NBA 2017 Draft thread. 5th pick and 10th pick.

[SacKingZZZ]

I still don't like the look of a DSJ/Buddy backcourt, especially with Tatum. Too many mouths. Now, if New York passed on Smith and took Ntilikina instead I think they're making a major mistake. They need the talent, not a great fit/glue type of guy. If the Kings drafted Tatum Frank would be a great counterbalance at PG for the Kings though. I've been watching game video of Ntilikina lately and I see a solid upper echelon role player that is more than comfortable fitting in while not looking to take over. You never know how much a player will improve at the NBA level but I don't see the production potential out of Ntilikina right now.

If Curry, KD, Thompson, and Draymond can co-exist then Buddy, DSJ, and Tatum can.

It's all about how the Players approach the game. If it's about the team and not individuals I see no problems.

DSJ
Buddy
Tatum
Skal
WCS

!!!!!!!!!!



Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

Apples and oranges. Of course they can co-exist, they're winning and they are a fully developed team with fully developed players. Also where is the Draymond Green on that roster? If they were all complete players it would be a different story but you have too many players needing the green light to develop to their absolute fullest. It looks great on paper, but so did the TWolves. I think that's a more comparable situation than the Warriors.

[City of Trees]

I still don't like the look of a DSJ/Buddy backcourt, especially with Tatum. Too many mouths. Now, if New York passed on Smith and took Ntilikina instead I think they're making a major mistake. They need the talent, not a great fit/glue type of guy. If the Kings drafted Tatum Frank would be a great counterbalance at PG for the Kings though. I've been watching game video of Ntilikina lately and I see a solid upper echelon role player that is more than comfortable fitting in while not looking to take over. You never know how much a player will improve at the NBA level but I don't see the production potential out of Ntilikina right now.

If Curry, KD, Thompson, and Draymond can co-exist then Buddy, DSJ, and Tatum can.

It's all about how the Players approach the game. If it's about the team and not individuals I see no problems.

DSJ
Buddy
Tatum
Skal
WCS

!!!!!!!!!!



Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

Apples and oranges. Of course they can co-exist, they're winning and they are a fully developed team with fully developed players. Also where is the Draymond Green on that roster? If they were all complete players it would be a different story but you have too many players needing the green light to develop to their absolute fullest. It looks great on paper, but so did the TWolves. I think that's a more comparable situation than the Warriors.

Young players getting starters minutes playing within Joerger's system is the "green light". You dont need Kobe shots to develop.


Also I wasnt comparing the Kings to Warriros. I was simply pointing out mouths can be fed, especially the hypothetical Kings lineup I listed.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

[benchmobbin02]

I still don't like the look of a DSJ/Buddy backcourt, especially with Tatum. Too many mouths. Now, if New York passed on Smith and took Ntilikina instead I think they're making a major mistake. They need the talent, not a great fit/glue type of guy. If the Kings drafted Tatum Frank would be a great counterbalance at PG for the Kings though. I've been watching game video of Ntilikina lately and I see a solid upper echelon role player that is more than comfortable fitting in while not looking to take over. You never know how much a player will improve at the NBA level but I don't see the production potential out of Ntilikina right now.

If Curry, KD, Thompson, and Draymond can co-exist then Buddy, DSJ, and Tatum can.

It's all about how the Players approach the game. If it's about the team and not individuals I see no problems.

DSJ
Buddy
Tatum
Skal
WCS

!!!!!!!!!!



Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

Damnit! You beat me to this response haha

[benchmobbin02]

B/R just put out a new mock.

1. Fultz - Bos
2. Jackson - LA
3. Ball - Phil
4. Fox - Phx
5. Tatum - SAC
6. Monk - Orl
7. Isaac - Min
8. Ntilikina - NYK
9. Markkanen - Dal
10. DSJ - Sac

Remember when these those two guys (Tatum and DSJ) where the safe bets in the top 4.

Both have Star potential. I'd be very happy.

Highly doubt Dallas passes on DSJ for Markkanen.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

That isn't my personal mock. Alot of mocks have DSJ reaching us at 10th or Markkanen getting taken even earlier. We don't know yet. Just like this outcome like you.

[SacKingZZZ]

If Curry, KD, Thompson, and Draymond can co-exist then Buddy, DSJ, and Tatum can.

It's all about how the Players approach the game. If it's about the team and not individuals I see no problems.

DSJ
Buddy
Tatum
Skal
WCS

!!!!!!!!!!



Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

Apples and oranges. Of course they can co-exist, they're winning and they are a fully developed team with fully developed players. Also where is the Draymond Green on that roster? If they were all complete players it would be a different story but you have too many players needing the green light to develop to their absolute fullest. It looks great on paper, but so did the TWolves. I think that's a more comparable situation than the Warriors.

Young players getting starters minutes playing within Joerger's system is the "green light". You dont need Kobe shots to develop.


Also I wasnt comparing the Kings to Warriros. I was simply pointing out mouths can be fed, especially the hypothetical Kings lineup I listed.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

Yes, but it's never been all that out of this world when developed stars cherry pick a location while willingly taking a backseat to their personal goals and having it work out. The Celtics with Allen, Pierce, and KG is another example of that. You saw both Curry and KD sacrifice something including MVP candidacy in order to make it work. If you can find a young player who looks at the game that way coming in you've found a very rare personality. Like I said, I think it's much more comparable to the Wolves last year who had it all on paper and you saw what happened. And I think the Wolves players might even be a bit more diverse than this group still.

And yes, mouths can be fed to an extent but we aren't talking about a cast of the most diverse talents with the combination you listed above. Who is going to be the Draymond Green out of DSJ, Hield, Tatum, and Skal? I just think that the balance might be off there, not to a great length perhaps but still off enough to be detrimental to some extent. Someone is going to not be as productive relative to expectations which then inhibits value and in turn could cause issues with return should the decision be made to move on from the player that doesn't fit. That or someone in that lineup is going to have to prove the are what they aren't being thought to be initially. Maybe DSJ or Tatum develop into that role playing, defending, glue guy. It's possible but it's a gamble. I think out of the two there is a shot with each guy so that's a positive. I'm not sure I'd bet on it though.

[SacKingZZZ]

Saw on Jason Jones' twitter that Donovan Mitchell said Swanigan looked really good in the workout. I just saw some pics of the dude and it looks like he's a bit more toned.

[City of Trees]

Apples and oranges. Of course they can co-exist, they're winning and they are a fully developed team with fully developed players. Also where is the Draymond Green on that roster? If they were all complete players it would be a different story but you have too many players needing the green light to develop to their absolute fullest. It looks great on paper, but so did the TWolves. I think that's a more comparable situation than the Warriors.

Young players getting starters minutes playing within Joerger's system is the "green light". You dont need Kobe shots to develop.


Also I wasnt comparing the Kings to Warriros. I was simply pointing out mouths can be fed, especially the hypothetical Kings lineup I listed.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

Yes, but it's never been all that out of this world when developed stars cherry pick a location while willingly taking a backseat to their personal goals and having it work out. The Celtics with Allen, Pierce, and KG is another example of that. You saw both Curry and KD sacrifice something including MVP candidacy in order to make it work. If you can find a young player who looks at the game that way coming in you've found a very rare personality. Like I said, I think it's much more comparable to the Wolves last year who had it all on paper and you saw what happened. And I think the Wolves players might even be a bit more diverse than this group still.

And yes, mouths can be fed to an extent but we aren't talking about a cast of the most diverse talents with the combination you listed above. Who is going to be the Draymond Green out of DSJ, Hield, Tatum, and Skal? I just think that the balance might be off there, not to a great length perhaps but still off enough to be detrimental to some extent. Someone is going to not be as productive relative to expectations which then inhibits value and in turn could cause issues with return should the decision be made to move on from the player that doesn't fit. That or someone in that lineup is going to have to prove the are what they aren't being thought to be initially. Maybe DSJ or Tatum develop into that role playing, defending, glue guy. It's possible but it's a gamble. I think out of the two there is a shot with each guy so that's a positive. I'm not sure I'd bet on it though.

Willie is a glue guy and Skal has the personality you mentioned. I think you're over analyzing this. DSJ/Buddy/Tatum could be dangerous. Willie doing what he does, and Skal is your "Draymond" you keep asking about.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

[City of Trees]

Damnit! You beat me to this response haha

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

[City of Trees]

B/R just put out a new mock.

1. Fultz - Bos
2. Jackson - LA
3. Ball - Phil
4. Fox - Phx
5. Tatum - SAC
6. Monk - Orl
7. Isaac - Min
8. Ntilikina - NYK
9. Markkanen - Dal
10. DSJ - Sac

Remember when these those two guys (Tatum and DSJ) where the safe bets in the top 4.

Both have Star potential. I'd be very happy.

Highly doubt Dallas passes on DSJ for Markkanen.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

That isn't my personal mock. Alot of mocks have DSJ reaching us at 10th or Markkanen getting taken even earlier. We don't know yet. Just like this outcome like you.

Yeah DSJ making it to 10 is where the mocks will be wrong, because mocks are always wrong somewhere.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

[SacKingZZZ]

Young players getting starters minutes playing within Joerger's system is the "green light". You dont need Kobe shots to develop.


Also I wasnt comparing the Kings to Warriros. I was simply pointing out mouths can be fed, especially the hypothetical Kings lineup I listed.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

Yes, but it's never been all that out of this world when developed stars cherry pick a location while willingly taking a backseat to their personal goals and having it work out. The Celtics with Allen, Pierce, and KG is another example of that. You saw both Curry and KD sacrifice something including MVP candidacy in order to make it work. If you can find a young player who looks at the game that way coming in you've found a very rare personality. Like I said, I think it's much more comparable to the Wolves last year who had it all on paper and you saw what happened. And I think the Wolves players might even be a bit more diverse than this group still.

And yes, mouths can be fed to an extent but we aren't talking about a cast of the most diverse talents with the combination you listed above. Who is going to be the Draymond Green out of DSJ, Hield, Tatum, and Skal? I just think that the balance might be off there, not to a great length perhaps but still off enough to be detrimental to some extent. Someone is going to not be as productive relative to expectations which then inhibits value and in turn could cause issues with return should the decision be made to move on from the player that doesn't fit. That or someone in that lineup is going to have to prove the are what they aren't being thought to be initially. Maybe DSJ or Tatum develop into that role playing, defending, glue guy. It's possible but it's a gamble. I think out of the two there is a shot with each guy so that's a positive. I'm not sure I'd bet on it though.

Willie is a glue guy and Skal has the personality you mentioned. I think you're over analyzing this. DSJ/Buddy/Tatum could be dangerous. Willie doing what he does, and Skal is your "Draymond" you keep asking about.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

It's not over analyzing when you think the team balance is off. Willie isn't an issue. Skal could always develop that way but I don't see it. He'd probably be willing to defer but I don't see the all around skill set to make it work to it's maximum capability.

[benchmobbin02]

Yes, but it's never been all that out of this world when developed stars cherry pick a location while willingly taking a backseat to their personal goals and having it work out. The Celtics with Allen, Pierce, and KG is another example of that. You saw both Curry and KD sacrifice something including MVP candidacy in order to make it work. If you can find a young player who looks at the game that way coming in you've found a very rare personality. Like I said, I think it's much more comparable to the Wolves last year who had it all on paper and you saw what happened. And I think the Wolves players might even be a bit more diverse than this group still.

And yes, mouths can be fed to an extent but we aren't talking about a cast of the most diverse talents with the combination you listed above. Who is going to be the Draymond Green out of DSJ, Hield, Tatum, and Skal? I just think that the balance might be off there, not to a great length perhaps but still off enough to be detrimental to some extent. Someone is going to not be as productive relative to expectations which then inhibits value and in turn could cause issues with return should the decision be made to move on from the player that doesn't fit. That or someone in that lineup is going to have to prove the are what they aren't being thought to be initially. Maybe DSJ or Tatum develop into that role playing, defending, glue guy. It's possible but it's a gamble. I think out of the two there is a shot with each guy so that's a positive. I'm not sure I'd bet on it though.

Willie is a glue guy and Skal has the personality you mentioned. I think you're over analyzing this. DSJ/Buddy/Tatum could be dangerous. Willie doing what he does, and Skal is your "Draymond" you keep asking about.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

It's not over analyzing when you think the team balance is off. Willie isn't an issue. Skal could always develop that way but I don't see it. He'd probably be willing to defer but I don't see the all around skill set to make it work to it's maximum capability.

You don't know that the balance would be off til they play and grow together. I would be overjoyed for this outcome and see plenty of ways all the players can progress to their max and still produce in ways you're not seeing. Who's to say that DSJ's distribution game doesn't hit high gear once he is playing with other guys that can fill it up? Who do we know who will be on the court at the same time and which roles other guys on the team will fill that allows those young guys to develop? I think you pigeon holing this 21 yr old guys into the game they displayed in different systems is definitely shortsighted.

[benchmobbin02]

Both have Star potential. I'd be very happy.

Highly doubt Dallas passes on DSJ for Markkanen.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

That isn't my personal mock. Alot of mocks have DSJ reaching us at 10th or Markkanen getting taken even earlier. We don't know yet. Just like this outcome like you.

Yeah DSJ making it to 10 is where the mocks will be wrong, because mocks are always wrong somewhere.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

If you knew for sure you wouldn't be on a message board. Anything can happen. Even the mocks being right.

[City of Trees]

That isn't my personal mock. Alot of mocks have DSJ reaching us at 10th or Markkanen getting taken even earlier. We don't know yet. Just like this outcome like you.

Yeah DSJ making it to 10 is where the mocks will be wrong, because mocks are always wrong somewhere.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

If you knew for sure you wouldn't be on a message board. Anything can happen. Even the mocks being right.

True, but I'm pretty confident in saying DSJ will not fall to 10. Book it.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

[SacKingZZZ]

Willie is a glue guy and Skal has the personality you mentioned. I think you're over analyzing this. DSJ/Buddy/Tatum could be dangerous. Willie doing what he does, and Skal is your "Draymond" you keep asking about.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

It's not over analyzing when you think the team balance is off. Willie isn't an issue. Skal could always develop that way but I don't see it. He'd probably be willing to defer but I don't see the all around skill set to make it work to it's maximum capability.

You don't know that the balance would be off til they play and grow together. I would be overjoyed for this outcome and see plenty of ways all the players can progress to their max and still produce in ways you're not seeing. Who's to say that DSJ's distribution game doesn't hit high gear once he is playing with other guys that can fill it up? Who do we know who will be on the court at the same time and which roles other guys on the team will fill that allows those young guys to develop? I think you pigeon holing this 21 yr old guys into the game they displayed in different systems is definitely shortsighted.

No more than denying what you've seen out of players already as a guide to what they are most likely to become. It's possible it works to some extent, I already relayed that as well. It's all speculation on what it would turn into but in drafts where there are no clear all around talents being discussed it's a gamble that they'll show things they haven't up to this point. At that point it's a question of development. Tatum, Hield, Skal, etc. are largely seen as quality young players for the things they accomplish on the offensive side of the ball.

[benchmobbin02]

It's not over analyzing when you think the team balance is off. Willie isn't an issue. Skal could always develop that way but I don't see it. He'd probably be willing to defer but I don't see the all around skill set to make it work to it's maximum capability.

You don't know that the balance would be off til they play and grow together. I would be overjoyed for this outcome and see plenty of ways all the players can progress to their max and still produce in ways you're not seeing. Who's to say that DSJ's distribution game doesn't hit high gear once he is playing with other guys that can fill it up? Who do we know who will be on the court at the same time and which roles other guys on the team will fill that allows those young guys to develop? I think you pigeon holing this 21 yr old guys into the game they displayed in different systems is definitely shortsighted.

No more than denying what you've seen out of players already as a guide to what they are most likely to become. It's possible it works to some extent, I already relayed that as well. It's all speculation on what it would turn into but in drafts where there are no clear all around talents being discussed it's a gamble that they'll show things they haven't up to this point. At that point it's a question of development. Tatum, Hield, Skal, etc. are largely seen as quality young players for the things they accomplish on the offensive side of the ball.

And yet Hield and Skal both took steps on the defensive side of the ball in their short playing time. It's not really a gamble to see players developing in other areas as they become pros and play in different system like Joeger's which would demand they work hard on the defensive end.

[benchmobbin02]

Yeah DSJ making it to 10 is where the mocks will be wrong, because mocks are always wrong somewhere.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

If you knew for sure you wouldn't be on a message board. Anything can happen. Even the mocks being right.

True, but I'm pretty confident in saying DSJ will not fall to 10. Book it.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

Just a scenario. I don't really care as long as we get 2 quality guys and one of them a PG and one isn't Markkanen.

[VeganKingsFan]

Saw on Jason Jones' twitter that Donovan Mitchell said Swanigan looked really good in the workout. I just saw some pics of the dude and it looks like he's a bit more toned.

I've been high on Swanigan for a while. I've had him as a mid-first round talent even while I see him going in the 30's and 40's in the mock drafts. I would be so happy if we got him at 34, or earlier if we get the 26th pick or something.

[SacKingZZZ]

You don't know that the balance would be off til they play and grow together. I would be overjoyed for this outcome and see plenty of ways all the players can progress to their max and still produce in ways you're not seeing. Who's to say that DSJ's distribution game doesn't hit high gear once he is playing with other guys that can fill it up? Who do we know who will be on the court at the same time and which roles other guys on the team will fill that allows those young guys to develop? I think you pigeon holing this 21 yr old guys into the game they displayed in different systems is definitely shortsighted.

No more than denying what you've seen out of players already as a guide to what they are most likely to become. It's possible it works to some extent, I already relayed that as well. It's all speculation on what it would turn into but in drafts where there are no clear all around talents being discussed it's a gamble that they'll show things they haven't up to this point. At that point it's a question of development. Tatum, Hield, Skal, etc. are largely seen as quality young players for the things they accomplish on the offensive side of the ball.

And yet Hield and Skal both took steps on the defensive side of the ball in their short playing time. It's not really a gamble to see players developing in other areas as they become pros and play in different system like Joeger's which would demand they work hard on the defensive end.

That's true. And I brought up previously that I think there is a chance DSJ does become a much better one on one defender than he was in college if some of his one on one workout footage is to be believed.

Dave Joergers defensive game plan is a whole other argument and is part of the reason I think it's crucial that he has some really good defensive personnel at his disposal because his system will rely on it more than others. In particular when defending the 3 ball. The ability to slide and recover as well as aggressively defending pick and roll is a prerequisite. One of the primary knocks against Smith Jr. is the pick and roll defense he's shown up to this point.

[SacKingZZZ]

I love this interview from Donovan Mitchell. He says all the right things and talks about being the guy that does the stuff some others don't want to do. Also brought up Avery Bradley as a comparison. I wouldn't mind them looking at him if they do go SF at 5.

Watch on YouTube

[benchmobbin02]

No more than denying what you've seen out of players already as a guide to what they are most likely to become. It's possible it works to some extent, I already relayed that as well. It's all speculation on what it would turn into but in drafts where there are no clear all around talents being discussed it's a gamble that they'll show things they haven't up to this point. At that point it's a question of development. Tatum, Hield, Skal, etc. are largely seen as quality young players for the things they accomplish on the offensive side of the ball.

And yet Hield and Skal both took steps on the defensive side of the ball in their short playing time. It's not really a gamble to see players developing in other areas as they become pros and play in different system like Joeger's which would demand they work hard on the defensive end.

That's true. And I brought up previously that I think there is a chance DSJ does become a much better one on one defender than he was in college if some of his one on one workout footage is to be believed.

Dave Joergers defensive game plan is a whole other argument and is part of the reason I think it's crucial that he has some really good defensive personnel at his disposal because his system will rely on it more than others. In particular when defending the 3 ball. The ability to slide and recover as well as aggressively defending pick and roll is a prerequisite. One of the primary knocks against Smith Jr. is the pick and roll defense he's shown up to this point.

And under Joeger and this system his pick and role defense will not doubt improve especially as you say that is what the coach will demand.

Thanks for agreeing.