Official 2008 Draft Night Thread...the future is now.

[pillwenney]

You just have to remember that value>>>>fit in most cases. That's the bottom line. You can never draft the perfect guy to fit. If a guy is a slightly better defender than another guy, but still won't be THE perfect fit in our future lineup, who cares?

[Ballings7]

You just have to remember that value>>>>fit in most cases. That's the bottom line. You can never draft the perfect guy to fit. If a guy is a slightly better defender than another guy, but still won't be THE perfect fit in our future lineup, who cares?

Yeah, I understand that about value, as I referenced to. What I also had to say was the other side of it relating to Gallinari being a part of the team - Gallinari would be a relatively poor fit for us next to Kevin. Relating to the team, the ultimate fate for Gallinari is that he wouldn't be a fit next to Kevin, and thus a main reason why he'd be traded. At least probably, and should be.

Doesn't have to "perfect", that's too extreme of an expectation. If you can get/find that perfect fit, terrifc, but it's moreso about an overall fit usually. Gallinari doesn't come close to being an overall fit because of his lacking defense, as well as it not being clear if he can really be a starting SF in the NBA.

And, I definitely wouldn't go by an insignificant defensive margin to choose somebody over another guy, in general. I don't know if that was a rhetorical question or not.

[jeffjtk1234]

i would love for the kings to trade for 2 first rounders. Itd be great. I think if we did that we could get chalmers late 1st and a decent big (arthur, etc.) mid 1st. Works for me. Also i like the prospect of the kings getting either DJ white or dorsey in the 2nd round. Dorsey would be a nice bruiser for the kings and white has ALOT of potential. But, id love if the kings could get augustine nor preferably ERIC GORDON!

[Ballings7]

Arthur and Chalmers would just be awesome, that'd be an ideal scenario for me

Both are going to be at least above-average, athletic complementary players on both ends of the court with multiple skills. Both high-level, all-around defensive players. Arthur I think maybe border-line all-star.

[jeffjtk1234]

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yeah i agree...itd be great if we could get 2 first rounders. Chalmers is clutch

[Ballings7]

DENVER, June 25 -- The Denver Nuggets have traded their first round draft selection (the 20th overall) in the 2008 NBA Draft to the Charlotte Bobcats in exchange for a future protected first round draft pick, Nuggets Vice President of Basketball Operations Mark Warkentien announced today.

The Nuggets now currently have no picks in tomorrow’s draft

http://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/nuggets ... 62508.html

Denver really could of used that to grab a shooter, which I thought they'd definitely do... pretty surprising by Denver. Though they are over the lux tax.

Definitely good for Charlotte in that they can bolster their bench with a solid player, in addition to getting a big or Westbrook at #9. They're going to have a very nice draft I think.

[a-rod]

Arthur is undersized, but so is Elton brand and he's a tough physical defender and great shot blocker, If Arthur half as good as brand on defense, I’d be very happy with the pick, otherwise I'm not crazy about him.....

[Ballings7]

Arthur's a bit undersized height-wise, but not significantly overall. Mass-wise he's going to get bigger, and has a pretty good base right now.

[pillwenney]

You just have to remember that value>>>>fit in most cases. That's the bottom line. You can never draft the perfect guy to fit. If a guy is a slightly better defender than another guy, but still won't be THE perfect fit in our future lineup, who cares?

Yeah, I understand that about value, as I referenced to. What I also had to say was the other side of it relating to Gallinari being a part of the team - Gallinari would be a relatively poor fit for us next to Kevin. Relating to the team, the ultimate fate for Gallinari is that he wouldn't be a fit next to Kevin, and thus a main reason why he'd be traded. At least probably, and should be.

Doesn't have to "perfect", that's too extreme of an expectation. If you can get/find that perfect fit, terrifc, but it's moreso about an overall fit usually. Gallinari doesn't come close to being an overall fit because of his lacking defense, as well as it not being clear if he can really be a starting SF in the NBA.

And, I definitely wouldn't go by an insignificant defensive margin to choose somebody over another guy, in general. I don't know if that was a rhetorical question or not.

But the team isn't finalized yet, so you can really only look so much at fit. Ultimately talent has to be the most important thing. If Petrie thinks that (for example) Gallinari is going to be a much better player than Arthur, and both are available (I realize Gallinari probably won't be--again, just an example) then Gallinari is a no-brainer pick.

Important part of the recent trades: The Pacers just traded for TJ Ford. I have to think that this greatly decreases the likelihood that they select Augustin. This changes things a lot for us IMO. I think the same could be true to a lesser extent for the Charlotte trade.

[Ballings7]

But the team isn't finalized yet, so you can really only look so much at fit. Ultimately talent has to be the most important thing. If Petrie thinks that (for example) Gallinari is going to be a much better player than Arthur, and both are available (I realize Gallinari probably won't be--again, just an example) then Gallinari is a no-brainer pick.

1. No, the team as a whole isn't finalized yet, but if we kept Gallinari to pair him with Kevin for the future - the SG/SF spot would be finalized. That's where I'm coming from, which is why Gallinari doesn't fit with this team.

What's probably going to happen with Gallinari in general where ever he goes, is, he starts at SF, but defensively he's lackluster and continues to start because of his offense and whatever he can give defensively. The other scenario is he goes to the bench as a big foward, because he can't be a starting SF, lacking the quickness to defend SFs consistently.

If it would be the case that Gallinari won't be a starter next to Kevin, but a good back-up large foward - why draft him in that situation, when you can draft better overall players (starting or off the bench)? Value included there.

And honestly, Gallinari would be looked at as a starter because of his offense, paired with Kevin, and "wait and see" how his defensive quickness adjusts to the NBA. Even though he's never going to be relied on as the top wing-defender on any team, and that's what we need in the SF who's next to Kevin.

2. And in that scenario (Gallinari over Arthur), Geoff would be wrong, not only in general, but also for this team.

Gallinari outside of value would be irrelevant for us, and would end up turning out that way when he'd be traded, because of the lacking defensive ability and likely inconsistent defensive focus, that would be present on the wings every year. If we just continued with that situation, we'd never be a contending team until changes are made to improve there, because of the significant weakness. Even if Gallinari turns out as just enough of defender against SFs - that's just not enough, and what is required next to Kevin defensively.

[RoyalCourtJestr]

Dude... there is no way we will take Hibbert without moving down.

And I think it's very UNLIKELY that we'll take Randolph without having worked him out.'

And I agree on Gallinari. He's gonna be a decent player, but nothing we need in a SF, and we DON"T need a SF right now ANYWAYS.

[pillwenney]

But the team isn't finalized yet, so you can really only look so much at fit. Ultimately talent has to be the most important thing. If Petrie thinks that (for example) Gallinari is going to be a much better player than Arthur, and both are available (I realize Gallinari probably won't be--again, just an example) then Gallinari is a no-brainer pick.

1. No, the team as a whole isn't finalized yet, but if we kept Gallinari to pair him with Kevin for the future - the SG/SF spot would be finalized. That's where I'm coming from, which is why Gallinari doesn't fit with this team.

What's probably going to happen with Gallinari in general where ever he goes, is, he starts at SF, but defensively he's lackluster and continues to start because of his offense and whatever he can give defensively. The other scenario is he goes to the bench as a big foward, because he can't be a starting SF, lacking the quickness to defend SFs consistently.

If it would be the case that Gallinari won't be a starter next to Kevin, but a good back-up large foward - why draft him in that situation, when you can draft better overall players (starting or off the bench)? Value included there.

And honestly, Gallinari would be looked at as a starter because of his offense, paired with Kevin, and "wait and see" how his defensive quickness adjusts to the NBA. Even though he's never going to be relied on as the top wing-defender on any team, and that's what we need in the SF who's next to Kevin.

2. And in that scenario (Gallinari over Arthur), Geoff would be wrong, not only in general, but also for this team.

Gallinari outside of value would be irrelevant for us, and would end up turning out that way when he'd be traded, because of the lacking defensive ability and likely inconsistent defensive focus, that would be present on the wings every year. If we just continued with that situation, we'd never be a contending team until changes are made to improve there, because of the significant weakness. Even if Gallinari turns out as just enough of defender against SFs - that's just not enough, and what is required next to Kevin defensively.

No it wouldn't, and I think that's where we're getting off track. When you don't have a franchise player, you're not really building around any one "thing". Like if we had say, Chris Bosh, I think it would be a given that we would need a strong defensive big next to him. But you can say that because Bosh is a franchise player (or some would argue he's not, but for the sake of argument...). I think I'm starting to realize that you can't build a franchise for need until you have a franchise player--which I think is actually a good thing. It gives you flexibility.

I guess the bottom line is that you simply are almost never going to find the perfect player at the perfect spot in the draft that both fills your needs and is the most talented player. It just doesn't happen that way.

So let's say that Geoff sees Arthur as nothing more than a future role player and he sees Gallinari as a future star (not saying I see things that way, but just for the sake of argument). If Arthur turns out to just be a so-so player (regardless of how well he fits, because fit doesn't matter if you don't have the talent), then he's not ultimately helping us toward a title anyway. If you have two star wings though, and you can trade one of them for somebody better than Arthur (or whoever, really), then you've put yourself in a better position. That's why rebuilding with trades works better than rebuilding with the draft--or I guess, why they work hand-in-hand

The bottom line is that needs are important and nice, but they can be filled later--but you're never going to trade a nice role player for a star. Not to mention that Kevin has the potential to improve drastically as a perimeter defender.

[RIPskaterdude]

Joe Alexander: Knicks at 6, Bucks at 8, Kings at 12, Blazers at 13. I think everyone feels Alexander is a lock to go to the Bucks at No. 8, but I wouldn't be shocked if the Knicks grabbed him. They seem to be really intrigued.

D.J. Augustin: Nets at 10, Pacers at 11, Kings at 12, Blazers at 13, Cavs at 19. We've had Augustin going to the Pacers for forever, but that obviously will change if they pull the trigger on the T.J. Ford deal. I don't think he'll slide too badly, however, given the interest by the Kings and the Blazers. In fact, the Blazers are talking about moving up to No. 10 in a deal with the Nets that would send 13, 33 and Jarrett Jack to New Jersey for 10 and Mo Ager. The Blazers' target appears to be Augustin. I think the farthest he will drop is Cleveland at No. 19.

Anthony Randolph: Bucks at 8, Bobcats at 9, Kings at 12, Blazers at 13, Suns at 15, Sixers at 16. The Bucks say Randolph is seriously in the mix at No. 8. Ditto for the Bobcats at No. 9 if Lopez, Love and Westbrook all are off the board. He's a long shot at 12, 13 or 15. I doubt the Sixers will let him slide past them at No. 16.

Darrell Arthur: Kings at 12, Warriors at 14, Sixers at 16, Wizards at 18. Arthur's poor measurements and lackluster combine performance have hurt him a bit. So has a back problem that caused him to miss a week of workouts.

Donte Greene: Kings at 12, Blazers at 13, Warriors at 14, Raptors at 17, Rockets at 25. Greene has one of the widest ranges of any player in the draft. Some scouts see the second coming of Rashard Lewis. Others see an inexperienced, one-dimensional jump shooter. I hear the Kings are high on him and the Rockets are trying to move up to get him.

Mario Chalmers: Kings at 12, Blazers at 13, Suns at 15, Raptors at 17, Cavs at 19, Nuggets at 20, Magic at 22. Chalmers also has helped his stock in workouts. I say the Suns at No. 15 or the Cavs at No. 19 are the best spots for him right now.

Roy Hibbert: Kings at 12, Wizards at 18, Cavs at 19, Jazz at 23. The Kings are seriously looking at Hibbert at No. 12. If he doesn't go 12, he could slide all the way to the Jazz at No. 23.

Omer Asik: Sonics at 24, Grizzlies at 28, Wolves at 31, Blazers at 36, Kings at 43. He's a real talent. If there weren't serious contract issues with his team in Turkey, he probably would sneak into the first round.

[chriswebb86]

I really hope Alexander drops to us. I am pretty high on him. However, I wouldnt mind Eric Gordan, DJ, and some others if they are there too. Also, I would love to get a late first or the blazers first 2nd round pick to get Ryan Anderson. I think the kid could be a special player. On the offensive end he can score with some of the best out there. On the defensive side, he has somethings to work on but with his height he could really become a good defensive player.

[UKF]

Time to fix the title of this thread..

[UKF]

I really hope Alexander drops to us. I am pretty high on him. However, I wouldnt mind Eric Gordan, DJ, and some others if they are there too. Also, I would love to get a late first or the blazers first 2nd round pick to get Ryan Anderson. I think the kid could be a special player. On the offensive end he can score with some of the best out there. On the defensive side, he has somethings to work on but with his height he could really become a good defensive player.

Alexander will most likely go to Milwaukee, but I would love to have him as well.

There is no way Eric Gordon gets by the Clippers from what I heard.

[RoyalCourtJestr]

Clippers could take Westbrook if he's there, or Bayless if he's there... either way, they'll be taking a PG.

If they take Gordon, then I'll understand the CLippers interest in Beno... although I do get both Bayless and Westbrook would need time to become a PG they need, Beno wouldn't be getting a long termer from them.

I'm not to high on Ryan Anderson. Saw a few games this year living so close to Cal. He's one dementional.

[Ballings7]

I guess the bottom line is that you simply are almost never going to find the perfect player at the perfect spot in the draft that both fills your needs and is the most talented player. It just doesn't happen that way.

Okay, and that's not what is at discussion here at all. I've already said that finding the perfect fit is too much to expect.

Generally, you have to measure a player as a whole when you''re going to be fitting and evaluating him onto your team. If he doesn't quite relate to that with your core/top players, and possibly the team system, philsophy (which we don't have definition there yet), then he's only going to be around for the short-term. Thus why Gallinari, isn't a fit, but a value piece, because he's not going to slot in solidly next to Kevin. Somebody who would fall under fitting will come around, because the type of player that's required, has a diverse pool cycle of players (versatile defensive/two-way/defensive-shooting-offensive deference wing-players).

So let's say that Geoff sees Arthur as nothing more than a future role player and he sees Gallinari as a future star (not saying I see things that way, but just for the sake of argument). If Arthur turns out to just be a so-so player (regardless of how well he fits, because fit doesn't matter if you don't have the talent), then he's not ultimately helping us toward a title anyway. If you have two star wings though, and you can trade one of them for somebody better than Arthur (or whoever, really), then you've put yourself in a better position. That's why rebuilding with trades works better than rebuilding with the draft--or I guess, why they work hand-in-hand

I agree here, because value is involved. Gallinari would have more value to teams than Arthur because of his offensive talent (I'd actually value Arthur more over Gallinari). Player vs. player, value aside, I think Arthur's the better prospect overall, and the better fit, which is what I was talking about in this part in the previous post. I wasn't under the impression that value was involved.

The bottom line is that needs are important and nice, but they can be filled later--but you're never going to trade a nice role player for a star. Not to mention that Kevin has the potential to improve drastically as a perimeter defender.

I agree you're not going to be able to trade a nice role-player for a star, I haven't referenced to going against that.

Kevin does have that potential to improve as a defender, [bindividually[/b] - but the thing is he's just not going to be counted on, nor have the right kind of size body-wise that's needed, and consistent mind-set, to be our stopper on the wings. Because of his offensive responsibility, what he's going to have to do defensively, is pick his spots when to commit on defense, at times for short, at times longer, and the rest of the time just be adequate so he isn't losing focus and responsibility for his part in playing defense.

Which is why, the other big wing has to be the guy who's going to typically take the responsibiliy of slowing down and making it tough on the other team's best wing-scorer. Now at certain times, Kevin can and will do that, but that's it. Like he has against Ray Allen (a couple times) and Steve Nash in the past. But the majority of the time, the SF will have to do that.

Gallinari won't be that guy, he's just not going to be enough of an individual defender - which is why he wouldn't be a long-term piece on this team if we drafted him. Because if he is, who's going to be the guy who has the ability and consistent mind-set, to take on the aformentioned task over the course of games? Nobody on this team, but somebody else who will have to come in eventually.

[SacKingZZZ]

Dude my dream pick would be for Gordon to fall to us. But, that ain't gonna happen!!! haha. I wish though.

Now, I am pretty sure one of Westbrook or Augustin will be there when we pick because of the TJ Ford/J.O. deal. I think the Pacers will go after Randolph at 11.

If we pick one of Westbrook or Augustin we better freaking get a PF somewhere else in the draft!!! I really wouldn't mind the Kings trading the 12th to move down and maybe get Speights, Hendrix, or Arthur. As well as a guy like Chalmers, Hibbert, or McGee with another pick. Another guy to look out for would be Jason Thompson. Maybe we can trade our two 2nd rounders to go after a later 1st to nab him. If we do, I will be happy to draft a guy like Augustin but if we get Augustin and a couple of OK international guys that will never play here, or another gaurd or two I am going to be pissed. This is a much better draft in the latter stages in the F department than the PG one. Whereas we probably won't get the kind of PF even in the 1st round next year, that we could potentially get in the 2nd round this year. Next year is a G/SF dominated draft and looks to have a very, very weak PF crop.

[RIPskaterdude]

If we could trade down and get a player like Chalmers, then get an extra pick/player out of it, I would be very happy with our draft. If we reach at 12 and pick Hibbert/Chalmers...