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This team is killing me

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kingjawn100
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#21 » by kingjawn100 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:06 pm

Jkam31 wrote:
kingjawn100 wrote:i’m not a fan of negativity but i don’t see a scenario where the team wins 35 games next year. The way the core of the team played vs tanking teams was kinda frightening (like we weren’t good enough to soundly beat other teams’ g-league squads). I know we can point to having a not-horrible win total but the truth is, if the teams below us weren’t tanking at the end of the year we may have ended up with the worst or 2nd worst record in the entire nba.

Here is a realistic guess at our roster next year...which won’t inspire too much confidence but i think its a fair guess

PG: Fox, Mason
SG: Bogi, Buddy, Temple
SF: Hezonja, Jackson, cheap FA vet
PF: ZBo, Skal, Giles
C: WCS, Wendell Carter, Koufos

This seems very likely with skal possibly traded and/or Koufos possibly opting out.


Lol
ZBo isn’t starting next year he might not even be in the roster. Look for us to grab Bjlecia to start at PF


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Knowing Joerger's style i don't know how you think ZBo won't have a similar role on the team next year. If we cut him he'd be owed a ton of money and it would make the ZBo/Hill summer 2017 signings look even worse. He has almost no trade value. And we all know the first 30 games of next year Joerger will do everything in his power to win games aka play vets.

Only positive...barring injuries by the time Harry's ready to be a starter (2019-2020) ZBo won't be under contract.

I see no way Skal is our starter next year. IMO there's 50% chance he's buried on bench 50% chance he's moved.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#22 » by KF10 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:26 pm

Z-Bo is an expiring after next season (final year: $11,692,308). He's useful in that regard. There will always be a team will want to clear space. We can probably squeeze and asset or two out of Z-Bo if other teams are desperate for clearing for cap space.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#23 » by benchmobbin02 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:59 pm

BoogieTime wrote:The players aren’t my strongest concern. I did feel perturbed that of our young players, really only Buddy improved as the season went on, but I’m used to it (young players not showing out here). It’s still tolerable, and I can see how someone could take the positive angle.

The biggest issue, by far, is Vlade being the GM of the team. We are consigned to being led by a guy without rudimentary FO experience who hasn’t had a strong recent history. It’s like being on a cruise ship and finding out the captain didn’t undergo proper training and has been making abrupt turns. He’s going to be making moves that will affect this team the next 5 years. Because he’s on the hot seat he will try to make win now moves over long term viability. The only thing I can think of are how to get alternatives to him. If this team keeps plucking along does Vivek keep him?


About the players that's just not true but I'm not gonna get into that debate.

You really haven't been paying attention. Vlade isn't on the hotseat and the moves that he has been making is about building a contender for the long hall. Now he may not be the best at making those moves and the team situation(small market with a long record of losing) doesn't help but his goal is focused.He isn't tied to guys that don't work. He has left it so that we have very well could have many options in the future season making moves and the young guys we have under control are all promising. I mean for more than half of them it was there rookie year.

Not sure why it's so important for you in particular to keep trying to push this narrative but it's clear you just don't believe in the team or the Front office.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#24 » by blind prophet » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:49 am

Sactowndog wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:I really can't wait to rub it in you non believers faces when this group and some additions start winning games. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong but I think Fox, BH, BB, Giles, Hayes and Skal will all be a part of it. Rather have faith in this group than be hoping for ANOTHER rebuild and ANOTHER 3-4 years of crap.


We aren’t so far off, but we really needed another good big this year and we are very close in a good top end draft for bigs to be looking at a guard as BPA.

BB and Buddy look good.

Giles and Fox are an unknown but are promising

Jackson and Skal are a crap shoot


Jackson showed nothing and most the board wanted OG here.

How do you have Fox and Giles as an unknown? If anything Fox showed us quite a bit of athleticism, an improved jumper, and some clutch moments.

You didn't mention Mason who regressed, but at least he showed us something early in the season as a second rounder.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#25 » by blind prophet » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:52 am

benchmobbin02 wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:The players aren’t my strongest concern. I did feel perturbed that of our young players, really only Buddy improved as the season went on, but I’m used to it (young players not showing out here). It’s still tolerable, and I can see how someone could take the positive angle.

The biggest issue, by far, is Vlade being the GM of the team. We are consigned to being led by a guy without rudimentary FO experience who hasn’t had a strong recent history. It’s like being on a cruise ship and finding out the captain didn’t undergo proper training and has been making abrupt turns. He’s going to be making moves that will affect this team the next 5 years. Because he’s on the hot seat he will try to make win now moves over long term viability. The only thing I can think of are how to get alternatives to him. If this team keeps plucking along does Vivek keep him?


About the players that's just not true but I'm not gonna get into that debate.

You really haven't been paying attention. Vlade isn't on the hotseat and the moves that he has been making is about building a contender for the long hall. Now he may not be the best at making those moves and the team situation(small market with a long record of losing) doesn't help but his goal is focused.He isn't tied to guys that don't work. He has left it so that we have very well could have many options in the future season making moves and the young guys we have under control are all promising. I mean for more than half of them it was there rookie year.

Not sure why it's so important for you in particular to keep trying to push this narrative but it's clear you just don't believe in the team or the Front office.


Guess we will see if asset accumulation to get talent is a better move than building culture.

Vlade played in 2 good groups over his career, but the Showtime Lakers had Magic and a decent roster, Vlade himself was dang good here but also Webber came to town.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#26 » by kingjawn100 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:42 am

One thing i wanted to bring up is the 2 seprate notions that

1. Kings botched all free agent signings last year
2. The Kings are nothing without Scott Perry who made kings relevant again last offseason

If you’re gonna rip the moves that got us ZBo, George Hill and an overpaid Vince Carter you’re then admitting maybe the job done by Scott Perry wasn’t as good as we’d like to think. We also drafted Fox/Justin Jackson/Harry on Perry’s watch which the jury is still out on. Perry’s Knicks, like the Kings, refused to tank this year and they’re slated to pick behind us. I think perry’s perceived role as savior was overstated but time will tell.

Either way i think this year is do or die for Vlade. If we don’t show improvement in player development and/or wins and losses i cant see him returning for another year.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#27 » by benchmobbin02 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:38 pm

blind prophet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:The players aren’t my strongest concern. I did feel perturbed that of our young players, really only Buddy improved as the season went on, but I’m used to it (young players not showing out here). It’s still tolerable, and I can see how someone could take the positive angle.

The biggest issue, by far, is Vlade being the GM of the team. We are consigned to being led by a guy without rudimentary FO experience who hasn’t had a strong recent history. It’s like being on a cruise ship and finding out the captain didn’t undergo proper training and has been making abrupt turns. He’s going to be making moves that will affect this team the next 5 years. Because he’s on the hot seat he will try to make win now moves over long term viability. The only thing I can think of are how to get alternatives to him. If this team keeps plucking along does Vivek keep him?


About the players that's just not true but I'm not gonna get into that debate.

You really haven't been paying attention. Vlade isn't on the hotseat and the moves that he has been making is about building a contender for the long hall. Now he may not be the best at making those moves and the team situation(small market with a long record of losing) doesn't help but his goal is focused.He isn't tied to guys that don't work. He has left it so that we have very well could have many options in the future season making moves and the young guys we have under control are all promising. I mean for more than half of them it was there rookie year.

Not sure why it's so important for you in particular to keep trying to push this narrative but it's clear you just don't believe in the team or the Front office.


Guess we will see if asset accumulation to get talent is a better move than building culture.

Vlade played in 2 good groups over his career, but the Showtime Lakers had Magic and a decent roster, Vlade himself was dang good here but also Webber came to town.


But we haven't been doing one or the other. We've been doing both

In the last 3 year we have added 10 1st rd draft picks, 8 of which are still on the roster, 7 with contracts for next year. If that isn't asset accumulation, I don't know what is. The fact that he also completely changed the culture of the team by bringing in good vet mentors and shipping out bad seeds(Papa) and apples(DMC,Gay, Lawson) shows his commitment to building the right way and avoiding the past mistake(betting everything on a superstar that is ill tempered).
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#28 » by sdballer » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:52 pm

benchmobbin02 wrote:I really can't wait to rub it in you non believers faces when this group and some additions start winning games. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong but I think Fox, BH, BB, Giles, Hayes and Skal will all be a part of it. Rather have faith in this group than be hoping for ANOTHER rebuild and ANOTHER 3-4 years of crap.


You could have faith in that core group and still have another 3-4 years of crap. That's the problem.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#29 » by Sactowndog » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:04 am

blind prophet wrote:
Sactowndog wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:I really can't wait to rub it in you non believers faces when this group and some additions start winning games. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong but I think Fox, BH, BB, Giles, Hayes and Skal will all be a part of it. Rather have faith in this group than be hoping for ANOTHER rebuild and ANOTHER 3-4 years of crap.


We aren’t so far off, but we really needed another good big this year and we are very close in a good top end draft for bigs to be looking at a guard as BPA.

BB and Buddy look good.

Giles and Fox are an unknown but are promising

Jackson and Skal are a crap shoot


Jackson showed nothing and most the board wanted OG here.

How do you have Fox and Giles as an unknown? If anything Fox showed us quite a bit of athleticism, an improved jumper, and some clutch moments.

You didn't mention Mason who regressed, but at least he showed us something early in the season as a second rounder.


Apparently everyone but the Kings draft room wanted OG myself included.

The advanced metrics hate Fox. But to my eye has potential. He has to decide he is going to run a team to be successful.

Giles? The word sounds good but do you really trust this organization?
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#30 » by Sactowndog » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:28 am

benchmobbin02 wrote:
blind prophet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
About the players that's just not true but I'm not gonna get into that debate.

You really haven't been paying attention. Vlade isn't on the hotseat and the moves that he has been making is about building a contender for the long hall. Now he may not be the best at making those moves and the team situation(small market with a long record of losing) doesn't help but his goal is focused.He isn't tied to guys that don't work. He has left it so that we have very well could have many options in the future season making moves and the young guys we have under control are all promising. I mean for more than half of them it was there rookie year.

Not sure why it's so important for you in particular to keep trying to push this narrative but it's clear you just don't believe in the team or the Front office.


Guess we will see if asset accumulation to get talent is a better move than building culture.

Vlade played in 2 good groups over his career, but the Showtime Lakers had Magic and a decent roster, Vlade himself was dang good here but also Webber came to town.


But we haven't been doing one or the other. We've been doing both

In the last 3 year we have added 10 1st rd draft picks, 8 of which are still on the roster, 7 with contracts for next year. If that isn't asset accumulation, I don't know what is. The fact that he also completely changed the culture of the team by bringing in good vet mentors and shipping out bad seeds(Papa) and apples(DMC,Gay, Lawson) shows his commitment to building the right way and avoiding the past mistake(betting everything on a superstar that is ill tempered).


The problem is few to none of those players are top 3 players with superstar potential. Houston as an example traded a bunch of the guys we are accumulating to get Harden.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#31 » by benchmobbin02 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:42 am

sdballer wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:I really can't wait to rub it in you non believers faces when this group and some additions start winning games. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong but I think Fox, BH, BB, Giles, Hayes and Skal will all be a part of it. Rather have faith in this group than be hoping for ANOTHER rebuild and ANOTHER 3-4 years of crap.


You could have faith in that core group and still have another 3-4 years of crap. That's the problem.


Do you know what the words "Faith" and "Hope" mean?
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#32 » by benchmobbin02 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:50 am

Sactowndog wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
blind prophet wrote:
Guess we will see if asset accumulation to get talent is a better move than building culture.

Vlade played in 2 good groups over his career, but the Showtime Lakers had Magic and a decent roster, Vlade himself was dang good here but also Webber came to town.


But we haven't been doing one or the other. We've been doing both

In the last 3 year we have added 10 1st rd draft picks, 8 of which are still on the roster, 7 with contracts for next year. If that isn't asset accumulation, I don't know what is. The fact that he also completely changed the culture of the team by bringing in good vet mentors and shipping out bad seeds(Papa) and apples(DMC,Gay, Lawson) shows his commitment to building the right way and avoiding the past mistake(betting everything on a superstar that is ill tempered).


The problem is few to none of those players are top 3 players with superstar potential. Houston as an example traded a bunch of the guys we are accumulating to get Harden.


Yeah, that is the point of bring in alot of guys with potential. You have alot of chance to find a gem. And we are still developing them to see if we have one. Kind of the point and what we are talking about we it comes to asset accumulation, which we have been doing and we don't know if any of our guys will rise up to be great yet. For most of them it's their rookie or 1st year.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#33 » by benchmobbin02 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:55 am

Sactowndog wrote:
Giles? The word sounds good but do you really trust this organization?


So you think the players that are giving these interviews about him are lying?

Of course, it's ok to be skeptical because he hasn't played a game yet but I don't think anyone has said that he is gonna be anything. They are just happy he looks good to the people who have seen him on the court.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#34 » by Sactowndog » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:15 am

benchmobbin02 wrote:
Sactowndog wrote:
Giles? The word sounds good but do you really trust this organization?


So you think the players that are giving these interviews about him are lying?

Of course, it's ok to be skeptical because he hasn't played a game yet but I don't think anyone has said that he is gonna be anything. They are just happy he looks good to the people who have seen him on the court.


Nope but until we see him live he is an unknown.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#35 » by Sactowndog » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:16 am

Perfect Gif of the Kings season...

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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#36 » by benchmobbin02 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:51 pm

Sactowndog wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
Sactowndog wrote:
Giles? The word sounds good but do you really trust this organization?


So you think the players that are giving these interviews about him are lying?

Of course, it's ok to be skeptical because he hasn't played a game yet but I don't think anyone has said that he is gonna be anything. They are just happy he looks good to the people who have seen him on the court.


Nope but until we see him live he is an unknown.


That is what we have been saying. Has nothing to do with "trusting the org."
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#37 » by benchmobbin02 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:53 pm

Sactowndog wrote:Perfect Gif of the Kings season...



You know that isn't a gif, right haha?
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#38 » by BoogieTime » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:06 pm

benchmobbin02 wrote:
Sactowndog wrote:
Giles? The word sounds good but do you really trust this organization?


So you think the players that are giving these interviews about him are lying?



I think they would be positive about a teammate regardless. How else would they answer it? “He looks ok”, “I’m still questioning his durability but I hope he turns into a good player for us”. Out of politeness they would give good reviews to their teammate IMO
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#39 » by benchmobbin02 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:18 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
Sactowndog wrote:
Giles? The word sounds good but do you really trust this organization?


So you think the players that are giving these interviews about him are lying?



I think they would be positive about a teammate regardless. How else would they answer it? “He looks ok”, “I’m still questioning his durability but I hope he turns into a good player for us”. Out of politeness they would give good reviews to their teammate IMO


So yes, you think they are lying. Got it.

How else they would answer it is it wouldn't even be a topic they are talking about if he was just ok or bad.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#40 » by simonbampfield » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:19 pm

benchmobbin02 wrote:
blind prophet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
About the players that's just not true but I'm not gonna get into that debate.

You really haven't been paying attention. Vlade isn't on the hotseat and the moves that he has been making is about building a contender for the long hall. Now he may not be the best at making those moves and the team situation(small market with a long record of losing) doesn't help but his goal is focused.He isn't tied to guys that don't work. He has left it so that we have very well could have many options in the future season making moves and the young guys we have under control are all promising. I mean for more than half of them it was there rookie year.

Not sure why it's so important for you in particular to keep trying to push this narrative but it's clear you just don't believe in the team or the Front office.


Guess we will see if asset accumulation to get talent is a better move than building culture.

Vlade played in 2 good groups over his career, but the Showtime Lakers had Magic and a decent roster, Vlade himself was dang good here but also Webber came to town.


But we haven't been doing one or the other. We've been doing both

In the last 3 year we have added 10 1st rd draft picks, 8 of which are still on the roster, 7 with contracts for next year. If that isn't asset accumulation, I don't know what is. The fact that he also completely changed the culture of the team by bringing in good vet mentors and shipping out bad seeds(Papa) and apples(DMC,Gay, Lawson) shows his commitment to building the right way and avoiding the past mistake(betting everything on a superstar that is ill tempered).

I don’t know how people don’t see that we have been doing both.
Sure we haven’t flat out tanked and got even a top 4 pick, and I think we all wanted one this year. However I’m a believer in Vlade’s end game. I certainly haven’t agreed with everything he has done, but building the team with players he likes is going to work. This team will be fun to watch, starting next season. Yes next season. There are going to be ups and downs. All teams go through it, but people here will be pleasantly surprised by the Kings next season.
He (Vlade) just needs to understand the coach has to be able to coach that style, but that’s a different part to this.


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