Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4

[City of Trees]

It's a perimeter driven league and Ivey is one of the best in this draft class. He may not go first but he will garner league wide attention because of the fact he isn't going #1.

Dude even Vivek was at that workout. Literally any team beat writer could lead with "(team X) has interest"

[BoogieTime]

Still surprised Sharpe is getting so much play in the poll. He doesn't pop out to me on the film I've watched, but all are entitled to their opinion. But, to clarify the position of the organization, IMO

Vivek has given the mandate to Monte to win now https://kingsherald.com/articles/sacramento-kings-trade-rumors-ben-simmons-monte-mcnair-deaaron-fox-tyrese-haliburton/
To the point where he has him by the balls by not extending him to cater to whatever wish he has. (Enter Hali/Sabonis trade for the direction)

And the next coach has been told that he is expected to produce a Wolves like improvement https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2022/5/15/23074013/sacramento-kings-expect-big-jump-under-mike-brown

After 16 years the fanbase has given the mandate to win by attendance, the franchise may be losing money in different avenues which Ive posted, and there is the loser record stench of not making the playoffs hanging over the franchise.

And now the team is fully on the clock with their best player going into UFA in two years..

It would take some balls to go that direction with the floor my man has, or to go with a player with any sizable floor with the entirety of the 4th pick

[LightTheBeam]

The more i've read its become a "top 4 player draft" with Ivey finding his way into the mix. Monte has proven he will take BPA.

I don't see why he couldn't fit with Fox. He's not a traditional point guard, yet hes a good secondary playmaker (something you can never have to many of). Biggest knock is his shooting, will he ever become a 42% 3pt shooter? Unlikely. But if both he and Fox can hover around that 36-39% area, I think that will be more than fine. They can both take you off the dribble and have to be respected.

I'm fine with drafting Ivey who could easily have the highest upside
S&T DDV for a TPE
Trade Holmes/Harkless + future 1st for Isaac
Use partial MLE on Otto Porter Jr
Resign Jones to a contract similar to Holmes 1st deal 3/15.

Sabonis/Jones
Isaac/Porter Jr/Lyles
Barnes/Holiday
Ivey/Davis
Fox/Mitchell

Thats a solid starting 5, with a nice bench. You have decent depth at the 4 if Isaac doesn't stay healthy, but its a risk id take.

[DNice68]

Ivey would bring a lot of flash, but I don't see playoff's with him. He is not a shooter or defender, and he needs the ball in his hands. He's athletic and can really drive, but the King's already have Fox. Him being here would also take away from Mitchell's minutes, and the defense he bring's. Murray actually seems like this guy for the Kings. It put's Sabonis at Center, where he'll likely dominate, and give's Fox a good big man shooter who can stretch!

[OxAndFox]

I think with Ivey getting more hype it is falling into Monte's hands. I think he takes BPA at this point, so one of the PF's or Ivey.
Sharpe is probably the only player that I don't want the Kings to draft. When the measurements came through at 6'4 that should have dropped him off any Kings board. You have a look at Bleacher Report and they have him falling to #10.
I wouldn't be surprised if Monte really likes Dyson Daniels too. For a trade down. His defense and versatility might slot in at the 3 eventually with a Fox/Mitchell/Daniels. The PO mandate probably prohibits him from drafting him though.

[LightTheBeam]

I think with Ivey getting more hype it is falling into Monte's hands. I think he takes BPA at this point, so one of the PF's or Ivey.
Sharpe is probably the only player that I don't want the Kings to draft. When the measurements came through at 6'4 that should have dropped him off any Kings board. You have a look at Bleacher Report and they have him falling to #10.
I wouldn't be surprised if Monte really likes Dyson Daniels too. For a trade down. His defense and versatility might slot in at the 3 eventually with a Fox/Mitchell/Daniels. The PO mandate probably prohibits him from drafting him though.

I see 3 outcomes -

Monte takes Ivey or Murray at #4
Monte trades down with Detroit or Indiana and takes Murray at #5 or #6
Monte trades the pick entirely for a win now player

[OxAndFox]

I think with Ivey getting more hype it is falling into Monte's hands. I think he takes BPA at this point, so one of the PF's or Ivey.
Sharpe is probably the only player that I don't want the Kings to draft. When the measurements came through at 6'4 that should have dropped him off any Kings board. You have a look at Bleacher Report and they have him falling to #10.
I wouldn't be surprised if Monte really likes Dyson Daniels too. For a trade down. His defense and versatility might slot in at the 3 eventually with a Fox/Mitchell/Daniels. The PO mandate probably prohibits him from drafting him though.

I see 3 outcomes -

Monte takes Ivey or Murray at #4
Monte trades down with Detroit or Indiana and takes Murray at #5 or #6
Monte trades the pick entirely for a win now player

I still think one of Chet/Banchero could fall. Outside chance of course.

Trade with the Pacers seems unlikely. Brogdon shouldn't be the target IMO. If they aren't going with length at the 2, just pick Ivey. It also means Holmes is going out in the trade to make up salaries and that would be a waste of an asset IMO. The Pacers aren't going to want a 5 for 2 swap.
Then you look elsewhere and the only two players of interest are Duarte and Jackson. Duarte too much and Jackson not enough. Perhaps the Kings kick in more for Duarte if they view him as their starting SG moving forward and Keegan Murray at the 4. Don't think it would be easy to get him from the Pacers though. If they view Hali/Ivey as a core moving forward instead of saying Hali/Duarte/Murray then I can see that.

The Pistons would have to be for Grant obviously and while sending out Holmes here wouldn't be as bad, Grant would be a King for 1 season. No way the Kings pay him what he is expecting.
So that would mean Murray is definitely Monte's guy and wants to pick him #4 anyway, which is completely fine if he is Monte's guy.

[LightTheBeam]

I think with Ivey getting more hype it is falling into Monte's hands. I think he takes BPA at this point, so one of the PF's or Ivey.
Sharpe is probably the only player that I don't want the Kings to draft. When the measurements came through at 6'4 that should have dropped him off any Kings board. You have a look at Bleacher Report and they have him falling to #10.
I wouldn't be surprised if Monte really likes Dyson Daniels too. For a trade down. His defense and versatility might slot in at the 3 eventually with a Fox/Mitchell/Daniels. The PO mandate probably prohibits him from drafting him though.

I see 3 outcomes -

Monte takes Ivey or Murray at #4
Monte trades down with Detroit or Indiana and takes Murray at #5 or #6
Monte trades the pick entirely for a win now player

I still think one of Chet/Banchero could fall. Outside chance of course.

Trade with the Pacers seems unlikely. Brogdon shouldn't be the target IMO. If they aren't going with length at the 2, just pick Ivey. It also means Holmes is going out in the trade to make up salaries and that would be a waste of an asset IMO. The Pacers aren't going to want a 5 for 2 swap.
Then you look elsewhere and the only two players of interest are Duarte and Jackson. Duarte too much and Jackson not enough. Perhaps the Kings kick in more for Duarte if they view him as their starting SG moving forward and Keegan Murray at the 4. Don't think it would be easy to get him from the Pacers though. If they view Hali/Ivey as a core moving forward instead of saying Hali/Duarte/Murray then I can see that.

The Pistons would have to be for Grant obviously and while sending out Holmes here wouldn't be as bad, Grant would be a King for 1 season. No way the Kings pay him what he is expecting.
So that would mean Murray is definitely Monte's guy and wants to pick him #4 anyway, which is completely fine if he is Monte's guy.

Duarte deal is the one that comes to mind.

Holiday + #37 + #4 for Duarte + #6

[KF10]

Ivy is an exciting player on the surface level but he is getting waaay overhyped imo.

I'm hoping someone bites on Ivy in the top-3. In turn, the Kings will get someone who was slated in the top-3 i.e. Banchero, Smith Jr, Chet fall to the #4.

[BoogieTime]

Ivy is an exciting player on the surface level but he is getting waaay overhyped imo.

I'm hoping someone bites on Ivy in the top-3. In turn, the Kings will get someone who was slated in the top-3 i.e. Banchero, Smith Jr, Chet fall to the #4.

None have a need for a SG though. Ivey and Green make little sense as scoring off guards. He's not playing with SGA and Giddey. Suggs isnt a primary playmaker or Ivey, and the Magic have Fultz and Cole, and that would be a leap to take him 1 anyhow.

So not only would they be going against the consensus, but going against obvious fit.

There were reports the Thunder were shopping SGA last year for Cade the top pick. I'm not sure they'd need to buck the consensus and take Ivey enough to trade SGA solely on that.

[KF10]

Ivy is an exciting player on the surface level but he is getting waaay overhyped imo.

I'm hoping someone bites on Ivy in the top-3. In turn, the Kings will get someone who was slated in the top-3 i.e. Banchero, Smith Jr, Chet fall to the #4.

None have a need for a SG though. Ivey and Green make little sense as scoring off guards. He's not playing with SGA and Giddey. Suggs isnt a primary playmaker or Ivey, and the Magic have Fultz and Cole, and that would be a leap to take him 1 anyhow.

So not only would they be going against the consensus, but going against obvious fit.

There were reports the Thunder were shopping SGA last year for Cade the top pick. I'm not sure they'd need to buck the consensus and take Ivey enough to trade SGA solely on that.

Yeah, it's wishful thinking at this point.

Hopefully one of those GM bites on Ivey and the Kings can snag a player that they really need though lol.

According to Carmichael Dave, he doesn't think the Kings will trade the pick unless it is a homerun deal. I remember Ham said that the Kings have a deal to move up at #2. Not sure who to believe. A lot of smokescreen right now.

But I do believe we go for BPA if we keep the pick, imo.

[LightTheBeam]

I'm just not sure where we go up with Banchero. We are basically committing to a terrible defensive front court with 2 guys who are best passing and aren't great shooters.

It's not 2002 anymore, I don't see that as a recipe for success. + my PTSD for a Duke big who doesn't play defense and can't shoot

[rpa]

I'm just not sure where we go up with Banchero. We are basically committing to a terrible defensive front court with 2 guys who are best passing and aren't great shooters.

It's not 2002 anymore, I don't see that as a recipe for success. + my PTSD for a Duke big who doesn't play defense and can't shoot

Advanced stats paint Paolo as a solid defender:

Read on Twitter

Further, his playmaking + average steal rate (for his position) tells me he has decent basketball IQ.

With Paolo, the thing I worry about more than his defense (at least in a vacuum) is whether his abilities translate enough to be a primary scorer. That is, his playmaking is great, but it's predicated on him having the ball in his hands a lot because of his ability to create and score. If that doesn't apply in the league then what is he exactly? He's not the greatest defender (though not a sieve), he's a mediocre rebounder, his 3pt shooting was below average by modern NBA standards. So if he can't score well in the league his value really falls apart. If he can it opens up his playmaking and he becomes super valuable.

That's why I think Paolo has (by far) the lowest floor of the top 3: because the other 2 guys have traits to be clear (and good) role players. Paolo doesn't. He's either going to be really good or borderline unplayable.

[LightTheBeam]

I'm just not sure where we go up with Banchero. We are basically committing to a terrible defensive front court with 2 guys who are best passing and aren't great shooters.

It's not 2002 anymore, I don't see that as a recipe for success. + my PTSD for a Duke big who doesn't play defense and can't shoot

Advanced stats paint Paolo as a solid defender:

Read on Twitter

Further, his playmaking + average steal rate (for his position) tells me he has decent basketball IQ.

With Paolo, the thing I worry about more than his defense (at least in a vacuum) is whether his abilities translate enough to be a primary scorer. That is, his playmaking is great, but it's predicated on him having the ball in his hands a lot because of his ability to create and score. If that doesn't apply in the league then what is he exactly? He's not the greatest defender (though not a sieve), he's a mediocre rebounder, his 3pt shooting was below average by modern NBA standards. So if he can't score well in the league his value really falls apart. If he can it opens up his playmaking and he becomes super valuable.

That's why I think Paolo has (by far) the lowest floor of the top 3: because the other 2 guys have traits to be clear (and good) role players. Paolo doesn't. He's either going to be really good or borderline unplayable.

Watching him play, he seemed like a capable defender, but one who lacked effort. Would love to see his conference only numbers. Watching march madness, there were so many plays he didn't even try defensively and it definitely left a bad taste.

Nice write up on the 2nd part, Id agree from the little I saw. I think the other 2 guys have a much higher floor.

Idk gut feeling just isn't a fan of Banchero. Maybe its the PTSD from Bagley like I said. I initially wasn't a huge fan of trading for Sabonis just because those old school big men who aren't rim protectors/3pt shooters are hard to build with. Not sure how I feel about doubling down on them.

[BoogieTime]

If two prospects are of a similar tier to the Kings brass, I think it will be higher floor and non guard.

The guard thing is subjective. I can only state my feel. Monte likes Donte and tried to move for him twice, and Davion may or may not be a bench player (and certainly doesn't want to be one). We can argue about whether Donte can rehab or whether Davion should be playing with Fox (as we do with Ivey), but the argument still stands, there are options at SG, that may not exist elsewhere in the unit. To me, Davion and Donte are reasonable options in McNair's mind for who is going to be starting at guard long term, but I guess it subjective. Davion is working hard in the offseason to in his mind as he said in his latest interview to be the best player in the NBA, and was quoted as saying that he knew one of him Hali or Fox needed to be traded in response to Sabonis move. He plays better as a starter, and Monte may believe in his upside as one.

So if there are two quasi potential starter at SG, there isn't really an argument for anything playing next to Barnes at the forward spot

But, thats if two prospects are around the same tier in the FO mind

[donkeylips]

if one of the top 3 are available at 4, you take him. if not, id hope they trade down and take murray or sharpe.

[LightTheBeam]

So Snyder not coming back, Mitchell "unsettled" by the decision. Meanwhile Utah telling everyone they will be aggressive and plan to build around Mitchell?

Ham reporting what we all already know. Kings fielding offers for #4. Either to move up or move out.

If Mitchell is off the table, I'm not really interested in the rest of whats been thrown around for #4. Collins or Grant just don't do it for me. Its tough to see anything else available that makes sense.

Really looking rough that Monte hired Brown for 4 years, still hasn't received an extension, and may be desperate to trade #4 for "win now" talent even if it doesn't really dramatically improve our long term outlook. I'm bracing myself for an underwhelming trade which will likely be Vivek's fault for the continued playoff mandate.

REMOVE VIVEK

[BoogieTime]

Trading down can be done multiple times, to a few spots back if no stars present themselves. Once to 6-7, then to 9-10 etc. (without looking at what those teams could offer)

Filling out the roster with 3-4 solid pieces.

[BoogieTime]

For the record, I dont trust Ham

Your not going to advertise you want one of the consensus top 3 and devalue your pick (even as I question if they should trade up)

Though I obviously believe in the shopping the 4 part

[rpa]

Really looking rough that Monte hired Brown for 4 years, still hasn't received an extension, and may be desperate to trade #4 for "win now" talent even if it doesn't really dramatically improve our long term outlook. I'm bracing myself for an underwhelming trade which will likely be Vivek's fault for the continued playoff mandate.

REMOVE VIVEK

Maybe I'm being delusional, but I think Monte making a crap, win-now trade (like when the Wizards traded #5--IN A STACKED DRAFT!!!--for Miller and Foye) would effectively eliminate him from ever being a GM again. He could claim all he wanted about how "his owner wanted to win", but you just can't come back from something like that.

In my mind, the Kings have a clear problem: they don't have enough top end talent. Fox and Sabonis? OK, sure. Sabonis is an allstar level player and Fox might be as well, but neither is franchise level. Together they aren't good enough to lead you to the playoffs--irregardless of what you put around them. So to me, the Kings need to come up with a "3rd guy" here. They can draft one (be it Murray, Ivey, Sharpe, whoever) or trade for one. But the worst possible thing they can do is dilute the value of the pick into a bunch of role players or trade down a handful of spots for a bench player.