NBA 2017 Draft thread. 5th pick and 10th pick.

[OhioKingsFan]

I just wanted to chime in that I'd take DSJ and Isaac over Josh Jackson and Collins/Markkanen/OG/Mitchell.

[benchmobbin02]

No doubt. But taking Jackson and still getting someone at 10 probably evens it back out if not sending it skyrocketing in the other direction like Enderwilson said.

You think adding Collins to Jackson sends the combined value skyrocketing over DSJ and Isaac?

Maybe, Collins has some nice potential. I'm still not a fan of taking a big at 10 if they draft a SF/PF though, so restricting it to him leaves out other options that in my opinion could be better.

It's a prediction, an opinion. What is your prediction in this scenario? Do you think Jackson and Collins is far above DSJ and Isaac's?

[SacKingZZZ]

You think adding Collins to Jackson sends the combined value skyrocketing over DSJ and Isaac?

Maybe, Collins has some nice potential. I'm still not a fan of taking a big at 10 if they draft a SF/PF though, so restricting it to him leaves out other options that in my opinion could be better.

It's a prediction, an opinion. What is your prediction in this scenario? Do you think Jackson and Collins is far above DSJ and Isaac's?

Them as a package, no, not far.

[City of Trees]

So Josh Jackson will workout for the Kings.

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[benchmobbin02]

Maybe, Collins has some nice potential. I'm still not a fan of taking a big at 10 if they draft a SF/PF though, so restricting it to him leaves out other options that in my opinion could be better.

It's a prediction, an opinion. What is your prediction in this scenario? Do you think Jackson and Collins is far above DSJ and Isaac's?

Them as a package, no, not far.

Damn, took 5 replies to get you to commit haha!

[benchmobbin02]

So Josh Jackson will workout for the Kings.

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Now this is something to be impressed with.

They said that the Kings are handling all his workouts and the Lakers people will be coming to Sac to watch him.

[SacKingZZZ]

Hmmmm... thank you Scott Perry?

It's also has to be nice to be one of the few teams with nothing but completely open roads at both PG and SF in a draft where 6-7 of the top prospects play one of those two positions.

It could also be a sign the Kings are indeed looking at moving up.

[Vince5693]

Sixers fan here
How would you feel about something like this:
Kings receive:
#3
Okafor
#36
#50

Sixers get:
#5
#10

You move up and grab the guy you want at 3, whether it be fox, ball or Jackson. You also get a center to come off the bench who hasn't lived up to his potential. Then try to strike gold in the top of the second round.

[kingjawn100]

This all seems crazy to me. I watched a TON of college basketball this year and to me the best player in the draft, and the most can't miss prospect is without a doubt JAYSON TATUM. If he's not a 20 & 10 guy in 2 years i'd be shocked. He really has no true flaw and honestly late in the season i thought he had a legit shot to go #1 over Fultz.

The people who complain about his athleticism need to realize this. First off he's no Josh Jackson athletically but he's athletic enough. Secondly and more important he has almost every move in the book so he doesn't need to rely on sheer athleticism to score. He makes 3-4 absolutely jaw-dropping plays per game. I see a lot of Carmelo Anthony there.

If Tatum is there at 5 we should draft him, and take BPA at 10. I love this narrative of how great Fox is when in a ton of Kentucky games this year he was the 2nd or 3rd best player on the court. I'm not even sure how much of a true PG he is (under 5 assists in last 10 games of season)

To me a guy like DSJ has way too many red flags to pick at 5. If you think he showed a bad attitude on a bad college team what makes people think he'd have a good attitude on a bad nba team? Too many red flags for me on Jackson also (i see him becoming JYD or MKG). i wouldn't have an issue drafting Ball or Fox at 5 but a trade up is a mistake for all the reasons above.

[rpa]

Sixers fan here
How would you feel about something like this:
Kings receive:
#3
Okafor
#36
#50

Sixers get:
#5
#10

You move up and grab the guy you want at 3, whether it be fox, ball or Jackson. You also get a center to come off the bench who hasn't lived up to his potential. Then try to strike gold in the top of the second round.

Not only is Okafor entirely redundant on this team (he'd be the 4th center), but he's also trash. At this point I'm not even sure if I'd give up #34 for him. The seconds do little for the Kings.

Given the depth of this draft and the fact that it's looking like 2/3 through ~5 may yield the same caliber player, it'd take something of substantial value to bridge the gap between 5+10 and 3.

[City of Trees]

Sixers fan here
How would you feel about something like this:
Kings receive:
#3
Okafor
#36
#50

Sixers get:
#5
#10

You move up and grab the guy you want at 3, whether it be fox, ball or Jackson. You also get a center to come off the bench who hasn't lived up to his potential. Then try to strike gold in the top of the second round.

Helll no. That's horrible. I'd have to see more value from Sixers.

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[jeffjtk1234]

This all seems crazy to me. I watched a TON of college basketball this year and to me the best player in the draft, and the most can't miss prospect is without a doubt JAYSON TATUM. If he's not a 20 & 10 guy in 2 years i'd be shocked. He really has no true flaw and honestly late in the season i thought he had a legit shot to go #1 over Fultz.

The people who complain about his athleticism need to realize this. First off he's no Josh Jackson athletically but he's athletic enough. Secondly and more important he has almost every move in the book so he doesn't need to rely on sheer athleticism to score. He makes 3-4 absolutely jaw-dropping plays per game. I see a lot of Carmelo Anthony there.

If Tatum is there at 5 we should draft him, and take BPA at 10. I love this narrative of how great Fox is when in a ton of Kentucky games this year he was the 2nd or 3rd best player on the court. I'm not even sure how much of a true PG he is (under 5 assists in last 10 games of season)

To me a guy like DSJ has way too many red flags to pick at 5. If you think he showed a bad attitude on a bad college team what makes people think he'd have a good attitude on a bad nba team? Too many red flags for me on Jackson also (i see him becoming JYD or MKG). i wouldn't have an issue drafting Ball or Fox at 5 but a trade up is a mistake for all the reasons above.

Tatum has yet to show the ability to make the NBA 3 pointer consistently. That's a problem.


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[City of Trees]

This all seems crazy to me. I watched a TON of college basketball this year and to me the best player in the draft, and the most can't miss prospect is without a doubt JAYSON TATUM. If he's not a 20 & 10 guy in 2 years i'd be shocked. He really has no true flaw and honestly late in the season i thought he had a legit shot to go #1 over Fultz.

I think we all agree Rudy Gay has the tools to be a Star but he just doesn't have it mentally. I know a lot of us also have said Rudy Gay is a great comparison for Tatum.

So, is it possible for Tatum to be a better Rudy Gay? One with mental fortitude? If so Tatum very well could become a Star.

Tatum is an interesting prospect. High upside and decent floor.


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[City of Trees]

Tatum has yet to show the ability to make the NBA 3 pointer consistently. That's a problem.


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I dont see any reason why Tatum won't develop a consistent 3pt shot given his skill set and shooting touch.

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[City of Trees]

I didn't know Josh Jackson went to high school in Napa. Kings get a serious look at Jackson. No excuses there.

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[Vince5693]

Sixers fan here
How would you feel about something like this:
Kings receive:
#3
Okafor
#36
#50

Sixers get:
#5
#10

You move up and grab the guy you want at 3, whether it be fox, ball or Jackson. You also get a center to come off the bench who hasn't lived up to his potential. Then try to strike gold in the top of the second round.

Not only is Okafor entirely redundant on this team (he'd be the 4th center), but he's also trash. At this point I'm not even sure if I'd give up #34 for him. The seconds do little for the Kings.

Given the depth of this draft and the fact that it's looking like 2/3 through ~5 may yield the same caliber player, it'd take something of substantial value to bridge the gap between 5+10 and 3.

I agree, Okafor is trash; that's why I'm hoping he's included in the trade. But he wouldn't be the 4th string though.
Who are you thinking would start ahead of him?
There isn't a substantial gap between 5+10 and 3. What would you propose?

[City of Trees]

Sixers fan here
How would you feel about something like this:
Kings receive:
#3
Okafor
#36
#50

Sixers get:
#5
#10

You move up and grab the guy you want at 3, whether it be fox, ball or Jackson. You also get a center to come off the bench who hasn't lived up to his potential. Then try to strike gold in the top of the second round.

Not only is Okafor entirely redundant on this team (he'd be the 4th center), but he's also trash. At this point I'm not even sure if I'd give up #34 for him. The seconds do little for the Kings.

Given the depth of this draft and the fact that it's looking like 2/3 through ~5 may yield the same caliber player, it'd take something of substantial value to bridge the gap between 5+10 and 3.

I agree, Okafor is trash; that's why I'm hoping he's included in the trade. But he wouldn't be the 4th string though.
Who are you thinking would start ahead of him?
There isn't a substantial gap between 5+10 and 3. What would you propose?

It's pretty substantial in my eyes. Definitely more than a few seconds. I'd need to see a 1st or decent prospect for the rebuild.

WCS, Papa, and Koufos should all get PT over your tank commander.

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[kingjawn100]

This all seems crazy to me. I watched a TON of college basketball this year and to me the best player in the draft, and the most can't miss prospect is without a doubt JAYSON TATUM. If he's not a 20 & 10 guy in 2 years i'd be shocked. He really has no true flaw and honestly late in the season i thought he had a legit shot to go #1 over Fultz.

I think we all agree Rudy Gay has the tools to be a Star but he just doesn't have it mentally. I know a lot of us also have said Rudy Gay is a great comparison for Tatum.

So, is it possible for Tatum to be a better Rudy Gay? One with mental fortitude? If so Tatum very well could become a Star.

Tatum is an interesting prospect. High upside and decent floor.


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My biggest issues with Rudy's game were always this...

1.He is such a slow looking athlete. There is absolutely nothing quick-twitch about his game. He has great size but never seems quick enough to guard anyone or even chase down a loose ball (a weakness that will become 1000 times more glaring with a repaired achilles). What looks like a lack of effort a lot of the time is just lack of athleticism on his part.
2.He's always seemed to me like a really low IQ player. (i think back to the game he fouled the guy thinking the kings were down when we were really tied).

None of these ^ issues are issues that Tatum has. I don't think anyone's ever had complaints about his mental fortitude.

[City of Trees]

This all seems crazy to me. I watched a TON of college basketball this year and to me the best player in the draft, and the most can't miss prospect is without a doubt JAYSON TATUM. If he's not a 20 & 10 guy in 2 years i'd be shocked. He really has no true flaw and honestly late in the season i thought he had a legit shot to go #1 over Fultz.

I think we all agree Rudy Gay has the tools to be a Star but he just doesn't have it mentally. I know a lot of us also have said Rudy Gay is a great comparison for Tatum.

So, is it possible for Tatum to be a better Rudy Gay? One with mental fortitude? If so Tatum very well could become a Star.

Tatum is an interesting prospect. High upside and decent floor.


Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

My biggest issues with Rudy's game were always this...

1.He is such a slow looking athlete. There is absolutely nothing quick-twitch about his game. He has great size but never seems quick enough to guard anyone or even chase down a loose ball (a weakness that will become 1000 times more glaring with a repaired achilles). What looks like a lack of effort a lot of the time is just lack of athleticism on his part.
2.He's always seemed to me like a really low IQ player. (i think back to the game he fouled the guy thinking the kings were down when we were really tied).

None of these ^ issues are issues that Tatum has. I don't think anyone's ever had complaints about his mental fortitude.

So is it fair to say Tatum could be the better version of Rudy Gay?

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[rpa]

I agree, Okafor is trash; that's why I'm hoping he's included in the trade. But he wouldn't be the 4th string though.
Who are you thinking would start ahead of him?

I'd start WCS over him for starters and I'd probably give Papagiannis time over him too--not because he's a better player, but because the player the Kings are hoping to get from Papagiannis (after he's developed) is better than what you're getting from Okafor.

I just don't see what you do with Okafor. He doesn't stretch the floor, he's not a great passer, he's not a great rebounder, and he's a TERRIBLE defender. If you made a list of all the traits needed for a center to succeed in the modern game and then inverted every skill--that's Okafor. Even if you got him to be an average defender (which he's light years away from), you still have the fact that he's a net-negative on the offensive end. My point is: I'd rather try to develop a guy like Papagiannis than give Okafor minutes.

So to answer your question fully: I'd start WCS over him and I'd play Papagiannis over him. So he'd probably be 3rd string assuming that I traded Koufos for something.

There isn't a substantial gap between 5+10 and 3. What would you propose?

I disagree that there isn't a substantial gap. Given the "leaks" (or smokescreens as I'm sure some would prefer) it's pretty clear that Fultz, Ball, Fox, Jackson, and Tatum are the clear 1-5. Fultz is (both probably and IMO) on a separate tier, but the next 4 are pretty equal (though, to be frank, I'm not a big fan of Tatum). The difference between 3 and 5 is small from a value perspective. The difference between 10 and, well, nothing? That's substantial.

That said, here's the big problem: the Sixers own the Kings' 2019 1st round pick. Any trade the Kings make that sacrifices picks this year in exchange for picks in the future inevitably raises the likelihood that that pick is better.

If I'm the Kings, I'm not moving 10+5 for 3 unless the Sixers vastly overpay for that 10th pick. And when I say vastly, I mean it. Something like the 2019 pick back + the worse of the Sixers/Lakers pick next year. I don't expect the Sixers to do it, but I'm not going to give up that much value for what amounts to a marginal amount of increased value coming back.