Raptors Fan Here..

[KingInExile]

Calderon can't defend a lamp.

Then he will fit well next to Miller, who (according to Mitch) is as athletic as a lamp.

[mapko81]

As a Toronto Fan, this has been very enlightening. While the Raptors could use the toughness of Artest, I personally don

[mapko81]

I personally think Raptors would be crazy to give up either Calderon or Ford for Artest. Even assuming that Artest's behaviour issues don't crop up again, he is prone to selfishness on the court (taking stupid shots and hogging the ball). I wondered quite a few times during the season why the Kings (with all their talent) did not win, and I am positive Artest is the reason. No Artest team has ever been successful.

The Raptors have tried to build a team that focuses on passing, team play and good-attitude, character guys. Artest is a risk for blowing all that up. We had a bad experience with Vince, we cannot afford getting anything similar to that again. Artest is being a good boy now, he is playing for an extension, but God bless the team that gets stuck him for the next 5 years. As a Raptor fan I just pray to God its not us.

[mapko81]

With that said, I'd give up Ford in a second for John Salmons (hoping that he reneged on signing with Toronto over Sacramento b/c of playing time issues). Calderon is a keeper and I can't see us trading him unless we get something simply amazing in return. Jose is a pass-first, team-oriented guy who plays his heart out. Everybody wants that kind of PG on their team. I personally think he is untradeable.

[BMiller52]

I personally think Raptors would be crazy to give up either Calderon or Ford for Artest. Even assuming that Artest's behaviour issues don't crop up again, he is prone to selfishness on the court (taking stupid shots and hogging the ball). I wondered quite a few times during the season why the Kings (with all their talent) did not win, and I am positive Artest is the reason. No Artest team has ever been successful.

The Raptors have tried to build a team that focuses on passing, team play and good-attitude, character guys. Artest is a risk for blowing all that up. We had a bad experience with Vince, we cannot afford getting anything similar to that again. Artest is being a good boy now, he is playing for an extension, but God bless the team that gets stuck him for the next 5 years. As a Raptor fan I just pray to God its not us.

We had a win % of over .500 with Ron and like .340 or something without him so I'd say you're wrong that he's the reason we didn't win. You can have Salmons for Ford though.

[Bac2Basics]

Kings aren't getting Bosh......it's just not realistic.

With the package Sacramento would have to give up to get him, there wouldn't be much of anyone left to put him with.

[Cruel_Ruin]

As a Toronto Fan, this has been very enlightening. While the Raptors could use the toughness of Artest, I personally don

[mapko81]

-= original quote snipped =-



We had a win % of over .500 with Ron and like .340 or something without him so I'd say you're wrong that he's the reason we didn't win. You can have Salmons for Ford though.

Didn't Artest miss most of his games at the beginning and at the end of the season (when other guys were injured or when the team was tanking)? Your statistic might be misleading. You had him for most of 2006/2007 and the team finished well out of the playoffs, with Artest getting arrested for domestic abuse and cruelty towards animals. His value is at its highest right now and I do hope you can get something nice in a trade for him (the Kings have been my 2nd favourite NBA team since the Vlade Divac days), I just sincerely hope Toronto is not sucked into a desperate, risky move after failing to meet expectations this season. We have a 23-year old franchise player in Bosh who has leadership skills, a great attitude and good media skills. A guy like Artest could ruin his development, acquiring him could be catastrophic with the upside limited (in light of the fact he has never won anything and how he ruins a team's chemistry on offense with bad shots and ball-hogging).

[SacTown Kings]

-= original quote snipped =-



Didn't Artest miss most of his games at the beginning and at the end of the season (when other guys were injured or when the team was tanking)? Your statistic might be misleading. You had him for most of 2006/2007 and the team finished well out of the playoffs, with Artest getting arrested for domestic abuse and cruelty towards animals. His value is at its highest right now and I do hope you can get something nice in a trade for him (the Kings have been my 2nd favourite NBA team since the Vlade Divac days), I just sincerely hope Toronto is not sucked into a desperate, risky move after failing to meet expectations this season. We have a 23-year old franchise player in Bosh who has leadership skills, a great attitude and good media skills. A guy like Artest could ruin his development, acquiring him could be catastrophic with the upside limited (in light of the fact he has never won anything and how he ruins a team's chemistry on offense with bad shots and ball-hogging).

The games that Artest played in we had a winning % over 50%, the games that Artest missed due to suspension and injuries we were under the 38% or whatever it was. When we first got Artest we thought we had no shot at the playoffs then he led us to the playoffs which was an unbelievable feat since it looked like our season was over. The 06/07 season is more about Mussleman being totally ineffective than any of our players. So no it is very clear we are a better team with Artest than without him. And this year he has done a very good job on not forcing things like the prior year, he just needs to work on this in the last couple minutes of games.

Having said that I would be comfortable trading either Artest or Salmons for TJ Ford and a #1 pick. I know I am in the minority but I would rather gamble with TJ over Jose (he had a good year and I think it has overhyped his value). I would rather keep Artest but I believe management would rather keep Salmons. One of them must go though and getting a good point guard and a #1 pick is good compensation IMO. Even if it means we lose out on Beno, that's ok cause we can get a good pg with the 17th pick and we can use our MLE to help our frontcourt.

And if Toronto ever offers Bosh for Artest you do it!!. There really is nothing to think about. Not like that would ever happen, but come on folks let's get real here. Saying that Bosh would make you think about a trade is just silly. We went from trading Ron for guys like Magette, or Kleiza and a late first to "if they offer Bosh I'd have to think about it".

[KingInExile]

-= original quote snipped =-



The games that Artest played in we had a winning % over 50%, the games that Artest missed due to suspension and injuries we were under the 38% or whatever it was. When we first got Artest we thought we had no shot at the playoffs then he led us to the playoffs which was an unbelievable feat since it looked like our season was over. The 06/07 season is more about Mussleman being totally ineffective than any of our players. So no it is very clear we are a better team with Artest than without him. And this year he has done a very good job on not forcing things like the prior year, he just needs to work on this in the last couple minutes of games.

Having said that I would be comfortable trading either Artest or Salmons for TJ Ford and a #1 pick. I know I am in the minority but I would rather gamble with TJ over Jose (he had a good year and I think it has overhyped his value). I would rather keep Artest but I believe management would rather keep Salmons. One of them must go though and getting a good point guard and a #1 pick is good compensation IMO. Even if it means we lose out on Beno, that's ok cause we can get a good pg with the 17th pick and we can use our MLE to help our frontcourt.

And if Toronto ever offers Bosh for Artest you do it!!. There really is nothing to think about. Not like that would ever happen, but come on folks let's get real here. Saying that Bosh would make you think about a trade is just silly. We went from trading Ron for guys like Magette, or Kleiza and a late first to "if they offer Bosh I'd have to think about it".

You're taking my "think about it" with respect to Bosh a bit too literally. Yeah, obviously if Bosh is on the table for Artest then there is little to "think" about...you get the deal done quickly. I was merely pointing out that Bosh is the only player Toronto could send us that would make want to deal Artest to them.

[Bac2Basics]

-= original quote snipped =-
You're taking my "think about it" with respect to Bosh a bit too literally. Yeah, obviously if Bosh is on the table for Artest then there is little to "think" about...you get the deal done quickly. I was merely pointing out that Bosh is the only player Toronto could send us that would make want to deal Artest to them.

Bosh is the only player that Toronto currently has that is clearly better than Artest, but that doesn't mean that getting him or not, is the only way Sacramento & Toronto could make a good deal for both teams including Artest.

[KingInExile]

-= original quote snipped =-



Bosh is the only player that Toronto currently has that is clearly better than Artest, but that doesn't mean that getting him or not, is the only way Sacramento & Toronto could make a good deal for both teams including Artest.

Well I disagree and my opinion is the only one that is important

[SacTown Kings]

-= original quote snipped =-



Bosh is the only player that Toronto currently has that is clearly better than Artest, but that doesn't mean that getting him or not, is the only way Sacramento & Toronto could make a good deal for both teams including Artest.

I agree, I think that is why if an Artest trade did go down we would get a first round pick or we get expirings for KT or Shareef.

[Smills91]

-= original quote snipped =-


Well I disagree and my opinion is the only one that is important

What are you disagreeing with? Bosh > Artest for many reasons, but I could see Toronto putting together a pretty nice package to land Artest this summer. It could make a lot of sense using one of their PG's, a pick and maybe another prospect. I think the Kings could do really well for themselves by grabbing some young talent that could eventually be package with our expirings next year to move up and grab an upgrade a position of need at that time. GMing is a lot like chess, you need to position yourself to put your opponents in checkmate.

[KingInExile]

I'm just not interested in any of their PGs and have little interest in moving Artest to Toronto for anyone other than Bosh. I'm not all that eager to move him, simple as that, and their PGs do little to increase me level of interest.

[SacTown Kings]

I'm just not interested in any of their PGs and have little interest in moving Artest to Toronto for anyone other than Bosh. I'm not all that eager to move him, simple as that, and their PGs do little to increase me level of interest.

What if we dealt Salmons instead of Artest? Then would you? That would be pretty funny if Salmons did get traded to Toronto.

I think Toronto would go for either of them. I really don't care which one, but I don't really want to see Salmons and Artest both on the team this next year.

[KingInExile]

Salmons is more expendable IMO, so sure I would consider dealing him to Toronto. I'm also not above trading Artest...I just think we could do better than dealing him to Toronto for a PG.

[Bac2Basics]

-= original quote snipped =-
Well I disagree and my opinion is the only one that is important

People call me a homer with this guy rolling around

At this point, unless there's someone specific that Petrie's got targeted for next offseason, Smills made the point on another thread that at this point next year, KT & SAR become expirings along with Mikki Moore and a couple of others if I'm not mistaken. We'd have to take a big hit trading them at least until the trade deadline but probably all season. I'm still not totally opposed to the idea, but it's a valid point at this juncture in their contracts.

As far as the Artest/Salmons argument, I think Artest is the clear choice as far as that choice. I see Martin & Salmons being the starters with Garcia seeing significant minutes. I can see trading Salmons for the right situation though, but I'd still rather move Artest between the two.

As far as specifically Ford/Artest trade, there may be better trades out there but as I said before, I think this has the opportunity to be a positive deal for us depending on the package we're able to get in return.

[Smills91]

Salmons is more expendable IMO, so sure I would consider dealing him to Toronto. I'm also not above trading Artest...I just think we could do better than dealing him to Toronto for a PG.

I can agree with that.

My FAVORITE package is to deal Salmons/Williams/2nd for Ford or Calderon.

[dozencousins]

Ford is to injury prone he is not woth the risk !

I do not understand why some of you want him as bad as you do ?
He would be a great addition to our team if he was not injury prone so bad he just came off of one of the harsher type of injuries you can have for an nba player !

I dont see us trading for any of their point guards at all .

trading salmons,williams & a 2nd rounder is way,way to much for him

Petrie is easily a top 1-5 GM in the leauge but if he did that deal i would start a petition to have him fired !

lol