because he takes everything personal and all he cares about is himself. This recent incident during the Clippers game just proves my point more; if a team whether its the TWolves or the Celtics comes calling cut your losses.

SacKingZZZ, I get it; you are a Cousins' fan but come on, you can't compare this man to Ewing or Webb. You never saw Ewing playing like a wing constantly taking his man off the dribble throwing up wild shots that don't have a chance in hell of going in. Ewing was a jumpshooting big man but out to 15 feet and he started out on the block. He came into the league strictly a post up guy. He developed that jumpshot over time when he knew he lost his athleticism. You can compare his game to Webber but Webber was a student of the game and way more smarter. It isn't even close. Look at Webber in his last year with the Kings; he basically played on 1 leg and still averaged a double-double and in that series against the TWolves matched Garnett. He was way more unselfish and a whole lot better teammate. The thing is he needs to watch the 1 legged Webber and learn because he lacks the explosion of a pre knee injury Webber. I know Webber has been counseling him but that's the thing with this guy he doesn't want to listen.

It just seems like Cousins doesn't pick up on things look at the Warriors game; this is how Cousins' needs to play, he didn't take a high volume of shots, got the free throw line, played position defense, didn't get silly fouls, passed effectively out of the post and rebounded. And guess what the Kings won. But that's not enough for Cousins; he wants to be flashy and stand out from the rest. To him that probably wasn't a good game for him. So we get the Cousins that showed up against the Clippers.

The thing is if he spends most of his time on the block the spacing you so dearly keep talking about would be there but instead he gets out on the perimeter and instead of handing off to a guard he wants to create off the dribble but the team doesn't need that from him.

If you look at the team and I know the record doesn't show it but players are progressing: Jimmer, IT, James Johnson, Reke before his injury, Cisco had seemed to get his stroke back & Salmons. The coach is definitely culpable but Cousins is the main cog holding this thing up with demeanor, me first attitude and his play.

To me it is a no brainer: If it is possible to get Love; do it........

[VeeJay24]

I have 3 trades; I guess 2 would be considered pipe dreams, the other would be admission to a mistake and getting what you can even if it is more young players who could be considered assets.

Trade 1

Pacers send out: Roy Hibbert, Danny Granger, Lance Stephenson
Pacers receive: Demarcus Cousins, John Salmons, Marcus Thornton, Franciso Garcia, Aaron Brooks, 2 1st rd. draft picks- top 5 protected in 2013 & 2014, unprotected in 2015 & 2016.

Kings send out: Demarcus Cousins, John Salmons, Marcus Thornton, Francisco Garcia, Aaron Brooks, 2 1st rd draft picks- top 5 protected in 2013 & 2014, unprotected in 2015 & 2016. ( I guess in order to do this the Kings would have to settle the Casspi deal with the Cavs, I would do that by just giving the Cavs a lottery protected pick in 2017.)
Kings receive: Roy Hibbert, Danny Granger, Lance Stephenson

Kings would look like this

PG Fredette, Thomas
SG Evans, Stephenson
SF Granger, Johnson
PF Thompson, Robinson
C Hibbert, Hayes

Granger & Hibbert would bring much needed playoff experience; both players have made all star appearances. It is a much more balanced starting unit that would definitely be a playoff contender making the draft picks less valuable. The only knock is that you would have to wait until January 15 to do this one which is when Hibbert would be eligible to be traded.

Trade 2

Pacers sends out: Danny Granger, Ian Mahinmi, Gerald Green
Pacers receive: Demarcus Cousins, John Salmons, Francisco Garcia, Aaron Brooks

Sac: sends out: Demarcus Cousins, Johns Salmons, Francisco Garcia, Aaron Brooks
Sac receives: Danny Granger, Ian Mahinmi, Gerald Green

Kings would look like this

PG Fredette, Thomas
SG Evans, Thornton
SF Granger, Green, Johnson
PF Thompson, Robinson
C Mahinmi, Hayes

Mahinmi replaces Hibbert but gives the Kings a more athletic big and better defense; Granger is still the prize and makes the starting unit formidable. By not giving up Thornton in this one, the bench has better scoring plus Green brings even more athleticism and is a better shooter than Johnson.

Trade 3

Houston sends out: Terrence Jones, Donatas Montiejunas, Chandler Parsons
Houston receives: Demarcus Cousins

Sac sends out: Demarcus Cousins
Sac receives: Terrence Jones, Donatas Montiejunas, Chandler Parsons

Not a trade that would help the Kings now and more trades would have to be done but it gives the Kings more young assets. In particular Montiejunas could develop into a nice player in a year or 2. Parsons is a nice role player and good shooter; probably could start at SF for the Kings right now. Jones adds versatility; he can play the 3 or stretch 4. This would be the Kings saying we have had enough and want Cousins gone now.

[chad42]

I wouldn't trade Cousins right now. Value can only go up from here RIGHT?!?!?

[Vator]

Just my opinion, but I think the Rockets would only give you two of those guys and a 1st rounder.Asik is a player to consider as well along with the 3 mentioned above as he his putting up a double double from the C position. I'm thinking two of those guys and a pick. Cousins is risky.