Rondo

[SacKingZZZ]

True. Honestly beyond lack of interest there is certainly a lack of ability defensively on Rondo's part as well.

These guys aren't dumb, they know when they are making an impossible climb and last year was that. There was no winning regardless of commitment because it was unlikely to overcome failed coaching logic of that magnitude. Or a failed roster for that logic depending on how you look at it. Last year was a textbook case of a coach and GM in an ideological tug of war. You can't win that way.

[2Mas]

True. Honestly beyond lack of interest there is certainly a lack of ability defensively on Rondo's part as well.

These guys aren't dumb, they know when they are making an impossible climb and last year was that. There was no winning regardless of commitment because it was unlikely to overcome failed coaching logic of that magnitude. Or a failed roster for that logic depending on how you look at it. Last year was a textbook case of a coach and GM in an ideological tug of war. You can't win that way.

Agree with this. No doubt Rondo was terrible on defense, but I think it was exaggerated. I think with this team starting to have a real direction, the defense will be improved. I don't think he's gonna be a great defender or anything, but I think the team as a whole will be better on the defensive end.

Really don't see a better option than Rondo at this point? Dunn will be gone by 8, no doubt in my mind. You wanna bring in Jeremy Lin? To me not a good idea.

Maybe Delladova? Gonna have to overpay though. The defense is there for sure, he's solid. I like him, but to me he's a 3rd guard off the bench with his energy & whatnot. Not really a starter on a contending team. On Cleveland he's fine cause LBJ handles the ball so much, but if Sac's going with Delly, Ben, Gay lol those handles are very iffy.

As a from a far fan of the Kings, i'm hoping --
1. Jaylen Brown falls to you at 8. Think he goes 4, 7 or to Sac.
2. Marvin Williams signs to a decent deal. Doubt this (but would be an awesome fit).
3. Resign - Rondo, Curry, Acy.
4. Trade Belli to a team with cap.

Rondo - Collison - pg Felder?!
McLemore - Curry
Gay - Brown - Butler
WCS - Williams - Casspi
Cousins - Koufos - Acy

This to me is a playoff team. Last year was a hot mess. I don't think this team should be taken lightly. With a direction & an the organization actually coming together, this could fit nicely together.

[SacKingZZZ]

I can't see the Kings coming in with the same basic roster next year. I doubt the coach is on board with that.

It's all about fit and I'm not sure about Rondo fitting with Joerger's style. Depending on what that might be of course, haha.

[blind prophet]

Good news on the potential Rondo front.

The Knicks got rose. So that's one less potential financial competitor.

So there will be less leverage potentially from his camp, also likely meaning possibly less we may have to pay to retain him.

[SacKingZZZ]

That's either good or bad, depending on if you could have seen that as a nice quick and easy cutting of the ties. I hope the Kings have more planned than just re-signing someone because, "Oh well, better than nothing". Does it fit your vision? What kind of team are you trying to be?

[blind prophet]

That's either good or bad, depending on if you could have seen that as a nice quick and easy cutting of the ties. I hope the Kings have more planned than just re-signing someone because, "Oh well, better than nothing". Does it fit your vision? What kind of team are you trying to be?

True, I'd think Joerger would be pretty candid about if he thought it would fit.

[GimmeDat]

Bulls had a meeting with Rondo. Would he make our team better? Would he be a tank commander? What's your feelings based on his time so far with the Kings.

[blind prophet]

Bulls had a meeting with Rondo. Would he make our team better? Would he be a tank commander? What's your feelings based on his time so far with the Kings.

His defense is not fairly gauged right now, but its slipped. How bad is it? I'm not sure but Karl's gimmick D made him look much worse than he probably is.

You want Rondo to have the ball in his hands as much as possible. So you need good movement without the ball, bigs need to be able to run the floor because he'll find you.

Will help if you have a big with a decent mid range jumper if Rondo penetrates and kicks once the help comes.

He runs the court like a general, people need to follow him.

You do all that, trust him and let him call most of the action he's gonna give you 10 assist + every night.

He boards well for a guard too.

Mid range jumper and top of key area is gonna be bad percentages, corner 3 is fine.

The question should be, can you guys handle Rondo and do the things he needs you too?

[GimmeDat]

Bulls had a meeting with Rondo. Would he make our team better? Would he be a tank commander? What's your feelings based on his time so far with the Kings.

His defense is not fairly gauged right now, but its slipped. How bad is it? I'm not sure but Karl's gimmick D made him look much worse than he probably is.

You want Rondo to have the ball in his hands as much as possible. So you need good movement without the ball, bigs need to be able to run the floor because he'll find you.

Will help if you have a big with a decent mid range jumper if Rondo penetrates and kicks once the help comes.

He runs the court like a general, people need to follow him.

You do all that, trust him and let him call most of the action he's gonna give you 10 assist + every night.

He boards well for a guard too.

Mid range jumper and top of key area is gonna be bad percentages, corner 3 is fine.

The question should be, can you guys handle Rondo and do the things he needs you too?

We've got good rollers and shooters so that should be a good fit. We also have a lot of guys that will want the ball in their hands - Butler, Valentine, Grant, Mirotic to an extent, so in that sense, I think it's a bad fit.

I don't think he'd fit well with Butler, both not great shooters and the possible power struggle.

Also, Hoiberg's a fresh HC, and he had trouble containing all the vets last year. I feel like Rondo will walk over him a bit, much how Butler did last season.

[blind prophet]

Bulls had a meeting with Rondo. Would he make our team better? Would he be a tank commander? What's your feelings based on his time so far with the Kings.

His defense is not fairly gauged right now, but its slipped. How bad is it? I'm not sure but Karl's gimmick D made him look much worse than he probably is.

You want Rondo to have the ball in his hands as much as possible. So you need good movement without the ball, bigs need to be able to run the floor because he'll find you.

Will help if you have a big with a decent mid range jumper if Rondo penetrates and kicks once the help comes.

He runs the court like a general, people need to follow him.

You do all that, trust him and let him call most of the action he's gonna give you 10 assist + every night.

He boards well for a guard too.

Mid range jumper and top of key area is gonna be bad percentages, corner 3 is fine.

The question should be, can you guys handle Rondo and do the things he needs you too?

We've got good rollers and shooters so that should be a good fit. We also have a lot of guys that will want the ball in their hands - Butler, Valentine, Grant, Mirotic to an extent, so in that sense, I think it's a bad fit.

I don't think he'd fit well with Butler, both not great shooters and the possible power struggle.

Also, Hoiberg's a fresh HC, and he had trouble containing all the vets last year. I feel like Rondo will walk over him a bit, much how Butler did last season.

If Rondo doesn't have the ball in hands running the show nearly every time down the floor except on fast breaks its a bad fit. If you've got some players who can score on their own and give him some time to run an offense first it could work, but not if you have guys who'd like to do too much more than that.

Like we have Rudy here, sometimes you could see a fit issue with Rondo when Rudy got too aggressive. But when nothing was there and it went to Rudy later in the clock it worked just fine.

There has to be a sort of understanding there.

He needs some shooting with him on the floor, doesn't have to be a lethal guy, but someone you have to respect and will nail a shot if left open.

I don't think its a problem to have Rondo "call the shots", that's one of the reasons you'd want him. He'd probably get along with a fresh coach just fine if he lets him be "Rondo".

[SacKingZZZ]

Rondo could be a good gamble for the Bulls. Rondo isn't nearly as ball dominant and you would think. He and another ball handler would be just fine. For a guard that handles a teams offense he doesn't necessarily cut off the abilities of other ball handlers in the process. Rudy Gay's game did drop, but his game didn't disappear or anything. He was coming off a few career type years so the comparison can be somewhat skewed.

There is one great reason for the Bulls to have interest in Rondo: Denzel Valentine. Valentine reminds me a ton of Rondo in the way he passes because both are very unselfish that way. Rondo wasn't my first choice for a Kings PG for a variety of reasons but he's not as bad as someone like say Deron Williams because Rondo doesn't look to pass at the end of the clock and neither does Valentine. They pass at the start and see how things develop.

[KF10]

Rondo is a freelance PG. One of the major reasons why Rondo failed hard in Dallas because Rick Carlisle always breathes down on his PG's neck with all of the play calling he does. Rondo is at his best when he read and react on the court with little intervention of the coach. So, basically, Rondo & Hoiberg needs to be on the same page and trust one another with their style and input of the game. Rondo was one of the few players on the Kings roster who was pro-Karl because Karl trusted Rondo enough to do his thing on the court.

For me personally, I don't mind bringing Rondo back because Cousins respect the hell out of Rondo. Also, according to Nancy Lieberman (one of the assistant coaches here), starting 20:45 here: http://www1.play.it/audio/brown-and-scoop/kings-assistant-coach-hall-of-famer-nancy-lieberman/ Nancy gave Rondo absolute raving reviews about the guy (good interview overall).

[blind prophet]

If I had to put a "max threshold" I'd pay with Vivek's money, 14ish per for about 3 years would be my top offer. I'd start less than that, maybe 12.5 per.

I think Vlade is making the proper call of saying "If the money's right". And a lot of that is we have other pressing needs we still have to pay for.

[pillwenney]

For being ball dominant Rondo isn't really a ball movement killer IMO. His spot 3 point shot is better, but yes, defenses let him shoot all night. That corner 3 is where it's at for him.

His biggest weakness by far was his defense, but it's almost hard to judge any King last year with the abomination of a system Karl put out there. He will most likely never be a good defender, but I don't think he's as bad as he looked last year. Part of that was the system I'm sure.

I think he'd be a great pickup for a team like the Nets. Lopez is a better pick and roll player than Cuz so there is a guaranteed go to play right there.

Right now the Nets need creators and talent so I'd think Rondo would be a much better option than Lin who is more of a role player/scorer type. Rondo can run your offense.

Lin would be a better option for the Kings, but if the Kings didn't have Cousins and Gay I would take Rondo all day over Lin straight up.

Unless Karl's system was "Let the opposing PG completely blow by you," I'm thinking Rondo deserves the lion's share of the blame there.

[pillwenney]

There doesn't appear to be much interest from the Kings in retaining Rondo.

I have it on good authority that Joerger generally likes guards that have more of an all-around game than ones that are purely pass-first, so that would explain that, assuming he has some solid front office input.

Otherwise, at this point, he's definitely the best FA PG available. Tempting to just re-sign him.

[SacKingZZZ]

For being ball dominant Rondo isn't really a ball movement killer IMO. His spot 3 point shot is better, but yes, defenses let him shoot all night. That corner 3 is where it's at for him.

His biggest weakness by far was his defense, but it's almost hard to judge any King last year with the abomination of a system Karl put out there. He will most likely never be a good defender, but I don't think he's as bad as he looked last year. Part of that was the system I'm sure.

I think he'd be a great pickup for a team like the Nets. Lopez is a better pick and roll player than Cuz so there is a guaranteed go to play right there.

Right now the Nets need creators and talent so I'd think Rondo would be a much better option than Lin who is more of a role player/scorer type. Rondo can run your offense.

Lin would be a better option for the Kings, but if the Kings didn't have Cousins and Gay I would take Rondo all day over Lin straight up.

Unless Karl's system was "Let the opposing PG completely blow by you," I'm thinking Rondo deserves the lion's share of the blame there.

No doubt, but even the semi-decent defenders looked below average or worse. That's usually a sign that players aren't buying in or it's just not working.

[SacKingZZZ]

There doesn't appear to be much interest from the Kings in retaining Rondo.

I have it on good authority that Joerger generally likes guards that have more of an all-around game than ones that are purely pass-first, so that would explain that, assuming he has some solid front office input.

Otherwise, at this point, he's definitely the best FA PG available. Tempting to just re-sign him.

My question is what good would re-signing him do unless Cuz wouldn't have it any other way? If he doesn't work for Jeorger it's just a pain to fit him into the rotation and if he didn't build any value as a FA this year after the excellent individual season he had with complete free reign under Karl, there's no hope at looking at him as an asset. If the Kings signed him to anything more than a year deal, he'll be with the Kings most likely for the tenure. If they sign him to a year deal then they are in the same spot as last year, Rondo is here to showcase again, and this time is even more desperate to make a point to the league. He can't make a point on defense most likely so once again, what does it help the Kings?

Talent wise it's insane how far above he is some big money signings this summer, but teams are clearly not valuing that pass first PG with limited defense and shooting right now.

[pillwenney]

At this point, unless some unforeseen trade happens, any option is going to be a stopgap. I think the feeling others have (me too at different times of the day) is that he's probably the best stop gap out there.

But at the same time, yeah if the fit is poor, it may not be ideal. I don't know. I waffle a lot on this, but none of it super consequential anyway since any solution will be short term.

[blind prophet]

Yeah at 14 per about the most I'd of paid, but they got a partial next year. I have a feeling we may regret not doing something similar with him.

[GimmeDat]

Any further thoughts now that we've signed him? Looks like the Bulls are trying to 'win-now' this season, which has surprised some.

Some thoughts of note -

- Hoiberg has a pretty freelance offense.. Rondo should fit well in that sense.
- Butler likes the ball in his hands creating, at least some of the possessions. Will Rondo be cool/effective with that?
- Will he return to being a positive defender now that he's on a pretty competitive team again?