Karl Officially Out, Who's the best fit to replace him?

[Kings2013]

I like McHale, but let's get real. I can't see Cousins respecting anybody mentioned, or anybody yet to be mentioned, or anybody who won't get mentioned. I never seen any person demand so much respect when he's given zero to anybody else. He's a career malcontent, and a career loser. His behavior down the stretch was as bad as it's ever been, and six seasons in, I think we've seen his true colors by now. He's just a douchebag with the thinnest skin in all of pro sports. Enough is enough. The Cousins experiment failed, and I can't believe we're going to continue to go down this path.

He played for a coach who put feelers out on him last summer who then tried to utilize him incorrectly - pace and perimeter dribble drive stuff - who the team quit on. Can't make a determination on that until I see another coach in here who actually tries to form a relationship with him and game plan for him, IMO

We will go down the path as long as there isn't a viable deal on the table that makes us a better team, on the court, regardless of who likes his disposition or not (doesn't bother me personally). Vlade has supported him as well as Vivek and I can't imagine them wanting to deal one of the best bugs at a discount. I don't think that deal will come, because of what your complaining about

All this is to say that I'd like to see him with another coach, and a lot of the fanbase feels the same

The 3pt shot was actually a great addition to DMC's game. He's actually more efficient from the 3pt line than the post... But either way, all the 3pt addition was, was extending some of his inefficient long twos out to 23-9. It's funny how you say he was being used incorrectly. Because that's not entirely what happened. As early as December they started to get Cuz more post touches, I recall George actually said something about this in the media at the time. This all led to a perfect offensive balance and use of Cousins. That January was the best Cousins has ever played, and the best this team has been in a LONG time. You mean to tell me we were using him wrong? He's no Shaq. You post him up every possession, he'll break the all time blocked shots record, seeing as how he usually leads the league in that category. Our problem was a lack of effort, primarily with perimeter defense. Karl's scheme demands high movement and activity on defense. Hard to get that out of a post injury Rondo who is clearly not the same as he used to be on defense (Allows penetration on pretty much every PnR), McLemore who has no energy (just along for the coin and ride), and Belinelli. Our best defender was Seth by far. Mainly because he was the only one to bring the effort. Collison did from time to time too.

And despite all this, Karl had us at the 8th seed at 21-23, despite multiple injuries to Cousins, WCS, Rondo, Casspi, Collison, and despite a 1-7 start... This team was working, then they got complacent and as soon as the loses started piling up and the doubt set in, the locker room issues returned. All Karl wanted was this team to play winning basketball. Team basketball. And he had us doing that. But as soon as the effort dissipated, he got thrown under the bus with Cousins' victim games, got the whole team against him, and this started the sour grapes from Karl.

So, no. "Incorrect use of Cousins and pace and space drive and dribble" isn't why this team failed. Was a top 10 offense during the first half of the season. I'd call that a win with a rotating door defense that limits fastbreak opportunities.

The point remains he isn't going anywhere until there is a deal on the table that makes the team better. Chasing him out of town just leads to him forcing a trade at a discount or leaving in two years, which will hurt the franchise either way

Cousins can't be guarded one on one in the post and needs to be featured there a lot of the time with shooting around him IMO. Karl schemes should have been changed on defense if they weren't working

Regardless the man can barely walk the sidelines and can't be heard due to vocal limitations. Iske is the primary coach in games. You support that?

[FrodoBaggins]

Karl has done everything bar winning a championship as a coach

And not every coach wins a championship

Infact only 31 coaches have won championships

Dude has coached 185 playoff games. Sixth most of all time. Think about that. Yeah he has an average W/L % in the post season, but so do other great coaches. Karl hasn't had the best rosters. They are usually overrated because as soon as he leaves they all drop in production. Him leaving Denver was pretty evident. Hell, we he came to Denver mid season, He took a 17-25 Nuggets and finished 32-8. There are no questions about Karl's ability and reputation as a coach. He's a top 10 all time coach and a bonafide lock hall of famer. Has a 59% Win rate in the regular season. That's better than Adelman who we praise.

There are no doubts about Karl's coaching ability. The problem was always Cousins. It will always be Cousins, unless a miracle happens.. Which it won't.

[Kings2013]

Karl has done everything bar winning a championship as a coach

And not every coach wins a championship

Infact only 31 coaches have won championships

Dude has coached 185 playoff games. Sixth most of all time. Think about that. Yeah he has an average W/L % in the post season, but so do other great coaches. Karl hasn't had the best rosters. They are usually overrated because as soon as he leaves they all drop in production. Him leaving Denver was pretty evident. Hell, we he came to Denver mid season, He took a 17-25 Nuggets and finished 32-8. There are no questions about Karl's ability and reputation as a coach. He's a top 10 all time coach and a bonafide lock hall of famer. Has a 59% Win rate in the regular season. That's better than Adelman who we praise.

There are no doubts about Karl's coaching ability. The problem was always Cousins. It will always be Cousins, unless a miracle happens.. Which it won't.

With all due respect, those are his past accomplishments and I think we see a different coach today. But its all opinion.

I think Cousins is a reasonably good kid, who is a hot head who wants to win who was in a tough environment this year.

I think the way to find this out is to bring in another coach who isn't going to personally clash with him or possibly his style this year. Which is why, barring a unforeseeable offer that knocks the FO out, we're going to find out by next trade deadline if I'm right or not. Then at the next trade deadline I'd be more comfortable discussing whether or not the team can succeed with him. I can't do it with a coach the team quit on widespread by all star break

[FrodoBaggins]

He played for a coach who put feelers out on him last summer who then tried to utilize him incorrectly - pace and perimeter dribble drive stuff - who the team quit on. Can't make a determination on that until I see another coach in here who actually tries to form a relationship with him and game plan for him, IMO

We will go down the path as long as there isn't a viable deal on the table that makes us a better team, on the court, regardless of who likes his disposition or not (doesn't bother me personally). Vlade has supported him as well as Vivek and I can't imagine them wanting to deal one of the best bugs at a discount. I don't think that deal will come, because of what your complaining about

All this is to say that I'd like to see him with another coach, and a lot of the fanbase feels the same

The 3pt shot was actually a great addition to DMC's game. He's actually more efficient from the 3pt line than the post... But either way, all the 3pt addition was, was extending some of his inefficient long twos out to 23-9. It's funny how you say he was being used incorrectly. Because that's not entirely what happened. As early as December they started to get Cuz more post touches, I recall George actually said something about this in the media at the time. This all led to a perfect offensive balance and use of Cousins. That January was the best Cousins has ever played, and the best this team has been in a LONG time. You mean to tell me we were using him wrong? He's no Shaq. You post him up every possession, he'll break the all time blocked shots record, seeing as how he usually leads the league in that category. Our problem was a lack of effort, primarily with perimeter defense. Karl's scheme demands high movement and activity on defense. Hard to get that out of a post injury Rondo who is clearly not the same as he used to be on defense (Allows penetration on pretty much every PnR), McLemore who has no energy (just along for the coin and ride), and Belinelli. Our best defender was Seth by far. Mainly because he was the only one to bring the effort. Collison did from time to time too.

And despite all this, Karl had us at the 8th seed at 21-23, despite multiple injuries to Cousins, WCS, Rondo, Casspi, Collison, and despite a 1-7 start... This team was working, then they got complacent and as soon as the loses started piling up and the doubt set in, the locker room issues returned. All Karl wanted was this team to play winning basketball. Team basketball. And he had us doing that. But as soon as the effort dissipated, he got thrown under the bus with Cousins' victim games, got the whole team against him, and this started the sour grapes from Karl.

So, no. "Incorrect use of Cousins and pace and space drive and dribble" isn't why this team failed. Was a top 10 offense during the first half of the season. I'd call that a win with a rotating door defense that limits fastbreak opportunities.

The point remains he isn't going anywhere until there is a deal on the table that makes the team better. Chasing him out of town just leads to him forcing a trade at a discount or leaving in two years, which will hurt the franchise either way

Cousins can't be guarded one on one in the post and needs to be featured there a lot of the time with shooting around him IMO. Karl schemes should have been changed on defense if they weren't working

Regardless the man can barely walk the sidelines and can't be heard due to vocal limitations. Iske is the primary coach in games. You support that?

I'll say it again. Cousins was more efficient shooting a 3 then in the post. Does this mean I'm advocating he takes threes all game? No. But you can't throw it to him in the post every possession. It won't be pretty. Turnovers, shots blocked. Stagnant offense. Selfish play. You need to play him with offensive diversity. His drive or pull up game is crucial to him accumulating foul shots. The best way to play Cousins is how we used him in January.

Cousins is an overrated post player. Good here and there when the offense sticks, and you need to get up a shot, or abuse a mismatch. 0.96 PPP. One of the best marks in the league, but there's a reason why teams don't post up a lot. They are not very efficient plays. Not in todays game. It has it's place, but that's not a viable gameplan. Once again, we had a top ten offense running with Cousins in the 1st half of the season. Perhaps if he lost the puppy fat, he'd be even better.

[FrodoBaggins]

Karl has done everything bar winning a championship as a coach

And not every coach wins a championship

Infact only 31 coaches have won championships

Dude has coached 185 playoff games. Sixth most of all time. Think about that. Yeah he has an average W/L % in the post season, but so do other great coaches. Karl hasn't had the best rosters. They are usually overrated because as soon as he leaves they all drop in production. Him leaving Denver was pretty evident. Hell, we he came to Denver mid season, He took a 17-25 Nuggets and finished 32-8. There are no questions about Karl's ability and reputation as a coach. He's a top 10 all time coach and a bonafide lock hall of famer. Has a 59% Win rate in the regular season. That's better than Adelman who we praise.

There are no doubts about Karl's coaching ability. The problem was always Cousins. It will always be Cousins, unless a miracle happens.. Which it won't.

With all due respect, those are his past accomplishments and I think we see a different coach today. But its all opinion.

I think Cousins is a reasonably good kid, who is a hot head who wants to win who was in a tough environment this year.

I think the way to find this out is to bring in another coach who isn't going to personally clash with him or possibly his style this year. Which is why, barring a unforeseeable offer that knocks the FO out, we're going to find out by next trade deadline if I'm right or not. Then at the next trade deadline I'd be more comfortable discussing whether or not the team can succeed with him. I can't do it with a coach the team quit on widespread by all star break

Common denominator

Why do all these coaches keep failing in Sacramento?

Querie: Perhaps it might be on our end, and not the coaches

Epiphany: Maybe it's Demarcus Cousins and the organization!

[Kings2013]

The 3pt shot was actually a great addition to DMC's game. He's actually more efficient from the 3pt line than the post... But either way, all the 3pt addition was, was extending some of his inefficient long twos out to 23-9. It's funny how you say he was being used incorrectly. Because that's not entirely what happened. As early as December they started to get Cuz more post touches, I recall George actually said something about this in the media at the time. This all led to a perfect offensive balance and use of Cousins. That January was the best Cousins has ever played, and the best this team has been in a LONG time. You mean to tell me we were using him wrong? He's no Shaq. You post him up every possession, he'll break the all time blocked shots record, seeing as how he usually leads the league in that category. Our problem was a lack of effort, primarily with perimeter defense. Karl's scheme demands high movement and activity on defense. Hard to get that out of a post injury Rondo who is clearly not the same as he used to be on defense (Allows penetration on pretty much every PnR), McLemore who has no energy (just along for the coin and ride), and Belinelli. Our best defender was Seth by far. Mainly because he was the only one to bring the effort. Collison did from time to time too.

And despite all this, Karl had us at the 8th seed at 21-23, despite multiple injuries to Cousins, WCS, Rondo, Casspi, Collison, and despite a 1-7 start... This team was working, then they got complacent and as soon as the loses started piling up and the doubt set in, the locker room issues returned. All Karl wanted was this team to play winning basketball. Team basketball. And he had us doing that. But as soon as the effort dissipated, he got thrown under the bus with Cousins' victim games, got the whole team against him, and this started the sour grapes from Karl.

So, no. "Incorrect use of Cousins and pace and space drive and dribble" isn't why this team failed. Was a top 10 offense during the first half of the season. I'd call that a win with a rotating door defense that limits fastbreak opportunities.

The point remains he isn't going anywhere until there is a deal on the table that makes the team better. Chasing him out of town just leads to him forcing a trade at a discount or leaving in two years, which will hurt the franchise either way

Cousins can't be guarded one on one in the post and needs to be featured there a lot of the time with shooting around him IMO. Karl schemes should have been changed on defense if they weren't working

Regardless the man can barely walk the sidelines and can't be heard due to vocal limitations. Iske is the primary coach in games. You support that?

I'll say it again. Cousins was more efficient shooting a 3 then in the post. Does this mean I'm advocating he takes threes all game? No. But you can't throw it to him in the post every possession. It won't be pretty. Turnovers, shots blocked. Stagnant offense. Selfish play. You need to play him with offensive diversity. His drive or pull up game is crucial to him accumulating foul shots. The best way to play Cousins is how we used him in January.

Cousins is an overrated post player. Good here and there when the offense sticks, and you need to get up a shot, or abuse a mismatch. 0.96 PPP. One of the best marks in the league, but there's a reason why teams don't post up a lot. They are not very efficient plays. Not in todays game. It has it's place, but that's not a viable gameplan. Once again, we had a top ten offense running with Cousins in the 1st half of the season. Perhaps if he lost the puppy fat, he'd be even better.

It's not about his individual stats but getting the opposing teams in foul trouble and causing the double/triple teams that free up his teammates. Personally I want to see shooting at the other positions and Cuz learning to feel his way out of the defensive attention.

I'm not going to blame Cousins for Corbin, Smart etc. The team has been subpar with subpar coaches. He has had incidents prior with Westphal and Karl, but again I think he's a temperamental kid that will do better in a winning environment. I could be wrong though

Either way, do you agree that he's not going anywhere unless there is a good deal that's on the table? That he has two years on his deal does it help if the fans turn against him so he demands out with a reputation that will hold down his value?

[FrodoBaggins]

The point remains he isn't going anywhere until there is a deal on the table that makes the team better. Chasing him out of town just leads to him forcing a trade at a discount or leaving in two years, which will hurt the franchise either way

Cousins can't be guarded one on one in the post and needs to be featured there a lot of the time with shooting around him IMO. Karl schemes should have been changed on defense if they weren't working

Regardless the man can barely walk the sidelines and can't be heard due to vocal limitations. Iske is the primary coach in games. You support that?

I'll say it again. Cousins was more efficient shooting a 3 then in the post. Does this mean I'm advocating he takes threes all game? No. But you can't throw it to him in the post every possession. It won't be pretty. Turnovers, shots blocked. Stagnant offense. Selfish play. You need to play him with offensive diversity. His drive or pull up game is crucial to him accumulating foul shots. The best way to play Cousins is how we used him in January.

Cousins is an overrated post player. Good here and there when the offense sticks, and you need to get up a shot, or abuse a mismatch. 0.96 PPP. One of the best marks in the league, but there's a reason why teams don't post up a lot. They are not very efficient plays. Not in todays game. It has it's place, but that's not a viable gameplan. Once again, we had a top ten offense running with Cousins in the 1st half of the season. Perhaps if he lost the puppy fat, he'd be even better.

It's not about his individual stats but getting the opposing teams in foul trouble and causing the double/triple teams that free up his teammates. Personally I want to see shooting at the other positions and Cuz learning to feel his way out of the defensive attention.

I'm not going to blame Cousins for Corbin, Smart etc. The team has been subpar with subpar coaches. He has had incidents prior with Westphal and Karl, but again I think he's a temperamental kid that will do better in a winning environment. I could be wrong though

Either way, do you agree that he's not going anywhere unless there is a good deal that's on the table? That he has two years on his deal does it help if the fans turn against him so he demands out with a reputation that will hold down his value?

That Lakers deal is looking better and better these days. I'm sure there's a good deal out there. It would be more of a win by subtraction for us. Atleast, it would have been had we still had George Karl. Either way, trading Cousins puts us on the right path. Must try our best to ship the big man off before the smoke clears and he leaves by himself

[FrodoBaggins]

BTW, I'd say he drew plenty of fouls this season.

[Kings2013]

I'll say it again. Cousins was more efficient shooting a 3 then in the post. Does this mean I'm advocating he takes threes all game? No. But you can't throw it to him in the post every possession. It won't be pretty. Turnovers, shots blocked. Stagnant offense. Selfish play. You need to play him with offensive diversity. His drive or pull up game is crucial to him accumulating foul shots. The best way to play Cousins is how we used him in January.

Cousins is an overrated post player. Good here and there when the offense sticks, and you need to get up a shot, or abuse a mismatch. 0.96 PPP. One of the best marks in the league, but there's a reason why teams don't post up a lot. They are not very efficient plays. Not in todays game. It has it's place, but that's not a viable gameplan. Once again, we had a top ten offense running with Cousins in the 1st half of the season. Perhaps if he lost the puppy fat, he'd be even better.

It's not about his individual stats but getting the opposing teams in foul trouble and causing the double/triple teams that free up his teammates. Personally I want to see shooting at the other positions and Cuz learning to feel his way out of the defensive attention.

I'm not going to blame Cousins for Corbin, Smart etc. The team has been subpar with subpar coaches. He has had incidents prior with Westphal and Karl, but again I think he's a temperamental kid that will do better in a winning environment. I could be wrong though

Either way, do you agree that he's not going anywhere unless there is a good deal that's on the table? That he has two years on his deal does it help if the fans turn against him so he demands out with a reputation that will hold down his value?

That Lakers deal is looking better and better these days. I'm sure there's a good deal out there. It would be more of a win by subtraction for us. Atleast, it would have been had we still had George Karl. Either way, trading Cousins puts us on the right path. Must try our best to ship the big man off before the smoke clears and he leaves by himself

Do you see why someone, like me, who believes he can be one of the most dominant players in the league, who is loyal to Sacramento, who is a talent the Kings might not recoup in the next 10 years, who I think can be reeled in under a coach he respects i.e Malone, who the team has had an atrocious record without the last three years, is not crazy about giving him away to the nearest bidder?

It's a circular thing, half seem to support him now. I think he'll still be around next year so it might help not to dislike the best player on the team to such an extent. We'll see how it goes if the Kings don't get a knock out deal

[Jkam31]

Haha clown talk bro

I like McHale, but let's get real. I can't see Cousins respecting anybody mentioned, or anybody yet to be mentioned, or anybody who won't get mentioned. I never seen any person demand so much respect when he's given zero to anybody else. He's a career malcontent, and a career loser. His behavior down the stretch was as bad as it's ever been, and six seasons in, I think we've seen his true colors by now. He's just a douchebag with the thinnest skin in all of pro sports. Enough is enough. The Cousins experiment failed, and I can't believe we're going to continue to go down this path.

Yep. It's a shame a hall of fame decorated 30 year coach like George Karl got sucked underneath Demarcus' ego. I've said it before and i'll say it again. Karl's performance this season was not nearly a true measure of his coaching, and despite it, he was but a symptom of the true problem, which is 6-11 and always slightly overweight. I wonder where we'd be had we allowed Karl to trade Cousins... Probably on a much more positive, bright future outlook than right now. Changing coaches won't really matter. If we keep Cousins, we're going to be here in this exact same situation this time next year, contemplating firing another coach.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[blind prophet]

Karl has done everything bar winning a championship as a coach

And not every coach wins a championship

Infact only 31 coaches have won championships

Dude has coached 185 playoff games. Sixth most of all time. Think about that. Yeah he has an average W/L % in the post season, but so do other great coaches. Karl hasn't had the best rosters. They are usually overrated because as soon as he leaves they all drop in production. Him leaving Denver was pretty evident. Hell, we he came to Denver mid season, He took a 17-25 Nuggets and finished 32-8. There are no questions about Karl's ability and reputation as a coach. He's a top 10 all time coach and a bonafide lock hall of famer. Has a 59% Win rate in the regular season. That's better than Adelman who we praise.

There are no doubts about Karl's coaching ability. The problem was always Cousins. It will always be Cousins, unless a miracle happens.. Which it won't.

With all due respect, those are his past accomplishments and I think we see a different coach today. But its all opinion.

I think Cousins is a reasonably good kid, who is a hot head who wants to win who was in a tough environment this year.

I think the way to find this out is to bring in another coach who isn't going to personally clash with him or possibly his style this year. Which is why, barring a unforeseeable offer that knocks the FO out, we're going to find out by next trade deadline if I'm right or not. Then at the next trade deadline I'd be more comfortable discussing whether or not the team can succeed with him. I can't do it with a coach the team quit on widespread by all star break

Common denominator

Why do all these coaches keep failing in Sacramento?

Querie: Perhaps it might be on our end, and not the coaches

Epiphany: Maybe it's Demarcus Cousins and the organization!

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Allen-grew-to-despise-Karl-1121700.php

Allen grew to 'despise' Karl
Bucks, coach at odds over past few years

NEW YORK -- Ray Allen's memories of his days in Milwaukee with George Karl are not fond ones.

"I started despising him," Allen said of Karl, who was fired as coach of the Bucks this summer. "We sat down a lot, but it always ended up being him talking and me listening."

"The only people I feel sorry for in this whole situation is the city of Milwaukee, because potentially the team can be moved if the senator sells the team," Allen said, referring to Bucks owner Herb Kohl. "Glenn (Robinson) gets traded, I get traded and Sam gets traded and the team goes downhill."

"If we were tired, he made us work harder. If we needed a day off, he made us practice. It always seemed like when something went wrong he'd bash us in the papers. He'd go at me, at Sam, at Glenn, and for a time there it was almost like -- from me to him as a coach-player relationship -- I started despising him.

"Every time something went wrong it was Ray's doing this, Ray's doing that," Allen said. "My family was walking around saying 'Look what George said about you now.' I got tired of that after a while, and my hatred started growing."



..........................................


http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/10/sports/kendall-gill-left-a-bad-reputation-and-depression-in-seattle.html

Kendall Gill Left a Bad Reputation, and Depression, in Seattle

Four nights and no sleep. Kendall Gill could not understand it. He had been bathed by the hazy blue light of his television night after night, surfing every channel, reading every magazine, staring out each window pane. And yet, nothing could ease his agitation, nothing could be parlayed into a lullaby.

So this was insomnia. He had never known this before, his mind revved up as if an accelerator were stuck. Only when he finally turned to a doctor did he discover the most unlikely diagnosis: he had symptoms of depression.

He couldn't believe it. He was young, wealthy and talented, grounded by a wonderful family and lucky enough to be in love with the first girl he ever kissed. All that and he was playing basketball for a Seattle team bound for 57 victories. But he was playing for Coach George Karl. Gill will tell you that Karl was the source of his sleepless nights during April 1995, that Karl was the reason he took a medical leave for five days that month.

''I was like, depression?'' Gill said, sitting in the lobby of a team hotel on Friday during the Nets' trip to Boston, quietly explaining the past. ''I wasn't crying. I wasn't feeling down and out. What I was, was furious. I felt that the next time I saw George, I was going to do something to him. That's how I felt. That's how furious I was.''

'Just when I thought I'd gotten out from that cloud of being labeled the guy who wasn't happy, George would push me right back underneath it. Have you seen 'Godfather III'? Al Pacino had paid all of his business partners off, then right after that he says, 'Just when I think I'm out, they pull me right back in.' ''

''It was awful in Seattle,'' Gill said. ''George is the only person in the world that I have a serious dislike for.''

[FrodoBaggins]

With all due respect, those are his past accomplishments and I think we see a different coach today. But its all opinion.

I think Cousins is a reasonably good kid, who is a hot head who wants to win who was in a tough environment this year.

I think the way to find this out is to bring in another coach who isn't going to personally clash with him or possibly his style this year. Which is why, barring a unforeseeable offer that knocks the FO out, we're going to find out by next trade deadline if I'm right or not. Then at the next trade deadline I'd be more comfortable discussing whether or not the team can succeed with him. I can't do it with a coach the team quit on widespread by all star break

Common denominator

Why do all these coaches keep failing in Sacramento?

Querie: Perhaps it might be on our end, and not the coaches

Epiphany: Maybe it's Demarcus Cousins and the organization!

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Allen-grew-to-despise-Karl-1121700.php

Allen grew to 'despise' Karl
Bucks, coach at odds over past few years

NEW YORK -- Ray Allen's memories of his days in Milwaukee with George Karl are not fond ones.

"I started despising him," Allen said of Karl, who was fired as coach of the Bucks this summer. "We sat down a lot, but it always ended up being him talking and me listening."

"The only people I feel sorry for in this whole situation is the city of Milwaukee, because potentially the team can be moved if the senator sells the team," Allen said, referring to Bucks owner Herb Kohl. "Glenn (Robinson) gets traded, I get traded and Sam gets traded and the team goes downhill."

"If we were tired, he made us work harder. If we needed a day off, he made us practice. It always seemed like when something went wrong he'd bash us in the papers. He'd go at me, at Sam, at Glenn, and for a time there it was almost like -- from me to him as a coach-player relationship -- I started despising him.

"Every time something went wrong it was Ray's doing this, Ray's doing that," Allen said. "My family was walking around saying 'Look what George said about you now.' I got tired of that after a while, and my hatred started growing."



..........................................


http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/10/sports/kendall-gill-left-a-bad-reputation-and-depression-in-seattle.html

Kendall Gill Left a Bad Reputation, and Depression, in Seattle

Four nights and no sleep. Kendall Gill could not understand it. He had been bathed by the hazy blue light of his television night after night, surfing every channel, reading every magazine, staring out each window pane. And yet, nothing could ease his agitation, nothing could be parlayed into a lullaby.

So this was insomnia. He had never known this before, his mind revved up as if an accelerator were stuck. Only when he finally turned to a doctor did he discover the most unlikely diagnosis: he had symptoms of depression.

He couldn't believe it. He was young, wealthy and talented, grounded by a wonderful family and lucky enough to be in love with the first girl he ever kissed. All that and he was playing basketball for a Seattle team bound for 57 victories. But he was playing for Coach George Karl. Gill will tell you that Karl was the source of his sleepless nights during April 1995, that Karl was the reason he took a medical leave for five days that month.

''I was like, depression?'' Gill said, sitting in the lobby of a team hotel on Friday during the Nets' trip to Boston, quietly explaining the past. ''I wasn't crying. I wasn't feeling down and out. What I was, was furious. I felt that the next time I saw George, I was going to do something to him. That's how I felt. That's how furious I was.''

'Just when I thought I'd gotten out from that cloud of being labeled the guy who wasn't happy, George would push me right back underneath it. Have you seen 'Godfather III'? Al Pacino had paid all of his business partners off, then right after that he says, 'Just when I think I'm out, they pull me right back in.' ''

''It was awful in Seattle,'' Gill said. ''George is the only person in the world that I have a serious dislike for.''

Are NBA players babies? Soft as charmin. I'll shut you down with one simple image;



This reality where somehow George Karl isn't a good coach, doesn't exist. He's stubborn, and perhaps we should have done things his way from the start. He was ahead of the eight ball with trading Cousins, because mark my words, we'll have to face this reality eventually. He's the perpetual anchor to this franchise. We won't begin a renaissance until that weight is shed.

And on that day, I'm going to enjoy telling you "I told you so"

And even if I'm wrong, I still win. Because this is about the Kings. Not Demarcus Cousins.

[Wolfay]

I like McHale, but let's get real. I can't see Cousins respecting anybody mentioned, or anybody yet to be mentioned, or anybody who won't get mentioned. I never seen any person demand so much respect when he's given zero to anybody else. He's a career malcontent, and a career loser. His behavior down the stretch was as bad as it's ever been, and six seasons in, I think we've seen his true colors by now. He's just a douchebag with the thinnest skin in all of pro sports. Enough is enough. The Cousins experiment failed, and I can't believe we're going to continue to go down this path.

He played for a coach who put feelers out on him last summer who then tried to utilize him incorrectly - pace and perimeter dribble drive stuff - who the team quit on. Can't make a determination on that until I see another coach in here who actually tries to form a relationship with him and game plan for him, IMO

We will go down the path as long as there isn't a viable deal on the table that makes us a better team, on the court, regardless of who likes his disposition or not (doesn't bother me personally). Vlade has supported him as well as Vivek and I can't imagine them wanting to deal one of the best bugs at a discount. I don't think that deal will come, because of what your complaining about

All this is to say that I'd like to see him with another coach, and a lot of the fanbase feels the same

How many more coaches? Your argument might have merit if this was his rookie season, or even his second or third, but we're six seasons in, and he's achieved squat with several coaches. He's a known commodity now. EVEN if he does do a 180 next season, it shows he did this crap on purpose just to get his way. Sacrificed six seasons of OUR TIME, OUR MONEY, to get what he wants. Entitlement and narcissism like that get under my skin.

And I don't care about what kind of deal comes along. It's addition by means of subtraction at this point. You don't wait to get rid of your totaled 1985 Ford Thunderbird until the right deal comes along. It's junk, so you get rid of it when any deal comes, or no deal comes.

[FrodoBaggins]

The problem for me is... At this point, I cannot envision a successful team with Demarcus leading the way. I honestly can't. If the planets align and everything that could possibly go right does such, the best I see is only 45-50 wins. And that'll be a miracle in of itself.

I cannot wait when the day comes that we trade him.

[Kings2013]

The problem for me is... At this point, I cannot envision a successful team with Demarcus leading the way. I honestly can't. If the planets align and everything that could possibly go right does such, the best I see is only 45-50 wins. And that'll be a miracle in of itself.

I cannot wait when the day comes that we trade him.

The team was 8-37 over the last three seasons without him a couple of weeks ago (last I checked), so I can imagine the team being complete balls without him, if the perfect deal doesn't come along

I think there is a lot of focus on him and not the rest of the roster. I don't really see it as his personal job to lead us, he's only one piece.

[FrodoBaggins]

The problem for me is... At this point, I cannot envision a successful team with Demarcus leading the way. I honestly can't. If the planets align and everything that could possibly go right does such, the best I see is only 45-50 wins. And that'll be a miracle in of itself.

I cannot wait when the day comes that we trade him.

The team was 8-37 over the last three seasons without him a couple of weeks ago (last I checked), so I can imagine the team being complete balls without him, if the perfect deal doesn't come along

I think there is a lot of focus on him and not the rest of the roster. I don't really see it as his personal job to lead us, he's only one piece.

I know all about the stats

Problem is, they're still garbage with him

[Kings2013]

The problem for me is... At this point, I cannot envision a successful team with Demarcus leading the way. I honestly can't. If the planets align and everything that could possibly go right does such, the best I see is only 45-50 wins. And that'll be a miracle in of itself.

I cannot wait when the day comes that we trade him.

The team was 8-37 over the last three seasons without him a couple of weeks ago (last I checked), so I can imagine the team being complete balls without him, if the perfect deal doesn't come along

I think there is a lot of focus on him and not the rest of the roster. I don't really see it as his personal job to lead us, he's only one piece.

I know all about the stats

Problem is, they're still garbage with him

He's been an all star for two years. One for the Malone/Corbin saga, another for the team quitting on Karl. So I'd like to see another year with more stability if I can (or even a half). He has two years left on his deal

[FrodoBaggins]

The team was 8-37 over the last three seasons without him a couple of weeks ago (last I checked), so I can imagine the team being complete balls without him, if the perfect deal doesn't come along

I think there is a lot of focus on him and not the rest of the roster. I don't really see it as his personal job to lead us, he's only one piece.

I know all about the stats

Problem is, they're still garbage with him

He's been an all star for two years. One for the Malone/Corbin saga, another for the team quitting on Karl. So I'd like to see another year with more stability if I can (or even a half). He has two years left on his deal

We'd better hope so. Because the odds are telling me we are going to be in the same exact situation this time next year. Let's hope for a DMC miracle. Because 6 years have told me otherwise.

[2Mas]

Really now?

What has Karl won?

Tell me the fellas who don't get along with Pop or Adleman?

Thannnk you.

Yup. Karl used to be aggressive, loud. This Karl isn't the same one from 20 years ago. People say player just keep collecting them checks? Well Karl is the leader of that group as a group.

Karl is good at taking a bunch of not really talented team player underdogs making them better. That is his MO. If it's not his player style, then it don't work.

& Really? If your gonna say MELO & LAWSON are loosers, then Karl is too because they've been together mad long lol.

I'd rather take the talent & try to harness it (as difficult as he is), then a nice, playing hard, underdog team, that's gonna be tops a semi's treadmill team.

I love McHale (Celtic nation), don't think he's a great coach though. But I like the idea of Ewing.

If Sac actually had a direction, a clear plan. Something on board to create some structure in the FO, itd help the players. I'm hoping Vlade leads that. Hire a good coach with an idea. & Build with that. Starting with Demarcus. & I personally hope Rondo & WCS.

[benchmobbin02]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpQTCUAQHVw&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]