Postseason thoughts/ramblings

[ICMTM]

For the rate Bigs go Mikki Moore is a steal! I think the Kings did okay, but the only issue I have is from the GM's perspective of which direction is this team going? If we are getting back in the mix then Kevin/Spencer/insert a young here needs to be traded. If we are going young then Artest and Miller need to go. I'd like to see a direction come from the Kings front office on where this team is going.

[Smills91]

For the rate Bigs go Mikki Moore is a steal! I think the Kings did okay, but the only issue I have is from the GM's perspective of which direction is this team going? If we are getting back in the mix then Kevin/Spencer/insert a young here needs to be traded. If we are going young then Artest and Miller need to go. I'd like to see a direction come from the Kings front office on where this team is going.

You're right we're in a position to go either way honestly. However, I think that direction will be determined when the proverbial 'right' offer comes along.

I don't see Geoff picking a direction for the sake of picking a direction at this point. I think if the right offer comes his way(like the Richmond/C-Webb swap years ago) then it'll present itself and he'll commit to that direction. If a Owens for Richmond deal presents itself I see Geoff biting on that.

I don't think he wants to dilute the talent he has, because AS IS this team if it had been healthy very well may have snuck into that 8th seed(which any other season would have been a 5-6 seed).

[andaaaay]

I don't think this team, even healthy, would've finished in the playoffs. At best I could see them maybe winning 45 games if healthy but definitely not 50+.

Yeah it seems uncertain about how the kings are approaching rebuilding. I think that this offseason is going to clear up some questions about where this team is going.

Ideally in a perfect kings world this would be my offseason....

Win the lottery draft Rose
Dont resign Beno
Trade Artest for a high-mid draft pick, then pick Arthur
K9 retires!
Keep Miller/Moore/Reef bcuz their good mentors for the young bigs, then when their contracts expire we'll have a boat load of cash to play in the FA market. Or great trade bait with all these expirings.

Rose
Martin
Garcia
Arthur
Hawes


This lineup looks so beautiful haha

[Smills91]

I don't think this team, even healthy, would've finished in the playoffs. At best I could see them maybe winning 45 games if healthy but definitely not 50+.

Yeah it seems uncertain about how the kings are approaching rebuilding. I think that this offseason is going to clear up some questions about where this team is going.

Ideally in a perfect kings world this would be my offseason....

Win the lottery draft Rose
Dont resign Beno
Trade Artest for a high-mid draft pick, then pick Arthur
K9 retires!
Keep Miller/Moore/Reef bcuz their good mentors for the young bigs, then when their contracts expire we'll have a boat load of cash to play in the FA market. Or great trade bait with all these expirings.

Rose
Martin
Garcia
Arthur
Hawes


This lineup looks so beautiful haha

Kings had Martin out 17 games and Artest out 24 games and many of those games overlapped.

When Artest played the Kings had a +.500 winning percentage. If you could extrapolate that percentage then the Kings would be right there with the Warriors/Nuggets.

Also factor in the number of CLOSE games the Kings lost this season that could have gone the other way perhaps had the Kings had a slightly better record late in the season and the playoffs not being so far-fetched so early.

I think they'd been right there with those teams to make the playoffs. But I digress.

[andaaaay]

The kings were inconsistent all yr long and thats the mark of a bad team first of all. Also you can never factor in those close games that we "should have won" because there are a bunch of games we should have lost too. I'm a huge kings fan, but to say that this team as built could win 50 games is just plain biased. I said that I could see tham at best 45 wins (and thats being really nice) if healthy. But this team that was almost last in assists and gave up over 104ppg, you think would win more than 50 gms? hmm i dunno. They need to play some D first, then we can start talking about playoffs.

[ICMTM]

I agree Smills that Petrie isn't going to jump at a deal for the sake of jumping at a deal, but with Davis, Brand, and some others in situations I think there are deals that look promising I'm my eyes and going veteran will be the way to go.

[SacKingZZZ]

-= original quote snipped =-



Kings had Martin out 17 games and Artest out 24 games and many of those games overlapped.

When Artest played the Kings had a +.500 winning percentage. If you could extrapolate that percentage then the Kings would be right there with the Warriors/Nuggets.

Also factor in the number of CLOSE games the Kings lost this season that could have gone the other way perhaps had the Kings had a slightly better record late in the season and the playoffs not being so far-fetched so early.

I think they'd been right there with those teams to make the playoffs. But I digress.

I remember hearing a few years ago about how the 8th seed wasn't worth having anyway. Might as well get a lotto pick and rebuild. Now the 8th seed is hunky dory!? Nah, when you have a veteren team like we do, without much improvement coming internially in short amount of time or personnel wise, the 8th seed isn't a reasonable goal IMO.

[SacKingZZZ]

Could be. Problem is we kind of stuffed the young players we have that maybe could make a trade like that possible on the bench in a year in which we could have used the showcasing more than ever. I might be OK with making a deal for Brand, Baron probably not. I don't think he'd get the team we have over any humps.

Rejoining Brand/Miller/Artest together could be interesting for sure. Especially if the key player going the other way is Kevin Martin. We have John Salmons to pick up some of that slack. Still, I'd rather rebuild as I think it's the easiest way to go and the best situation to be in at this time.

[Ballings7]

- Rondo just owning Bibby so far... like with us, Mike has to be more balanced offensively. But, aside from the bunch of games when he came back with us this season, he hasn't been playing a balanced offensive game. Has to be able to be effective when his shot is off. Rondo's clearly improved as a jumpshooter (mid-range), and will only get better there.

- Spurs continuing to step up the level of play in the post-season, and continue to have the edge over Phoenix. Likely are going to knock them out of the playoffs, again. I think they will.

- Duncan with another cycle of majority coasting in the regular season, and then shifting into another gear come playoffs. Declining? Not yet, and not for a little while more, too.

- Suns continue to be an inconsistent at best defensive team. Continue to lack depth. Continue to not have playoff-level defense. With the Shaq trade, their group of shooters has continued to lessen in strength and depth. Getting worse than before the Shaq trade.

- Jazz continue to be fun to watch, and are doing what they're supposed to do against Houston. Playing good basketball. Will be interesting to see how well they do defensively against the good offensive teams, though.

- Surprised Dallas hasn't done better against the Hornets. They have to get Josh Howard going more, and he has to play like the player he's been known as. Dallas has to make defensive adjustments and play with more energy. Glad to see my boy Brandon Bass has played strong though, especially against his old team.

- Chris Paul's been just fantastic so far, impressive... happy to see Peja played quite well in G2. Bonzi's been big for them with their depth, and bringing a different dimension.

- Philly's win over Detroit was really cool, but I expect Detroit to win in 5. Not sure the remaining games will be easy, though.

- Dwight Howard with back to back 20+/20 games is just so amazing... even if against a weak rebounding and interior defensive Toronto squad. Too bad I wasn't able to see much of those games. Orlando's just better overall, even with their own size lackings outside of Dwight, that doesn't matter as much against Toronto.

- Spurs/Suns G1 was one of the best games I've ever seen in my life.

[Ballings7]

How about those Suns and Spurs?

Just an incredibly ideal, excellent game by the San Antonio Spurs tonight

[BMiller52]

How about those Suns and Spurs?

Just an incredibly ideal, excellent game by the San Antonio Spurs tonight

I didn't watch the whole game but SA has won that series the last few years because D'antoni is a horrible coach. It's pretty obvious by now but the guy is a moron. Pop is a genius and D'antoni is an idiot. I mean why the hell are you switching the pick&roll and putting Shaq on Parker? What the hell is that? Why don't they play zone D so Shaq stops getting exposed and can stay in the paint? Why don't they put their best 3 point shooters out on the floor, because they can't score anymore with Shaq out there and Hill/Diaw at SF. They only have 2 3 point shooters(Nash/Bell) and Bell has choked away this whole series by passing up open 3 pointers. The only guy who has consistently shown up is Stoudemire, everyone else on the Suns is old and sucks. It's funny that 3 years ago they were a young run and gun team who could've been good for many more years. Now they traded for Shaq when he's past his prime, they let Joe Johnson leave for freaking Diaw and a 15th pick and a pick they sold(which turned out to be Rondo), Marion is gone, they tried way too hard to get rid of Kurt Thomas(F'ING STUPID) and lost picks in that process, the Suns had a great thing going and **** it up big time. What a joke of an organization.

Oh and that selling picks crap has REALLY screwed them over. Selling Deng to the Bulls, selling Rondo to the Celtics, selling Nate Rob to the Knicks(he actually might be good on Phoenix though because he plays the way they use to play), that's just really screwed them over. They got cheap because they wouldn't keep Joe Johnson, Deng, or Rondo. That team would be ridiculously good with Amare for the future. Now they've wasted Nash's entire prime too and Kerr just made another mistake by trading for Shaq. I liked the Suns before but now I'm just thinking they're really **** stupid.

Phoenix isn't even making the playoffs next year, maybe we can take their spot

[SacKingZZZ]

So is Kerr an idiot yet?

[BMiller52]

So is Kerr an idiot yet?

He's been an idiot since he got the job

[Ballings7]

Just about. But of course, they still wouldn't of done much better with Marion.

At best, next season, I think it'll be mixed results again for them. Especially with Shaq.

[BMiller52]

Just about. But of course, they still wouldn't of done much better with Marion.

At best, next season, I think it'll be mixed results again for them. Especially with Shaq.

I think they would've done better with Marion though. Last year without Amare and Diaw and someone else for a game, they took the series to 6 games. Marion spaced the floor better, gave them another 3 point shooter, and gave them someone who could defend Parker. He also gave them a lot of hustle plays Shaq doesn't and he could run the floor. They might not win with Marion+Hill(and they should've kept Kurt Thomas IMO) but they atleast win 2-3 games like last year.

I think what really hurt them is giving away all those draft picks. They gave away picks to ditch Kurt Thomas too and that's going to come back to hurt them. They gave away Rondo and Nate Robinson, and Deng too. Rondo could've really helped them because he's able to stop small and quick PGs like Parker. They could've used Deng because they don't have any other scorers besides STAT now, nobody who can actually get their own shot(outside of Nash, but he has to make the plays for the whole team). Nate Robinson(or they could've spent that pick on a rebounder like David Lee instead) could've given them a sparkplug off the bench. All of those young guys would've really helped them IMO. They should've never let Joe Johnson get away either, he was a good player. He kept the floor spaced well, gave them a ball handler besides Nash, and he's a really good defender. The guy is a better ISO type of guy than anyone on that team. Okay guys, look at this line up and tell me it's not 1million times better than what they have now:

Nash/Rondo
Johnson/Barbosa
Deng/whoever
Marion/Lee
Stoudemire/Thomas

what they have now:

Nash/Barbosa
Bell/Giricek
Hill/Diaw
Amare/Diaw
Shaq/Skinner

Their current team is 1million years old, slow, can't hit 3s(which is what their whole team was based on back in 05 when they started), their spacing sucks, they can't rebound, they can't defend, and their pick&roll is a lot less effective with Shaq and Hill clogging the paint(well Hill is more like the FT line area), and Bell is playing like garbage(scared to shoot, overrated on D).

The one I posted has a good back up for Nash who is a REAL POINT GUARD, they have a real ISO player in Joe who can take pressure off Nash, post up smaller guards if a team like SA puts a bigger player like Bowen on Nash, and spaces the floor better. Rondo is not only a real PG but he also does a great job guarding the PGs like Parker which few players can do. He's pass 1st instead of a shot happy no-D chucker like Barbosa. They have Lee to back up Marion on the boards and Lee can also run with them. Keeping Marion keeps the floor spaced and gives them a guy who can switch off on Parker and give him a lot of problems. Deng is a great 1 on 1 scorer which they could use right about now and has a good post up game(better than that scrub Diaw). Stoudemire stays at the 5 but keeping Kurt gives them a guy who can come in and play next to Amare because he's a good post defender.

To hell with Steve Kerr and also Colangelo, they should've hired me to be the GM of that team. I would've done a much better job

Next year they probably don't even make the playoffs.

[pillwenney]

I really still don't think the Shaq trade was as bad as it probably looks right now. At the very least, I think it worked out better than some would think.

I definitely agree that part of their problem is a lack of outside shooting, but I think part of that is having Hill instead of another shooter in the lineup. Heck, they don't even really use Hill for his PG skills anyway, so his talent is a little wasted there.

But I too really don't think they would be a whole lot better with Marion. The Spurs are just playing out of their mind right now.

[Ballings7]

That's been a new issue for them this season: 3PT shooting.

It's to a lesser degree than other areas, but it's been consistently present this season.

Their strength of shooters has decreased bit by bit since 2006. Just go compare rosters, and most recently, with how their shooters played during the season.

It became most noticable before the Shaq trade, and they did need to get another shooter then, and it became even moreso post-Shaq trade. Because they lost Marion, on top of already needing another shooter anyways. Bell and Barbosa, from what I gathered, weren't as consistent in the 1st half of the season, as in the past. Suns fans also indicated both of those things. Eventually, not sure Giricek was the kind of shooter they expected to get, but he was something at least.

They only have Bell, Nash, Barbosa, Giricek as shooters now... and only two in the starting line-up. And really, Nash is more of a creation shooter than a spot-up shooter. Giricek is a decent threat at best, but he's not the level of shooter of guys they had in the past.

2007 they still had significant shooting, but the suttle dip in the cast of shooters from 2005 and 2006 was there.

Their scoring runs aren't like they used to be, because of the lessened shooting ability, along with losing Marion's finishing ability. Not as explosive an offensive team.

Spurs defense also had something to do with it, in the series.

[Smills91]

I don't think Kerr's gamble was all that ill-conceived really. The Suns window WITH Nash is CLOSING and closing fast. I don't think Marion makes a huge difference. At least they TRIED something different overall , I mean they'd probably be losing 3-0 vs. the Spurs WITH Marion anyways.

Now the team that looks 100% ridiculous right now is the team with an AGING Iverson/Camby. If it's true that Kleiza/Najera/1st was all it would have taken to get Ron Artest....then the Nuggets brass has to go down with one of the ALL-TIME blunders known to man.

If they had Ron, they could shut Kobe down and focus the defense on their rest of team. They'd probably be winning this series if they had Ron. They look like absolute FOOLS to me.

[pillwenney]

I don't think Kerr's gamble was all that ill-conceived really. The Suns window WITH Nash is CLOSING and closing fast. I don't think Marion makes a huge difference. At least they TRIED something different overall , I mean they'd probably be losing 3-0 vs. the Spurs WITH Marion anyways.

Now the team that looks 100% ridiculous right now is the team with an AGING Iverson/Camby. If it's true that Kleiza/Najera/1st was all it would have taken to get Ron Artest....then the Nuggets brass has to go down with one of the ALL-TIME blunders known to man.

If they had Ron, they could shut Kobe down and focus the defense on their rest of team. They'd probably be winning this series if they had Ron. They look like absolute FOOLS to me.

QFT.

[Ballings7]

Yeah, I was surprised they didn't pull the trigger for Ron, he may not of made them contenders/deep into the playoffs, but certainly better with what he brings on both sides of the court. Denver would of played a respectable-tougher series against the Lakers.

I'm glad Ron didn't end up going there, though.

I don't think Kerr's gamble was all that ill-conceived really. The Suns window WITH Nash is CLOSING and closing fast. I don't think Marion makes a huge difference. At least they TRIED something different overall , I mean they'd probably be losing 3-0 vs. the Spurs WITH Marion anyways.

Relatively agree. They're still unbalanced, lacking depth, lacking more expanded coaching, with Shaq or Marion.