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Wolfay wrote:
It was still an insinuation that Evans has Oscar-like potential, otherwise there wouldn't have been any point to such a physical comparison.

The insinuation was on your part. There is 0% chance Evans ends up as good as Oscar Robertson, but there's a very high chance he ends up playing the same style. The point to compare styles is to explore whether the pieces on this roster fit his playing style.

The fact that you consider even the most remote of comparisons as "blasphemous" to legends is absurd.

It's very possible to say someone has the physical skills of someone without saying they have the skills of someone else. I could say that Gerald Green has the athleticisum of, say, Carmelo, without saying that Green has the shooting ability or skills.

Lightning Strike wrote:It's very possible to say someone has the physical skills of someone without saying they have the skills of someone else. I could say that Gerald Green has the athleticisum of, say, Carmelo, without saying that Green has the shooting ability or skills.

No, that's like comparing Sheldon Williams to Okafor or Adam Morrison to Larry Birtd

deNIEd wrote:

Lightning Strike wrote:It's very possible to say someone has the physical skills of someone without saying they have the skills of someone else. I could say that Gerald Green has the athleticisum of, say, Carmelo, without saying that Green has the shooting ability or skills.

No, that's like comparing Sheldon Williams to Okafor or Adam Morrison to Larry Birtd

A) Shelden's body type isn't even that similar to Okafor's, but more importantly...

B) Not when you clarify that you're talking about body types. It's a specific body type, and as long as its clear that that's the basis for the discussion, there is no reason to get your panties twisted. If Tyreke is somebody we're looking to build around, and we're trying to figure out how someone of his type would fit in with the team in the future. At no point in this thread has anybody gone "oh yeah! Tyreke=Oscar!!!" As long as you take a rational approach, and you clarify what you mean by a comparison, I don't see the problem.

Cruel_Ruin wrote:

Wolfay wrote:
It was still an insinuation that Evans has Oscar-like potential, otherwise there wouldn't have been any point to such a physical comparison.

The insinuation was on your part. There is 0% chance Evans ends up as good as Oscar Robertson, but there's a very high chance he ends up playing the same style. The point to compare styles is to explore whether the pieces on this roster fit his playing style.

The fact that you consider even the most remote of comparisons as "blasphemous" to legends is absurd.

How did "physical comparison" turn into "playing style", and what was Oscar Robertson's playing style anyway? Absolute domination of the game? I don't see the similarity, and to compare a guy who has yet to play an NBA game to a hall-of-famer and all-time great is indeed, blasphemy. Tyreke would be lucky to get even one triple-double in a season, let alone AVERAGE a triple-double in a season.

Tyreke really reminds me of a bigger Gary Payton. Payton used to abuse PG's inside and from the looks of it in summer league Tyreke can potentially do the same. I think his playmaking instincts are on track with Payton as well, not as good obviously but could be.

SacKingZZZ wrote:Tyreke really reminds me of a bigger Gary Payton. Payton used to abuse PG's inside and from the looks of it in summer league Tyreke can potentially do the same. I think his playmaking instincts are on track with Payton as well, not as good obviously but could be.

I would be ecstatic if Evans becomes a player like Payton. But IMO Payton was the better shooter, playmaker and defender when coming in as a rookie.

Look at Payton's number in his last year of college (NOTE: Payton was a senior)

25.7/4.7/8.7/3.4

Payton's first year in the NBA:

7.2/3.0/6.4/2.0

Not near as a prominent threat as in college in the NBA.

Well, Evans by far has the better physical attributes than Payton ever did. Evans is coming in as a 6'6'' 220+ point guard. Payton was coming in as a 6'4'' 170-180 point guard. And Evans was the better slasher and one on one abilities in general.

I think a more reasonable comparison is Michael Ray Richardson in terms of playing style. They have a very uncanny similarities in their playing style in general. I think even Evans' trainer did made this comparison as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgdyWZqTM3U

I still think Evans is going to have to really assert his physicality over his man, which is something Payton was excellent at. If I'm coaching Evans, I'm showing him tape of Payton.

Wolfay wrote:
How did "physical comparison" turn into "playing style", and what was Oscar Robertson's playing style anyway? Absolute domination of the game? I don't see the similarity, and to compare a guy who has yet to play an NBA game to a hall-of-famer and all-time great is indeed, blasphemy. Tyreke would be lucky to get even one triple-double in a season, let alone AVERAGE a triple-double in a season.

Why are you grasping at straws. I shouldn't have to spell this out for you like this.

Physically, Tyreke Evans is similar to Oscar Robertson. They stand the same height (6'5), the same weight (220), and have similar speed/leaping ability.

The point being that Evans can use Oscar's game as a kind of template to develop a playing style. When you evaluate a prospect and want to reasonably predict how well they fit in with a team, this is how it's done. In this case, Oscar was primarily a post up guard who ran the pick and roll. Sound familiar?

And no, it's not blasphemous to mention them in the same sentence. It's not blasphemous to say Greg Oden had better physical tools than Bill Russel. It's not blasphemous to say Demar Derozan jumps higher than Jordan. It's the skills that made these players great, not their athleticism or physical tools.

SacKingZZZ wrote:I still think Evans is going to have to really assert his physicality over his man, which is something Payton was excellent at. If I'm coaching Evans, I'm showing him tape of Payton.

Oh no. I wouldn't be against teaching Evans how Payton plays. I just contested your claim that Evans is a bigger Payton. Which I think it is inaccurate. But I don't know. I'm not that kind of person that discredit players projections and such though.

Cruel_Ruin wrote:

Wolfay wrote:
How did "physical comparison" turn into "playing style", and what was Oscar Robertson's playing style anyway? Absolute domination of the game? I don't see the similarity, and to compare a guy who has yet to play an NBA game to a hall-of-famer and all-time great is indeed, blasphemy. Tyreke would be lucky to get even one triple-double in a season, let alone AVERAGE a triple-double in a season.

Why are you grasping at straws. I shouldn't have to spell this out for you like this.

Physically, Tyreke Evans is similar to Oscar Robertson. They stand the same height (6'5), the same weight (220), and have similar speed/leaping ability.

The point being that Evans can use Oscar's game as a kind of template to develop a playing style. When you evaluate a prospect and want to reasonably predict how well they fit in with a team, this is how it's done. In this case, Oscar was primarily a post up guard who ran the pick and roll. Sound familiar?

And no, it's not blasphemous to mention them in the same sentence. It's not blasphemous to say Greg Oden had better physical tools than Bill Russel. It's not blasphemous to say Demar Derozan jumps higher than Jordan. It's the skills that made these players great, not their athleticism or physical tools.

I haven't seen Tyreke play much with his back to the basket like Oscar sometimes did, so no, it doesn't sound familiar. Tyreke depends on the crossover, which is pretty hard to do when you're facing the other direction. Tyreke looks like Oscar, but that's where it ends. You're the one whose grasping at straws. I haven't even heard of anyone else compare the two, but Tyreke was a finalist for the Oscar Robertson trophy though, so I guess I'll give you that.

Oscar Robertson was a special player and there's a chance we'll never seen anyone like that again. Not even MJ averaged a triple double, so you have to be careful when you mention his name.

Anyway, I'm done with this.

No, the comparison keeps going when you compare them physically. That's the main point here. Oscar and Tyreke had very similar bodies (in each case, very unique for the PG spot), both would be classified as "shoot first" PGs, and both are very good rebounders for their positions. Also, Oscar was an extremely efficient scorer for his time because he worked largely on the inside--likewise, Tyreke could get to the line a lot and become a similarly efficient scorer.

You can use the model of how teams have succeeded with Oscar as a way of looking at how the Kings could potentially utilize Tyreke. That's not saying he's as good, it's saying that he could be used in a similar fashion if he pans out.

And for what it's worth, Oscar is certainly an all-time great (arguably top 10), but his triple-double averaging season is a tad overrated as an accomplishment due to the breakneck pace at which they played in that era. Other players definitely would have also done that at that pace (Magic at least twice probably, Kidd, Lebron and Fat Lever all very possibly, and Payton, Bird, Pippen and a couple others maybe). So while we may never see that again, and it is absolutely an impressive feat, you do need to give it some context.

KF10 wrote:

Oh no. I wouldn't be against teaching Evans how Payton plays. I just contested your claim that Evans is a bigger Payton. Which I think it is inaccurate. But I don't know. I'm not that kind of person that discredit players projections and such though.

Evans is really the first player I've come across that is just almost impossible to really say he's like anyone else. I don't know if that's good or bad! hahaha. Is he Gary Payton 2.0? No. But he's going to bully guys out there like Payton did back in the day. I even see some of the same feel for the game as well. I don't think there's a perfect comparison for him, he just does certain things well, and will be good at certain things, I feel they will most likely relate back to his physical presence at the end of the day.