Sacbee: Kings/Nuggets talking Artest for Nene?

[TunaFish]

Denver would do that deal. Memphis probably would also because of Najera's expiring while giving up Miller's contract.

Sacramento would be taking on salary and that would kill the deal. I doubt the Kings can take Nene's salary unless they can dump another contract somewhere else.

[Ballings7]

Denver and Sac don't make solid trade partners

[TunaFish]

Denver and Sac don't make solid trade partners

In a way they are very close. Both are trading expirings to the other. The hangup is the difference between Najera's and Artest's contracts at about 2 million. Therefore, Denver has to send back another piece. That piece is likely either J.R. or Kleiza and both have about the same size contract, rookie contracts that are great.

The problem for Denver is that both of these players are solid contributers off the bench (sometimes as starters), have cheap contracts and are considered important to Denver's future. It is tough to justify giving up either for what is most likely a short term rental of Artest. Also, Kleiza can play power forward and when added with Najera such a trade leaves little depth in the front court. J.R. is a shooter but Sacramento doesn't need another 2 guard. At the same time. J.R. has value and is a tradable asset.

But the real problem with an Artest trade is the one faced by any interested team. Artest wants a big pay raise and will certainly opt out. Nearly every team like the Kings and the Nuggets will not be able to afford this new contract demand unless willing to pay the luxury tax or get rid of another contract (which will not be easy). That means that Artest will only be around a few more months and any team that trades for him does so with this risk. This is also the same risk the Kings have in not trading him.

There is a obvious exception to this: this would not apply to those few teams that will have cap space next year and who are mostly not contenders. Of course among the contenders, if the Nuggets, Kings or another team can unload someother big contract somehow, all bets are off, that team could then afford Artest.

So it is not that the Kings and Nuggets are or are not solid trade partners (they are actually as close as anyone), it's how much is Artest worth for a 2 month rental. At the cost of J.R. or Kleiza, maybe that is too much for the Nuggets. We will soon see.

[Ballings7]

Kings don't need JR Smith, though. Nor would they want him, I would think. Nor do they really need Kleiza, despite being a pretty nice young player and was supposedly wanted by the Kings, and the Nuggets aren't willing to give up Kleiza. Maybe not even JR Smith, too.

Najera/R1 pick offer was said to be the deal breaker.

So, until things change, Denver/Sac aren't fitting trade partners because there isn't enough there for a deal to happen. Or as a good possibility.

[TunaFish]

Kings don't need JR Smith, though. Nor would they want him, I would think. Nor do they really need Kleiza, despite being a pretty nice young player and was supposedly wanted by the Kings, and the Nuggets aren't willing to give up Kleiza. Maybe not even JR Smith, too.

Najera/R1 pick offer was said to be the deal breaker.

So, until things change, Denver/Sac aren't fitting trade partners because there isn't enough there for a deal to happen. Or as a good possibility.

If the reported trade of Bibby has just happened then everything has radically changed. Most of the Hawks players coming back are expiring contracts and that means that if the Kings are trading Artest, they can take on additional salary or move some of those expirings.

A Nene trade is now possible. The Bibby trade opens up a lot of possibilities.

[Ballings7]

But with all the baggage Nene brings (not behavior-wise, of course), and being questionable at best to even be back this season - why would the Kings be interested in him? I don't think they are because of the factors there with Nene right now, and in the future.

[TunaFish]

But with all the baggage Nene brings (not behavior-wise, of course), and being questionable at best to even be back this season - why would the Kings be interested in him? I don't think they are because of the factors there with Nene right now, and in the future.

True but Nene is a type of player that most teams (including Denver) doesn't have, a big body center who can move his feet with the quickest player, play offense and defense. Don't take me wrong, I don't want to see Nene traded but the possibility of a trade has improved dramatically for the Kings. There are plenty of other possibilites now open to the Kings including keeping Artest that didn't exist prior to the Bibby trade. Also some of the expirings coming from the Hawks are intersting trade pieces.

I like the Bibby trade for the Kings. I think the door now opens for the Kings to rebuild in a big way. My congratulations to Petrie and the Kings.

[Ballings7]

Yeah, I agree about Nene's ability, but the various negative factors are similar in significance and consideration, as his talent.

I actually don't like Denver for Artest. He helps them partially, but isn't the level of shooter Denver needs. Ron's an above-average jumpshooter, but not somebody who'll come in and drastically improve a team's 3PT shooting ability. Not being a top-level 3PT shooter, but he is a pretty clutch shooter. Also I have questionability on how he'd mesh with Karl. Probably would be okay with the rest of the players and stand-out personalities there, though.

Denver would also still be too perimeter-oriented, with the three pt shooting not being decent on top of that. I don't think Ron would push them over the top, with the issues still present on the team. Which are needing to be improved in, to take them to top contending level.

I also think Ron would probably leave Denver for a legit title contender, or go to Miami (if Marion's not back).

[TunaFish]

Yeah, I agree about Nene's ability, but the various negative factors are similar in significance and consideration, as his talent.

I actually don't like Denver for Artest. He helps them partially, but isn't the level of shooter Denver needs. Ron's an above-average jumpshooter, but not somebody who'll come in and drastically improve a team's 3PT shooting ability. Not being a top-level 3PT shooter, but he is a pretty clutch shooter. Also I have questionability on how he'd mesh with Karl. Probably would be okay with the rest of the players and stand-out personalities there, though.

Denver would also still be too perimeter-oriented, with the three pt shooting not being decent on top of that. I don't think Ron would push them over the top, with the issues still present on the team. Which are needing to be improved in, to take them to top contending level.

I also think Ron would probably leave Denver for a legit title contender, or go to Miami (if Marion's not back).

No disagreement with what you have said but I would point out the Artest is likely an expiring contract so the risk is minimal. Also, Nene's illness is readily treatable like Lance Armstrong. For that reason, I am not sure that Denver would be wise to trade him. There is also a possibility of a trade with Memphis that would bring back a perimeter shooter. The possibilities here are endless. The point is that Petrie has just created a door for opportunities that didn't exist just a few hours ago.

[SacKingZZZ]

If Melo is pushing for it maybe a Denver deal can get done.

[rosevillekings916]

If it does it will be a 3 Team trade!

[eathy]

i'm bringing this up again since Bibby is off to the Hawks:

DEN trades: Nene, Najera, JR, Wafer, 1st
DEN receives: Ron Arest, Mike Miller

Nuggets
C - Camby
PF - K-Mart
SF - Melo
SG - Artest
PG - AI
with Miller coming off the bench

SAC trades: Ron Artest, Udrih
SAC receives: Nene, Kyle Lowry

Kings
C - Brad Miller
PF - Nene
SF - Salmons
SG - K-Mart #2
PG - Lowry

MEM trades: Mike Miller
MEM receives: Najera, JR, Udrih, Wafer, 1st (via Denver)

Grizzlies
C - Milicic
PF - Warrick
SF - Gay
SG - JR
PG - Conley
with Eddie coming off the bench.

maybe send u guys a pick if u're not satisfied.

[SacKingZZZ]

I think getting Shelden may deter the Kings from going after another PF so soon. Petrie had to have targeted Shelden and seems to have high hopes that he gets a chance to play a bigger role here. When he did get solid minutes last season towards the end he produced a solid double-double in only 30 minutes a game.

[pillwenney]

I think getting Shelden may deter the Kings from going after another PF so soon. Petrie had to have targeted Shelden and seems to have high hopes that he gets a chance to play a bigger role here. When he did get solid minutes last season towards the end he produced a solid double-double in only 30 minutes a game.

But it still makes more sense to go after a PG than a SG/SF, since at least well, all of our SG's and SF's are proven.

[Ballings7]

On the big men, if we have a chance to get a more talented big man (in the draft), that chance can't and shouldn't be passed up overall.

I don't know if Shelden can be a starting PF in a longer-term sense. Maybe. He's appeared to be more of a center than PF, as well.

Regardless, I expect him to be something solid for us. I like his ability and up-side, and his size, toughness.

But it still makes more sense to go after a PG than a SG/SF, since at least well, all of our SG's and SF's are proven.

Agreed.

For the draft, SF should be a general third option. SG isn't a priority unless that SG would be a trade piece or Kevin's going to be dealt somewhere.

Ultimately, I still see us getting either a PF or PG with our pick in this years draft.

Those are still the two most uncertain areas on this team, too.

------

Now, with Nene, I don't see us being interested in him because of his situation.

[SacKingZZZ]

On the big men, if we have a chance to get a more talented big man (in the draft), that chance can't and shouldn't be passed up overall.

I don't know if Shelden can be a starting PF in a longer-term sense. Maybe. He's appeared to be more of a center than PF, as well.

Regardless, I expect him to be something solid for us. I like his ability and up-side, and his size, toughness.

Oh I absolutely agree on that front. I just don't think going after a long term, high paid PF like Nene is on the list of things to do right now. Unless they are really wanting him to be the guy moving forward.

This draft however is a great chance to add 1 or 2 more young guys with promise to our frontcourt.

I think Shelden is the kind of player that is mobile enough to play PF, and strong enough to play C as well. I don't think he is "stuck", as they say. He should find a role with us for a long time to come. At least I hope, in the right amount of minutes he has shown the ability to produce. If we play him 10 minutes a game, of course just like most players, he'll look like crap.

[sackings916]

im more comfortable with Shelden having a role of the 1st big off the bench than our PF of the future. Having a big man who can produce off the bench are very important to elite teams as well. I just dont think Shelden is a good enough player to be the long term starter at PF. I still think he can produce at a good rate off the bench though.

[Ballings7]

Oh I absolutely agree on that front. I just don't think going after a long term, high paid PF like Nene is on the list of things to do right now. Unless they are really wanting him to be the guy moving forward.

This draft however is a great chance to add 1 or 2 more young guys with promise to our frontcourt.

Yeah.

I think Shelden is the kind of player that is mobile enough to play PF, and strong enough to play C as well. I don't think he is "stuck", as they say.

Maybe so, I have seen only so much of him, and have read about him some, so am going off that. I was thinking lately he may well be like an Okafor-type big man, in this aspect. Basically meaning, "a big man", rather than lop-sided with a position. We'll be able to get an indication this season.

Ultimately I think it'll work out, though.

should find a role with us for a long time to come. At least I hope, in the right amount of minutes he has shown the ability to produce. If we play him 10 minutes a game, of course just like most players, he'll look like crap.

Moore's minutes need to be cut down.

[SacKingZZZ]

I guess it all depends what you need out of a given position. In starters minutes towards the end of last year he put up something like 11 points, 11 boards, and nearly 2 apg playing 30 mpg. That is pretty good. And his per minute stats are right around a player that will get you about that game in game out. Plus a block and a steal a game.

As a player he is pretty well rounded. He has shown flashes of being able to shoot a bit, and post up. One thing is for sure, he is automatically the most legit rebounder we have had for quite some time.

[Ballings7]

Yeah. He has ability and room to get better offensively.