Kings @ Rockets | Dec 5, 2015

[jeffjtk1234]

Well another loss due to defense

[SacKingZZZ]

Well, bright side of this trash game is that Collison and BMac played well

It's becoming fairly normal that when the Kings are in a game, it means someone has stepped up abnormally on the offensive end.

[jeffjtk1234]

Well, bright side of this trash game is that Collison and BMac played well

It's becoming fairly normal that when the Kings are in a game, it means someone has stepped up abnormally on the offensive end.

It's because they have yet to really play a cohesive game firing on all cylinders.

[KF10]

At this rate, we are heading for a 27-win season.

Pathetic.

[SacKingZZZ]

Well, it's going to be quite the climb from here on out. Chances for anything close to playoffs this year are starting to look dim and unless some ideological/system changes aren't looked at long and hard it might be time to scratch the whole thing.

[Kings2013]

I thought the meeting the Kings had a few weeks back was about pace?

Cousins, or how we've utilized him, hasn't been optimal

Could be an issue of motivation with a docile, old coach who Cousins at least isn't on board with personally (according to even recent Spears article)

[SacSanity]

Well, bright side of this trash game is that Collison and BMac played well

It's becoming fairly normal that when the Kings are in a game, it means someone has stepped up abnormally on the offensive end.

Very true... it's just so sad... I wish Malone was still here =/

[Wolfay]

I don't see how changing the scheme is going to change anything when they're clearly having an effort problem. The current scheme may be awful, but we'll never know for sure because they're completely ignoring that side of the ball. Part of that is Karl's fault, but you can only lead a horse...

And y'all have such a selective memory about Malone. I still don't think firing him was the right move, but geez, the Kings had some epic collapses under his tenure as well. The Kings' gimmick defense/ISO offense was starting to get exposed even before Cousins went down with viral meningitis.

[Kings2013]

I don't see how changing the scheme is going to change anything when they're clearly having an effort problem. The current scheme may be awful, but we'll never know for sure because they're completely ignoring that side of the ball. Part of that is Karl's fault, but you can only lead a horse...

And y'all have such a selective memory about Malone. I still don't think firing him was the right move, but geez, the Kings had some epic collapses under his tenure as well. The Kings' gimmick defense/ISO offense was starting to get exposed even before Cousins went down with viral meningitis.

Scheme or no (which a lot of Kings fans have a problem with), it could be just not being motivated to play for a guy who can barely get out of his chair and speak. Cousins, the team's best player, due to his blow up and quotes in the media (Spears article, paraphrasing "its not about liking each other but about winning games"), may not still be on board with him personally, creating that neg atmosphere

[SacKingZZZ]

I don't see how changing the scheme is going to change anything when they're clearly having an effort problem. The current scheme may be awful, but we'll never know for sure because they're completely ignoring that side of the ball. Part of that is Karl's fault, but you can only lead a horse...

And y'all have such a selective memory about Malone. I still don't think firing him was the right move, but geez, the Kings had some epic collapses under his tenure as well. The Kings' gimmick defense/ISO offense was starting to get exposed even before Cousins went down with viral meningitis.

Malone was far from perfect and his offensive short comings would have been exposed in time IMO, but, he's the first guy that decided to slow the "pace" down and what happened? Now you're back to having a pace oriented game and surprise, surprise, inconsistent showings are the norm and league worst defense is the theme. The question is how long can they hold out before the team starts giving up? Teams do, just look at the Rockets for goodness sake. They already are in spurts, but they've played hard many times this year and they still are where they are. Consistently flawed defensive positioning isn't solely effort related. They should be more concerned with where they can be at their peak and how long they have left to find it.

The team Vlade built never looked like the one Karl envisioned. You build a team with excessive size and decide outrunning teams is the way to go? Something sounds like it got lost in translation here. So, is that the case? Time will tell but it's certainly looking like it right now. Not all of that can be laid at the feet of Karl if that is the case. It's just a bad mix and another situation of a GM who didn't get to pick his coach. In the end you either need the right team for the coach, the right coach for the players, the coach needs to adjust to the players, or the players need to adjust to the coach. We've seen the players attempt to adjust to the coach thus far and it's not working. To the point that you've had the players themselves pull the coach aside.

[Wolfay]

I don't see how changing the scheme is going to change anything when they're clearly having an effort problem. The current scheme may be awful, but we'll never know for sure because they're completely ignoring that side of the ball. Part of that is Karl's fault, but you can only lead a horse...

And y'all have such a selective memory about Malone. I still don't think firing him was the right move, but geez, the Kings had some epic collapses under his tenure as well. The Kings' gimmick defense/ISO offense was starting to get exposed even before Cousins went down with viral meningitis.

Malone was far from perfect and his offensive short comings would have been exposed in time IMO, but, he's the first guy that decided to slow the "pace" down and what happened? Now you're back to having a pace oriented game and surprise, surprise, inconsistent showings are the norm and league worst defense is the theme. The question is how long can they hold out before the team starts giving up? Teams do, just look at the Rockets for goodness sake. They already are in spurts, but they've played hard many times this year and they still are where they are. Consistently flawed defensive positioning isn't solely effort related. They should be more concerned with where they can be at their peak and how long they have left to find it.

The team Vlade built never looked like the one Karl envisioned. You build a team with excessive size and decide outrunning teams is the way to go? Something sounds like it got lost in translation here. So, is that the case? Time will tell but it's certainly looking like it right now. Not all of that can be laid at the feet of Karl if that is the case. It's just a bad mix and another situation of a GM who didn't get to pick his coach. In the end you either need the right team for the coach, the right coach for the players, the coach needs to adjust to the players, or the players need to adjust to the coach. We've seen the players attempt to adjust to the coach thus far and it's not working. To the point that you've had the players themselves pull the coach aside.

He didn't decide to slow the pace down. He just didn't know what else to do. His expertise was on the other side of the ball. We were getting by purely on the ISO talents of Cousins and Gay, and for a while (like 15 games) it worked, but it started to get badly exploited, so arguing that pace had anything to do with the team's success at that point is pretty stupid. The same for the defensive side of the ball. Furthermore on Malone, let's not forget about his bizarre rotations. You were on his butt every single night for not playing Trash McCallum, and there were nights when not a single player cracked 35 minutes. I liked Malone and wanted him to stay, but let's be objective about this.

The team's struggles are mostly effort based. They played with better effort tonight against OKC and we got a much better game. If the Kings hit their free throws, and/or Cousins looked more like himself, that game is an easy win. What we have now works if they just gave it their all.

[Wolfay]

I don't see how changing the scheme is going to change anything when they're clearly having an effort problem. The current scheme may be awful, but we'll never know for sure because they're completely ignoring that side of the ball. Part of that is Karl's fault, but you can only lead a horse...

And y'all have such a selective memory about Malone. I still don't think firing him was the right move, but geez, the Kings had some epic collapses under his tenure as well. The Kings' gimmick defense/ISO offense was starting to get exposed even before Cousins went down with viral meningitis.

Scheme or no (which a lot of Kings fans have a problem with), it could be just not being motivated to play for a guy who can barely get out of his chair and speak. Cousins, the team's best player, due to his blow up and quotes in the media (Spears article, paraphrasing "its not about liking each other but about winning games"), may not still be on board with him personally, creating that neg atmosphere

Well there's also the issue that whenever he opens his mouth, we and the media jump on him for being a toxic, ornery old man.

[SacKingZZZ]

I don't see how changing the scheme is going to change anything when they're clearly having an effort problem. The current scheme may be awful, but we'll never know for sure because they're completely ignoring that side of the ball. Part of that is Karl's fault, but you can only lead a horse...

And y'all have such a selective memory about Malone. I still don't think firing him was the right move, but geez, the Kings had some epic collapses under his tenure as well. The Kings' gimmick defense/ISO offense was starting to get exposed even before Cousins went down with viral meningitis.

Malone was far from perfect and his offensive short comings would have been exposed in time IMO, but, he's the first guy that decided to slow the "pace" down and what happened? Now you're back to having a pace oriented game and surprise, surprise, inconsistent showings are the norm and league worst defense is the theme. The question is how long can they hold out before the team starts giving up? Teams do, just look at the Rockets for goodness sake. They already are in spurts, but they've played hard many times this year and they still are where they are. Consistently flawed defensive positioning isn't solely effort related. They should be more concerned with where they can be at their peak and how long they have left to find it.

The team Vlade built never looked like the one Karl envisioned. You build a team with excessive size and decide outrunning teams is the way to go? Something sounds like it got lost in translation here. So, is that the case? Time will tell but it's certainly looking like it right now. Not all of that can be laid at the feet of Karl if that is the case. It's just a bad mix and another situation of a GM who didn't get to pick his coach. In the end you either need the right team for the coach, the right coach for the players, the coach needs to adjust to the players, or the players need to adjust to the coach. We've seen the players attempt to adjust to the coach thus far and it's not working. To the point that you've had the players themselves pull the coach aside.

He didn't decide to slow the pace down. He just didn't know what else to do. His expertise was on the other side of the ball. We were getting by purely on the ISO talents of Cousins and Gay, and for a while (like 15 games) it worked, but it started to get badly exploited, so arguing that pace had anything to do with the team's success at that point is pretty stupid. The same for the defensive side of the ball. Furthermore on Malone, let's not forget about his bizarre rotations. You were on his butt every single night for not playing Trash McCallum, and there were nights when not a single player cracked 35 minutes. I liked Malone and wanted him to stay, but let's be objective about this.

The team's struggles are mostly effort based. They played with better effort tonight against OKC and we got a much better game. If the Kings hit their free throws, and/or Cousins looked more like himself, that game is an easy win. What we have now works if they just gave it their all.

They are still a part of the overall respective pictures being painted, Malone started the offense inside out and used the clock to his advantage, and while he relied on his stars I don't think that was necessarily a bad thing. Most teams that have good to great individual offensive talents have done quite well when creating an offensive scheme that utilizes their ability to draw double teams. The offense started with Cousins in the post, Karls offense rarely sees more than 1 or 2 touches from Cuz down low early in games period. There is a total difference in philosophies there.

And I'm pretty sure I was objective. I said his offense was going to be exposed. It doesn't change the fact that some of the things he did worked better for the team and the defensive numbers prove that out. His record with less talent and no Cuz was even better. So... what changed then?

Effort will help but when dealing with a lack of defensive fundamentals as a team (and if they are this prevalent after this many games it's more than just effort or at least might be what is effecting the effort) even the hardest workers will eventually realize the uphill battle. You don't have 12 guys lacking on effort every game. Time to go back to the drawing board if it's not too late already. Some of those adjustments might not even have to be that severe, who knows.

Both OKC and the Kings looked like they were sleep walking out there. The Thunder got open look after open look from 3 and clanked them all until they didn't and they got the win by just turning it on late after Donovan used his own bench to turn it into a game again.

[bleeds_purple]

I don't see how changing the scheme is going to change anything when they're clearly having an effort problem. The current scheme may be awful, but we'll never know for sure because they're completely ignoring that side of the ball. Part of that is Karl's fault, but you can only lead a horse...

And y'all have such a selective memory about Malone. I still don't think firing him was the right move, but geez, the Kings had some epic collapses under his tenure as well. The Kings' gimmick defense/ISO offense was starting to get exposed even before Cousins went down with viral meningitis.

Do you believe our league-first pace has any effect on our defense?

Do you believe the player's lack of belief in the system (see recent meeting with Karl regarding changing the scheme) has any effect on our effort?

Do you believe a dribble drive offense plays to the strengths of Cousins and Gay?

Do you believe Cousins and Gay should spend so much time on the perimeter and so little time posting up?


No one's saying Malone is some god coach or that post-up offense (which is not an ISO offense) is the holy grail. What we are saying is that, that style at least plays to the strengths of our top players.

[Wolfay]

I don't see how changing the scheme is going to change anything when they're clearly having an effort problem. The current scheme may be awful, but we'll never know for sure because they're completely ignoring that side of the ball. Part of that is Karl's fault, but you can only lead a horse...

And y'all have such a selective memory about Malone. I still don't think firing him was the right move, but geez, the Kings had some epic collapses under his tenure as well. The Kings' gimmick defense/ISO offense was starting to get exposed even before Cousins went down with viral meningitis.

Do you believe our league-first pace has any effect on our defense?

Do you believe the player's lack of belief in the system (see recent meeting with Karl regarding changing the scheme) has any effect on our effort?

Do you believe a dribble drive offense plays to the strengths of Cousins and Gay?

Do you believe Cousins and Gay should spend so much time on the perimeter and so little time posting up?


No one's saying Malone is some god coach or that post-up offense (which is not an ISO offense) is the holy grail. What we are saying is that, that style at least plays to the strengths of our top players.

I believe that Karl gives his players unbridled freedom to do what they want, and it's reflected in the perimeter-heavy play of Cousins and others is their idea. If you want more post-ups, tell that to the players. I don't recall Karl forcing Cousins to develop a 3-pointer. Cousins did that all on his own. It really annoys me that nobody here holds the players accountable, when it's clear as m-effing day that they deserve a good chunk, if not most of the blame when the crap hits the fan.

The dribble drive doesn't have to be used 100% of the time (and it isn't), but Rudy is the ideal player for the dribble drive, and Cousins has sufficient face up game and the superb passing to play the dribble drive. What neither seem to have is the discipline to play any organized offense, other than the ISO-heavy (not post up) pseudo offense of Malone. Malone's "offense" wasn't playing to any strengths because it was beginning to crumble even before Cousins went down with meningitis. I didn't want to see Malone let go either, but time was running out on him anyway if he couldn't come up with another game plan soon.

[SacKingZZZ]

I don't see how changing the scheme is going to change anything when they're clearly having an effort problem. The current scheme may be awful, but we'll never know for sure because they're completely ignoring that side of the ball. Part of that is Karl's fault, but you can only lead a horse...

And y'all have such a selective memory about Malone. I still don't think firing him was the right move, but geez, the Kings had some epic collapses under his tenure as well. The Kings' gimmick defense/ISO offense was starting to get exposed even before Cousins went down with viral meningitis.

Do you believe our league-first pace has any effect on our defense?

Do you believe the player's lack of belief in the system (see recent meeting with Karl regarding changing the scheme) has any effect on our effort?

Do you believe a dribble drive offense plays to the strengths of Cousins and Gay?

Do you believe Cousins and Gay should spend so much time on the perimeter and so little time posting up?


No one's saying Malone is some god coach or that post-up offense (which is not an ISO offense) is the holy grail. What we are saying is that, that style at least plays to the strengths of our top players.

I believe that Karl gives his players unbridled freedom to do what they want, and it's reflected in the perimeter-heavy play of Cousins and others is their idea. If you want more post-ups, tell that to the players. I don't recall Karl forcing Cousins to develop a 3-pointer. Cousins did that all on his own. It really annoys me that nobody here holds the players accountable, when it's clear as m-effing day that they deserve a good chunk, if not most of the blame when the crap hits the fan.

The dribble drive doesn't have to be used 100% of the time (and it isn't), but Rudy is the ideal player for the dribble drive, and Cousins has sufficient face up game and the superb passing to play the dribble drive. What neither seem to have is the discipline to play any organized offense, other than the ISO-heavy (not post up) pseudo offense of Malone. Malone's "offense" wasn't playing to any strengths because it was beginning to crumble even before Cousins went down with meningitis. I didn't want to see Malone let go either, but time was running out on him anyway if he couldn't come up with another game plan soon.

In that TNT game and from some of the reports it sounds like it was more of a suggestion rather than a player choice. They've already gone to Karl and talked about slowing the game down and possibly talked about playing inside more if the last few games are any indication. Some of the adjustments Karl has made offensively as of late have worked very well. Karl also talked about using Cuz for his passing more, which is the right idea, because passing for him is a better weapon than shooting 3's IMO. If he can find cutters or get an easy shot for his teammates the opposing team will now have to defend the other players on the floor. That will give him spacing rather than him giving lesser talented guards spacing.

[kings_illegal]

The main issue is that George Karl doesn't have a system out there. Everybody says he is best offense coach in the league blah blah blah but NO! He is the worst defense coach ever and also he is not really good at offense either. If he had a system on the court, we would've been much better. Look at the games, We dobn't defense, we don't offense, all we do is give the ball to Rondo or Cousins and see what they do, If they do a nice job, we win, if they don't, we lose... Our squad had got the most talented players in the league but George **** Karl doesn't even know how to use them, Cousins' has been trying to score 3 point shoots even though he can't, If George Karl was a real coach, he would've told him not to do it. Dude, I've been supporting this team since I was 10 and I'm tired of watching as systemless team on the court.. I was cursing at Mike Malone since he was making Stauskas defend Kobe but George Karl is much worse then Malone, at least Malone used to have a defense system, Karl has nothing... He has just a name "OFFENSE COACH"

[bleeds_purple]

I believe that Karl gives his players unbridled freedom to do what they want, and it's reflected in the perimeter-heavy play of Cousins and others is their idea. If you want more post-ups, tell that to the players. I don't recall Karl forcing Cousins to develop a 3-pointer. Cousins did that all on his own. It really annoys me that nobody here holds the players accountable, when it's clear as m-effing day that they deserve a good chunk, if not most of the blame when the crap hits the fan.

The dribble drive doesn't have to be used 100% of the time (and it isn't), but Rudy is the ideal player for the dribble drive, and Cousins has sufficient face up game and the superb passing to play the dribble drive. What neither seem to have is the discipline to play any organized offense, other than the ISO-heavy (not post up) pseudo offense of Malone. Malone's "offense" wasn't playing to any strengths because it was beginning to crumble even before Cousins went down with meningitis. I didn't want to see Malone let go either, but time was running out on him anyway if he couldn't come up with another game plan soon.

I agree with the not holding the players accountable sentiment but follow that thought to its logical conclusion. The coach is suppose to be the one holding the players accountable. If what you believe is true regarding the freedom aspect of Karl's system then I still put the blame on the coaching staff. Good teams don't just let their players do whatever they want. That being said watching Cousins complain and not run the floor really causes my blood to boil. At this point in his career he still lacks the maturity level to be a leader and set the tone for the organization.

As far as the dribble drive offense, I don't necessarily agree that it plays to Rudy or Demarcus' strengths. Rudy is a sub-par ball handler for a SF and while Cousins can execute drives, I much prefer him on the low-block. Too often he puts his head down and barrels in out of control on dribble drives.

I'm curious, in what way was the offense beginning to crumble under Malone? From my recollection our biggest issues were going against zone-defenses and teams that would front Demarcus because both strategies denied the post entry passes. Near the end (before Cousins went out with meningitis) I noticed we started having Thompson flash to the high post and then make the high-low lob pass to counter the defense and it was working decently well.