General Trade Rumors

[nolimit0820]

Yeah...hindsight is 2020, but I would've rocked with Vince and Z Bo as our only vets. Catastrophic in the sense that we haven't picked a direction and our young guys are suffering for it. I'm not on the fire Vlade train, but it makes me question if DJ has too much say into the roster moves. The "make the young guys watch" is his philosophy

[blind prophet]

Settle down with Papa, we all know this was a bad pick, pretty much all knew it on draft night.

We didn't want to commit to the Hill salary next year, or that meager one mil after that.

So we grabbed a second, cut Hill's salary in half if Shump opts in, and we waived a guy who doesn't belong in the league.

It's called cut your loses and scrape away what you can while you can.

Not pretty, but it's a lot better than doing nothing.

[Sacramento_King]

So we thought we could waive Bruno but were forced to cut someone from roster since Cavs deal was first. Man, front office struggled today

Is there a source on that or is it just guessing on your part? If so then how they don't realize that a buyout of Carter is right there is beyond goofy and not a good sign moving forward.

I saw on Twitter today but cant find now. I thought it was Bobby Marks but didn't see on his feed. I was on a bunch of sites and feeds so a little scrambled but I read that Cavs deal was processed and we were working on Raptors deal to assist Toronto and free some money for them and were going to waive Bruno to complete roster size but had to be at fifteen before Malachi / Bruno deal could be completed. I can't find anything now so maybe just speculation.

[VeganKingsFan]

So we thought we could waive Bruno but were forced to cut someone from roster since Cavs deal was first. Man, front office struggled today

Is there a source on that or is it just guessing on your part? If so then how they don't realize that a buyout of Carter is right there is beyond goofy and not a good sign moving forward.

I saw on Twitter today but cant find now. I thought it was Bobby Marks but didn't see on his feed. I was on a bunch of sites and feeds so a little scrambled but I read that Cavs deal was processed and we were working on Raptors deal to assist Toronto and free some money for them and were going to waive Bruno to complete roster size but had to be at fifteen before Malachi / Bruno deal could be completed. I can't find anything now so maybe just speculation.

The order you agree to the deals doesn't have to be the same order they are completed. It is obvious and common practice to complete a later agreed deal first, and there's no possibility that it wasn't their plan from the beginning. People just want to believe that Vlade is the most incompetent person on Earth by thinking that he wasn't smart enough to know that he couldn't have 16 players.

[jazanetti]

Jazz got solid player and good contract (Crowder) for expiring Hood, LAL got 1st round pick and cleaned cup space at the same time for just Nance. We got bad contract (Shump) and just 2nd rounder (50 range) for Hill and have to wave 20 year old 13th pick Papa... Seems like Vlade were screwed again
I'd give our 2018 1st rounder just to kick Vlade and his gang out of FO.

[benchmobbin02]

Some of the anger at the front office is understandable but I think we are positioning ourselves for the future nicely.

IMO we had enough of a look at Papa and Malachi to know they wouldn't fit with our core. Yes they are assets and getting rid of them is eye opening and target for those that don't like the FO but I can appreciate us being decisive.

This remaining year is about developing and playing the young guys for experience. We have guys out injured so the vets will still get time. I am excited for the future.

[SacSanity]

Jazz got solid player and good contract (Crowder) for expiring Hood, LAL got 1st round pick and cleaned cup space at the same time for just Nance. We got bad contract (Shump) and just 2nd rounder (50 range) for Hill and have to wave 20 year old 13th pick Papa... Seems like Vlade were screwed again
I'd give our 2018 1st rounder just to kick Vlade and his gang out of FO.

What were your expectations of Papa? Do you think he can be a start in the league? If not, name me a team that brings a slow 7footer with post moves off the bench to play. The FO obviously saw it wasnt going anywhere.

[jazanetti]

Jazz got solid player and good contract (Crowder) for expiring Hood, LAL got 1st round pick and cleaned cup space at the same time for just Nance. We got bad contract (Shump) and just 2nd rounder (50 range) for Hill and have to wave 20 year old 13th pick Papa... Seems like Vlade were screwed again
I'd give our 2018 1st rounder just to kick Vlade and his gang out of FO.

What were your expectations of Papa? Do you think he can be a start in the league? If not, name me a team that brings a slow 7footer with post moves off the bench to play. The FO obviously saw it wasnt going anywhere.

Did you see Mark Gasol at the age of 20? Yes Papa is very raw, but we had 2,5 years to work with him. Can't we wave one of expiring vets KK, Tample, Carter??? Or can't we get and wave Frye instead of Shumpert?
Even if Papa is really too bad to play in NBA, he was drafted by Vlade using lottery pick.

[benchmobbin02]

Jazz got solid player and good contract (Crowder) for expiring Hood, LAL got 1st round pick and cleaned cup space at the same time for just Nance. We got bad contract (Shump) and just 2nd rounder (50 range) for Hill and have to wave 20 year old 13th pick Papa... Seems like Vlade were screwed again
I'd give our 2018 1st rounder just to kick Vlade and his gang out of FO.

What were your expectations of Papa? Do you think he can be a start in the league? If not, name me a team that brings a slow 7footer with post moves off the bench to play. The FO obviously saw it wasnt going anywhere.

Did you see Mark Gasol at the age of 20? Yes Papa is very raw, but we had 2,5 years to work with him. Can't we wave one of expiring vets KK, Tample, Carter??? Or can't we get and wave Frye instead of Shumpert?
Even if Papa is really too bad to play in NBA, he was drafted by Vlade using lottery pick.

I don't think it was about Papa being too bad to play in the NBA. I think he could develop into a decent player. I think it was more about the team not liking his fit and/or attitude for lack of a better descriptor. We could spend the next 3 years developing this kid but if they see the warning signs that he could grow some of the negative aspects to his on court game that Boogie had then it's best to make a decision now.

The Cavs already had Fyre involved in the LA deal. KK and Temple are great teammates and if either did decide to not opt out next year it wouldn't hurt us in terms of salary or locker room. I think Carter is done after this year. Just my opinion. I wanna see him coaching and mentoring or youngsters. Think he got a taste of it and he likes it. Johnson may still be waived this year and Zbo could be waived next year if necessary. We are really set up nicely.

Yes, Vlade did use 1st rd picks on Papa and Malachi. But he also drafted WCS, Fox, Jackson, Skal, and Giles in the 1st. He also brought in BB, Hield and Bruno. This is a rebuild and not everyone is gonna work out. I like the room full of young guys do have.

[sacking123]

This deadline isn’t just about Malachi, Papa G going out. It’s about the direction.
Malachi showed some things last year albeit in limited minutes so he should have gone in the off season then, same with Papa G. You simply don’t trash a young guys value and then dump them for nothing. There isn’t a franchise around that has/is successful doing it.
And as I have said, for the rest of the year we have 3 guys on player options that are going to want minutes to maximise their value plus Randolph.
This won’t end well this season and Vlade should be communicating what the hell his plan is, because 12 months ago Papa was a future all star.


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[benchmobbin02]

This deadline isn’t just about Malachi, Papa G going out. It’s about the direction.
Malachi showed some things last year albeit in limited minutes so he should have gone in the off season then, same with Papa G. You simply don’t trash a young guys value and then dump them for nothing. There isn’t a franchise around that has/is successful doing it.
And as I have said, for the rest of the year we have 3 guys on player options that are going to want minutes to maximise their value plus Randolph.
This won’t end well this season and Vlade should be communicating what the hell his plan is, because 12 months ago Papa was a future all star.


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You can call out Vlade and the FO for "trashing" those guys value. That's fine. No one is perfect but I think you're focusing on the wrong think. The direction is about a rebuilding team that is managing the young cores development both as players and a unit and FO managing the future both financially and tonally. Vlade doesn't need to communicate that. It's obvious.

The 3 guys that have player options aren't a concern in the grand scheme of things. They have no choice but to fall in line with the direction that has already been communicated for the vets. They will get time in shifts and the focus will be on the young players as games plans and health allow. They all (KK, Temple and Shump) have proven to be decent pros in the league and shouldn't have trouble getting picked up after the year is over and they should also get the message that they aren't in the long term plans. I don't see any of them being a problem and if they do cause a stink they will only be hurting themselves.

[jazanetti]

What were your expectations of Papa? Do you think he can be a start in the league? If not, name me a team that brings a slow 7footer with post moves off the bench to play. The FO obviously saw it wasnt going anywhere.

Did you see Mark Gasol at the age of 20? Yes Papa is very raw, but we had 2,5 years to work with him. Can't we wave one of expiring vets KK, Tample, Carter??? Or can't we get and wave Frye instead of Shumpert?
Even if Papa is really too bad to play in NBA, he was drafted by Vlade using lottery pick.

I don't think it was about Papa being too bad to play in the NBA. I think he could develop into a decent player. I think it was more about the team not liking his fit and/or attitude for lack of a better descriptor. We could spend the next 3 years developing this kid but if they see the warning signs that he could grow some of the negative aspects to his on court game that Boogie had then it's best to make a decision now.

The Cavs already had Fyre involved in the LA deal. KK and Temple are great teammates and if either did decide to not opt out next year it wouldn't hurt us in terms of salary or locker room. I think Carter is done after this year. Just my opinion. I wanna see him coaching and mentoring or youngsters. Think he got a taste of it and he likes it. Johnson may still be waived this year and Zbo could be waived next year if necessary. We are really set up nicely.

Yes, Vlade did use 1st rd picks on Papa and Malachi. But he also drafted WCS, Fox, Jackson, Skal, and Giles in the 1st. He also brought in BB, Hield and Bruno. This is a rebuild and not everyone is gonna work out. I like the room full of young guys do have.

Everything is right separately, but in general deadline looks awful. Cavs were interested in Hill, so Vlade must dictate the terms, not vice versa. Jazz and Lakers got what they want, while we were robbed.
Caboclo showed absolutely nothing in NBA (far less than Papa), but Raptors traded his expiring contract for Malachi. While we just waved Papa. I really can't understand all this **** happened yesterday! Billi King's a genius in comparison with Vlade.

[sacking123]

This deadline isn’t just about Malachi, Papa G going out. It’s about the direction.
Malachi showed some things last year albeit in limited minutes so he should have gone in the off season then, same with Papa G. You simply don’t trash a young guys value and then dump them for nothing. There isn’t a franchise around that has/is successful doing it.
And as I have said, for the rest of the year we have 3 guys on player options that are going to want minutes to maximise their value plus Randolph.
This won’t end well this season and Vlade should be communicating what the hell his plan is, because 12 months ago Papa was a future all star.


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You can call out Vlade and the FO for "trashing" those guys value. That's fine. No one is perfect but I think you're focusing on the wrong think. The direction is about a rebuilding team that is managing the young cores development both as players and a unit and FO managing the future both financially and tonally. Vlade doesn't need to communicate that. It's obvious.

The 3 guys that have player options aren't a concern in the grand scheme of things. They have no choice but to fall in line with the direction that has already been communicated for the vets. They will get time in shifts and the focus will be on the young players as games plans and health allow. They all (KK, Temple and Shump) have proven to be decent pros in the league and shouldn't have trouble getting picked up after the year is over and they should also get the message that they aren't in the long term plans. I don't see any of them being a problem and if they do cause a stink they will only be hurting themselves.

So you think Vlade shouldn’t explain why he just waived a future all star after 1.5 seasons? J/k but come on, there wasn’t a reason to waive Papa. You can say they had a good enough look at him, but that is pure crap. If you draft a project big that is 18 and you believe he is going to be an all star and then waive him a year later then that is off the charts incompetence.
I can get behind the Bruno/Malachi swap if he believes Bruno could do something, no worries there.

The fall in line with the direction for the vets could also have been said about Hill with the way his contract is structured, no difference at all in regard to them having 1 year left so it really doesn’t play.
I don’t see any of the 3, perhaps Temple, opting out as there just won’t be a market.
We all looked forward to the off season last year because of cap space and what we could do with it, well it didn’t equate to much and now there is a premium on 1st rounders we won’t be getting any of them for cap space either, that ship sailed and we were simply too late last year.



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[benchmobbin02]

Did you see Mark Gasol at the age of 20? Yes Papa is very raw, but we had 2,5 years to work with him. Can't we wave one of expiring vets KK, Tample, Carter??? Or can't we get and wave Frye instead of Shumpert?
Even if Papa is really too bad to play in NBA, he was drafted by Vlade using lottery pick.

I don't think it was about Papa being too bad to play in the NBA. I think he could develop into a decent player. I think it was more about the team not liking his fit and/or attitude for lack of a better descriptor. We could spend the next 3 years developing this kid but if they see the warning signs that he could grow some of the negative aspects to his on court game that Boogie had then it's best to make a decision now.

The Cavs already had Fyre involved in the LA deal. KK and Temple are great teammates and if either did decide to not opt out next year it wouldn't hurt us in terms of salary or locker room. I think Carter is done after this year. Just my opinion. I wanna see him coaching and mentoring or youngsters. Think he got a taste of it and he likes it. Johnson may still be waived this year and Zbo could be waived next year if necessary. We are really set up nicely.

Yes, Vlade did use 1st rd picks on Papa and Malachi. But he also drafted WCS, Fox, Jackson, Skal, and Giles in the 1st. He also brought in BB, Hield and Bruno. This is a rebuild and not everyone is gonna work out. I like the room full of young guys do have.

Everything is right separately, but in general deadline looks awful. Cavs were interested in Hill, so Vlade must dictate the terms, not vice versa. Jazz and Lakers got what they want, while we were robbed.
Caboclo showed absolutely nothing in NBA (far less than Papa), but Raptors traded his expiring contract for Malachi. While we just waved Papa. I really can't understand all this **** happened yesterday! Billi King's a genius in comparison with Vlade.

!st, Billy King would has screwed up more than half his picks unlike Vlade. Miss me with that garbage.

2nd, since when has anyone been under the impression that Vlade wouldn't make mistakes. I think the important part is the overall outlook of the team which is is we are positioned very well for the future.

Bruno has a much higher ceiling and showed more on the court than Papa but he has also been in the league longer and has a bigger up side. Bruno has the ability to turn into something special while none of us would say that about Papa.

[benchmobbin02]

This deadline isn’t just about Malachi, Papa G going out. It’s about the direction.
Malachi showed some things last year albeit in limited minutes so he should have gone in the off season then, same with Papa G. You simply don’t trash a young guys value and then dump them for nothing. There isn’t a franchise around that has/is successful doing it.
And as I have said, for the rest of the year we have 3 guys on player options that are going to want minutes to maximise their value plus Randolph.
This won’t end well this season and Vlade should be communicating what the hell his plan is, because 12 months ago Papa was a future all star.


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You can call out Vlade and the FO for "trashing" those guys value. That's fine. No one is perfect but I think you're focusing on the wrong think. The direction is about a rebuilding team that is managing the young cores development both as players and a unit and FO managing the future both financially and tonally. Vlade doesn't need to communicate that. It's obvious.

The 3 guys that have player options aren't a concern in the grand scheme of things. They have no choice but to fall in line with the direction that has already been communicated for the vets. They will get time in shifts and the focus will be on the young players as games plans and health allow. They all (KK, Temple and Shump) have proven to be decent pros in the league and shouldn't have trouble getting picked up after the year is over and they should also get the message that they aren't in the long term plans. I don't see any of them being a problem and if they do cause a stink they will only be hurting themselves.

So you think Vlade shouldn’t explain why he just waived a future all star after 1.5 seasons? J/k but come on, there wasn’t a reason to waive Papa. You can say they had a good enough look at him, but that is pure crap. If you draft a project big that is 18 and you believe he is going to be an all star and then waive him a year later then that is off the charts incompetence.
I can get behind the Bruno/Malachi swap if he believes Bruno could do something, no worries there.

The fall in line with the direction for the vets could also have been said about Hill with the way his contract is structured, no difference at all in regard to them having 1 year left so it really doesn’t play.
I don’t see any of the 3, perhaps Temple, opting out as there just won’t be a market.
We all looked forward to the off season last year because of cap space and what we could do with it, well it didn’t equate to much and now there is a premium on 1st rounders we won’t be getting any of them for cap space either, that ship sailed and we were simply too late last year.

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So you don't think someone can show you bad traits that make you change your mind about them in a years time? It's not pure crap that they had a long enough look at him if what they saw was concerning enough, which all the signs (no playing time and out right waived) point to. Your arguments just makes no sense.

And yeah, theoretically the same argument could apply to Hill but there are differences. First, Hill was making substantially more than the other vets. It helps the team more to off load his guaranteed 2018-19 20mil and bring back Johnson's expiring and Shump's player option. Even if Shump opts in it still helps us more. Next, Temple and KK are great teammates that have never caused trouble. They seem to have bought into the team's plan. Now it could be because they are just great guys or because they know they can opt out next year and go somewhere else for better playing time. I think both will have more than one offer that will suit their needs next year. Even if just one of them opts out we are looking good cap wise because we aren't trying to sign Lebron. We may try to add one piece, maybe at C or SF depending on who we draft but the team is pretty much set with the young pieces we have.

None of our vets were gonna bring back a 1st rd pick in a deal. The guys that garnered 1st were Blake Griffin, Eric Bledsoe (lottery protected), Mirotic, and a combo of Nance and Clarkson.

[jazanetti]

I can't believe that it was thoughtful decision and Papa was waived just because of his poor performance. Much more realistic reason is Vlade messed up while making trades.

[Sacramento_King]

I can't believe that it was thoughtful decision and Papa was waived just because of his poor performance. Much more realistic reason is Vlade messed up while making trades.

Maybe Vlade showed some cajones and deemed Papa a mistake and decided to invest timing and development in Giles, Skal and WCS and released him. Caboclo although he hasn't shown much is much more "built" for today's game while Papa is built for 80's / early 90's throw it down low and bang. I'm hoping that's case at least.

[SacKingZZZ]

To me it sounded like the waiving of Papa G had as much to do with decreasing the workload of the coaching staff as anything. I still don't understand the issue considering his number remains on the cap next year anyway and the Kings really only have Willie at C right now and he's not getting any younger. You could sit him or send him down the G league as much as possible and be no worse off with there still being a chance that you can erase his salary from the cap this summer via trade. Is there a chance they were able to stretch his deal? If so that might save the Kings some space.

[benchmobbin02]

To me it sounded like the waiving of Papa G had as much to do with decreasing the workload of the coaching staff as anything. I still don't understand the issue considering his number remains on the cap next year anyway and the Kings really only have Willie at C right now and he's not getting any younger. You could sit him or send him down the G league as much as possible and be no worse off with there still being a chance that you can erase his salary from the cap this summer via trade. Is there a chance they were able to stretch his deal? If so that might save the Kings some space.

Doubt they cut him so they didn't have to work harder. Lowest denominator assumption.

Much more likely they had worked with him and didn't see him developing into a fit with the core, either in play or attitude/demeanor or both.

[SacKingZZZ]

To me it sounded like the waiving of Papa G had as much to do with decreasing the workload of the coaching staff as anything. I still don't understand the issue considering his number remains on the cap next year anyway and the Kings really only have Willie at C right now and he's not getting any younger. You could sit him or send him down the G league as much as possible and be no worse off with there still being a chance that you can erase his salary from the cap this summer via trade. Is there a chance they were able to stretch his deal? If so that might save the Kings some space.

Doubt they cut him so they didn't have to work harder. Lowest denominator assumption.

Much more likely they had worked with him and didn't see him developing into a fit with the core, either in play or attitude/demeanor or both.

Vlade basically said that this allows them to focus on less guys when asked if having 10 rookies was too much, thus decreasing the workload. Developing 10 young guys would be hard for any staff so this will lighten the load. I heard nothing about your next paragraph from him however.