NBA 2017 Draft thread. 5th pick and 10th pick.

[City of Trees]

I'm sure the Kings have serious interest in Mason with him coming in for a 2nd workout but I don't think it necessarily has to be at 34. He's projected late 2nd in most mocks. It would be fairly easy to obtain a pick in the 45 to 50 range.

If Fox goes before 5 then I can see Tatum at 5 and hope Smith drops to 10 (unlikely). If Smith doesn't drop then draft Mitchell at 10 which would make a lot of sense drafting Mason in 2nd round. I'm guessing they like him better than Evans, Morris and Williams-Goss. I like that Mason is tough, more explosive, and shot 47% from 3.

I'd still like to someway get Jordan Bell.

Fox/Mitchell/Bell/Swanigan
or
Tatum/Mitchell/Bell/Mason

I'm starting to lean DSJ over Tatum at 5 if Fox goes early. Draft OG at 10 to be your 3 and D. If Isaac falls even better! Then take whoever you want at 34.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

If the Kings want DSJ then I think they should just see if he falls to 10. I've been watching more and more game footage of him and I have serious concerns about his ability in pick and roll. Too many teams just step out on him and stop him dead in his tracks. I still think he projects as more of a volume guy who requires a lot of space to work. It's going to be a big like Isaiah with him, he needs to find the right team.

I think the only way DSJ makes it past Orlando is if Tatum goes #6.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

[benchmobbin02]

In a perfect world for the Kings he slides right out of the draft, but I can see many reasons why a team would take him as high as the 1st round. Now here's crossing fingers that they don't.

Do you think anyone will? Or do you think all the things that have him rated around 48th amongst prospects (size, age, ceiling, defensive inscints) will prevent that?

I don't think so but as they say, all it takes is one team. Like I said I think this draft is going to be hard to predict at the back end because it kind of gunks up position wise. Right now a lot of mocks I've seen have almost no PG's going anywhere from the mid 1st on, until deeper into the 2nd round. If Mason were to get drafted in the 1st I'd look towards a team that has more than one pick. I know he worked out for the Jazz and they might have a big hole to fill at PG if Hill leaves so they could be a danger for the Kings if they really want to draft Mason. I personally don't feel he's a stretch at 34 depending on who is there. I've seen Frank Jackson rated lower than the Kings pick and if he were there I'd rather see the Kings draft him because of his upside physically.

That's what I thought.

Most draft sites have Jackson, Sumner, Evans and White going in that range with Mason in the 50's. If anyone is targeting a PG instead of a position there it will be one of them IMO. Just let it go, he isn't and shouldn't be a smart option at 34.

Yeah, would much rather have Jackson at our pick if we did go guard and he is rated on avg. as a mid 30's pick from the 6 sites I looked at, not "later".

[City of Trees]

Good two-part breakdown of Fox vs. Smith Jr.. I'm really starting to like DSJ at 5.
https://youtu.be/sNyYzMZSmXc
https://youtu.be/t0ejDkKsG7U

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

[SacKingZZZ]

Good two-part breakdown of Fox vs. Smith Jr.. I'm really starting to like DSJ at 5.
https://youtu.be/sNyYzMZSmXc
https://youtu.be/t0ejDkKsG7U

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

The main issue with Smith, and it's worrisome, is the wall he seems to find off of pick and roll. Fox gets to and finishes at the rim before the defense can react. Smith almost always seems to find himself in traffic and relies on the below the rim finish. He's starting to remind me of some of the same things I saw wrong with Dunns game last year. Players can certainly find ways to adjust, but it's usually with excessive spacing or another team oriented concept that you have to sometimes alter your own game plan for.

[City of Trees]

The main issue with Smith, and it's worrisome, is the wall he seems to find off of pick and roll. Fox gets to and finishes at the rim before the defense can react. Smith almost always seems to find himself in traffic and relies on the below the rim finish. He's starting to remind me of some of the same things I saw wrong with Dunns game last year. Players can certainly find ways to adjust, but it's usually with excessive spacing or another team oriented concept that you have to sometimes alter your own game plan for.

Every game I watched of NC state I saw a clogged paint. Are you sure what your seeing isnt a spacing issue ? Because I can pull clips where DSJ ran PnR beautifully.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

[rpa]

The main issue with Smith, and it's worrisome, is the wall he seems to find off of pick and roll.

I think that's pretty low on a list of Smith's issues. Higher issues IMO:
1) Defensive intensity
2) Overall intensity
3) Ball pounding
4) Knees
5) Wingspan

Smith's a guy who could get you fired or get you GM of the year in a few years. If Fox/Ball/Fultz all go top 4 then I'd probably draft Smith at 5. Upside is tremendous, but comes with some serious worries.

[rpa]

I'm starting to really warm to the idea of drafting Mitchell @ #10--irregardless of who we take at 5. The idea of a 3&D guard to replace Temple (but better overall once developed) is really attractive. If you get Fox at 5 then you have a very interesting guard rotation of Fox/Mitchell/Hield/Bogdan where you could--arguably--play any combination of those 4 on the court at any time.

[dckingsfan]

I'm starting to really warm to the idea of drafting Mitchell @ #10--irregardless of who we take at 5. The idea of a 3&D guard to replace Temple (but better overall once developed) is really attractive. If you get Fox at 5 then you have a very interesting guard rotation of Fox/Mitchell/Hield/Bogdan where you could--arguably--play any combination of those 4 on the court at any time.

If you are going to do that - gamble. Trade 10 for 15 & 20.

[City of Trees]

I think that's pretty low on a list of Smith's issues. Higher issues IMO:
1) Defensive intensity
2) Overall intensity
3) Ball pounding
4) Knees
5) Wingspan

My pro DSJ rant: Smith was the #1 rated player before the injury. Scouts agreed he was better than Fultz, Ball, and Fox. Now for whatever reason Smith Jr is in the scouts doghouse receiving criticism for minor stuff and somehow we are suppose to believe that Smith jr. Is closer to OG and Mitchell than Fultz and Ball? Hell no. Yeah he had a knee injury but consider this- without training or working on his shooting during the offseason, Smith jr came in and showed he was more athletic and explosive than any PG in this draft. Knees can take a while to fully heal so one could argue Smith could show up next season with more explosiveness after training. Surely his %'s would be slightly higher with a normal offseason training program, right? DSJ will get to the line at an above average rate as a rookie with potential to be elite at getting to the line. Overall DSJ' s numbers compare favorably to Fultz with DSJ posting a higher TS% on close to the same amount of shots.

I'm not worried about Smith's intensity. His lack of effort on D towards the end of the season bothers me but when he's locked in he appears to be a good defender. Its a gamble with Smith but I believe the juice is worth the squeeze.

Potential wise, I think Smith is top 3 in this draft.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

[dckingsfan]

I think that's pretty low on a list of Smith's issues. Higher issues IMO:
1) Defensive intensity
2) Overall intensity
3) Ball pounding
4) Knees
5) Wingspan

My pro DSJ rant: Smith was the #1 rated player before the injury. Scouts agreed he was better than Fultz, Ball, and Fox. Now for whatever reason Smith Jr is in the scouts doghouse receiving criticism for minor stuff and somehow we are suppose to believe that Smith jr. Is closer to OG and Mitchell than Fultz and Ball? Hell no. Yeah he had a knee injury but consider this- without training or working on his shooting during the offseason, Smith jr came in and showed he was more athletic and explosive than any PG in this draft. Knees can take a while to fully heal so one could argue Smith could show up next season with more explosiveness after training. Surely his %'s would be slightly higher with a normal offseason training program, right? DSJ will get to the line at an above average rate as a rookie with potential to be elite at getting to the line. Overall DSJ' s numbers compare favorably to Fultz with DSJ posting a higher TS% on close to the same amount of shots.

I'm not worried about Smith's intensity. His lack of effort on D towards the end of the season bothers me but when he's locked in he appears to be a good defender. Its a gamble with Smith but I believe the juice is worth the squeeze.

Potential wise, I think Smith is top 3 in this draft.

Love the rant - another reason NOT to trade up. We are going to get one of Fox, DSJ, Ball or Fultz.

Now, can we somehow move up from 10?

[rpa]

My pro DSJ rant: Smith was the #1 rated player before the injury. Scouts agreed he was better than Fultz, Ball, and Fox. Now for whatever reason Smith Jr is in the scouts doghouse receiving criticism for minor stuff and somehow we are suppose to believe that Smith jr. Is closer to OG and Mitchell than Fultz and Ball? Hell no. Yeah he had a knee injury but consider this- without training or working on his shooting during the offseason, Smith jr came in and showed he was more athletic and explosive than any PG in this draft. Knees can take a while to fully heal so one could argue Smith could show up next season with more explosiveness after training. Surely his %'s would be slightly higher with a normal offseason training program, right? DSJ will get to the line at an above average rate as a rookie with potential to be elite at getting to the line. Overall DSJ' s numbers compare favorably to Fultz with DSJ posting a higher TS% on close to the same amount of shots.

I'm not worried about Smith's intensity. His lack of effort on D towards the end of the season bothers me but when he's locked in he appears to be a good defender. Its a gamble with Smith but I believe the juice is worth the squeeze.

Potential wise, I think Smith is top 3 in this draft.

I don't think scouts are criticizing him for "minor" stuff. His ball pounding is a definite issue as are his issues with intensity. Those are things that are harder to fix than some of the other issues with top 5 picks.

I like DSJ if Fox is off the board, but Fox's passion and elite quickness (combined with above average athleticism) is what sells me. DSJ isn't an awful consolation prize, though.

[City of Trees]

My pro DSJ rant: Smith was the #1 rated player before the injury. Scouts agreed he was better than Fultz, Ball, and Fox. Now for whatever reason Smith Jr is in the scouts doghouse receiving criticism for minor stuff and somehow we are suppose to believe that Smith jr. Is closer to OG and Mitchell than Fultz and Ball? Hell no. Yeah he had a knee injury but consider this- without training or working on his shooting during the offseason, Smith jr came in and showed he was more athletic and explosive than any PG in this draft. Knees can take a while to fully heal so one could argue Smith could show up next season with more explosiveness after training. Surely his %'s would be slightly higher with a normal offseason training program, right? DSJ will get to the line at an above average rate as a rookie with potential to be elite at getting to the line. Overall DSJ' s numbers compare favorably to Fultz with DSJ posting a higher TS% on close to the same amount of shots.

I'm not worried about Smith's intensity. His lack of effort on D towards the end of the season bothers me but when he's locked in he appears to be a good defender. Its a gamble with Smith but I believe the juice is worth the squeeze.

Potential wise, I think Smith is top 3 in this draft.

I don't think scouts are criticizing him for "minor" stuff. His ball pounding is a definite issue as are his issues with intensity. Those are things that are harder to fix than some of the other issues with top 5 picks.

I like DSJ if Fox is off the board, but Fox's passion and elite quickness (combined with above average athleticism) is what sells me. DSJ isn't an awful consolation prize, though.

Without googling tell me who else was on NC State. IMO his ball pounding was the best chance for his team to win... with that said Fultz took more shots than DSJ however DSJ got to the line a bit more.

I think Fox goes top 4.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

[KF10]

I'm glad there are more people on the DSJ train. I like him too.

[SacKingZZZ]

The main issue with Smith, and it's worrisome, is the wall he seems to find off of pick and roll. Fox gets to and finishes at the rim before the defense can react. Smith almost always seems to find himself in traffic and relies on the below the rim finish. He's starting to remind me of some of the same things I saw wrong with Dunns game last year. Players can certainly find ways to adjust, but it's usually with excessive spacing or another team oriented concept that you have to sometimes alter your own game plan for.

Every game I watched of NC state I saw a clogged paint. Are you sure what your seeing isnt a spacing issue ? Because I can pull clips where DSJ ran PnR beautifully.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

Well, what would it be here? You have Skal and Willie, not to mention Papa. They should all be good pick and pop/stretch guys but still. Like I said for him to be able to get to the rim consistently he may need more spacing than usual. And I'm mostly talking about bigs coming up and showing against him being an issue. I've seen too many instances where that happens and he has to recover and start his forward momentum again. There just isn't that burst of acceleration in the half court. It could also be the knee not being up to 100% and he'll get better but I think it's cause for concern if we're talking about him at 5 over players like Tatum, Isaac, etc. At 10 I think he'd be a great pick up relative to that location of the draft. He's a small-ish, thick, below the rim finisher on contact (how many bigs have you seen him dunk over?), who can certainly get up and down full court with momentum. He's got star potential for sure, but I think you'll have to somewhat construct a team around him for him to reach that ceiling.

It's like with Isaiah Thomas, he needs to find the right situation for his strengths and weaknesses. Actually, the same could be said for Fox as well. I just happen to think Sac is a better location for Fox as opposed to Smith, unless Smith hits another level in those areas that I haven't seen too much of yet.

[SacKingZZZ]

The main issue with Smith, and it's worrisome, is the wall he seems to find off of pick and roll.

I think that's pretty low on a list of Smith's issues. Higher issues IMO:
1) Defensive intensity
2) Overall intensity
3) Ball pounding
4) Knees
5) Wingspan

Smith's a guy who could get you fired or get you GM of the year in a few years. If Fox/Ball/Fultz all go top 4 then I'd probably draft Smith at 5. Upside is tremendous, but comes with some serious worries.

Some of those listed may partially be reasons for it though.

I agree for the most part with your last statement. However I think he's a different risk at 5 because of the talent that should still be available there. At 10 you take him and don't look back.

[SacKingZZZ]

I'm starting to really warm to the idea of drafting Mitchell @ #10--irregardless of who we take at 5. The idea of a 3&D guard to replace Temple (but better overall once developed) is really attractive. If you get Fox at 5 then you have a very interesting guard rotation of Fox/Mitchell/Hield/Bogdan where you could--arguably--play any combination of those 4 on the court at any time.

I wouldn't mind it. He's a classic combo so you may have found your perfect backup PG and SG if they are lucky enough to land Fox or Ball at 5.

[City of Trees]

Well, what would it be here? You have Skal and Willie, not to mention Papa. They should all be good pick and pop/stretch guys but still. Like I said for him to be able to get to the rim consistently he may need more spacing than usual. And I'm mostly talking about bigs coming up and showing against him being an issue. I've seen too many instances where that happens and he has to recover and start his forward momentum again. There just isn't that burst of acceleration in the half court. It could also be the knee not being up to 100% and he'll get better but I think it's cause for concern if we're talking about him at 5 over players like Tatum, Isaac, etc. At 10 I think he'd be a great pick up relative to that location of the draft. He's a small-ish, thick, below the rim finisher on contact (how many bigs have you seen him dunk over?), who can certainly get up and down full court with momentum. He's got star potential for sure, but I think you'll have to somewhat construct a team around him for him to reach that ceiling.

It's like with Isaiah Thomas, he needs to find the right situation for his strengths and weaknesses. Actually, the same could be said for Fox as well. I just happen to think Sac is a better location for Fox as opposed to Smith, unless Smith hits another level in those areas that I haven't seen too much of yet.

Now that's funny you say that because his first step is close to Fox.


Also those bigs at NC State probably dont understand spacing like NBA bigs. Papa and Skal have mid range in them and Willie moves well without the ball.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

[City of Trees]

DSJ recorded a 48 inch vert in his workout with LA!!


Ha I like how i posted my DSJ rant last night and now today STR guys loving DSJ. I'm sure there is zero correlation (and it wasn't a great post) but it's still funny.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

[SactownHrtBrks8]

I am all in for DSJ, but I am probably the only one with you City of Trees

[SacKingZZZ]

Well, what would it be here? You have Skal and Willie, not to mention Papa. They should all be good pick and pop/stretch guys but still. Like I said for him to be able to get to the rim consistently he may need more spacing than usual. And I'm mostly talking about bigs coming up and showing against him being an issue. I've seen too many instances where that happens and he has to recover and start his forward momentum again. There just isn't that burst of acceleration in the half court. It could also be the knee not being up to 100% and he'll get better but I think it's cause for concern if we're talking about him at 5 over players like Tatum, Isaac, etc. At 10 I think he'd be a great pick up relative to that location of the draft. He's a small-ish, thick, below the rim finisher on contact (how many bigs have you seen him dunk over?), who can certainly get up and down full court with momentum. He's got star potential for sure, but I think you'll have to somewhat construct a team around him for him to reach that ceiling.

It's like with Isaiah Thomas, he needs to find the right situation for his strengths and weaknesses. Actually, the same could be said for Fox as well. I just happen to think Sac is a better location for Fox as opposed to Smith, unless Smith hits another level in those areas that I haven't seen too much of yet.

Now that's funny you say that because his first step is close to Fox.


Also those bigs at NC State probably dont understand spacing like NBA bigs. Papa and Skal have mid range in them and Willie moves well without the ball.

Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app

There were instances where I've seen clear outs and the same. He can finish though and I've see him take bigs off the bounce more than a few times, but Fox is at another level entirely than Smith off of screens and getting to the rim and also maneuvering in the paint. Smith finds bodies, Fox finds gaps. Smith tends to stop and pass out when he can't get into space. Great PG's are always moving. Now, the advantages do go both ways and Smith because of his bigger more compact body is probably going to be able to handle contact a bit better than Fox who is obviously a tad bit on the slender side to say the least. It's one of the reasons I think Smith translates to a volume guy. He's going to need to get to the line and I think he will need to get calls to be as effective as possible.