2023-24 General Thread

[Lost in LA]

Again, a situation not well handled. The Kings must have a playbook for mismanaging their business.

Brown didn't like him and it was obvious. I hope this does not mean he can't work with non traditional players, and show flexibility. The Kings went out of their way to get him, but clearly didn't do their homework. Sasha would have been perfect with a clever coach like Malone or Kidd who would be creative and could use him properly Injuries didn't help.

If 2023-4 was to be the year of refocus on defense, why sign him in the first place?

[LightTheBeam]

Again, a situation not well handled. The Kings must have a playbook for mismanaging their business.

Brown didn't like him and it was obvious. I hope this does not mean he can't work with non traditional players, and show flexibility. The Kings went out of their way to get him, but clearly didn't do their homework. Sasha would have been perfect with a clever coach like Malone or Kidd who would be creative and could use him properly Injuries didn't help.

If 2023-4 was to be the year of refocus on defense, why sign him in the first place?

Idk man, I don't think this is mismanagement. Micic felt the same way in OKC with Presti and that's a world class front office. These euro guys come here and get humbled very quickly and some can transition into a nice role player, others cant.

Look at Denver/Dallas, neither of them play a non-defender like Sasha who is slow and not athletic.

I'm really not all that surprised by this. Nor am I mad about it. My goal for this off-season is to clear out these slow guys who get picked on defensively. Huerter, Barnes, Sasha are 3 of those guys. We don't even need to replace them with stars, we just need mobile, athletic, 3&D types and our team will elevate. Look at Dallas, got rid of the junk and replaced with guys like Lively, DJJ, PJ washington, Gafford. None of them are superstars, they just all D up and play their role. Kings need to learn. Kidd would be having Sasha as DNP the whole playoffs, Denver the same. No doubt in my mind about that.

[BoogieTime]

Again, a situation not well handled. The Kings must have a playbook for mismanaging their business.

Brown didn't like him and it was obvious. I hope this does not mean he can't work with non traditional players, and show flexibility. The Kings went out of their way to get him, but clearly didn't do their homework. Sasha would have been perfect with a clever coach like Malone or Kidd who would be creative and could use him properly Injuries didn't help.

If 2023-4 was to be the year of refocus on defense, why sign him in the first place?

Idk man, I don't think this is mismanagement. Micic felt the same way in OKC with Presti and that's a world class front office. These euro guys come here and get humbled very quickly and some can transition into a nice role player, others cant.

Look at Denver/Dallas, neither of them play a non-defender like Sasha who is slow and not athletic.

I'm really not all that surprised by this. Nor am I mad about it. My goal for this off-season is to clear out these slow guys who get picked on defensively. Huerter, Barnes, Sasha are 3 of those guys. We don't even need to replace them with stars, we just need mobile, athletic, 3&D types and our team will elevate. Look at Dallas, got rid of the junk and replaced with guys like Lively, DJJ, PJ washington, Gafford. None of them are superstars, they just all D up and play their role. Kings need to learn. Kidd would be having Sasha as DNP the whole playoffs, Denver the same. No doubt in my mind about that.

Yes, a basketball coach who probably knows more bball than anyone on the board doesn't like him. Could just mean he isn't good, like some of the posters feel.

There were certain players like Ingles/Bjelica of that archetype who hit with Sasha's contract numbers, so I can see the Kings pursuit, but its hard to know for sure how someone will translate.

[OxAndFox]

Again, a situation not well handled. The Kings must have a playbook for mismanaging their business.

Brown didn't like him and it was obvious. I hope this does not mean he can't work with non traditional players, and show flexibility. The Kings went out of their way to get him, but clearly didn't do their homework. Sasha would have been perfect with a clever coach like Malone or Kidd who would be creative and could use him properly Injuries didn't help.

If 2023-4 was to be the year of refocus on defense, why sign him in the first place?

Idk man, I don't think this is mismanagement. Micic felt the same way in OKC with Presti and that's a world class front office. These euro guys come here and get humbled very quickly and some can transition into a nice role player, others cant.

Look at Denver/Dallas, neither of them play a non-defender like Sasha who is slow and not athletic.

I'm really not all that surprised by this. Nor am I mad about it. My goal for this off-season is to clear out these slow guys who get picked on defensively. Huerter, Barnes, Sasha are 3 of those guys. We don't even need to replace them with stars, we just need mobile, athletic, 3&D types and our team will elevate. Look at Dallas, got rid of the junk and replaced with guys like Lively, DJJ, PJ washington, Gafford. None of them are superstars, they just all D up and play their role. Kings need to learn. Kidd would be having Sasha as DNP the whole playoffs, Denver the same. No doubt in my mind about that.

The mismanagement came from the coach, not the front office.

I know they're superstars and it's different, but did you just say Dallas and Denver don't play a non-defender like Sasha who is slow and not athletic?

The thing with Sasha is when people say he didn't hit. Well, the stats paint it differently. If you feel the team needs defensive players in place of these guys then that is perfectly reasonable.
But why doesn't Lyles come up in these convos? He's a poor defender too, slow, unathletic, and was a larger net negative than Sasha, but let's even take it away from Sasha specifically.
Monk was a disaster on defence, yet nothing gets said about it. It's so bad that he is only just a positive player despite his amazing play on the offensive end.
Kessler Edwards was pretty damn good on D when he got more than the last few seconds, hit 38% of his 3s on low attempts, yet couldn't get off the bench. So is it really about D?
Kessler IS the mobile, athletic, 3&D type you're talking about.

How many times did you hear on the broadcast this coaching group loves deflections as a stat. Well, you know who tops out on this team with deflections? Keon Ellis and De'Aaron Fox. No shocks there. After that. Kevin Huerter and Sasha.

What Lost In LA said is bang on. If you wanted to refocus why sign him?
He was horrible on D to start out. But he did get A LOT better. Early on he was flopping instead of staying strong. He will always flop a little too much, but he did improve and that in itself allowed him to defend 1-1 half decently.
The ankle hampered him and IMO he is a guy that can't play through things and it was clear when he came back the 2nd time he was timid.

[OxAndFox]

For me, the watch is out on Mike Brown now. Can he handle players and put them in the right place to succeed? How much of the prior year's success was on Jay Triano and his offence?
So far he hasn't handled Davion Mitchell, Chris Duarte, Kevin Huerter and Sasha well. Its not just about defence.
The guy is a decent coach and absolutely deserved an extension. We all know that, but this past season and this off season has put up some red flags. There is a clear disconnect between the FO and the coach.

I know the conversation is about Sasha ATM, but I'm not suggesting the Kings HAVE to keep Sasha, he is replaceable, just like every player is.
But if it was about defence why aren't the Kings saying, well let's keep Kessler and insert him into the starting 5. Play him for 24-26mpg.
Barnes/Huerter/Monk can feast off the reserve units.
The Kings can't do that now because that would be a PR disaster when you're just basically running it back yet again.

Does anyone actually think Mike Brown plays Barnes off the bench?
IMO Keon Ellis is the starting 2 guard next season. The only way that changes is if Monk is back and he wants to start. Anyway, let's just say it's Ellis.
So you essentially have Fox/Ellis/Keegan/Sabonis as pretty much certain starters.
I just can't see Brown benching Barnes so that means he needs to be in a trade.

Kuzma/Grant/Ingram aren't needle movers on the defensive end like people keep harping on.
So who is the defensive PF that will protect the rim that is coming to save us?
IMO Fox/Ellis/Keegan is a very good defensive perimeter trio.
IMO Sabonis gets underrated on D overall and is quite good, he doesn't protect the rim, which is the main fine.

[OxAndFox]

I watch about 75 percent of the minutes, and? Who cares. Who needs to watch all the games or does on this board? People can watch one game of someone, or highlights of someone, like most national reporters, and have something to say about a player

And why couldn't I make the post you quoted? What was factually wrong? lol.

Why can someone not look at a boxscore and understand the traits of his team?

I didn't mean to just dismiss your stats

you put in some time, and I respect why you personally feel the way about Sasha statically.

but, per 36? I say that about Monk, but what about Colby's or Slawson's 36? Does Colby have the best per 36 on the team? Its a weird way to analyze with players who play few minutes

I agree that the likes of Colby/Slawson shouldn't be in it. Sasha is at 12.2mpg though. Please let me know what the threshold is.

[OxAndFox]

So if you're looking for rim protection the below is a list from a site that has the formula listed here. This formula was just the default when you go there, but you can change it around. Obviously, like with any stat, you need to use it with context etc.

The formula they used is:
Minutes Played > 500
Rim Attempts Defended Percent > 25%
Field Goal Percentage Difference < -5
Rim Attempts Defended Field Goal Percent < 55

1 - Bol Bol
2 - Zeke Nnaji
3 - Jonathan Isaac
4 - Peyton Watson
5 - Rudy Gobert
6 - Kristaps Porzingis
7 - Isaiah Stewart
8 - Walker Kessler
9 - Ivica Zubac
10 - Chet Holmgren
11 - Aaron Nesmith
12 - Victor Wembanyama
13 - Isaiah Hartenstein
14 - JaVale McGee

Len was #32 on this list and funnily enough Sasha Vezenkov was #36

[madskillz8]

After seeing his effort and improvement on defensive end, I blame the coach for failing to integrate Vezenkov into the rotation. In most games, his role in that particular game was depending on his first 1-2 shoots and Brown didn't give him chance (15+ mins) unless he started hot or it was a blowout. That's far from being a good strategy to handle a player, especially a shooter, like Vezenkov.

It is hard to look at his game log and say he got enough chances to prove himself:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vezenal01/gamelog/2024

He played 20+mins just 4 times, two of them are blowouts (even though Lyles missed so many games at the beginning of the season)

---------------------- FG. 3P.. FT.. R. PT.
vs LAC (-14) 24:27 5/7 3/5 0/0 5 13 +6
vs PHO (+8) 20:11 5/7 2/3 2/2 3 14 +5
vs LAC (-20) 20:00 4/7 1/3 0/0 3 9 +2
vs NOP (-33) 20:38 5/9 1/5 0/0 1 11 -24

Very small sample size but 63% FG and 44% 3PT are better than his Euroleague percentages - which is quite expected with more spacing...

[LightTheBeam]

For me, the watch is out on Mike Brown now. Can he handle players and put them in the right place to succeed? How much of the prior year's success was on Jay Triano and his offence?
So far he hasn't handled Davion Mitchell, Chris Duarte, Kevin Huerter and Sasha well. Its not just about defence.
The guy is a decent coach and absolutely deserved an extension. We all know that, but this past season and this off season has put up some red flags. There is a clear disconnect between the FO and the coach.

I know the conversation is about Sasha ATM, but I'm not suggesting the Kings HAVE to keep Sasha, he is replaceable, just like every player is.
But if it was about defence why aren't the Kings saying, well let's keep Kessler and insert him into the starting 5. Play him for 24-26mpg.
Barnes/Huerter/Monk can feast off the reserve units.
The Kings can't do that now because that would be a PR disaster when you're just basically running it back yet again.

Does anyone actually think Mike Brown plays Barnes off the bench?
IMO Keon Ellis is the starting 2 guard next season. The only way that changes is if Monk is back and he wants to start. Anyway, let's just say it's Ellis.
So you essentially have Fox/Ellis/Keegan/Sabonis as pretty much certain starters.
I just can't see Brown benching Barnes so that means he needs to be in a trade.

Kuzma/Grant/Ingram aren't needle movers on the defensive end like people keep harping on.
So who is the defensive PF that will protect the rim that is coming to save us?
IMO Fox/Ellis/Keegan is a very good defensive perimeter trio.
IMO Sabonis gets underrated on D overall and is quite good, he doesn't protect the rim, which is the main fine.

Idk man, I think you may be overthinking Sasha due to personal bias (i've been there many times, had a Ben McLemore Jersey, my twitter handle had Greene for Donte in it lol).

You are right that Barnes shouldn't be starting. The thing about Barnes is hes a seasoned vet who has years of experience and while we didn't see it this year, in the past he's been a stabilizer of sorts for Sac. A guy who could get you a bucket or fts when you needed to stop a momentum swing. Also his defense took a big step back this year, but in the past he was a capable defender. I think it's tough to just bench a guy like that for Lyles/Kessler even though I was in favor of that decision.

As for Grant/Kuzma (not ingram), neither is a world beater boston level defender, but compared to Barnes its a night and day difference. I don't think we realize how often Barnes gets burned letting his defender blow right by him forcing help and then wide open 3s. It's multiple times a game. I think with Huerter/Barnes neither is worst defender in the league, but neither are good, and replacing them with decent-above average defenders will make a significant difference. More on this in my next point -

As for Sabonis, he's a solid man defender but offers nothing on help defense. He doesn't contest shots, he bodies guys. That's why it's even more important not to have any minus defenders on the team. If you have Gobert, then Barnes/Huerter are fine. If Barnes man blows by him, you have Gobert waiting to help. We don't have that in any form or fashion.

Our perimeter defense is in a fantastic spot, we need someone who can help Sabonis rebounding/defensively. When Sabonis gets pulled out to the perimiter watching Barnes and his 3rbs / .1 blocks per game is pathetic. Grant isn't the rebounder Kuzma is, but he's a capable weakside shot blocker.

And make no mistake, I'm not a supporter of either Grant/Kuzma, but they are without a doubt better than Barnes and will make an impact. I'm not even opposed to getting either of them, I'm opposed to the cost I think its going to take. It just sucks we don't have some extra firsts from all our years of being terrible, that would make this type of a trade way easier. I've come around a bit on Kuzma/26 for Barnes/13. If the draft is as flat as they are saying, well at least we will have a dart throw at the end of the first to hopefully hit on a bench wing.

With it in mind these are our options, I'll roll with Kuzma.
Kuzma
24- 23.5
25 - 21.5
26 - 19.4

Grant
24 - 29.7
25 - 32
26 - 34
27 - 36.4

Looking at this I'm pretty much all the way out on Grant. Can't imagine he ever lives up to this salary. But Kuzma is probably paid pretty fairly. I preferred him over Barnes in FA.

[OGSactownballer]

No he didn't. Let's be realistic here FFS.
The entire Kings brass went over and practically begged him to come over. They knew what he is and was. Yet they still put everything in, then Brown changes from an all out offense which is fine. Sasha proves he can hang on the defensive end and still gets glued to the bench.

The proof was in the pudding that his best games come against the best opposition. I wonder if some of the other players got glued to the bench being far worse defenders than he and Huerter, yet it never gets mentioned. HMMM.

Best defenders in what regard? He's a big who sure as hell isn't covering the pain/protecting the rim.

What are you talking about? No one has ever said, nor will they ever say, he was one of the best defenders.
I mean I know you don't watch the games, or the ones you do you've turned off by the time he gets in, but I don't think you know who Sasha Vezenkov is.
He's a big who sure as hell isn't covering the paint/protecting the rim.

We all know, well the ones that watch, know he is slow footed and that does hurt him on the defensive end. What he lacks there he absolutely makes up for with being a smart team defender.
DPM was right there with Lyles and ahead of Monk, Mitchell and Barnes.
Seeing as you like your per 36.
Offensively comes out just behind Keegan and ahead of Barnes, Huerter, Lyles, Mitchell, Duarte and Ellis. Not really great, but he offers some things that these guys don't.
He had the best TOV% on the team for players over 10 minutes per game.
Was 3rd in STL%, 3rd in ORB%, 3rd in DRB%, Equal 5th with Keegan for TS%, 4th in per which he was below average, which says something about the guys getting the minutes.

The major thing was Lyles playing 82% of his time at PF, where Sasha played 64%. This was absolutely terrible coaching by Brown. It was one of only a few things that he was terrible at this season IMO.
Lyles has and had proven to be an effective small ball 5, yet he hardly played it. That's extremely poor coaching, but that's another topic in itself.

See things all what I saw (the numbers) and is just one more further proof to me that Mike Briwn is NOT a great coach. A good one. And a lucky one. But definitely not great and realistically just above middle of the pack overall - which is coincidentally where the team falls.

[OGSactownballer]

Again, a situation not well handled. The Kings must have a playbook for mismanaging their business.

Brown didn't like him and it was obvious. I hope this does not mean he can't work with non traditional players, and show flexibility. The Kings went out of their way to get him, but clearly didn't do their homework. Sasha would have been perfect with a clever coach like Malone or Kidd who would be creative and could use him properly Injuries didn't help.

If 2023-4 was to be the year of refocus on defense, why sign him in the first place?

All of this.

And yet more ammunition for me that Mike Brown was a very poor choice to re up as coach.

His ass started showing this year in this type of stuff with horrible player mismanagement and scheming that was wrong for the personnel he was given. What happens next?

[LightTheBeam]

Best defenders in what regard? He's a big who sure as hell isn't covering the pain/protecting the rim.

What are you talking about? No one has ever said, nor will they ever say, he was one of the best defenders.
I mean I know you don't watch the games, or the ones you do you've turned off by the time he gets in, but I don't think you know who Sasha Vezenkov is.
He's a big who sure as hell isn't covering the paint/protecting the rim.

We all know, well the ones that watch, know he is slow footed and that does hurt him on the defensive end. What he lacks there he absolutely makes up for with being a smart team defender.
DPM was right there with Lyles and ahead of Monk, Mitchell and Barnes.
Seeing as you like your per 36.
Offensively comes out just behind Keegan and ahead of Barnes, Huerter, Lyles, Mitchell, Duarte and Ellis. Not really great, but he offers some things that these guys don't.
He had the best TOV% on the team for players over 10 minutes per game.
Was 3rd in STL%, 3rd in ORB%, 3rd in DRB%, Equal 5th with Keegan for TS%, 4th in per which he was below average, which says something about the guys getting the minutes.

The major thing was Lyles playing 82% of his time at PF, where Sasha played 64%. This was absolutely terrible coaching by Brown. It was one of only a few things that he was terrible at this season IMO.
Lyles has and had proven to be an effective small ball 5, yet he hardly played it. That's extremely poor coaching, but that's another topic in itself.

See things all what I saw (the numbers) and is just one more further proof to me that Mike Briwn is NOT a great coach. A good one. And a lucky one. But definitely not great and realistically just above middle of the pack overall - which is coincidentally where the team falls.

Well that's one thing Kings fans need to realize. After 17 years of trash, the team is comfortable just being good for awhile. And honestly it's really hard to blame them, but all of the moves they made were safe risk adverse moves. Think about it.

Drafting 23 year old Davion
Signing Journey man coach Mike Brown instead of a young unknown
Trading higher risk Hali for the safe Sabonis
Re-upping Sabonis early instead of using the cap space to take a risk improving
Drafting 22 year old Keegan Murray instead of at the time the perceived higher upside options like Ivey/Sharpe
Trading a draft pick with 4 years of slowly declining protection for Huerter
Re-upping Barnes

Even the 2nd rounders like Colby, Slawson, Woodard, Keon were all significantly older than most rookies ranging from 21-23 years old.

The team is absolutely playing it safe. Have a 5-7 year run with Fox/Sabonis/Keegan/Brown being good enough to make the playoffs. IMO it's like the early Lillard Blazers style run. Win 40-55 games, maybe luck into a WCF if everything goes right one year. Won't be 100% awful, but won't be a real contender. And Sabonis is the ultimate floor raiser so he's the perfect guy for that.

[OxAndFox]

For me, the watch is out on Mike Brown now. Can he handle players and put them in the right place to succeed? How much of the prior year's success was on Jay Triano and his offence?
So far he hasn't handled Davion Mitchell, Chris Duarte, Kevin Huerter and Sasha well. Its not just about defence.
The guy is a decent coach and absolutely deserved an extension. We all know that, but this past season and this off season has put up some red flags. There is a clear disconnect between the FO and the coach.

I know the conversation is about Sasha ATM, but I'm not suggesting the Kings HAVE to keep Sasha, he is replaceable, just like every player is.
But if it was about defence why aren't the Kings saying, well let's keep Kessler and insert him into the starting 5. Play him for 24-26mpg.
Barnes/Huerter/Monk can feast off the reserve units.
The Kings can't do that now because that would be a PR disaster when you're just basically running it back yet again.

Does anyone actually think Mike Brown plays Barnes off the bench?
IMO Keon Ellis is the starting 2 guard next season. The only way that changes is if Monk is back and he wants to start. Anyway, let's just say it's Ellis.
So you essentially have Fox/Ellis/Keegan/Sabonis as pretty much certain starters.
I just can't see Brown benching Barnes so that means he needs to be in a trade.

Kuzma/Grant/Ingram aren't needle movers on the defensive end like people keep harping on.
So who is the defensive PF that will protect the rim that is coming to save us?
IMO Fox/Ellis/Keegan is a very good defensive perimeter trio.
IMO Sabonis gets underrated on D overall and is quite good, he doesn't protect the rim, which is the main fine.

Idk man, I think you may be overthinking Sasha due to personal bias (i've been there many times, had a Ben McLemore Jersey, my twitter handle had Greene for Donte in it lol).

You are right that Barnes shouldn't be starting. The thing about Barnes is hes a seasoned vet who has years of experience and while we didn't see it this year, in the past he's been a stabilizer of sorts for Sac. A guy who could get you a bucket or fts when you needed to stop a momentum swing. Also his defense took a big step back this year, but in the past he was a capable defender. I think it's tough to just bench a guy like that for Lyles/Kessler even though I was in favor of that decision.

As for Grant/Kuzma (not ingram), neither is a world beater boston level defender, but compared to Barnes its a night and day difference. I don't think we realize how often Barnes gets burned letting his defender blow right by him forcing help and then wide open 3s. It's multiple times a game. I think with Huerter/Barnes neither is worst defender in the league, but neither are good, and replacing them with decent-above average defenders will make a significant difference. More on this in my next point -

As for Sabonis, he's a solid man defender but offers nothing on help defense. He doesn't contest shots, he bodies guys. That's why it's even more important not to have any minus defenders on the team. If you have Gobert, then Barnes/Huerter are fine. If Barnes man blows by him, you have Gobert waiting to help. We don't have that in any form or fashion.

Our perimeter defense is in a fantastic spot, we need someone who can help Sabonis rebounding/defensively. When Sabonis gets pulled out to the perimiter watching Barnes and his 3rbs / .1 blocks per game is pathetic. Grant isn't the rebounder Kuzma is, but he's a capable weakside shot blocker.

And make no mistake, I'm not a supporter of either Grant/Kuzma, but they are without a doubt better than Barnes and will make an impact. I'm not even opposed to getting either of them, I'm opposed to the cost I think its going to take. It just sucks we don't have some extra firsts from all our years of being terrible, that would make this type of a trade way easier. I've come around a bit on Kuzma/26 for Barnes/13. If the draft is as flat as they are saying, well at least we will have a dart throw at the end of the first to hopefully hit on a bench wing.

With it in mind these are our options, I'll roll with Kuzma.
Kuzma
24- 23.5
25 - 21.5
26 - 19.4

Grant
24 - 29.7
25 - 32
26 - 34
27 - 36.4

Looking at this I'm pretty much all the way out on Grant. Can't imagine he ever lives up to this salary. But Kuzma is probably paid pretty fairly. I preferred him over Barnes in FA.

Excellent post.
Yes I have a bias for Sasha, because I know what he can do if he gets a chance and how that specific archetype of player can transform this team.

Explain something to me. What exactly did the Kings think they were getting with Sasha? They watched him A LOT and they still signed him. He came in late because of commitments overseas and was thrust into a training camp after being in a different country for mere weeks. Was slow on D and took a while to get rid of some euro tendencies. Despite that he was still a plus player early in the season. But he did improve a lot on that end, he is never going to be lock down, or even a good defender, but once he started picking up the physicality he did well. Then, all of a sudden he goes to a situational offensive guy that comes in for the last few seconds and then stays in the game for a few minutes the following quarter. Anyway, I don't blame anyone for thinking differently about this, I just hope he stays in the NBA and gets to play for a coach who puts him in a position to succeed rather than one to fail.

[OxAndFox]

It's just not about D.

Defensive rating Oct/Nov
Fox = 114/119
Sabonis = 108/115
Monk = 118/117
Keegan = 110/114
Lyles = 119/118
Sasha = 112/118

Defensive rating Dec
Fox = 117
Sabonis = 115
Monk = 121
Keegan = 119
Lyles = 118
Sasha = 118

Then late December everything changes after a blowout loss to the 2024 NBA champion Boston Celtics by 25 points. Sasha was a +1 in 13 mins 3 pts, 3 rebs on just 1/5 shooting. Who else was scapegoated for getting blown out by the Celtics?

Brown decides to play him 6 minutes in a blow out win v Phoenix. 7 mins in a blow out loss v Wolves. 9 mins v Portland. Then a DNP, 3 mins v Memphis, DNP, DNP, DNP, then decides to play him 20 mins v NOP which was a blowout loss and scores 11 points on 5/9 shooting, followed by DNP, DNP, 8 mins v Phi (5 offensive boards), 6 mins v Mil and then bam, 17 mins vs Phoenix (14 points), 10 mins v Ind (7pts, 3reb) and then in the next game he got hurt (6 mins v Atl - 8 points, 2 rebs).

[LightTheBeam]

For me, the watch is out on Mike Brown now. Can he handle players and put them in the right place to succeed? How much of the prior year's success was on Jay Triano and his offence?
So far he hasn't handled Davion Mitchell, Chris Duarte, Kevin Huerter and Sasha well. Its not just about defence.
The guy is a decent coach and absolutely deserved an extension. We all know that, but this past season and this off season has put up some red flags. There is a clear disconnect between the FO and the coach.

I know the conversation is about Sasha ATM, but I'm not suggesting the Kings HAVE to keep Sasha, he is replaceable, just like every player is.
But if it was about defence why aren't the Kings saying, well let's keep Kessler and insert him into the starting 5. Play him for 24-26mpg.
Barnes/Huerter/Monk can feast off the reserve units.
The Kings can't do that now because that would be a PR disaster when you're just basically running it back yet again.

Does anyone actually think Mike Brown plays Barnes off the bench?
IMO Keon Ellis is the starting 2 guard next season. The only way that changes is if Monk is back and he wants to start. Anyway, let's just say it's Ellis.
So you essentially have Fox/Ellis/Keegan/Sabonis as pretty much certain starters.
I just can't see Brown benching Barnes so that means he needs to be in a trade.

Kuzma/Grant/Ingram aren't needle movers on the defensive end like people keep harping on.
So who is the defensive PF that will protect the rim that is coming to save us?
IMO Fox/Ellis/Keegan is a very good defensive perimeter trio.
IMO Sabonis gets underrated on D overall and is quite good, he doesn't protect the rim, which is the main fine.

Idk man, I think you may be overthinking Sasha due to personal bias (i've been there many times, had a Ben McLemore Jersey, my twitter handle had Greene for Donte in it lol).

You are right that Barnes shouldn't be starting. The thing about Barnes is hes a seasoned vet who has years of experience and while we didn't see it this year, in the past he's been a stabilizer of sorts for Sac. A guy who could get you a bucket or fts when you needed to stop a momentum swing. Also his defense took a big step back this year, but in the past he was a capable defender. I think it's tough to just bench a guy like that for Lyles/Kessler even though I was in favor of that decision.

As for Grant/Kuzma (not ingram), neither is a world beater boston level defender, but compared to Barnes its a night and day difference. I don't think we realize how often Barnes gets burned letting his defender blow right by him forcing help and then wide open 3s. It's multiple times a game. I think with Huerter/Barnes neither is worst defender in the league, but neither are good, and replacing them with decent-above average defenders will make a significant difference. More on this in my next point -

As for Sabonis, he's a solid man defender but offers nothing on help defense. He doesn't contest shots, he bodies guys. That's why it's even more important not to have any minus defenders on the team. If you have Gobert, then Barnes/Huerter are fine. If Barnes man blows by him, you have Gobert waiting to help. We don't have that in any form or fashion.

Our perimeter defense is in a fantastic spot, we need someone who can help Sabonis rebounding/defensively. When Sabonis gets pulled out to the perimiter watching Barnes and his 3rbs / .1 blocks per game is pathetic. Grant isn't the rebounder Kuzma is, but he's a capable weakside shot blocker.

And make no mistake, I'm not a supporter of either Grant/Kuzma, but they are without a doubt better than Barnes and will make an impact. I'm not even opposed to getting either of them, I'm opposed to the cost I think its going to take. It just sucks we don't have some extra firsts from all our years of being terrible, that would make this type of a trade way easier. I've come around a bit on Kuzma/26 for Barnes/13. If the draft is as flat as they are saying, well at least we will have a dart throw at the end of the first to hopefully hit on a bench wing.

With it in mind these are our options, I'll roll with Kuzma.
Kuzma
24- 23.5
25 - 21.5
26 - 19.4

Grant
24 - 29.7
25 - 32
26 - 34
27 - 36.4

Looking at this I'm pretty much all the way out on Grant. Can't imagine he ever lives up to this salary. But Kuzma is probably paid pretty fairly. I preferred him over Barnes in FA.

Excellent post.
Yes I have a bias for Sasha, because I know what he can do if he gets a chance and how that specific archetype of player can transform this team.

Explain something to me. What exactly did the Kings think they were getting with Sasha? They watched him A LOT and they still signed him. He came in late because of commitments overseas and was thrust into a training camp after being in a different country for mere weeks. Was slow on D and took a while to get rid of some euro tendencies. Despite that he was still a plus player early in the season. But he did improve a lot on that end, he is never going to be lock down, or even a good defender, but once he started picking up the physicality he did well. Then, all of a sudden he goes to a situational offensive guy that comes in for the last few seconds and then stays in the game for a few minutes the following quarter. Anyway, I don't blame anyone for thinking differently about this, I just hope he stays in the NBA and gets to play for a coach who puts him in a position to succeed rather than one to fail.

This is a whole other point that I agree with. You knew what you were getting and still went and did it..

I'll make you mad lol, but you can go back and read my posts from last offseason. I despised our entire offseason, I haven't been that doom in years. From using money on Sasha, reupping sabonis/barnes, trading our pick. It was disgusting. The only thing I believed in was resigning Lyles.

But it was pretty clear to me then that Sasha wasn't a need. Lyles plays his role and does it well at a great price. When you have lyles your backup 4 spot is in real good shape imo.

The only thing I can think of is they thought let's see if we strike lighting in a bottle with Sasha out the gate. They didn't feel that way so they went with Lyles.

And fwiw I agree with Sasha. We talked about this a few weeks ago, but Mike's rotations were pathetic. Fox, huerter, keegan, Barnes, sabonis, monk.. the rest of the team had no idea if they would play that night. So inconsistent never giving anyone a chance to get into rythym. Finally they stuck with davion and keon at 2 instead of 1, and both guys started to take off. Maybe we woulda seen the same with Sasha but we will never know.

[BoogieTime]

Idk man, I think you may be overthinking Sasha due to personal bias (i've been there many times, had a Ben McLemore Jersey, my twitter handle had Greene for Donte in it lol).

You are right that Barnes shouldn't be starting. The thing about Barnes is hes a seasoned vet who has years of experience and while we didn't see it this year, in the past he's been a stabilizer of sorts for Sac. A guy who could get you a bucket or fts when you needed to stop a momentum swing. Also his defense took a big step back this year, but in the past he was a capable defender. I think it's tough to just bench a guy like that for Lyles/Kessler even though I was in favor of that decision.

As for Grant/Kuzma (not ingram), neither is a world beater boston level defender, but compared to Barnes its a night and day difference. I don't think we realize how often Barnes gets burned letting his defender blow right by him forcing help and then wide open 3s. It's multiple times a game. I think with Huerter/Barnes neither is worst defender in the league, but neither are good, and replacing them with decent-above average defenders will make a significant difference. More on this in my next point -

As for Sabonis, he's a solid man defender but offers nothing on help defense. He doesn't contest shots, he bodies guys. That's why it's even more important not to have any minus defenders on the team. If you have Gobert, then Barnes/Huerter are fine. If Barnes man blows by him, you have Gobert waiting to help. We don't have that in any form or fashion.

Our perimeter defense is in a fantastic spot, we need someone who can help Sabonis rebounding/defensively. When Sabonis gets pulled out to the perimiter watching Barnes and his 3rbs / .1 blocks per game is pathetic. Grant isn't the rebounder Kuzma is, but he's a capable weakside shot blocker.

And make no mistake, I'm not a supporter of either Grant/Kuzma, but they are without a doubt better than Barnes and will make an impact. I'm not even opposed to getting either of them, I'm opposed to the cost I think its going to take. It just sucks we don't have some extra firsts from all our years of being terrible, that would make this type of a trade way easier. I've come around a bit on Kuzma/26 for Barnes/13. If the draft is as flat as they are saying, well at least we will have a dart throw at the end of the first to hopefully hit on a bench wing.

With it in mind these are our options, I'll roll with Kuzma.
Kuzma
24- 23.5
25 - 21.5
26 - 19.4

Grant
24 - 29.7
25 - 32
26 - 34
27 - 36.4

Looking at this I'm pretty much all the way out on Grant. Can't imagine he ever lives up to this salary. But Kuzma is probably paid pretty fairly. I preferred him over Barnes in FA.

Excellent post.
Yes I have a bias for Sasha, because I know what he can do if he gets a chance and how that specific archetype of player can transform this team.

Explain something to me. What exactly did the Kings think they were getting with Sasha? They watched him A LOT and they still signed him. He came in late because of commitments overseas and was thrust into a training camp after being in a different country for mere weeks. Was slow on D and took a while to get rid of some euro tendencies. Despite that he was still a plus player early in the season. But he did improve a lot on that end, he is never going to be lock down, or even a good defender, but once he started picking up the physicality he did well. Then, all of a sudden he goes to a situational offensive guy that comes in for the last few seconds and then stays in the game for a few minutes the following quarter. Anyway, I don't blame anyone for thinking differently about this, I just hope he stays in the NBA and gets to play for a coach who puts him in a position to succeed rather than one to fail.

This is a whole other point that I agree with. You knew what you were getting and still went and did it..

I'll make you mad lol, but you can go back and read my posts from last offseason. I despised our entire offseason, I haven't been that doom in years. From using money on Sasha, reupping sabonis/barnes, trading our pick. It was disgusting. The only thing I believed in was resigning Lyles.

But it was pretty clear to me then that Sasha wasn't a need. Lyles plays his role and does it well at a great price. When you have lyles your backup 4 spot is in real good shape imo.

The only thing I can think of is they thought let's see if we strike lighting in a bottle with Sasha out the gate. They didn't feel that way so they went with Lyles.

And fwiw I agree with Sasha. We talked about this a few weeks ago, but Mike's rotations were pathetic. Fox, huerter, keegan, Barnes, sabonis, monk.. the rest of the team had no idea if they would play that night. So inconsistent never giving anyone a chance to get into rythym. Finally they stuck with davion and keon at 2 instead of 1, and both guys started to take off. Maybe we woulda seen the same with Sasha but we will never know.

Ingles/Bjelica are more fluid and less one dimensional, and are better players compared to what I and Brown saw of Sasha. Ingles or what have you was Sasha’s ceiling and easily worth what they paid, even Bjelica would be given how he could play some with Domas

[LightTheBeam]

Excellent post.
Yes I have a bias for Sasha, because I know what he can do if he gets a chance and how that specific archetype of player can transform this team.

Explain something to me. What exactly did the Kings think they were getting with Sasha? They watched him A LOT and they still signed him. He came in late because of commitments overseas and was thrust into a training camp after being in a different country for mere weeks. Was slow on D and took a while to get rid of some euro tendencies. Despite that he was still a plus player early in the season. But he did improve a lot on that end, he is never going to be lock down, or even a good defender, but once he started picking up the physicality he did well. Then, all of a sudden he goes to a situational offensive guy that comes in for the last few seconds and then stays in the game for a few minutes the following quarter. Anyway, I don't blame anyone for thinking differently about this, I just hope he stays in the NBA and gets to play for a coach who puts him in a position to succeed rather than one to fail.

This is a whole other point that I agree with. You knew what you were getting and still went and did it..

I'll make you mad lol, but you can go back and read my posts from last offseason. I despised our entire offseason, I haven't been that doom in years. From using money on Sasha, reupping sabonis/barnes, trading our pick. It was disgusting. The only thing I believed in was resigning Lyles.

But it was pretty clear to me then that Sasha wasn't a need. Lyles plays his role and does it well at a great price. When you have lyles your backup 4 spot is in real good shape imo.

The only thing I can think of is they thought let's see if we strike lighting in a bottle with Sasha out the gate. They didn't feel that way so they went with Lyles.

And fwiw I agree with Sasha. We talked about this a few weeks ago, but Mike's rotations were pathetic. Fox, huerter, keegan, Barnes, sabonis, monk.. the rest of the team had no idea if they would play that night. So inconsistent never giving anyone a chance to get into rythym. Finally they stuck with davion and keon at 2 instead of 1, and both guys started to take off. Maybe we woulda seen the same with Sasha but we will never know.

Ingles/Bjelica are more fluid and less one dimensional, and are better players compared to what I and Brown saw of Sasha. Ingles or what have you was Sasha’s ceiling and easily worth what they paid, even Bjelica would be given how he could play some with Domas

I don't see the Joe Ingles comparison at all. Ingles was always a good defender + Point forward type. Much faster, more nimble, and far superior with the ball in his hands. Bjelica sure.

[BoogieTime]

This is a whole other point that I agree with. You knew what you were getting and still went and did it..

I'll make you mad lol, but you can go back and read my posts from last offseason. I despised our entire offseason, I haven't been that doom in years. From using money on Sasha, reupping sabonis/barnes, trading our pick. It was disgusting. The only thing I believed in was resigning Lyles.

But it was pretty clear to me then that Sasha wasn't a need. Lyles plays his role and does it well at a great price. When you have lyles your backup 4 spot is in real good shape imo.

The only thing I can think of is they thought let's see if we strike lighting in a bottle with Sasha out the gate. They didn't feel that way so they went with Lyles.

And fwiw I agree with Sasha. We talked about this a few weeks ago, but Mike's rotations were pathetic. Fox, huerter, keegan, Barnes, sabonis, monk.. the rest of the team had no idea if they would play that night. So inconsistent never giving anyone a chance to get into rythym. Finally they stuck with davion and keon at 2 instead of 1, and both guys started to take off. Maybe we woulda seen the same with Sasha but we will never know.

Ingles/Bjelica are more fluid and less one dimensional, and are better players compared to what I and Brown saw of Sasha. Ingles or what have you was Sasha’s ceiling and easily worth what they paid, even Bjelica would be given how he could play some with Domas

I don't see the Joe Ingles comparison at all. Ingles was always a good defender + Point forward type. Much faster, more nimble, and far superior with the ball in his hands. Bjelica sure.

It’s the “nimble” part that sometimes translates to the pros and sometimes doesn’t.

[Lost in LA]

Boston has shown the latest variation of the success formula, a lttle different from the Golden State team of about 6-8 years ago.

1. Have 5-7 players who can shoot if needed, and share the ball naturally to get the ball in the player's hands who has the best "look"
2. Have 5-7 players who are all disciplined defenders who can switch as needed
3. The concept of team is far more important than the individual's needs for Stats or All Star possibilities
4. Calmness under pressure and never resort to just chucking up threes

The Kings are about 4 players and a coach from this level.

[typedrat]

Boston has shown the latest variation of the success formula, a lttle different from the Golden State team of about 6-8 years ago.

1. Have 5-7 players who can shoot if needed, and share the ball naturally to get the ball in the player's hands who has the best "look"
2. Have 5-7 players who are all disciplined defenders who can switch as needed
3. The concept of team is far more important than the individual's needs for Stats or All Star possibilities
4. Calmness under pressure and never resort to just chucking up threes

The Kings are about 4 players and a coach from this level.

because the team that's currently winning the finals presents the only possible model of a team that could win the finals, obviously