General Trade Rumors

[kingjawn100]

Random question...if it comes to down to extending Willie or throwing a ton of money at Julius Randle which would you guys prefer?

Their numbers offensively are pretty similar with Randle being slightly better while WCS, despite his limitations, is the better defensive player. To me if those are really the 2 options id rather stick with the guy we drafted and hope he continues to develop. If it's basically a lateral move then why do it

I'm of the mode to throw out whatever it takes for Aaron Gordon and if it doesn't work get low level free agents to backup our young guys.

They are two different players. I think Randle fits with the Kings, but WCS does as well. Willie brings defensive versatility (when locked in) and insane lob catching ability on offense. Randle brings scoring, (a lot) better rebounding and passing. I’d prefer Willie in this situation. He brings defense that the team lacks. Randle may fit in Joerger’s offensive system better, but I think Willie’s defense is a lot better.

Surprisingly Randle is only a little better of a rebounder than WCS. This year Randle's averaging 7.5 compared to Willie's 6.9. Randle's biggest shortcoming is by far his short arms/small wingspan. Compare that to Willie and you can see why, in theory, Willie's defensive upside is so much higher.

With that being said, when it comes to rebounding i still have yet to ever see Willie grab a tough rebound. He gets a lot of 'Willie rebounds', meaning a defensive rebound when no one from the shooting team goes for the rebound, the ball comes directly to Willie's vicinity, and Willie gets the ball because he's the tallest guy on the court. I swear 95% of his rebounds are "willie rebounds".

[kalenclayton]

Random question...if it comes to down to extending Willie or throwing a ton of money at Julius Randle which would you guys prefer?

Their numbers offensively are pretty similar with Randle being slightly better while WCS, despite his limitations, is the better defensive player. To me if those are really the 2 options id rather stick with the guy we drafted and hope he continues to develop. If it's basically a lateral move then why do it

I'm of the mode to throw out whatever it takes for Aaron Gordon and if it doesn't work get low level free agents to backup our young guys.

They are two different players. I think Randle fits with the Kings, but WCS does as well. Willie brings defensive versatility (when locked in) and insane lob catching ability on offense. Randle brings scoring, (a lot) better rebounding and passing. I’d prefer Willie in this situation. He brings defense that the team lacks. Randle may fit in Joerger’s offensive system better, but I think Willie’s defense is a lot better.

Surprisingly Randle is only a little better of a rebounder than WCS. This year Randle's averaging 7.5 compared to Willie's 6.9. Randle's biggest shortcoming is by far his short arms/small wingspan. Compare that to Willie and you can see why, in theory, Willie's defensive upside is so much higher.

With that being said, when it comes to rebounding i still have yet to ever see Willie grab a tough rebound. He gets a lot of 'Willie rebounds', meaning a defensive rebound when no one from the shooting team goes for the rebound, the ball comes directly to Willie's vicinity, and Willie gets the ball because he's the tallest guy on the court. I swear 95% of his rebounds are "willie rebounds".

I agree with you Willie rebound comment. I actually saw a good one from him in the Laker game. It was refreshing, but that’s sad that I can say it was refreshing.

I actually think that if the Kings traded Willie for Randle, both of the players would look a lot better. Just because of the systems. I just think Willie is a better fit for the modern NBA.

[SacKingZZZ]

I'd go Willie over Randle at this point.

[SacKingZZZ]

Random question...if it comes to down to extending Willie or throwing a ton of money at Julius Randle which would you guys prefer?

Their numbers offensively are pretty similar with Randle being slightly better while WCS, despite his limitations, is the better defensive player. To me if those are really the 2 options id rather stick with the guy we drafted and hope he continues to develop. If it's basically a lateral move then why do it

I'm of the mode to throw out whatever it takes for Aaron Gordon and if it doesn't work get low level free agents to backup our young guys.

They are two different players. I think Randle fits with the Kings, but WCS does as well. Willie brings defensive versatility (when locked in) and insane lob catching ability on offense. Randle brings scoring, (a lot) better rebounding and passing. I’d prefer Willie in this situation. He brings defense that the team lacks. Randle may fit in Joerger’s offensive system better, but I think Willie’s defense is a lot better.

Surprisingly Randle is only a little better of a rebounder than WCS. This year Randle's averaging 7.5 compared to Willie's 6.9. Randle's biggest shortcoming is by far his short arms/small wingspan. Compare that to Willie and you can see why, in theory, Willie's defensive upside is so much higher.

With that being said, when it comes to rebounding i still have yet to ever see Willie grab a tough rebound. He gets a lot of 'Willie rebounds', meaning a defensive rebound when no one from the shooting team goes for the rebound, the ball comes directly to Willie's vicinity, and Willie gets the ball because he's the tallest guy on the court. I swear 95% of his rebounds are "willie rebounds".

Yeah, there is a lack of physicality involved with Willie that is what it is. Having a couple of good rebounding guards like Fox and Buddy will aid him slightly.

[NYG]

If the Kings draft Ayton, Bamba, Jackson or Bagley, would they trade Iman Shumpert and WCS for Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, 2020 Unprotected Rockets 1st and 2022 Unprotected Rockets 1st?

[codydaze]

If the Kings draft Ayton, Bamba, Jackson or Bagley, would they trade Iman Shumpert and WCS for Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, 2020 Unprotected Rockets 1st and 2022 Unprotected Rockets 1st?

The Anderson contract would be tough to eat and adding Gordon to the SG rotation with Bogdan and Buddy would be counterproductive to our rebuild so not likely.

[kalenclayton]

If the Kings draft Ayton, Bamba, Jackson or Bagley, would they trade Iman Shumpert and WCS for Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, 2020 Unprotected Rockets 1st and 2022 Unprotected Rockets 1st?

The Anderson contract would be tough to eat and adding Gordon to the SG rotation with Bogdan and Buddy would be counterproductive to our rebuild so not likely.

I agree with you here that the trade is counterproductive in theory. I don’t like the return all that much as well because the two firsts are likely late firsts... but for some reason I think Gordon could work with Hield, Bogie, and Fox. Bogie is pretty darn good as the lead guard plus he can play the 3. Gordon can handle the rock as well. I think there would be enough minutes for the four of them if they really wanted to try this out. I just know Joerger would have to implement a fast paced offense to make it work and that’s where this becomes extremely unrealistic.

[DusterBuster]

What's Kings fans thought on Meyers Leonard and the Blazers FRP for Shumpert's contract?

Or if not Shump, any other version of Sacramento absorbing some (or all) of Leonard's contract for a FRP?

[kalenclayton]

What's Kings fans thought on Meyers Leonard and the Blazers FRP for Shumpert's contract?

Or if not Shump, any other version of Sacramento absorbing some (or all) of Leonard's contract for a FRP?

I don’t like that just because I like the flexibility that is being built. If we had to make a move, though, I would want Leonard and PDX’s 2019 unprotected 1st for Shumpert.

[DusterBuster]

What's Kings fans thought on Meyers Leonard and the Blazers FRP for Shumpert's contract?

Or if not Shump, any other version of Sacramento absorbing some (or all) of Leonard's contract for a FRP?

I don’t like that just because I like the flexibility that is being built. If we had to make a move, though, I would want Leonard and PDX’s 2019 unprotected 1st for Shumpert.

An unprotected is a pretty big overpay for only shaving 9mil off the books...

I would require the Kings full on absorb Leonards whole deal for that pick.

[kalenclayton]

What's Kings fans thought on Meyers Leonard and the Blazers FRP for Shumpert's contract?

Or if not Shump, any other version of Sacramento absorbing some (or all) of Leonard's contract for a FRP?

I don’t like that just because I like the flexibility that is being built. If we had to make a move, though, I would want Leonard and PDX’s 2019 unprotected 1st for Shumpert.

An unprotected is a pretty big overpay for only shaving 9mil off the books...

I would require the Kings full on absorb Leonards whole deal for that pick.

I think that’s where it falls apart. The Kings aren’t really interested in taking on later salary as they are planning for 2019. They would totally take salary in 2018 for 2nds probably, but that’s about it. Just curious, but what protection would you need to make it happen?

[DusterBuster]

I don’t like that just because I like the flexibility that is being built. If we had to make a move, though, I would want Leonard and PDX’s 2019 unprotected 1st for Shumpert.

An unprotected is a pretty big overpay for only shaving 9mil off the books...

I would require the Kings full on absorb Leonards whole deal for that pick.

I think that’s where it falls apart. The Kings aren’t really interested in taking on later salary as they are planning for 2019. They would totally take salary in 2018 for 2nds probably, but that’s about it. Just curious, but what protection would you need to make it happen?

They would take on salary for 2nds but not 1sts? I'm having a hard time understanding your thinking. Also, can someone explain what flexibility the Kings are saving so much cap space for? No offense, but Sacramento isn't going to be a FA destination anytime during the final two years of Leonard's contract, so I'm not exactly sure why taking on one extra year of salary from Shump's deal (who's arguably equally as useless as Meyers at this point in his career) is so damaging for the Kings where they wouldn't want an extra FRP and keep feeding the team with youth.

[kalenclayton]

An unprotected is a pretty big overpay for only shaving 9mil off the books...

I would require the Kings full on absorb Leonards whole deal for that pick.

I think that’s where it falls apart. The Kings aren’t really interested in taking on later salary as they are planning for 2019. They would totally take salary in 2018 for 2nds probably, but that’s about it. Just curious, but what protection would you need to make it happen?

They would take on salary for 2nds but not 1sts? I'm having a hard time understanding your thinking. Also, can someone explain what flexibility the Kings are saving so much cap space for? No offense, but Sacramento isn't going to be a FA destination anytime during the final two years of Leonard's contract, so I'm not exactly sure why taking on one extra year of salary from Shump's deal (who's arguably equally as useless as Meyers at this point in his career) is so damaging for the Kings where they wouldn't want an extra FRP and keep feeding the team with youth.

You read too much in to what I said. Of course the Kings would want a first. I just know that nobody would give them a first just to take an expiring.

Flexibility has been what Vlade has been preaching. Just because you and I don’t think the Kings are a marquee destination doesn’t mean Vlade doesn’t. He’s been saying this for a year now. He’s keeping the roster flexible for the 2019 offseason. That could be for trades and/or free agents. Who knows?! That is what fans are barking out. I’m trying to give you what we are being fed. What Vlade is thinking isn’t necessarily what fans are thinking.

[DusterBuster]

I think that’s where it falls apart. The Kings aren’t really interested in taking on later salary as they are planning for 2019. They would totally take salary in 2018 for 2nds probably, but that’s about it. Just curious, but what protection would you need to make it happen?

They would take on salary for 2nds but not 1sts? I'm having a hard time understanding your thinking. Also, can someone explain what flexibility the Kings are saving so much cap space for? No offense, but Sacramento isn't going to be a FA destination anytime during the final two years of Leonard's contract, so I'm not exactly sure why taking on one extra year of salary from Shump's deal (who's arguably equally as useless as Meyers at this point in his career) is so damaging for the Kings where they wouldn't want an extra FRP and keep feeding the team with youth.

You read too much in to what I said. Of course the Kings would want a first. I just know that nobody would give them a first just to take an expiring.

Flexibility has been what Vlade has been preaching. Just because you and I don’t think the Kings are a marquee destination doesn’t mean Vlade doesn’t. He’s been saying this for a year now. He’s keeping the roster flexible for the 2019 offseason. That could be for trades and/or free agents. Who knows?! That is what fans are barking out. I’m trying to give you what we are being fed. What Vlade is thinking isn’t necessarily what fans are thinking.

Fair enough, its just sort of mindboggling. Like, the NBA model has been set for rebuilding teams. Teams in a situation like the Kings, where theyre still a solid 3-5 years away from even sniffing playoff contention, use their cap space to absorb salary in order to horde picks. On the Woj Podcast, Bobby Marks (iirc) and Woj talked about this and said the going market rate for a FRP is a team absorbing 10-14mil of salary.

I guess I just dont see how that deal harms much "flexibility" for the Kings either. I feel like on RealGM, that term of flexibility gets thrown around pretty liberally, particularly with regards to cap space, but in reality, the term flexibility is GM gibrish. It means nothing. Flexibility can be anything. Flexibility can mean signing a FA, it can mean making trades (lopsided deals included), it can mean absorbing salarys for picks, it can be resigning your own guys..... do you see what i mean? A lot of fans view that term in such a narrow light and give it way more weight than it deserves.

[kingjawn100]

Hypothetical trade offer i'll throw out. As kings fans would you agree to this draft day deal...

KINGS GET: KAWHI LEONARD, SAS 2019 1st ROUNDER (top 10 protected)
SPURS GET: BOGDAN BOGDANOVIC, SAC 2018 1st ROUNDER
*kawhi entering last year of contract

Very risky for a guy who more likely than not wouldn't re-sign in Sacramento and who has major health issues. But who knows... Kawhi isn't the type of guy who craves the limelight so maybe he'd embrace Sac. You look stupid if he walks after a year but this would be one of the rare chances the Kings have to become relevant again. Is there more of a Popovich type than Bogi?

Should Kawhi re-sign it would leave you with a core of FOX/BUDDY/KAWHI/SKAL/HARRYG/WCS. I love both Buddy and Bogi but they are essentially playing the same position and never play on the court together. Buddy's defense as a starter wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue if Kawhi is on the floor with him.

You can walk away from a deal like this with egg on your face but if you want to entirely change the culture this may be a deal i do. Especially if we end up picking 8 and are underwhelmed with the guys who'd be available there (as i am).

[jazanetti]

Hypothetical trade offer i'll throw out. As kings fans would you agree to this draft day deal...

KINGS GET: KAWHI LEONARD, SAS 2019 1st ROUNDER (top 10 protected)
SPURS GET: BOGDAN BOGDANOVIC, SAC 2018 1st ROUNDER
*kawhi entering last year of contract

Very risky for a guy who more likely than not wouldn't re-sign in Sacramento and who has major health issues. But who knows... Kawhi isn't the type of guy who craves the limelight so maybe he'd embrace Sac. You look stupid if he walks after a year but this would be one of the rare chances the Kings have to become relevant again. Is there more of a Popovich type than Bogi?

Should Kawhi re-sign it would leave you with a core of FOX/BUDDY/KAWHI/SKAL/HARRYG/WCS. I love both Buddy and Bogi but they are essentially playing the same position and never play on the court together. Buddy's defense as a starter wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue if Kawhi is on the floor with him.

You can walk away from a deal like this with egg on your face but if you want to entirely change the culture this may be a deal i do. Especially if we end up picking 8 and are underwhelmed with the guys who'd be available there (as i am).

If Pop and Buford will be that drunk, I'd agree even without SAS pick

[kalenclayton]

Hypothetical trade offer i'll throw out. As kings fans would you agree to this draft day deal...

KINGS GET: KAWHI LEONARD, SAS 2019 1st ROUNDER (top 10 protected)
SPURS GET: BOGDAN BOGDANOVIC, SAC 2018 1st ROUNDER
*kawhi entering last year of contract

Very risky for a guy who more likely than not wouldn't re-sign in Sacramento and who has major health issues. But who knows... Kawhi isn't the type of guy who craves the limelight so maybe he'd embrace Sac. You look stupid if he walks after a year but this would be one of the rare chances the Kings have to become relevant again. Is there more of a Popovich type than Bogi?

Should Kawhi re-sign it would leave you with a core of FOX/BUDDY/KAWHI/SKAL/HARRYG/WCS. I love both Buddy and Bogi but they are essentially playing the same position and never play on the court together. Buddy's defense as a starter wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue if Kawhi is on the floor with him.

You can walk away from a deal like this with egg on your face but if you want to entirely change the culture this may be a deal i do. Especially if we end up picking 8 and are underwhelmed with the guys who'd be available there (as i am).

If Pop and Buford will be that drunk, I'd agree even without SAS pick

Yeah, the Kings would absolutely say yes but this is more like a Popovich April Fools joke.

[kingjawn100]

I mean if they think he’s walking regardless in a year and have had enough of him...

Say the Kings finish 5...the return is Bogdanovic & Marvin Bagley in theory. Not a bad haul. With this probably being it for Parker and Ginobli they’ve gotta get younger at some point.

[kalenclayton]

I mean if they think he’s walking regardless in a year and have had enough of him...

Say the Kings finish 5...the return is Bogdanovic & Marvin Bagley in theory. Not a bad haul. With this probably being it for Parker and Ginobli they’ve gotta get younger at some point.

True, but I think they can get a better return elsewhere. The Kings would have to do the trade. It makes them a playoff contender immediately with the ability to get another banana with cap space. They also have the Spurs pick in 2019.

[codydaze]

Absolutely no chance on god's green earth does SA trade Kawhi for that package, let alone them adding a first round pick.