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Draft Watch 2018

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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1781 » by BoogieTime » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:19 pm

kingjawn100 wrote:i know its not meant to be a negative comparison but the Bogdan comparison is exactly why i WOULDN'T take Luka at 2. When people say Bogi's skill-set worked well last year, it worked well for a guy who realistically is a complimentary/role player. If a guy like that is your best player you simply aren't winning a ton of games.

Although Bogi is crafty and smart there are plays each game where he simply has to give the ball up because he doesn't have the athletic ability to either get to the rim or create separation for a jumper. Luka, while younger, will have some of the same issues, and it's hard to imagine us making deep playoff run when 3 of our 4 best players (luka, bogi, buddy) all have issues getting their own shot.

i don't think ive heard one person say that Luka's gonna be MUCH better than Bogi and that kinda scares me. Can someone break down an area where he is or projects to be MUCH better than Bogi?

At 7 im fine taking the crafty/basketball IQ guy...at 2 i want a superstar who's gonna make the basketball IQ guys/role players look even better.


I don’t think I’ve heard anyone say Bogdanovic is on the same level of player of Doncic. That’s why you play him at PF (your concerns athletically may be justified at the wing) which is his NBA position IMO. Who is the supposed superstar your taking at 2 (all these players have counter arguments)?
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1782 » by Eisenheart » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:28 pm

that's the big question, who is supposed to be the superstar at #2? Bagley? looooooooooool! JJJ, Bamba? C'mon, nobody of this guys will become a superstar, maybe important role player but not more. the only possible star is Trae Young but he has so much bust potential and we don't need a PG. and Porter, so many questions behind him. for me to risky at 2. Doncic would make us happy
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1783 » by RipPizzaGuy » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:36 pm

Eisenheart wrote:that's the big question, who is supposed to be the superstar at #2? Bagley? looooooooooool! JJJ, Bamba? C'mon, nobody of this guys will become a superstar, maybe important role player but not more. the only possible star is Trae Young but he has so much bust potential and we don't need a PG. and Porter, so many questions behind him. for me to risky at 2. Doncic would make us happy


This is a bad post my man. Nobody thought Lauri or Mitchell could become stars. A year later, it looks like they are well on their way.

Impossible to tell me Bagley, MPJ, Doncic are not going to be stars or that they definitely will be. All we can do is scout them and based on their ability we have an idea of best case/worst case.
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1784 » by SacKingZZZ » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:36 pm

blind prophet wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:If Vlade takes Porter Jr. we now know for sure he's like narrow stretch bigs who were tops in high school and fell out of favor for whatever reason after.

To me Porter Jr. is like what you wish Skal could be only more as a combo F. I just don't see the smooth game you see from true stars on the wing. I think he can be productive, he's physical, he's decently athletic, he's tall, but I don't see a signature part of his game. His shot is a little slow and I haven't noticed him being Durant esque off the dribble. The creativity isn't there. He's fairly linear, stiff, and upright with the ball. Unless his back being fixed makes him an entirely different player he looks like a stretch 4 to me.


He reminds me of Rudy some, but with more athletic gifts.

Assuming he's healthy I fully expect a 3 or 4 option. I'm not worried about him being being beat off the dribble, I see more of a hand in the face guy who can potentially switch and pest defensively.

Sure he will get manhandled by larger 4's.

That's where the entire roster personel and coaching will help.

You feeling lucky man?

Toss some loot on yo 11?



Maybe Rudy a little bit. I think Rudy has more coordination and is more smooth with his movements. Kevin Knox reminds me more of Rudy. One thing about Porter Jr. that I've noticed is he's such a set shot taker. Even when he is moving off the dribble it always seems to end with a break for him to set himself. It's not something that will make it impossible for him to become a good offensive scorer but it might be one of the reasons why he's so inconsistent off the dribble unless he's getting to the rack.
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1785 » by madskillz8 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:45 pm

Again and again, Luka is 7 years younger than Bogdan if you want to compare these two. He may not have the longest wingspan, highest vertical leap and etc but it is not a draft for track and field team. Still he is far from the best shape physically, NBA training would help him a lot in that regard. IMO he is the best and most complete basketball player in that draft, and he can improve his shooting/scoring.
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1786 » by SacKingZZZ » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:45 pm

Bob8 wrote:
OhioKingsFan wrote:I've been watching highlights of Bogdan Bogdanovic last season, and his athleticism and pace remind me a lot of what I've seen from Doncic. He's not athletic enough to blow by players, so he uses a lot of step-backs and screens to create space to shoot. It worked well for Bogdan, I now think Doncic can make it work as well.

I admit, I have previously been concerned about Luka's lack of elite athleticism impacting his ability to succeed in the NBA, but after seeing how Bogdan was able to perform, I'm no longer concerned. I don't think Luka will be a primary scoring option, but I think he is skilled enough to become a vital part of a successful team. In the event of drafting Luka, the Kings should prioritize chasing a big man that can be a featured (athletic) scoring threat.

The best off-season for the Kings IMO would be to draft Luka and sign Julius Randle as a free agent (or Aaron Gordon, but I don't think Orlando will let him leave).


Yes, Bogdan somewhat resembles Luka. But we must not forget that Luka is almost 7 years younger and has bigger body. He has much bigger room for improvement. I believe Bogdan and Luka would look great together, I'm not so sure about Luka and Fox.



Luka has a much quicker first step than Bogdan as well. Bogdan is longer and has a better looking shot right now to me. I think Bogdan and Luka will both end up solid defenders because of the effort they put in and their strength to defend bigger players. The question is defending smaller quicker players with both of them at the 2 and 3. I think you're better off switching since they can defend bigger players.
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1787 » by rpa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:50 pm

Eisenheart wrote:that's the big question, who is supposed to be the superstar at #2? Bagley? looooooooooool! JJJ, Bamba? C'mon, nobody of this guys will become a superstar, maybe important role player but not more. the only possible star is Trae Young but he has so much bust potential and we don't need a PG. and Porter, so many questions behind him. for me to risky at 2. Doncic would make us happy


Bamba is a definite NO in my opinion (see previous posts about him), but I think JJJ and Bagley have some clear (though not likely) ways to get there. Bagley athleticism and skillset give him the chance to be an Amare-ish type offensively, but in a slightly different way due to his motor. JJJ is such an interesting one because he's so young and yet so skilled in some very important areas (shooting, rotations, etc.). If the small sample size of creation/ballhandling we saw at MSU weren't a mirage he's really got the chance to be a superstar 2-way player (dare I say a KG-ish type).
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1788 » by SacKingZZZ » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Archx wrote:I don't know what kind of logic you guys in the US use, but everytime i see something like this, other people laugh at you. I don't want to defend Luka here but i will basically defend EU players. Because i will say it again, 1 thing coaches teach primary in EU are fundamentals and how to play TEAM BALL. One thing NBA coaches check before you get to the NBA is what? Freaking athleticism... Something that is the easiest to work on. Something that can be improved in 2-3 years. You can't teach stupid!!!! Darko had good fundamentals but was mentally disturbed, other EU players that came in were at least role players. If someone doesn't put up 30ppg isn't exactly a bust. Just means he plays different role in a team and can still be productive.... Athleticism can only bring you so far... Lebron wouldn't be this good if he was dumb as a rock. Kobe wasn't as strong and athletic as Lebron but he is the only guy i would bet all my money on to beat MJ 1 : 1 because he was smart and skilled.

And another notion that i just can't understand. When you say he has high BBIQ, he has lower ceiling than anyone else because he is already a smart and good player... What kind of IDIOTIC and stupid way of thinking is that? You are really trying to tell me that a 19yo bball player who has Nash type of vision and playmaking skills can not get even better because he is already good at 19yo? Dear lord... So i guess Nash and Ginobili were busts because they didn't improve or translate their BBIQ to 35ppg and couldn't do 360 dunk between the legs... And not to mention they were even older when they came in.

I will point out like i said in the beginning, i am not really defending Doncic here, because i can't predict the future and i can't say how good he will translate, but i will just point out that the logic some use is incredibly flawed. It is MUCH MUCH MUCH more easier and likely that a 19yo with freaking genius bball brain will evolve more than someone who only knows how to shoot and dunk.


Athleticism is easy to work on? Not when you are talking about elite athletes, you either have that or you don't. It's like the old saying you can't teach size. I doubt any pro EU player is going to come to NBA and jump into a completely different stratosphere athletically from where they were prior. The issue is we aren't comparing entirely unskilled players to Luka Doncic or any other EU player. Porter Jr. or another athlete can technically develop the same skills as any skilled player, but that skilled player will likely never grow into something physically that they aren't already. Doncic isn't going to be 7 feet tall unless some medical marvel stuff happens. He won't have Porter Jr.'s package of athletic ability and considering Porter Jr. isn't someone who can't chew bubblegum and walk straight that does provide an argument for him being a better prospect than Doncic. My opinion still remains, I'll take the verifiable skills, and what appears to be a diehard balls out approach to the game that Doncic brings over Porter Jr.'s upside because it would be a shame for the Kings to bust out on someone unless that someone is a mythic level unicorn like Bamba. If you're going to bust out go all the way with it, haha.

Just to add, I think the most underrated part of what Doncic brings is above the shoulders. The Kings have talked about bringing in players that love the game of basketball and I don't see a single player in this entire draft that appears to be that more than Doncic. This is someone that cried when he had to leave a game from injury. Unless he becomes one of those Euros that change when they get to the NBA and get homesick or something I can't see how the Kings don't jump on him right away, he fits the culture tag line they've been peddling since trading Demarcus to a T.
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1789 » by Eisenheart » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:30 pm

rpa wrote:
Eisenheart wrote:that's the big question, who is supposed to be the superstar at #2? Bagley? looooooooooool! JJJ, Bamba? C'mon, nobody of this guys will become a superstar, maybe important role player but not more. the only possible star is Trae Young but he has so much bust potential and we don't need a PG. and Porter, so many questions behind him. for me to risky at 2. Doncic would make us happy


Bamba is a definite NO in my opinion (see previous posts about him), but I think JJJ and Bagley have some clear (though not likely) ways to get there. Bagley athleticism and skillset give him the chance to be an Amare-ish type offensively, but in a slightly different way due to his motor. JJJ is such an interesting one because he's so young and yet so skilled in some very important areas (shooting, rotations, etc.). If the small sample size of creation/ballhandling we saw at MSU weren't a mirage he's really got the chance to be a superstar 2-way player (dare I say a KG-ish type).



whichs skills does Bagley have that make him a possible star? no shot, no passing, no great handles, no defense, no wingspan, is a tweener... he is an athletic freak with nothing more. next Okafor and doesn't seem to be clever...
JJJ is a nice prospect, i like him but he is more type Ibaka than a first option. good shooter and defender, he has definitly the skillset to have a great NBA career but he'll never ever be a franchise player. thought that is our goal with a #2 pick?
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1790 » by rpa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:16 pm

Eisenheart wrote:whichs skills does Bagley have that make him a possible star? no shot, no passing, no great handles, no defense, no wingspan, is a tweener... he is an athletic freak with nothing more. next Okafor and doesn't seem to be clever...


:lol:

Okafor and Bagley are absolutely nothing alike. Okafor was garbage in the league because he was a poor rim defender, poor rebounder, poor outside shooter, and generally a plodding big man in an era when you can't be any of those 4--let alone all of them.

Bagley doesn't protect the rim well, but he runs the floor infinitely better, is a far better outside shooter (40% from 3pt range in college--albeit on only 2 attempts per game), and is a MUCH better rebounder. He's also not a primarily back to the basket player like Okafor.

Again, apples to oranges.

Eisenheart wrote:JJJ is a nice prospect, i like him but he is more type Ibaka than a first option. good shooter and defender, he has definitly the skillset to have a great NBA career but he'll never ever be a franchise player. thought that is our goal with a #2 pick?


JJJ showed some instances of offensive creation at MSU that looked really good. The question is really if those instances were a mirage or if they were real (but few and far between because of personnel or Izzo's instructions to him).

I also think you underestimate his defensive upside. JJJ wasn't great purely because he was a shotblocker. In fact, given that he was playing with a true big on the floor at most times, his primary defensive value came further away from the basket. In that, his abilities extend to the parts of the game where you NEED great defense: the perimeter and (similarly) in the pick and roll.
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1791 » by Sactowndog » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:26 pm

kingjawn100 wrote:i know its not meant to be a negative comparison but the Bogdan comparison is exactly why i WOULDN'T take Luka at 2. When people say Bogi's skill-set worked well last year, it worked well for a guy who realistically is a complimentary/role player. If a guy like that is your best player you simply aren't winning a ton of games.

Although Bogi is crafty and smart there are plays each game where he simply has to give the ball up because he doesn't have the athletic ability to either get to the rim or create separation for a jumper. Luka, while younger, will have some of the same issues, and it's hard to imagine us making deep playoff run when 3 of our 4 best players (luka, bogi, buddy) all have issues getting their own shot.

i don't think ive heard one person say that Luka's gonna be MUCH better than Bogi and that kinda scares me. Can someone break down an area where he is or projects to be MUCH better than Bogi?

At 7 im fine taking the crafty/basketball IQ guy...at 2 i want a superstar who's gonna make the basketball IQ guys/role players look even better.


I would say it’s a bit worse than that. When I watched Bogi he didn’t use his step back as much in Europe and I would say Bogi is still working on his footwork on his step back 3 in the NBA. Bogi could drive past people in Europe and guard Euro point guards... Luka can’t. Bogi is also very long with a 7 ft wingspan. It’s unknown what Luka’s wingspan is.

So it’s not unrealistic to claim Bogi is more athletic and longer than Luka!!
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1792 » by Sactowndog » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:35 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
kingjawn100 wrote:i know its not meant to be a negative comparison but the Bogdan comparison is exactly why i WOULDN'T take Luka at 2. When people say Bogi's skill-set worked well last year, it worked well for a guy who realistically is a complimentary/role player. If a guy like that is your best player you simply aren't winning a ton of games.

Although Bogi is crafty and smart there are plays each game where he simply has to give the ball up because he doesn't have the athletic ability to either get to the rim or create separation for a jumper. Luka, while younger, will have some of the same issues, and it's hard to imagine us making deep playoff run when 3 of our 4 best players (luka, bogi, buddy) all have issues getting their own shot.

i don't think ive heard one person say that Luka's gonna be MUCH better than Bogi and that kinda scares me. Can someone break down an area where he is or projects to be MUCH better than Bogi?

At 7 im fine taking the crafty/basketball IQ guy...at 2 i want a superstar who's gonna make the basketball IQ guys/role players look even better.


I don’t think I’ve heard anyone say Bogdanovic is on the same level of player of Doncic. That’s why you play him at PF (your concerns athletically may be justified at the wing) which is his NBA position IMO. Who is the supposed superstar your taking at 2 (all these players have counter arguments)?


He’s just not long enough or athletic enough to play power forward. Watch his games or highlight tapes. Even when he blocked someone he only got his wrist to the rim level. He mostly throws step backs and floaters over smaller players that a defensive 4 will eat up.

That’s my concern with him. Not athletic enough for the wing and not long/explosive enough for the 4.

I have concerns about others but those concerns are around can <blank> develop not something God left out.
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1793 » by simonbampfield » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:25 pm

Luka’s game will 100% translate to the NBA. He is the pick and while he might not dominate right from the word go (I still see a really good rookie campaign from him) he is going to surprise people. He will trend to being elite at 3pt shooting and he will absolutely get quicker than what he is now.
He is the surest pick/highest floor of any player in this draft.
On a similar note, ask yourselves this - why are these reports coming that 2,3,4 don’t want to draft Luka but there are a lot of teams wanting to trade up to get him?
The simple answer is because they all want him, but know he isn’t lasting past the Kings if the Suns don’t select him.


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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1794 » by KF10 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:41 pm

I’m a huge Doncic supporter but I have to wonder how he and Fox going to play together. I know they are going to share PG responsibilities at first but who is going be the main ball handler later on?

Which player can put their ego to the side (imo, Fox in this case) and let the other guy be the main guy down the line?

To me, if you draft Doncic, he is going to be the main guy real soon. Can Fox accommodate his game to mesh with Doncic’s?

The hope is that both Fox and Doncic can play together and form a dynamic duo. In theory, having multiple (competent) ball handlers on the court is a plus. Fox, Bogi and Doncic games should form a fluid blend of offensive talent. Adding Giles to the mix, you now have 4 players on the court who are very capable with the ball in their hands.

I really believe Doncic should be the Kings’ draft choice.
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1795 » by kingjawn100 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:57 pm

KF10 wrote:I’m a huge Doncic supporter but I have to wonder how he and Fox going to play together. I know they are going to share PG responsibilities but at first but who is going be the main ball handler later on?

Which player can put their ego to the side (imo, Fox in this case) and let the other guy be the main guy down the line?

To me, if you draft Doncic, he is going to be the main guy real soon. Can Fox accommodate his game to mesh with Doncic’s?

The hope is that both Fox and Doncic can play together and form a dynamic duo. In theory, having multiple (competent) ball handlers on the court is a plus. Fox, Bogi and Doncic games should form a fluid blend of offensive talent. Adding Giles to the mix, you now have 4 players on the court who are very capable with the ball in their hands.

I really believe Doncic should be the Kings’ draft choice.


The thing that i'm dreading is the following play happening all year:

Luka dribbles up the court, pounds the ball, can't get by his defender, then slings a nice skip pass to Fox on the perimeter with 5 seconds left on the shot clock.. and he bricks a jumper.

Luka is so ball dominant and Fox is not a shooter. That combination gives me fear that it won't work.
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1796 » by SactoKingsFan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:57 pm

I'd expect Doncic to be the primary ball handler. Would be a waste to draft an elite playmaker like Doncic then make him a secondary ball handler.

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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1797 » by BoogieTime » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:01 pm

The other issue is, you have to say, at this point, JJJ and Bamba are not wanting to work out here. I doubt our FO doesn’t want to see them, and who knows, maybe they will come in last minute. But Vlade has a history of going with those who worked out here
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1798 » by kingjawn100 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:10 pm

As much as i kill Doncic i also have a ton of concerns with Porter too...
He has that awfully high center of gravity and virtually no leg strength. Really concerns me. It makes me think he'll end up almost exclusively as a jump shooter who gets pushed around on defense. Of course guys get stronger but is a guy a year removed from major back surgery gonna be doing squats to strengthen his legs? I think he, more than a lot of the skinnier guys in the draft, will have trouble adding weight/muscle.

It does seem strange that the Kings haven't even met with JJJ or Bamba. Seems shortsighted but i guess vlade can't afford to take a player who develops slowly..or maybe there have been some talks under the radar.

Also you wonder what happens if the Suns shock the world and take Doncic. You'd think the Kings scoop up Ayton in a heartbeat but i don't think anyone in the organization has even spoken to him. Vlade seems reluctant to take players he hasn't seen. i think he'd go bagley/mpj.
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1799 » by rpa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:15 pm

Fun (or depressing) thought:

If we play the WWMD (What Would the Maloofs Do) game and just reverse the result then the answer is: pick anyone but Doncic because you know they'd want to pick him and try to market the hell out of him to all Spanish speakers irregardless of nationality (remember: they weren't too smart).
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Re: Draft Watch 2018 

Post#1800 » by kingjawn100 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:17 pm

SactoKingsFan wrote:I'd expect Doncic to be the primary ball handler. Would be a waste to draft an elite playmaker like Doncic then make him a secondary ball handler.

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If this is the plan i'd be even more concerned. After just a year you're basically admitting the Fox pick was a mistake/giving up on him as a starter. If Luka is the primary ball handler wouldn't you want to start Bogi/Buddy with him instead of Fox? (a non-shooter).There's a reason Rajon Rondo/Ricky Rubio don't play shooting guard...they can't shoot!

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