NBA 2017 Draft thread. 5th pick and 10th pick.

[Vince5693]

Not only is Okafor entirely redundant on this team (he'd be the 4th center), but he's also trash. At this point I'm not even sure if I'd give up #34 for him. The seconds do little for the Kings.

Given the depth of this draft and the fact that it's looking like 2/3 through ~5 may yield the same caliber player, it'd take something of substantial value to bridge the gap between 5+10 and 3.

I agree, Okafor is trash; that's why I'm hoping he's included in the trade. But he wouldn't be the 4th string though.
Who are you thinking would start ahead of him?
There isn't a substantial gap between 5+10 and 3. What would you propose?

It's pretty substantial in my eyes. Definitely more than a few seconds. I'd need to see a 1st or decent prospect for the rebuild.

WCS, Papa, and Koufos should all get PT over your tank commander.

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Okafor posted comparable numbers to WCS and He's 2 years younger. He posted better numbers than papa and koufos.
I know you can't base it just on the stats but to say he would be stashed behind all three of them is crazy.

[City of Trees]

I agree, Okafor is trash; that's why I'm hoping he's included in the trade. But he wouldn't be the 4th string though.
Who are you thinking would start ahead of him?
There isn't a substantial gap between 5+10 and 3. What would you propose?

It's pretty substantial in my eyes. Definitely more than a few seconds. I'd need to see a 1st or decent prospect for the rebuild.

WCS, Papa, and Koufos should all get PT over your tank commander.

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Okafor posted comparable numbers to WCS and He's 2 years younger. He posted better numbers than papa and koufos.
I know you can't base it just on the stats but to say he would be stashed behind all three of them is crazy.

WCS's greatest contributions dont show on the stat sheet. He's already an elite PnR defender and can guard 1-5. Now, we've all seen what Okafor does on defense.

Papagiannis will get PT over him because he's Vlade's guy and he deverses the opportunity to develop.

Koufos is plain better than Okafor.

And lastly, Joerger simply won't give minutes to a guy who won't play defense.

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[rpa]

Okafor posted comparable numbers to WCS and He's 2 years younger. He posted better numbers than papa and koufos.
I know you can't base it just on the stats but to say he would be stashed behind all three of them is crazy.

Have you seen Okafor's advanced stats the past 2 years? He's found a way to be dead last (DEAD LAST!) in RPM the past 2 years among centers. And not even by a little. He's been last by a HUGE margin.

This might be OK if he brought something to the table skill wise that had value, but he doesn't.

[kingjawn100]

Okafor is definitely NOT the answer for this team (and one of the most unexpected busts of the last 10 years). Skal, WCS, and Buddy (the core of the team) play at a great pace and all i see in Okafor is a ball dominant lumbering big who plays no D. There's so much to hate about his game. Even Kufos has more value at this point.

[SacKingZZZ]

I agree, Okafor is trash; that's why I'm hoping he's included in the trade. But he wouldn't be the 4th string though.
Who are you thinking would start ahead of him?

I'd start WCS over him for starters and I'd probably give Papagiannis time over him too--not because he's a better player, but because the player the Kings are hoping to get from Papagiannis (after he's developed) is better than what you're getting from Okafor.

I just don't see what you do with Okafor. He doesn't stretch the floor, he's not a great passer, he's not a great rebounder, and he's a TERRIBLE defender. If you made a list of all the traits needed for a center to succeed in the modern game and then inverted every skill--that's Okafor. Even if you got him to be an average defender (which he's light years away from), you still have the fact that he's a net-negative on the offensive end. My point is: I'd rather try to develop a guy like Papagiannis than give Okafor minutes.

So to answer your question fully: I'd start WCS over him and I'd play Papagiannis over him. So he'd probably be 3rd string assuming that I traded Koufos for something.

There isn't a substantial gap between 5+10 and 3. What would you propose?

I disagree that there isn't a substantial gap. Given the "leaks" (or smokescreens as I'm sure some would prefer) it's pretty clear that Fultz, Ball, Fox, Jackson, and Tatum are the clear 1-5. Fultz is (both probably and IMO) on a separate tier, but the next 4 are pretty equal (though, to be frank, I'm not a big fan of Tatum). The difference between 3 and 5 is small from a value perspective. The difference between 10 and, well, nothing? That's substantial.

That said, here's the big problem: the Sixers own the Kings' 2019 1st round pick. Any trade the Kings make that sacrifices picks this year in exchange for picks in the future inevitably raises the likelihood that that pick is better.

If I'm the Kings, I'm not moving 10+5 for 3 unless the Sixers vastly overpay for that 10th pick. And when I say vastly, I mean it. Something like the 2019 pick back + the worse of the Sixers/Lakers pick next year. I don't expect the Sixers to do it, but I'm not going to give up that much value for what amounts to a marginal amount of increased value coming back.

If the Kings are sold on a guy that will go to the Suns at 4, then getting back that 2019 pick, or even changing it to another swap could be doable to me.

[Sacramento_King]

You think adding Collins to Jackson sends the combined value skyrocketing over DSJ and Isaac?

Maybe, Collins has some nice potential. I'm still not a fan of taking a big at 10 if they draft a SF/PF though, so restricting it to him leaves out other options that in my opinion could be better.

It's a prediction, an opinion. What is your prediction in this scenario? Do you think Jackson and Collins is far above DSJ and Isaac's?

Maybe it goes Jackson at 5, Tatum, Isaac, Markannen to Knicks and then we get either Frank or DSJ.

I cant see Minny dealing Rubio to move up two spots either. If that is the case, why dont we keep Rubio, 7 and 10 and just cut Knicks out?

[Sacramento_King]

Okafor is definitely NOT the answer for this team (and one of the most unexpected busts of the last 10 years). Skal, WCS, and Buddy (the core of the team) play at a great pace and all i see in Okafor is a ball dominant lumbering big who plays no D. There's so much to hate about his game. Even Kufos has more value at this point.

Okafor may not be the answer but he played on a National Champion Duke squad that looked to push the ball every chance it could so he has ability to play at a fast pace. He definitely hasnt looked good in Philly the last two years but it has been almost as much a cluster as Sac. If they offered KK for Oak, I would take in a heartbeat as he's cost controlled and has room for improvement. He needs a dietitian and improve his cardio but he could be a viable rotation big man.

[Sacramento_King]

This all seems crazy to me. I watched a TON of college basketball this year and to me the best player in the draft, and the most can't miss prospect is without a doubt JAYSON TATUM. If he's not a 20 & 10 guy in 2 years i'd be shocked. He really has no true flaw and honestly late in the season i thought he had a legit shot to go #1 over Fultz.

The people who complain about his athleticism need to realize this. First off he's no Josh Jackson athletically but he's athletic enough. Secondly and more important he has almost every move in the book so he doesn't need to rely on sheer athleticism to score. He makes 3-4 absolutely jaw-dropping plays per game. I see a lot of Carmelo Anthony there.

If Tatum is there at 5 we should draft him, and take BPA at 10. I love this narrative of how great Fox is when in a ton of Kentucky games this year he was the 2nd or 3rd best player on the court. I'm not even sure how much of a true PG he is (under 5 assists in last 10 games of season)

To me a guy like DSJ has way too many red flags to pick at 5. If you think he showed a bad attitude on a bad college team what makes people think he'd have a good attitude on a bad nba team? Too many red flags for me on Jackson also (i see him becoming JYD or MKG). i wouldn't have an issue drafting Ball or Fox at 5 but a trade up is a mistake for all the reasons above.

It's tough to gauge players at Kentucky since Calipari is one of those everyone eats coaches so a lot of guys get a lot of PT and no one seems to have ridiculous stats. Kentucky didnt have great big men this year so it wasnt one of those throw down to Towns, Cousins, AD and clear out. Look at Booker who basically just caught and shoot and has turned into one of the best young SG's.

I watched Tatum a lot and he would impress me as a guy who could be number two pick (I liked Ball as number one guy in draft and still do) over Jackson and Fultz but then would watch a game where he would over dribble and take a bad shot (he seems to fade on a lot of shots even when wide open) or lose dribble on fast break and change my mind. His handle needs to improve in my mind and his mistakes seemed a lot like Rudy. I kept seeing Gay when I watched him but can see the Melo comparison as well with his post moves and mid range game. He is a great rebounder and tough defensively. He can move his feet so I think he would get time right away on Kings. I wouldnt be mad if he was five pick.

I agree with you on DSJ as well. He could definitely be a star but I could see him being a dog as well. A lot of hero ball in him. I think he has high bust potential.

[VeganKingsFan]

This is hard to gauge and explain, but I was wondering where you guys would place our young players if they were in this draft based on their career projections compared to the players in this draft. This is my big board as of now if they were in this draft.

My Big Board If Young Kings Players Were In The Draft

Tier 1
1. Markelle Fultz
2. Lonzo Ball
3. Josh Jackson
4. De'Aaron Fox
Tier 2
5. Jonathan Isaac
6. Malik Monk
7. Zach Collins
8. Jayson Tatum
9. Skal Labissiere
10. Frank Ntilikina
11. Dennis Smith
12. Lauri Markkanen
Tier 3
13. Donovan Mitchell
14. Buddy Hield
15. Justin Patton
16. Willie Cauley-Stein
17. John Collins
18. T.J. Leaf
19. Bogdan Bogdanovic
20. Harry Giles
21. Jawun Evans
22. Caleb Swanigan
23. O.G. Anunoby
Tier 4
24. Jarrett Allen
25. Terrance Ferguson
26. Ike Anigbogu
27. Isaiah Hartenstein
28. Luke Kennard
29. Semi Ojeleye
30. Malachi Richardson
31. Bam Adebayo
32. George Papagiannis

This basically equals the Kings having picks 5, 9, 10, 14, 16, 19, 30, 32, 34 and whatever picks we get from taking on bad contracts.

[City of Trees]

“It’s one of those things you kind of dream of and you work hard for it. But I still work hard for this moment. Regardless if I go one, 60, wherever, you can still make a living, a career.” -Harry Giles

Mature approach coming from 19 year old Giles.

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/kings-blog/article154746174.html


I think Giles goes as early as 20. Maybe 15 if someone wants to overdraft him.

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[benchmobbin02]

Maybe, Collins has some nice potential. I'm still not a fan of taking a big at 10 if they draft a SF/PF though, so restricting it to him leaves out other options that in my opinion could be better.

It's a prediction, an opinion. What is your prediction in this scenario? Do you think Jackson and Collins is far above DSJ and Isaac's?

Maybe it goes Jackson at 5, Tatum, Isaac, Markannen to Knicks and then we get either Frank or DSJ.

I cant see Minny dealing Rubio to move up two spots either. If that is the case, why dont we keep Rubio, 7 and 10 and just cut Knicks out?

We were talking about a specific scenario. We know any thing can happen.

[Sacramento_King]

It's a prediction, an opinion. What is your prediction in this scenario? Do you think Jackson and Collins is far above DSJ and Isaac's?

Maybe it goes Jackson at 5, Tatum, Isaac, Markannen to Knicks and then we get either Frank or DSJ.

I cant see Minny dealing Rubio to move up two spots either. If that is the case, why dont we keep Rubio, 7 and 10 and just cut Knicks out?

We were talking about a specific scenario. We know any thing can happen.

Then I would take Jackson / Collins. Watching FSU, Isaac never stood out to me. He was just a player on the court who had flashes but I didnt see enough to make me go wow. I can see his potential but he has definite bust potential. I've said the same for DSJ.

[kingjawn100]

This all seems crazy to me. I watched a TON of college basketball this year and to me the best player in the draft, and the most can't miss prospect is without a doubt JAYSON TATUM. If he's not a 20 & 10 guy in 2 years i'd be shocked. He really has no true flaw and honestly late in the season i thought he had a legit shot to go #1 over Fultz.

The people who complain about his athleticism need to realize this. First off he's no Josh Jackson athletically but he's athletic enough. Secondly and more important he has almost every move in the book so he doesn't need to rely on sheer athleticism to score. He makes 3-4 absolutely jaw-dropping plays per game. I see a lot of Carmelo Anthony there.

If Tatum is there at 5 we should draft him, and take BPA at 10. I love this narrative of how great Fox is when in a ton of Kentucky games this year he was the 2nd or 3rd best player on the court. I'm not even sure how much of a true PG he is (under 5 assists in last 10 games of season)

To me a guy like DSJ has way too many red flags to pick at 5. If you think he showed a bad attitude on a bad college team what makes people think he'd have a good attitude on a bad nba team? Too many red flags for me on Jackson also (i see him becoming JYD or MKG). i wouldn't have an issue drafting Ball or Fox at 5 but a trade up is a mistake for all the reasons above.

It's tough to gauge players at Kentucky since Calipari is one of those everyone eats coaches so a lot of guys get a lot of PT and no one seems to have ridiculous stats. Kentucky didnt have great big men this year so it wasnt one of those throw down to Towns, Cousins, AD and clear out. Look at Booker who basically just caught and shoot and has turned into one of the best young SG's.

I watched Tatum a lot and he would impress me as a guy who could be number two pick (I liked Ball as number one guy in draft and still do) over Jackson and Fultz but then would watch a game where he would over dribble and take a bad shot (he seems to fade on a lot of shots even when wide open) or lose dribble on fast break and change my mind. His handle needs to improve in my mind and his mistakes seemed a lot like Rudy. I kept seeing Gay when I watched him but can see the Melo comparison as well with his post moves and mid range game. He is a great rebounder and tough defensively. He can move his feet so I think he would get time right away on Kings. I wouldnt be mad if he was five pick.

I agree with you on DSJ as well. He could definitely be a star but I could see him being a dog as well. A lot of hero ball in him. I think he has high bust potential.

To me a lot of it's the eye test with Tatum. He was the best player in the country the second half of the year. Willed his team to an ACC tournament title. Very impressive stuff and the skill level is off the chart. I'd say he has the same diversity of offensive moves as a forward as Fultz does as a guard.

People talk a lot about DSJ and the body language but Fultz's on-court demeanor was just as concerning to me. He was moaping on the court SO often and never seemed to show any passion (i never saw him get excited/he rarely even spoke to his teammates). The big difference though is that Fultz is going to a team where he's not the guy and can just blend in for a couple years whereas DSJ yelling at teammates in MSG really won't go over well.

[benchmobbin02]

Most sites don't hve up to date measurments for Ntilikina. I'll just leave this here...

Read on Twitter

[benchmobbin02]

I barely recognized Josh Jackson with his hair braided down. Had to look at other pics to confirm haha...

[benchmobbin02]

B/R just put out a new mock.

1. Fultz - Bos
2. Jackson - LA
3. Ball - Phil
4. Fox - Phx
5. Tatum - SAC
6. Monk - Orl
7. Isaac - Min
8. Ntilikina - NYK
9. Markkanen - Dal
10. DSJ - Sac

Remember when these those two guys (Tatum and DSJ) where the safe bets in the top 4.

[OhioKingsFan]

I'm expecting DSJ to wow some teams in workouts and rise up draft boards a little. If the Kings walk away from this draft with Tatum and DSJ then this off-season was a HUGE success IMO.

[City of Trees]

B/R just put out a new mock.

1. Fultz - Bos
2. Jackson - LA
3. Ball - Phil
4. Fox - Phx
5. Tatum - SAC
6. Monk - Orl
7. Isaac - Min
8. Ntilikina - NYK
9. Markkanen - Dal
10. DSJ - Sac

Remember when these those two guys (Tatum and DSJ) where the safe bets in the top 4.

Both have Star potential. I'd be very happy.

Highly doubt Dallas passes on DSJ for Markkanen.

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[SacKingZZZ]

I still don't like the look of a DSJ/Buddy backcourt, especially with Tatum. Too many mouths. Now, if New York passed on Smith and took Ntilikina instead I think they're making a major mistake. They need the talent, not a great fit/glue type of guy. If the Kings drafted Tatum Frank would be a great counterbalance at PG for the Kings though. I've been watching game video of Ntilikina lately and I see a solid upper echelon role player that is more than comfortable fitting in while not looking to take over. You never know how much a player will improve at the NBA level but I don't see the production potential out of Ntilikina right now.

[City of Trees]

I still don't like the look of a DSJ/Buddy backcourt, especially with Tatum. Too many mouths. Now, if New York passed on Smith and took Ntilikina instead I think they're making a major mistake. They need the talent, not a great fit/glue type of guy. If the Kings drafted Tatum Frank would be a great counterbalance at PG for the Kings though. I've been watching game video of Ntilikina lately and I see a solid upper echelon role player that is more than comfortable fitting in while not looking to take over. You never know how much a player will improve at the NBA level but I don't see the production potential out of Ntilikina right now.

If Curry, KD, Thompson, and Draymond can co-exist then Buddy, DSJ, and Tatum can.

It's all about how the Players approach the game. If it's about the team and not individuals I see no problems.

DSJ
Buddy
Tatum
Skal
WCS

!!!!!!!!!!



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