Rotation if the season started today

[kingjawn100]

Everyone is in love with the idea of Bjelica being able to play the 3 for us. My hope is that he'd be able to steal a few minutes at the 5 when necessary. That would allow us to put a ton of shooting on the floor in a lineup of say Fox-Buddy-Bogi-Justin-Bjelica. It seems less than ideal in terms of rebounding but there are some teams we're gonna play against who go equally as small at times (we're in a world where 6'6" PJ Tucker gets considerable minutes at the 5).

[Sactowndog]

That's the thing, the team is half built to play fast, and half built not to. Well lets say have of the rotation used last year isn't built that way. Honestly, the only young player I see having no competition for the starting gig is Fox. From there on I won't be surprised by any shenanigans.

My bet at the moment is Joerger will do whatever he wants and bring up such and such about practice, experience, yada yada yada. I would think looking at it the lineup will be Fox, Bogdan, Bjelica, Bagley, and Willie but who knows.

If by half you mean Z-Bo and Koufos, then I agree. But after drafting WCS, Giles, and Bagley over the last few years, one would expect these players to no longer be in the rotation. We have some of the most athletic bigs in the whole league. We've also expended a lot of our lottery picks on bigs. Our best chance as a team is to play fast.

Fast is one part of it but Smart is another. Smart players when paired with other IQ players have a 1+1 =3 effect. Giles, Bogi and Beli need to have at least 20 minutes in the floor as a group.

[dckingsfan]

Everyone is in love with the idea of Bjelica being able to play the 3 for us. My hope is that he'd be able to steal a few minutes at the 5 when necessary. That would allow us to put a ton of shooting on the floor in a lineup of say Fox-Buddy-Bogi-Justin-Bjelica. It seems less than ideal in terms of rebounding but there are some teams we're gonna play against who go equally as small at times (we're in a world where 6'6" PJ Tucker gets considerable minutes at the 5).

This!

In the modern NBA a Buddy-Bogi-Bjelica lineup is solid if you have a rim protector and an efficient PG to go with them and if you can have short runs where they are at the 3, 4, 5 - terrific.

Let WCS and Giles compete to get the minutes as the rim protector - and let them know that is their role.

Let Labissiere and Bagley compete for the backup minutes at the 4. Be willing to trade one of them for additional assets.

Randolph and Koufos shouldn't play - this is a development period - there real asset to the team is as 20M in expiring contracts (Shumpert and McLemore too).

And be willing to dump any of your expiring contracts for bad contracts and assets.

[Sactowndog]

Everyone is in love with the idea of Bjelica being able to play the 3 for us. My hope is that he'd be able to steal a few minutes at the 5 when necessary. That would allow us to put a ton of shooting on the floor in a lineup of say Fox-Buddy-Bogi-Justin-Bjelica. It seems less than ideal in terms of rebounding but there are some teams we're gonna play against who go equally as small at times (we're in a world where 6'6" PJ Tucker gets considerable minutes at the 5).

This!

In the modern NBA a Buddy-Bogi-Bjelica lineup is solid if you have a rim protector and an efficient PG to go with them and if you can have short runs where they are at the 3, 4, 5 - terrific.

Let WCS and Giles compete to get the minutes as the rim protector - and let them know that is their role.

Let Labissiere and Bagley compete for the backup minutes at the 4. Be willing to trade one of them for additional assets.

Randolph and Koufos shouldn't play - this is a development period - there real asset to the team is as 20M in expiring contracts (Shumpert and McLemore too).

And be willing to dump any of your expiring contracts for bad contracts and assets.

My concern in that lineup isn’t center.... it’s the efficient point guard in Fox....

So much of this year depends on him getting better at seeing the floor and getting the ball to shooters.

[dckingsfan]

Everyone is in love with the idea of Bjelica being able to play the 3 for us. My hope is that he'd be able to steal a few minutes at the 5 when necessary. That would allow us to put a ton of shooting on the floor in a lineup of say Fox-Buddy-Bogi-Justin-Bjelica. It seems less than ideal in terms of rebounding but there are some teams we're gonna play against who go equally as small at times (we're in a world where 6'6" PJ Tucker gets considerable minutes at the 5).

This!

In the modern NBA a Buddy-Bogi-Bjelica lineup is solid if you have a rim protector and an efficient PG to go with them and if you can have short runs where they are at the 3, 4, 5 - terrific.

Let WCS and Giles compete to get the minutes as the rim protector - and let them know that is their role.

Let Labissiere and Bagley compete for the backup minutes at the 4. Be willing to trade one of them for additional assets.

Randolph and Koufos shouldn't play - this is a development period - there real asset to the team is as 20M in expiring contracts (Shumpert and McLemore too).

And be willing to dump any of your expiring contracts for bad contracts and assets.

My concern in that lineup isn’t center.... it’s the efficient point guard in Fox....

So much of this year depends on him getting better at seeing the floor and getting the ball to shooters.

Agreed, and as I said in a previous post - nothing happens until Fox develops - and it might be two more years until he figures it out.

[bleeds_purple]

Everyone is in love with the idea of Bjelica being able to play the 3 for us. My hope is that he'd be able to steal a few minutes at the 5 when necessary. That would allow us to put a ton of shooting on the floor in a lineup of say Fox-Buddy-Bogi-Justin-Bjelica. It seems less than ideal in terms of rebounding but there are some teams we're gonna play against who go equally as small at times (we're in a world where 6'6" PJ Tucker gets considerable minutes at the 5).

That's the kind of lineup you trot out when you're down 8 with 90 seconds to go and you need to swing for the fences.

Tucker was beasting the boards in the WCF and GS is a **** rebounding team to begin with. That's why Houston could get away with running that.

[SacKingZZZ]

This!

In the modern NBA a Buddy-Bogi-Bjelica lineup is solid if you have a rim protector and an efficient PG to go with them and if you can have short runs where they are at the 3, 4, 5 - terrific.

Let WCS and Giles compete to get the minutes as the rim protector - and let them know that is their role.

Let Labissiere and Bagley compete for the backup minutes at the 4. Be willing to trade one of them for additional assets.

Randolph and Koufos shouldn't play - this is a development period - there real asset to the team is as 20M in expiring contracts (Shumpert and McLemore too).

And be willing to dump any of your expiring contracts for bad contracts and assets.

My concern in that lineup isn’t center.... it’s the efficient point guard in Fox....

So much of this year depends on him getting better at seeing the floor and getting the ball to shooters.

Agreed, and as I said in a previous post - nothing happens until Fox develops - and it might be two more years until he figures it out.

Or until his coach puts him in the right sets. With that lineup it's right there. You spread the floor run a pick and roll, let him drive, then dish out if there isn't a shot at the rim. I do believe quite a few players have made a decent career doing that. They threw a lot of complicated motion sets at them last year, now it's time to balance it out a bit with what they can do well. Spreading the floor is crucial and if summer league was any indication it might be a tough go early. This playing fast bit has hit full on so if they come out dragging up the rear in pace again some questions will have to be answered.

[Sactowndog]

My concern in that lineup isn’t center.... it’s the efficient point guard in Fox....

So much of this year depends on him getting better at seeing the floor and getting the ball to shooters.

Agreed, and as I said in a previous post - nothing happens until Fox develops - and it might be two more years until he figures it out.

Or until his coach puts him in the right sets. With that lineup it's right there. You spread the floor run a pick and roll, let him drive, then dish out if there isn't a shot at the rim. I do believe quite a few players have made a decent career doing that. They threw a lot of complicated motion sets at them last year, now it's time to balance it out a bit with what they can do well. Spreading the floor is crucial and if summer league was any indication it might be a tough go early. This playing fast bit has hit full on so if they come out dragging up the rear in pace again some questions will have to be answered.

Fox repeatedly drove to the hoop last year and forced contested shots instead of kicking it out to open 3 point shooters. He was a primary reason why the Kings were 28th in 3 point attempts.

[LightTheBeam]

Agreed, and as I said in a previous post - nothing happens until Fox develops - and it might be two more years until he figures it out.

Or until his coach puts him in the right sets. With that lineup it's right there. You spread the floor run a pick and roll, let him drive, then dish out if there isn't a shot at the rim. I do believe quite a few players have made a decent career doing that. They threw a lot of complicated motion sets at them last year, now it's time to balance it out a bit with what they can do well. Spreading the floor is crucial and if summer league was any indication it might be a tough go early. This playing fast bit has hit full on so if they come out dragging up the rear in pace again some questions will have to be answered.

Fox repeatedly drove to the hoop last year and forced contested shots instead of kicking it out to open 3 point shooters. He was a primary reason why the Kings were 28th in 3 point attempts.

Did you actually watch the games?

If so i'm not sure how anyone could come to that conclusion. The primary reason we were last in 3pt shooting is Joerger prefers dumping it into Randolph, WCS, Koufos, and Skal not stop.

[Sactowndog]

Or until his coach puts him in the right sets. With that lineup it's right there. You spread the floor run a pick and roll, let him drive, then dish out if there isn't a shot at the rim. I do believe quite a few players have made a decent career doing that. They threw a lot of complicated motion sets at them last year, now it's time to balance it out a bit with what they can do well. Spreading the floor is crucial and if summer league was any indication it might be a tough go early. This playing fast bit has hit full on so if they come out dragging up the rear in pace again some questions will have to be answered.

Fox repeatedly drove to the hoop last year and forced contested shots instead of kicking it out to open 3 point shooters. He was a primary reason why the Kings were 28th in 3 point attempts.

Did you actually watch the games?

If so i'm not sure how anyone could come to that conclusion. The primary reason we were last in 3pt shooting is Joerger prefers dumping it into Randolph, WCS, Koufos, and Skal not stop.

Yeah I watched almost every single game. Dumping it in isn’t bad if the posts can kick it back out. I agree our posts did not but they weren’t the teams point guard. I won’t say never but rarely did Fox touch the paint and kick the ball out to 3 point shooters. As the point guard of a team with the 3rd best 3 point shooting percentage, that’s really bad. Fox had horrible advanced stats and this point is one reason why.

[LightTheBeam]

Fox repeatedly drove to the hoop last year and forced contested shots instead of kicking it out to open 3 point shooters. He was a primary reason why the Kings were 28th in 3 point attempts.

Did you actually watch the games?

If so i'm not sure how anyone could come to that conclusion. The primary reason we were last in 3pt shooting is Joerger prefers dumping it into Randolph, WCS, Koufos, and Skal not stop.

Yeah I watched almost every single game. Dumping it in isn’t bad if the posts can kick it back out. I agree our posts did not but they weren’t the teams point guard. I won’t say never but rarely did Fox touch the paint and kick the ball out to 3 point shooters. As the point guard of a team with the 3rd best 3 point shooting percentage, that’s really bad. Fox had horrible advanced stats and this point is one reason why.

I mean he had a 25% assist rate. He had a 23% usage and he averaged 8 drives per game, on par with Fred Van Vleet. The shooters don't get spacing when you play Zbo/Koufos/WCS the entire game and clog the paint.

Horrible advanced stats doesn't really mean much for a rookie especially one in Fox's situation. He started on the bench, then played next to Hill, then took the lead guard spot, all the while constantly forced to play with slow puttering bigs instead of running the floor like we should have.

I anticipate a different Fox this year if he gets the chance to play with Giles/Bagley/WCS/Bjelica and we actually push the pace. Only time will tell how Joerger decides to use this roster.

[Sactowndog]

Did you actually watch the games?

If so i'm not sure how anyone could come to that conclusion. The primary reason we were last in 3pt shooting is Joerger prefers dumping it into Randolph, WCS, Koufos, and Skal not stop.

Yeah I watched almost every single game. Dumping it in isn’t bad if the posts can kick it back out. I agree our posts did not but they weren’t the teams point guard. I won’t say never but rarely did Fox touch the paint and kick the ball out to 3 point shooters. As the point guard of a team with the 3rd best 3 point shooting percentage, that’s really bad. Fox had horrible advanced stats and this point is one reason why.

I mean he had a 25% assist rate. He had a 23% usage and he averaged 8 drives per game, on par with Fred Van Vleet. The shooters don't get spacing when you play Zbo/Koufos/WCS the entire game and clog the paint.

Horrible advanced stats doesn't really mean much for a rookie especially one in Fox's situation. He started on the bench, then played next to Hill, then took the lead guard spot, all the while constantly forced to play with slow puttering bigs instead of running the floor like we should have.

I anticipate a different Fox this year if he gets the chance to play with Giles/Bagley/WCS/Bjelica and we actually push the pace. Only time will tell how Joerger decides to use this roster.

Pushing the pace isn’t the point. If you look at Bogi’s 3 point stats on NBA.com with Fox on and off the court you will see Bogi shoots about 10% points better because Fox collapses the defense. But you will also see Bogi’s attempts don’t change at all. That is just piss poor point guard play.

The data is there. Look it up.

[dckingsfan]

And, as the game slows down, PGs generally figure out how to hit the 3 point shooter - if they are going to figure it out. But the points previously correctly point to both a coaching and a player problem. Now, do they figure it out over the next two seasons?

[LightTheBeam]

Yeah I watched almost every single game. Dumping it in isn’t bad if the posts can kick it back out. I agree our posts did not but they weren’t the teams point guard. I won’t say never but rarely did Fox touch the paint and kick the ball out to 3 point shooters. As the point guard of a team with the 3rd best 3 point shooting percentage, that’s really bad. Fox had horrible advanced stats and this point is one reason why.

I mean he had a 25% assist rate. He had a 23% usage and he averaged 8 drives per game, on par with Fred Van Vleet. The shooters don't get spacing when you play Zbo/Koufos/WCS the entire game and clog the paint.

Horrible advanced stats doesn't really mean much for a rookie especially one in Fox's situation. He started on the bench, then played next to Hill, then took the lead guard spot, all the while constantly forced to play with slow puttering bigs instead of running the floor like we should have.

I anticipate a different Fox this year if he gets the chance to play with Giles/Bagley/WCS/Bjelica and we actually push the pace. Only time will tell how Joerger decides to use this roster.

Pushing the pace isn’t the point. If you look at Bogi’s 3 point stats on NBA.com with Fox on and off the court you will see Bogi shoots about 10% points better because Fox collapses the defense. But you will also see Bogi’s attempts don’t change at all. That is just piss poor point guard play.

The data is there. Look it up.

Don't you think that has to do with Foxs lack of 3pt shooting. Half of last year we played with 1 or 2 capable 3pt shooters on the floor. That isn't beneficial to a guy like Fox. Of course its much easier to stay home on a 3pt shooter when you play 3 in 2 out, especially when the entire league is playing 4 or 5 out right now.

[Sactowndog]

I mean he had a 25% assist rate. He had a 23% usage and he averaged 8 drives per game, on par with Fred Van Vleet. The shooters don't get spacing when you play Zbo/Koufos/WCS the entire game and clog the paint.

Horrible advanced stats doesn't really mean much for a rookie especially one in Fox's situation. He started on the bench, then played next to Hill, then took the lead guard spot, all the while constantly forced to play with slow puttering bigs instead of running the floor like we should have.

I anticipate a different Fox this year if he gets the chance to play with Giles/Bagley/WCS/Bjelica and we actually push the pace. Only time will tell how Joerger decides to use this roster.

Pushing the pace isn’t the point. If you look at Bogi’s 3 point stats on NBA.com with Fox on and off the court you will see Bogi shoots about 10% points better because Fox collapses the defense. But you will also see Bogi’s attempts don’t change at all. That is just piss poor point guard play.

The data is there. Look it up.

Don't you think that has to do with Foxs lack of 3pt shooting. Half of last year we played with 1 or 2 capable 3pt shooters on the floor. That isn't beneficial to a guy like Fox. Of course its much easier to stay home on a 3pt shooter when you play 3 in 2 out, especially when the entire league is playing 4 or 5 out right now.

Dude... the Kings shot the third highest 3 point percentage in the league!!! Our lack of attempts had nothing to do with Fox’s lack of 3 point shooting. It had everything to do with Fox’s inability ( and WCS’s) to kick the ball out to open shooters once they collapsed the defense. I can’t count the times Bogdan stood at the 3 point line, no one within 6 ft of him, screaming for the ball.

[LightTheBeam]

Pushing the pace isn’t the point. If you look at Bogi’s 3 point stats on NBA.com with Fox on and off the court you will see Bogi shoots about 10% points better because Fox collapses the defense. But you will also see Bogi’s attempts don’t change at all. That is just piss poor point guard play.

The data is there. Look it up.

Don't you think that has to do with Foxs lack of 3pt shooting. Half of last year we played with 1 or 2 capable 3pt shooters on the floor. That isn't beneficial to a guy like Fox. Of course its much easier to stay home on a 3pt shooter when you play 3 in 2 out, especially when the entire league is playing 4 or 5 out right now.

Dude... the Kings shot the third highest 3 point percentage in the league!!! Our lack of attempts had nothing to do with Fox’s lack of 3 point shooting. It had everything to do with Fox’s inability ( and WCS’s) to kick the ball out to open shooters once they collapsed the defense. I can’t count the times Bogdan stood at the 3 point line, no one within 6 ft of him, screaming for the ball.

The man averaged 8.4 drives a game and averaged 2.6 shots at the rim. Hes basically passing out 70% of the time. As you said, the stats are there. I can't blame the guy from driving into the paint and passing it out to a wide open JJ to hesitate on a shot or brick.

[LightTheBeam]

Another thing that amazes me, if you look at the analytics the lineups that features Buddy/Bogdan together had the most success.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2018/lineups/

Joerger needs to be fired ASAP. Enough about hearing those 2 cant co-exist on the floor. Its a **** joke if anyone believes that.

[Lost in LA]

Another thing that amazes me, if you look at the analytics the lineups that features Buddy/Bogdan together had the most success.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2018/lineups/

Joerger needs to be fired ASAP. Enough about hearing those 2 cant co-exist on the floor. Its a **** joke if anyone believes that.

This is the biggest problem the team has

[Sactowndog]

Don't you think that has to do with Foxs lack of 3pt shooting. Half of last year we played with 1 or 2 capable 3pt shooters on the floor. That isn't beneficial to a guy like Fox. Of course its much easier to stay home on a 3pt shooter when you play 3 in 2 out, especially when the entire league is playing 4 or 5 out right now.

Dude... the Kings shot the third highest 3 point percentage in the league!!! Our lack of attempts had nothing to do with Fox’s lack of 3 point shooting. It had everything to do with Fox’s inability ( and WCS’s) to kick the ball out to open shooters once they collapsed the defense. I can’t count the times Bogdan stood at the 3 point line, no one within 6 ft of him, screaming for the ball.

The man averaged 8.4 drives a game and averaged 2.6 shots at the rim. Hes basically passing out 70% of the time. As you said, the stats are there. I can't blame the guy from driving into the paint and passing it out to a wide open JJ to hesitate on a shot or brick.

Fox makes passes but he makes bad passes. That is why his assist to pass is only 8.6% versus most top point guards are in the 10% range.

Not sure where you get your pass numbers on drives.
http://stats.nba.com/players/drives/?sort=DRIVE_PASSES_PCT&dir=1

Fox only passes 28.3% of the time on drives for a grand total of 1 assist per game. By comparison Chris Paul and Ben Simmons are at 38% for 2 assists a game. Fox does however have a high number of turnovers at .6 a game.

If he were a super efficient scorer that would be one thing but his points per is 45.6% which is is the bottom half of the league. For comparison Kyrie Irving also only passes 26.4% and 1 assist a game but Kyrie’s points per is 68.5%.

There are real statistical reasons Fox didn’t make an all rookie team. He’s a bad player. Maybe he gets better but currently we have great shooters in Buddy, Beli and Bogi and an inefficient chucker at the point who fails to get them the ball.

[Sactowndog]

Another thing that amazes me, if you look at the analytics the lineups that features Buddy/Bogdan together had the most success.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2018/lineups/

Joerger needs to be fired ASAP. Enough about hearing those 2 cant co-exist on the floor. Its a **** joke if anyone believes that.

Who plays defense on the opposing point guard in that line up? If the opposing point guard is getting into the lane at will and unlike Fox knows what he is doing when he gets there.....

In some cases that line-up will work. If Ball is playing point for example Bogi can match up. But for others Bogi can’t.