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Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25)

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Re: Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25) 

Post#41 » by codydaze » Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:25 am

BoogieTime wrote:
codydaze wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
He really is


The only guy in the starting lineup who plays defense and gets iced out by all the other iso guys is not the problem. He got some offense going in the third and then was iced out again. No point guard on the roster to make sure everyone gets involved is not his fault.


He’s had a deterrent personality all season that goes in and out with O impact, though everything is discombobulated now


It's not going to get better because we don't have a PG. I'll ask again. Who do you want to take less shots? Monk/Lavine/Derozan combined for 57 shots, there is simply no room for someone else to get shots up when you have those guys in the lineup with gou.
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Re: Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25) 

Post#42 » by BoogieTime » Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:27 am

codydaze wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
codydaze wrote:
The only guy in the starting lineup who plays defense and gets iced out by all the other iso guys is not the problem. He got some offense going in the third and then was iced out again. No point guard on the roster to make sure everyone gets involved is not his fault.


He’s had a deterrent personality all season that goes in and out with O impact, though everything is discombobulated now


It's not going to get better because we don't have a PG. I'll ask again. Who do you want to take less shots? Monk/Lavine/Derozan combined for 57 shots, there is simply no room for someone else to get shots up when you have those guys in the lineup with gou.


If he were aggressive and commanding offense they would all take a tick less IMO

But he has been improving in efficiency at least
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Re: Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25) 

Post#43 » by LightTheBeam » Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:29 am

Leave my fantasy here. If vivek wasn't hell bent on adding lavine, could we not have instead of Chicago included Brooklyn?
Imagine if we flipped collins/huerter + Chicago 1st + spurs 1st for cam johnson and ziaire williams. And we could have kept tre jones

Sabonis/jval
Johnson/williams/lyles
Keegan/laravia
Derozan/Keon/carter
Monk/Tre jones

This feels like a team that could actually be solid instead of 3 iso ball guys playing with sabonis and Keegan being ignored 3 quarters every game.
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Re: Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25) 

Post#44 » by BoogieTime » Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:40 am

LightTheBeam wrote:Leave my fantasy here. If vivek wasn't hell bent on adding lavine, could we not have instead of Chicago included Brooklyn?
Imagine if we flipped collins/huerter + Chicago 1st + spurs 1st for cam johnson and ziaire williams. And we could have kept tre jones

Sabonis/jval
Johnson/williams/lyles
Keegan/laravia
Derozan/Keon/carter
Monk/Tre jones

This feels like a team that could actually be solid instead of 3 iso ball guys playing with sabonis and Keegan being ignored 3 quarters every game.


He was good in Chicago. How do you think he was playing there?

He was putting up Steph efficiency, and bulls fans were raving about his all around game

He has fallen off a cliff here so far… but hopefully it’s just a team switch
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Re: Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25) 

Post#45 » by LightTheBeam » Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:44 am

BoogieTime wrote:
LightTheBeam wrote:Leave my fantasy here. If vivek wasn't hell bent on adding lavine, could we not have instead of Chicago included Brooklyn?
Imagine if we flipped collins/huerter + Chicago 1st + spurs 1st for cam johnson and ziaire williams. And we could have kept tre jones

Sabonis/jval
Johnson/williams/lyles
Keegan/laravia
Derozan/Keon/carter
Monk/Tre jones

This feels like a team that could actually be solid instead of 3 iso ball guys playing with sabonis and Keegan being ignored 3 quarters every game.


He was good in Chicago. How do you think he was playing there?

He was putting up Steph efficiency, and bulls fans were raving about his all around game

He has fallen off a cliff here so far… but hopefully it’s just a team switch


Lavine has done this his entire career. He's a good player/bad team kind of player. He plays a brand of low iq AAU basketball. Chicago built a system around him and he was efficient but they sucked the entire time.

Hes not a winning basketball player. I'll die on that hill. Telegraphed iso player
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Re: Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25) 

Post#46 » by OxAndFox » Tue Feb 11, 2025 6:04 am

LightTheBeam wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
LightTheBeam wrote:Leave my fantasy here. If vivek wasn't hell bent on adding lavine, could we not have instead of Chicago included Brooklyn?
Imagine if we flipped collins/huerter + Chicago 1st + spurs 1st for cam johnson and ziaire williams. And we could have kept tre jones

Sabonis/jval
Johnson/williams/lyles
Keegan/laravia
Derozan/Keon/carter
Monk/Tre jones

This feels like a team that could actually be solid instead of 3 iso ball guys playing with sabonis and Keegan being ignored 3 quarters every game.


He was good in Chicago. How do you think he was playing there?

He was putting up Steph efficiency, and bulls fans were raving about his all around game

He has fallen off a cliff here so far… but hopefully it’s just a team switch


Lavine has done this his entire career. He's a good player/bad team kind of player. He plays a brand of low iq AAU basketball. Chicago built a system around him and he was efficient but they sucked the entire time.

Hes not a winning basketball player. I'll die on that hill. Telegraphed iso player


Don't think the crowd at the back heard you. Say it a little louder. Again everyone, no one was saying the 1st 2 games was THE problem. No 1 is saying the COLLECTION of players are bad. What everyone should realise is this collection of players IS HORRID. No we don't need to see it over next season. It's been proven to not work. What are we doing?
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Re: Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25) 

Post#47 » by LightTheBeam » Tue Feb 11, 2025 7:21 am

OxAndFox wrote:
LightTheBeam wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
He was good in Chicago. How do you think he was playing there?

He was putting up Steph efficiency, and bulls fans were raving about his all around game

He has fallen off a cliff here so far… but hopefully it’s just a team switch


Lavine has done this his entire career. He's a good player/bad team kind of player. He plays a brand of low iq AAU basketball. Chicago built a system around him and he was efficient but they sucked the entire time.

Hes not a winning basketball player. I'll die on that hill. Telegraphed iso player


Don't think the crowd at the back heard you. Say it a little louder. Again everyone, no one was saying the 1st 2 games was THE problem. No 1 is saying the COLLECTION of players are bad. What everyone should realise is this collection of players IS HORRID. No we don't need to see it over next season. It's been proven to not work. What are we doing?


Im convinced that vivek just wants to continue jacking up prices. Keeping the team around .500 with promises we could always be more.

He doesnt want the harsh reality of sucking for 2-3 years to really build something. Fox wants out, quick band aid.

You notice how we managed to duck the tax. And we still haven't signed anyone, just a random guy to a 10 day contract lol. As long as he gets his 12 million tax push back.
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Re: Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25) 

Post#48 » by BoogieTime » Tue Feb 11, 2025 8:34 pm

At least the starters were putting up +/- this game.. so lets start with that and add what the bench was doing against the Pels (who although have a bad record are obviously better than their record talent wise)

Mavs are obviously banged up, but I think some iteration of this team beat the Celtics a few games back without AD and somewhat inspired by the nonsense going around their org.

The Monk pg experiment though is obviously not where the team needs it, or where it appeared to be at different stages this season. Management thought the experiment needed a go though hence their moves at the deadline (not going after a pg replacement). Christie has a bit of work for him to work out the kinks
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Re: Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25) 

Post#49 » by BoogieTime » Tue Feb 11, 2025 11:52 pm

OxAndFox wrote:
LightTheBeam wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
He was good in Chicago. How do you think he was playing there?

He was putting up Steph efficiency, and bulls fans were raving about his all around game

He has fallen off a cliff here so far… but hopefully it’s just a team switch


Lavine has done this his entire career. He's a good player/bad team kind of player. He plays a brand of low iq AAU basketball. Chicago built a system around him and he was efficient but they sucked the entire time.

Hes not a winning basketball player. I'll die on that hill. Telegraphed iso player


Don't think the crowd at the back heard you. Say it a little louder. Again everyone, no one was saying the 1st 2 games was THE problem. No 1 is saying the COLLECTION of players are bad. What everyone should realise is this collection of players IS HORRID. No we don't need to see it over next season. It's been proven to not work. What are we doing?


ok.

This team was literally thrown together without practice or knowing the plays

The team doesn't need any "I told you so" crowd breathing down their necks, or creating trades.

It willl take a long time for equilibrium to be reached, reactions to problems being implemented etc.

After 4 games of barely being acquainted the most we can see are vague outlines of potential issues
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Re: Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25) 

Post#50 » by LightTheBeam » Wed Feb 12, 2025 5:56 am

BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:
LightTheBeam wrote:
Lavine has done this his entire career. He's a good player/bad team kind of player. He plays a brand of low iq AAU basketball. Chicago built a system around him and he was efficient but they sucked the entire time.

Hes not a winning basketball player. I'll die on that hill. Telegraphed iso player


Don't think the crowd at the back heard you. Say it a little louder. Again everyone, no one was saying the 1st 2 games was THE problem. No 1 is saying the COLLECTION of players are bad. What everyone should realise is this collection of players IS HORRID. No we don't need to see it over next season. It's been proven to not work. What are we doing?


ok.

This team was literally thrown together without practice or knowing the plays

The team doesn't need any "I told you so" crowd breathing down their necks, or creating trades.

It willl take a long time for equilibrium to be reached, reactions to problems being implemented etc.

After 4 games of barely being acquainted the most we can see are vague outlines of potential issues


Nothing vague about this.. very clear issues
Defense still sucks
We got older as a team
Monk-lavine-derozan are all redundant
Got more expensive short term
No lead facilitator. Monk is doing a terrible job since his buddy got traded

These aren't things that will magically fix. Lavine is 30. He isn't going to suddenly become a lock down 3&d guy. He's a iso ball bad shot maker. Same as derozan, same as monk.

We can play all the wishful thinking we want. The issues are obvious
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Re: Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25) 

Post#51 » by OxAndFox » Wed Feb 12, 2025 7:05 am

LightTheBeam wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:
Don't think the crowd at the back heard you. Say it a little louder. Again everyone, no one was saying the 1st 2 games was THE problem. No 1 is saying the COLLECTION of players are bad. What everyone should realise is this collection of players IS HORRID. No we don't need to see it over next season. It's been proven to not work. What are we doing?


ok.

This team was literally thrown together without practice or knowing the plays

The team doesn't need any "I told you so" crowd breathing down their necks, or creating trades.

It willl take a long time for equilibrium to be reached, reactions to problems being implemented etc.

After 4 games of barely being acquainted the most we can see are vague outlines of potential issues


Nothing vague about this.. very clear issues
Defense still sucks
We got older as a team
Monk-lavine-derozan are all redundant
Got more expensive short term
No lead facilitator. Monk is doing a terrible job since his buddy got traded

These aren't things that will magically fix. Lavine is 30. He isn't going to suddenly become a lock down 3&d guy. He's a iso ball bad shot maker. Same as derozan, same as monk.

We can play all the wishful thinking we want. The issues are obvious


And you know what compounds it? We now NEED a PG. The only way out of it is:
1 - Keep Monk as the PG and hope it's just teething pains of more responsibility. This COULD be true. I hope it is and Monk gets back to his best. I do have a theory on this too, but hey.
2 - Put Monk to the bench and have Lavine as PG. I mean sure, but that doesn't solve any of the issues we're talking about, just a better defensive unit by starting Keon which is a completely different thing all together.
3 - Devin Carter. Nope. Not only is he not ready, he doesn't seem to be a PG in the sense this team needs.
4 - Sign Starting PG In Off Season. Possible, but how are you fitting new PG, DDR, Lavine, Monk, Keon, Carter into enough minutes? Also you might want to wait that out because if you value LaRavia you MAY need your MLE.
5 - Trade For A PG. Huh? What in the world are we even doing now? Just a shambles if this is the thinking. Unless its 1 or 2 of Monk/Lavine/DDR/Carter going out for a PG then it doesn't make sense.
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Re: Game 53: Kings (26-26) @ Mavericks (28-25) 

Post#52 » by LightTheBeam » Wed Feb 12, 2025 7:55 am

OxAndFox wrote:
LightTheBeam wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
ok.

This team was literally thrown together without practice or knowing the plays

The team doesn't need any "I told you so" crowd breathing down their necks, or creating trades.

It willl take a long time for equilibrium to be reached, reactions to problems being implemented etc.

After 4 games of barely being acquainted the most we can see are vague outlines of potential issues


Nothing vague about this.. very clear issues
Defense still sucks
We got older as a team
Monk-lavine-derozan are all redundant
Got more expensive short term
No lead facilitator. Monk is doing a terrible job since his buddy got traded

These aren't things that will magically fix. Lavine is 30. He isn't going to suddenly become a lock down 3&d guy. He's a iso ball bad shot maker. Same as derozan, same as monk.

We can play all the wishful thinking we want. The issues are obvious


And you know what compounds it? We now NEED a PG. The only way out of it is:
1 - Keep Monk as the PG and hope it's just teething pains of more responsibility. This COULD be true. I hope it is and Monk gets back to his best. I do have a theory on this too, but hey.
2 - Put Monk to the bench and have Lavine as PG. I mean sure, but that doesn't solve any of the issues we're talking about, just a better defensive unit by starting Keon which is a completely different thing all together.
3 - Devin Carter. Nope. Not only is he not ready, he doesn't seem to be a PG in the sense this team needs.
4 - Sign Starting PG In Off Season. Possible, but how are you fitting new PG, DDR, Lavine, Monk, Keon, Carter into enough minutes? Also you might want to wait that out because if you value LaRavia you MAY need your MLE.
5 - Trade For A PG. Huh? What in the world are we even doing now? Just a shambles if this is the thinking. Unless its 1 or 2 of Monk/Lavine/DDR/Carter going out for a PG then it doesn't make sense.


I hope monk gets better as a point guard, but what made him special is he's kinda wild and unpredictable. It's great when he was on the bench and you didn't have to rely on him.

I think the answer long term is lavine and/or derozan have to go. Really Carter does also, keon is filling that role.

Sabonis/Jval
??
Keegan
Derozan or lavine/keon
??/monk

You could pick lavine over Monk or derozan, but based on what they give you vs cost, Monk/derozan is the obvious choice for that spot. However my personal opinion is it will be acceptable to move Derozan to a contender and move forward with the younger zach. And zach was your big fox replacement so you are kinda committed to him.

Laravia from my understanding cant be signed by us using the MLE.

So realistically you need to replace at minimum 1 starting forward + a pg in your top 8. You have lavine or derozan + extra picks + carter + MLE to do so.

Thats the best possible way to salvage this team. Gonna give examples but I know some may not like them.
1. Starting type pf. Miles bridges
2. Bigger starting pg who can run an offense. Spencer dinwiddie yuck (not many options)
3. Backup pf. Laravia?

Sabonis (32) /Jval (16)
Bridges(32) /Laravia (16)
Keegan (32) / lavine (16)
Lavine (14) /Keon (30) / monk (4)
Dinwiddie (24) /Monk (24)

People won't like this, but it's at least a bigger team that could be passable defensively and has defined roles.

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