The TRADE Thread 2021

[BoogieTime]

Trade wise, the only thing that can happen is clown Ranadive getting out of the way and allowing the rebuild as we see this team is just not ready to compete

IMO, both Hali and Fox can't be moved, either due to talent or due to lower perceived trade value than talent at this juncture (giving Fox the benefit of the doubt tonight that there are reason for his piss poor year, if there aren't he may need to be moved anyways)

Mortgaging the future for someone like Siakam or Sabonis who questionably impact the game while they leave in 2-3 years after what shouldve been a rebuild would not be good IMO

[Theocy]

i've been killing it inthe nba trade machine with Kings / Wizards / Celtics combos lately

Out of curiosity, are you seeing Hali as the cornerstone for whatever rebuild you are doing as a team or is he expendable since he seems to be occupying the same space Fox is?

I can't see how Simmons fits the picture for you guys and there's a lot of talk about Simmons and Kings - he's a primary ball handler and it seems like your team already has 2 of those - well assuming you end up trading Fox to Philly that leaves one. I was actively trying to figure out if Brown would make more sense for your roster, either for Hali or Fox but this wont make sense to Celtics unless somehow and in a magic way, Beal ends up in Boston with picks and ballast being re-routed to Wizards.

[BoogieTime]

A guy in another forum broke down quite eloquently what I've been saying the entire time since the summer, and why I advocated for a Fox/Simmons trade since then


Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.1 Net Rtg (112.2 Off Rtg & 115.3 Def Rtg over 699 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -11.7 Net Rtg (106.3 Off Rtg & 118.0 Def Rtg over 340 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +0.9 Net Rtg (103.0 Off Rtg & 102.1 Def Rtg over 350 minutes)

I think we can all admit that Fox had a pretty slow start to the season and starting to get back to normal at the beginning of December. Below is the same on/off stats as I posted above except I have filtered on the date range 12/1-1/9:

Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.5 Net Rtg (111.9 Off Rtg & 115.4 Def Rtg over 289 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -4.5 Net Rtg (113.0 Off Rtg & 117.5 Def Rtg over 104 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +2.5 Net Rtg (110.8 Off Rtg & 108.3 Def Rtg over 154 minutes)

In both cases, it indicates that Haliburton/Mitchell is the most impactful young guard pairing we have despite Fox coming back around as of late.



I'm here for a Hali/Mitchell backcourt long term (despite Davion's annoying efficiency issues of late). It's unfortunate that Fox's trade value is not where we need it to be if we want to go that way starting now, but maybe Fox can fit in some three guard lineups down the line

[sacking123]

A guy in another forum broke down quite eloquently what I've been saying the entire time since the summer, and why I advocated for a Fox/Simmons trade since then


Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.1 Net Rtg (112.2 Off Rtg & 115.3 Def Rtg over 699 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -11.7 Net Rtg (106.3 Off Rtg & 118.0 Def Rtg over 340 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +0.9 Net Rtg (103.0 Off Rtg & 102.1 Def Rtg over 350 minutes)

I think we can all admit that Fox had a pretty slow start to the season and starting to get back to normal at the beginning of December. Below is the same on/off stats as I posted above except I have filtered on the date range 12/1-1/9:

Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.5 Net Rtg (111.9 Off Rtg & 115.4 Def Rtg over 289 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -4.5 Net Rtg (113.0 Off Rtg & 117.5 Def Rtg over 104 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +2.5 Net Rtg (110.8 Off Rtg & 108.3 Def Rtg over 154 minutes)

In both cases, it indicates that Haliburton/Mitchell is the most impactful young guard pairing we have despite Fox coming back around as of late.



I'm here for a Hali/Mitchell backcourt long term (despite Davion's annoying efficiency issues of late). It's unfortunate that Fox's trade value is not where we need it to be if we want to go that way starting now, but maybe Fox can fit in some three guard lineups down the line

It's one of the reasons why I believe the Kings need to make a decision on this.There is no rush, and I certainly wouldn't trade Fox without full value coming back.
I also wouldn't trade for Simmons.
Let's hypothetically say Fox is the guy to go and they will use Davion/Hali as the starters. (I will say I have liked the way Fox and Hali have played more recently)
IMO this rules Simmons out completely. It's redundant. Yes, he is a terrific defender, but for Simmons to succeed, and most importantly, be happy, he needs to be the primary ball handler.
I think we can all agree (?) if Fox gets moved, Hali should be the primary ball handler going forward and the offense geared up around him and whoever comes in via trade.
That is why a #1 option type should be coming back. Just to be clear, I'm not saying it has to be a 1/1 trade.
The only overpay that I would make at this stage is for Jaylen Brown. He's young enough to form a great tandem with Hali. If you can get Brown and Cam Reddish/Gal via trade while using Fox/Barnes/picks and whatever else then I think it changes the impact and balance of the roster effectively.
Of course, as I mentioned, that's a hypothetical if they want to go the trade Fox route.
I just can't see any scenario that Hali is traded and if you're not trading him, you need to give him the keys to the offense. He will be a really good #3 or #2 on a PO team. Need to find his batman if Fox isn't it.

[BoogieTime]

A guy in another forum broke down quite eloquently what I've been saying the entire time since the summer, and why I advocated for a Fox/Simmons trade since then


Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.1 Net Rtg (112.2 Off Rtg & 115.3 Def Rtg over 699 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -11.7 Net Rtg (106.3 Off Rtg & 118.0 Def Rtg over 340 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +0.9 Net Rtg (103.0 Off Rtg & 102.1 Def Rtg over 350 minutes)

I think we can all admit that Fox had a pretty slow start to the season and starting to get back to normal at the beginning of December. Below is the same on/off stats as I posted above except I have filtered on the date range 12/1-1/9:

Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.5 Net Rtg (111.9 Off Rtg & 115.4 Def Rtg over 289 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -4.5 Net Rtg (113.0 Off Rtg & 117.5 Def Rtg over 104 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +2.5 Net Rtg (110.8 Off Rtg & 108.3 Def Rtg over 154 minutes)

In both cases, it indicates that Haliburton/Mitchell is the most impactful young guard pairing we have despite Fox coming back around as of late.



I'm here for a Hali/Mitchell backcourt long term (despite Davion's annoying efficiency issues of late). It's unfortunate that Fox's trade value is not where we need it to be if we want to go that way starting now, but maybe Fox can fit in some three guard lineups down the line

It's one of the reasons why I believe the Kings need to make a decision on this.There is no rush, and I certainly wouldn't trade Fox without full value coming back.
I also wouldn't trade for Simmons.
Let's hypothetically say Fox is the guy to go and they will use Davion/Hali as the starters. (I will say I have liked the way Fox and Hali have played more recently)
IMO this rules Simmons out completely. It's redundant. Yes, he is a terrific defender, but for Simmons to succeed, and most importantly, be happy, he needs to be the primary ball handler.
I think we can all agree (?) if Fox gets moved, Hali should be the primary ball handler going forward and the offense geared up around him and whoever comes in via trade.
That is why a #1 option type should be coming back. Just to be clear, I'm not saying it has to be a 1/1 trade.
The only overpay that I would make at this stage is for Jaylen Brown. He's young enough to form a great tandem with Hali. If you can get Brown and Cam Reddish/Gal via trade while using Fox/Barnes/picks and whatever else then I think it changes the impact and balance of the roster effectively.
Of course, as I mentioned, that's a hypothetical if they want to go the trade Fox route.
I just can't see any scenario that Hali is traded and if you're not trading him, you need to give him the keys to the offense. He will be a really good #3 or #2 on a PO team. Need to find his batman if Fox isn't it.

He's an odd player and an odd fit anywhere. I think he's talented enough that I would move Fox/Barnes and maybe one pick, in some variation for him. But that's about it. He's so dimensional, that there are questions if he will even impact highly his next home. I certainly wouldn't dick with Morey over him. I'm assuming meddling Vivek brought him up because he's the only name that is actively on the market.

One thing he has over other names is that for whatever reason he wants to be here. Because of his California love the kings are on his preferred list. It would suck to give up significant assets for any player that wouldn't be favored to re-sign with us, and also not put us over the top

I'm hoping even clown Vivek understands this season is over, and to not bungle the pick this year and just move to the offseason

[jazanetti]

A guy in another forum broke down quite eloquently what I've been saying the entire time since the summer, and why I advocated for a Fox/Simmons trade since then


Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.1 Net Rtg (112.2 Off Rtg & 115.3 Def Rtg over 699 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -11.7 Net Rtg (106.3 Off Rtg & 118.0 Def Rtg over 340 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +0.9 Net Rtg (103.0 Off Rtg & 102.1 Def Rtg over 350 minutes)

I think we can all admit that Fox had a pretty slow start to the season and starting to get back to normal at the beginning of December. Below is the same on/off stats as I posted above except I have filtered on the date range 12/1-1/9:

Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.5 Net Rtg (111.9 Off Rtg & 115.4 Def Rtg over 289 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -4.5 Net Rtg (113.0 Off Rtg & 117.5 Def Rtg over 104 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +2.5 Net Rtg (110.8 Off Rtg & 108.3 Def Rtg over 154 minutes)

In both cases, it indicates that Haliburton/Mitchell is the most impactful young guard pairing we have despite Fox coming back around as of late.



I'm here for a Hali/Mitchell backcourt long term (despite Davion's annoying efficiency issues of late). It's unfortunate that Fox's trade value is not where we need it to be if we want to go that way starting now, but maybe Fox can fit in some three guard lineups down the line

It's one of the reasons why I believe the Kings need to make a decision on this.There is no rush, and I certainly wouldn't trade Fox without full value coming back.
I also wouldn't trade for Simmons.
Let's hypothetically say Fox is the guy to go and they will use Davion/Hali as the starters. (I will say I have liked the way Fox and Hali have played more recently)
IMO this rules Simmons out completely. It's redundant. Yes, he is a terrific defender, but for Simmons to succeed, and most importantly, be happy, he needs to be the primary ball handler.
I think we can all agree (?) if Fox gets moved, Hali should be the primary ball handler going forward and the offense geared up around him and whoever comes in via trade.
That is why a #1 option type should be coming back. Just to be clear, I'm not saying it has to be a 1/1 trade.
The only overpay that I would make at this stage is for Jaylen Brown. He's young enough to form a great tandem with Hali. If you can get Brown and Cam Reddish/Gal via trade while using Fox/Barnes/picks and whatever else then I think it changes the impact and balance of the roster effectively.
Of course, as I mentioned, that's a hypothetical if they want to go the trade Fox route.
I just can't see any scenario that Hali is traded and if you're not trading him, you need to give him the keys to the offense. He will be a really good #3 or #2 on a PO team. Need to find his batman if Fox isn't it.

Simmons is definitely NOT the primary ball handler. His best offensive role is rim runner/secondary ball handler.
If trading Fox for Simmons, we also need to go all-inn for a first scoring option type player, sending away Mitchell, Hield as a filler and a lot of picks

Sent from my M2007J20CG using RealGM mobile app

[sacking123]

A guy in another forum broke down quite eloquently what I've been saying the entire time since the summer, and why I advocated for a Fox/Simmons trade since then


Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.1 Net Rtg (112.2 Off Rtg & 115.3 Def Rtg over 699 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -11.7 Net Rtg (106.3 Off Rtg & 118.0 Def Rtg over 340 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +0.9 Net Rtg (103.0 Off Rtg & 102.1 Def Rtg over 350 minutes)

I think we can all admit that Fox had a pretty slow start to the season and starting to get back to normal at the beginning of December. Below is the same on/off stats as I posted above except I have filtered on the date range 12/1-1/9:

Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.5 Net Rtg (111.9 Off Rtg & 115.4 Def Rtg over 289 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -4.5 Net Rtg (113.0 Off Rtg & 117.5 Def Rtg over 104 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +2.5 Net Rtg (110.8 Off Rtg & 108.3 Def Rtg over 154 minutes)

In both cases, it indicates that Haliburton/Mitchell is the most impactful young guard pairing we have despite Fox coming back around as of late.



I'm here for a Hali/Mitchell backcourt long term (despite Davion's annoying efficiency issues of late). It's unfortunate that Fox's trade value is not where we need it to be if we want to go that way starting now, but maybe Fox can fit in some three guard lineups down the line

It's one of the reasons why I believe the Kings need to make a decision on this.There is no rush, and I certainly wouldn't trade Fox without full value coming back.
I also wouldn't trade for Simmons.
Let's hypothetically say Fox is the guy to go and they will use Davion/Hali as the starters. (I will say I have liked the way Fox and Hali have played more recently)
IMO this rules Simmons out completely. It's redundant. Yes, he is a terrific defender, but for Simmons to succeed, and most importantly, be happy, he needs to be the primary ball handler.
I think we can all agree (?) if Fox gets moved, Hali should be the primary ball handler going forward and the offense geared up around him and whoever comes in via trade.
That is why a #1 option type should be coming back. Just to be clear, I'm not saying it has to be a 1/1 trade.
The only overpay that I would make at this stage is for Jaylen Brown. He's young enough to form a great tandem with Hali. If you can get Brown and Cam Reddish/Gal via trade while using Fox/Barnes/picks and whatever else then I think it changes the impact and balance of the roster effectively.
Of course, as I mentioned, that's a hypothetical if they want to go the trade Fox route.
I just can't see any scenario that Hali is traded and if you're not trading him, you need to give him the keys to the offense. He will be a really good #3 or #2 on a PO team. Need to find his batman if Fox isn't it.

Simmons is definitely NOT the primary ball handler. His best offensive role is rim runner/secondary ball handler.
If trading Fox for Simmons, we also need to go all-inn for a first scoring option type player, sending away Mitchell, Hield as a filler and a lot of picks

Sent from my M2007J20CG using RealGM mobile app

Simmons wants his own team. He wants to be the PG. you will not see him come to Sacramento and be happy not being the lead ball handler. What his best position is, is completely different to what he wants. He hated his role in Philly when they simply put him in the dunkers spot (his best position) Look what happened when they took the ball out of his hands and put it in Jimmys. Hence he has not only requested a trade, but is refusing to play for them again.
Adding to that, if Fox is used to get Ben, there is no chance at getting a true #1 option without including Hali IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[rpa]

Hence he has not only requested a trade, but is refusing to play for them again.

I got the sense that the reason for the trade request was because both Embiid and Rivers threw him under the bus after the game and that they eviscerated the trust he had in them.


As for Simmons on the Kings:

Simmons is such a tough player to hypothesize about (role wise) because there are so few (successful) examples of players like him. He's a really good ball handler, but neither a shooter nor a scorer. He's big and a good defender, but not someone you'd want going up against the Gobert's, Jokic's, and Embiid's of the world.

Even if you ignore the defensive part and only focus on the offensive end, how many players in the last, say, 20 years, are even like that? We've seen non-scorers (eg Nash, to some extent CP3), but both were good or elite shooters. We've seen some non-shooters (eg Westbrook) but they were elite scorers. Who's left? Jason Kidd maybe?

What does a successful team in the modern era look like built around Kidd? His NJN teams had crazy athleticism and good defense, but in the modern game shooting is probably more important. So I assume you have at least one high caliber rim running big (taking Kenyon Martin's role on the offensive end) and a bunch of shooters at the 2-4 to provide proper spacing. Then Simmons takes Martin's role as the defensive stopper I guess? And with Simmons as your (likely) lead ball handler do you then have a team-based approach to offense or do you also try to mix in a high scorer elsewhere?

I'm sure the folks around here will say that the Kings move Fox for him and then run a lineup of Mitchell/Hali/Simmons/Barnes/Holmes, but the success of that lineup relies on Mitchell not being a **** player and upping his outside shooting (currently 30% from 3pt range) and I'm not sure I buy into that happening (remember, one big question that he came out of college with was that given his consistently low FT% was his 1 year bump in 3pt% a fluke or not--looking like a yes)

[sacking123]

Hence he has not only requested a trade, but is refusing to play for them again.

I got the sense that the reason for the trade request was because both Embiid and Rivers threw him under the bus after the game and that they eviscerated the trust he had in them.


As for Simmons on the Kings:

Simmons is such a tough player to hypothesize about (role wise) because there are so few (successful) examples of players like him. He's a really good ball handler, but neither a shooter nor a scorer. He's big and a good defender, but not someone you'd want going up against the Gobert's, Jokic's, and Embiid's of the world.

Even if you ignore the defensive part and only focus on the offensive end, how many players in the last, say, 20 years, are even like that? We've seen non-scorers (eg Nash, to some extent CP3), but both were good or elite shooters. We've seen some non-shooters (eg Westbrook) but they were elite scorers. Who's left? Jason Kidd maybe?

What does a successful team in the modern era look like built around Kidd? His NJN teams had crazy athleticism and good defense, but in the modern game shooting is probably more important. So I assume you have at least one high caliber rim running big (taking Kenyon Martin's role on the offensive end) and a bunch of shooters at the 2-4 to provide proper spacing. Then Simmons takes Martin's role as the defensive stopper I guess? And with Simmons as your (likely) lead ball handler do you then have a team-based approach to offense or do you also try to mix in a high scorer elsewhere?

I'm sure the folks around here will say that the Kings move Fox for him and then run a lineup of Mitchell/Hali/Simmons/Barnes/Holmes, but the success of that lineup relies on Mitchell not being a **** player and upping his outside shooting (currently 30% from 3pt range) and I'm not sure I buy into that happening (remember, one big question that he came out of college with was that given his consistently low FT% was his 1 year bump in 3pt% a fluke or not--looking like a yes)

I would have to agree.
One of the main problems I see in a Simmons deal to Sacramento is IMO you then can't keep Holmes. I'm not against trading Holmes, but because Simmons is such a unique prospect to build around, you need very specific players around him. I don't see the Kings being able to do it. You can't have so many poor shooters in the starting line-up.
Teams already sag off the Kings as it is. That starting lineup would be Mitchell (30.4%), Hali (43.8%), Simmons (14%), Barnes (42.2%), Holmes (25% - using career % here).

I do think Mitchell will improve his outside shot and become around a 36% shooter. He has good mechanics and works hard. Now maybe that won't happen either, because he has always been a hard worker and it hasn't paid off yet.

The only positive I see out of that line-up is for the first time in a long, long time the Kings would have a good defensive line-up. Not team, but a line-up, because there isn't much D coming off the bench.

[rpa]

I would have to agree.
One of the main problems I see in a Simmons deal to Sacramento is IMO you then can't keep Holmes. I'm not against trading Holmes, but because Simmons is such a unique prospect to build around, you need very specific players around him. I don't see the Kings being able to do it. You can't have so many poor shooters in the starting line-up.
Teams already sag off the Kings as it is. That starting lineup would be Mitchell (30.4%), Hali (43.8%), Simmons (14%), Barnes (42.2%), Holmes (25% - using career % here).

I do think Mitchell will improve his outside shot and become around a 36% shooter. He has good mechanics and works hard. Now maybe that won't happen either, because he has always been a hard worker and it hasn't paid off yet.

The only positive I see out of that line-up is for the first time in a long, long time the Kings would have a good defensive line-up. Not team, but a line-up, because there isn't much D coming off the bench.

Agree with the Holmes part, but the flip side of that equation is that if you move off from Holmes for a shooter then:
a) Shooters that aren't defensive sieves are already valuable. How does one propose we acquire such a player?
b) Mitchell, Hali, and Barnes aren't rim runners. Without Holmes you've got no one in the starting lineup that presents a rim attempt in the pick and roll--thus making running one Hali or Simmons far less effective.

[sacking123]

I would have to agree.
One of the main problems I see in a Simmons deal to Sacramento is IMO you then can't keep Holmes. I'm not against trading Holmes, but because Simmons is such a unique prospect to build around, you need very specific players around him. I don't see the Kings being able to do it. You can't have so many poor shooters in the starting line-up.
Teams already sag off the Kings as it is. That starting lineup would be Mitchell (30.4%), Hali (43.8%), Simmons (14%), Barnes (42.2%), Holmes (25% - using career % here).

I do think Mitchell will improve his outside shot and become around a 36% shooter. He has good mechanics and works hard. Now maybe that won't happen either, because he has always been a hard worker and it hasn't paid off yet.

The only positive I see out of that line-up is for the first time in a long, long time the Kings would have a good defensive line-up. Not team, but a line-up, because there isn't much D coming off the bench.

Agree with the Holmes part, but the flip side of that equation is that if you move off from Holmes for a shooter then:
a) Shooters that aren't defensive sieves are already valuable. How does one propose we acquire such a player?
b) Mitchell, Hali, and Barnes aren't rim runners. Without Holmes you've got no one in the starting lineup that presents a rim attempt in the pick and roll--thus making running one Hali or Simmons far less effective.

Precisely.
There aren't too many players at the 5 that fit with Simmons IMO. Not in the rim running way, but as players than can at least spread the floor. He was playing with one of them and it's why I think the Twolves are so interested too. KAT would be a decent fit with him.
The players we would be talking about, and I would say the baseline for 3 pointers is 3 attempts per game, min 25mpg and shooting over 30%.
They are: JJJ, KAT, Vucevic, Turner, Jokic, Mo Bamba, Embiid, Wendell Carter Jr.
Turner is on the block, but would the Kings have enough to go after him with Holmes as the main asset? It would require a 3rd team, and for that team to want Holmes more than Turner.
Mo Bamba, no and WCJ, I don't think Orlando would deal him and he has an even better contract than Holmes.

The above answers question a) - I don't see the Kings being able to do it.
b) Yes and let's open up the long range threat at the center position a little more. These players that can at least spread the floor most of the time, don't possess that same ability either to rim run.

[sacking123]

And with the PG13 news coming through I think it's not what any Kings fan wants to hear.
The FO will be going full tilt at improving the roster now and seeing an opportunity. Not saying it's the right move, but there is no way they go full tank if he's out for the season.

The Kings are 5.5 games back and Spurs 5 games back from the Clippers. Can they both catch them?

[rpa]

And with the PG13 news coming through I think it's not what any Kings fan wants to hear.
The FO will be going full tilt at improving the roster now and seeing an opportunity. Not saying it's the right move, but there is no way they go full tank if he's out for the season.

The Kings are 5.5 games back and Spurs 5 games back from the Clippers. Can they both catch them?

The Lillard news doesn't help either of course.

I think the next 4 games are crucial: LAL, HOU twice, and DET. After that the schedule gets pretty tough up until the deadline: @MIL, @BOS, @ATL, @PHI, @NYK, BKN, @GSW, OKC, MIN, MIN. I've got a hard time seeing the Kings going any better than 2-8 during that stretch (1-9 and 0-10 are on the table). 4-0 over the next 4 could put them around 6-8 heading into the deadline which would put them relatively close to the play-in. But 2-2 or 1-3 has them at 4-10 or 3-11. Either of those results and we may (hopefully) see the team throw in the towel.

[dozencousins]

Update : Ben Simmons situation . Though we could still trade for him my source has clearly informed me that as of right now it looks as if Morey may drag the Simmons saga to the ;ast momemt of the trade deadline . IMO if he does this he is an idiot in this case .
From Monte's standpoint he will not allow himself to make or be forced to any desperate moves . So that said if the Kings were to aquire Ben in a deal it must be much sooner than later .
Kings will move on and not look back on getting Ben if that is the case . Also that said if that were the case we could still be involved in such a deal were Ben gets dealt elsewhere and were the third team in such a deal .

I have also heard in the coming few days we may have a trade done . Who knows for sure though as deals fall through all the time .
One such deal has us getting Donte D. from the Bucks whom we missed out on last season . We are also talking strongly with Atlanta , 76ers most notably . Me,phis also has interest in Barnes but then so does about 12 other teams including the Bulls . Lakers , 76ers , and more strongly intersted in Buddy . Fox has many suitors Knicks , Celtics & many more .
Lakers are eye balling T.T. to see if he is not traded via the Kings and possibly get bought out .

Bottom line everyone there will be a major overall of this team . Expect the roster to look drastically different . If I had to guess 60- 75 % of our main roster will be no more .

Buddy I 100% guarantee all will be gone
Bagley 90% gone
Barnes 75 % gone
Harkless , Len , T.T. , Metu , Ramsey , Woodard 60 % gone
Fox 50 % chance
Holmes 40 %

If not mentioned it does not mean the Kings will not trade them but less likely as all players are on the table for any right circumstance .

I might be wrong but again based on what I here a deal is likely very soon in the next few days from now . It looks likely but here given the Donte deal last season & the Kuzma deal fell through as well right before this one I do not want to come here and guarantee anyone anything .

Lastly I will say some players reguardless of any outlets that have reported we have talked with a lot of tems and still are as we should be .

Players of discussions :

J.Brown
Reddish , Galli
Simmons ,
Obi , Julius Randle ( I do not think we will get Randle though IMO )
Donte
M.Turner
Sikiam
Kristaps Porzingis , Bunson
Dejounte Murray
Brandon Ingram
Dillon Brooks

Now there are other scenerious if we go the other direction . Expirings , picks etc. of course .

Once we do get that first deal we should all get a great sense are we going to go all in or mostly all in or are we selling off all major parts to rebuild . If we rebuild I do not see ot being a 100% rebuild . It would be more like a 50-75% rebuild .

We will be looking at a mostly new coaching staff next season . Keep your eyes out for possibly Mike D'Antoni coaching this team however we are exploring Kenny Atkinson and a few others as well . Shhhhh don't tell anyone . lol

[BoogieTime]

Man, just when I'm on team tank the team looks to win meaningless games again. I guess I should be happy for Fox actually showing life, but with wins its going to spur ownership to the wrong path I fear

[sacking123]

Man, just when I'm on team tank the team looks to win meaningless games again. I guess I should be happy for Fox actually showing life, but with wins its going to spur ownership to the wrong path I fear

No doubt its going to do that. Just got to hope Monte keeps all paths open (maybe it won't be his choice though).

[LightTheBeam]

I don't think one random win vs the not so good Lakers should change any existing plans, this team is still 10 games under .500. I've said it from the start. Move the vets.

Can we get a young guy who can run and play defense for Barnes?
Can we move Hield without taking on long term salary? Or if we do, can we get a nice asset attached?
Can we get anything for Tristan, Harkless, Bagley, Len?

I want to get Queta minutes. I want to get Davis minutes. I want to add some young, fast, athletic, defensive talent to an existing core.

Fox/Mitchell
Hali/Davis
?????????
?????????
Holmes/Queta/Jones

Lets fill out those question marks with guys who fit. I think we can simultaneously move the vets for youth/picks, while also getting better as a team. Get better now, and long term.

With Portland/Clippers dealing with injuries, I have no doubt this team will try to get better. But you can do it while getting younger and without sacrificing the future. Addition by subtraction, this team right now is such a contradiction of itself. Best 3 players want to play fast, rest of the team is slow. Makes zero sense.

[sacking123]

I don't think one random win vs the not so good Lakers should change any existing plans, this team is still 10 games under .500. I've said it from the start. Move the vets.

Can we get a young guy who can run and play defense for Barnes?
Can we move Hield without taking on long term salary? Or if we do, can we get a nice asset attached?
Can we get anything for Tristan, Harkless, Bagley, Len?

I want to get Queta minutes. I want to get Davis minutes. I want to add some young, fast, athletic, defensive talent to an existing core.

Fox/Mitchell
Hali/Davis
?????????
?????????
Holmes/Queta/Jones

Lets fill out those question marks with guys who fit. I think we can simultaneously move the vets for youth/picks, while also getting better as a team. Get better now, and long term.

With Portland/Clippers dealing with injuries, I have no doubt this team will try to get better. But you can do it while getting younger and without sacrificing the future. Addition by subtraction, this team right now is such a contradiction of itself. Best 3 players want to play fast, rest of the team is slow. Makes zero sense.

Can we get a young guy who can run and play defense for Barnes?
Well, we just missed out one. Reddish would have been great here IMO and wouldn't need to overpay on an extension. I can only assume that we didn't want to put this year's pick in a Reddish trade because there are potentially larger deals in the discussion.

Can we move Hield without taking on long term salary? Or if we do, can we get a nice asset attached?
We can certainly move Buddy. Whether we can swing an expiring contract like Gary Harris or Dragic in a 3 team deal I'm not sure. Cleveland does want to compete so maybe Rubio to give them more shooting off the bench?

Can we get anything for Tristan, Harkless, Bagley, Len?
Tristan - Yes
Harkless - No
Bagley - No
Len - No


I wouldn't limit it to just young guys. I would do Ingles/O'Neale for Barnes too. If we could get an expiring salary for Buddy then it would open up max salary next season. Obviously, we're not going to sign a max FA, but it will allow us to absorb salary for assets in the off season (even though I don't want it, Simmons might be the target there if the 6ers can sign Harden). And with O'Neale you have upgraded the defense substantially.
These are the types of moves I think we should be making. There won't be many teams that will be able to do that this coming off season. I have done the simple math version of this, but not with cap holds, etc.
That would leave the Kings with
Fox/Mitchell
Hali/Davis/Ramsey
O'Neale/Harkless/Woodard
Simmons/Metu
Holmes/Len/Queta

If Monte likes this type of scenario (I personally would HATE it) it would allow him to move Buddy with a 1st for expirings if that is a hold up, or keep the 1st to sweeten the Simmons deal, but with so few teams having space I doubt it would be needed if it means the 6ers get Harden or not.

[rpa]

I don't think one random win vs the not so good Lakers should change any existing plans, this team is still 10 games under .500. I've said it from the start. Move the vets.

Can we get a young guy who can run and play defense for Barnes?
Can we move Hield without taking on long term salary? Or if we do, can we get a nice asset attached?
Can we get anything for Tristan, Harkless, Bagley, Len?

I want to get Queta minutes. I want to get Davis minutes. I want to add some young, fast, athletic, defensive talent to an existing core.

Fox/Mitchell
Hali/Davis
?????????
?????????
Holmes/Queta/Jones

Lets fill out those question marks with guys who fit. I think we can simultaneously move the vets for youth/picks, while also getting better as a team. Get better now, and long term.

With Portland/Clippers dealing with injuries, I have no doubt this team will try to get better. But you can do it while getting younger and without sacrificing the future. Addition by subtraction, this team right now is such a contradiction of itself. Best 3 players want to play fast, rest of the team is slow. Makes zero sense.

Can we get a young guy who can run and play defense for Barnes?
Well, we just missed out one. Reddish would have been great here IMO and wouldn't need to overpay on an extension. I can only assume that we didn't want to put this year's pick in a Reddish trade because there are potentially larger deals in the discussion.

Can we move Hield without taking on long term salary? Or if we do, can we get a nice asset attached?
We can certainly move Buddy. Whether we can swing an expiring contract like Gary Harris or Dragic in a 3 team deal I'm not sure. Cleveland does want to compete so maybe Rubio to give them more shooting off the bench?

Can we get anything for Tristan, Harkless, Bagley, Len?
Tristan - Yes
Harkless - No
Bagley - No
Len - No


I wouldn't limit it to just young guys. I would do Ingles/O'Neale for Barnes too. If we could get an expiring salary for Buddy then it would open up max salary next season. Obviously, we're not going to sign a max FA, but it will allow us to absorb salary for assets in the off season (even though I don't want it, Simmons might be the target there if the 6ers can sign Harden). And with O'Neale you have upgraded the defense substantially.
These are the types of moves I think we should be making. There won't be many teams that will be able to do that this coming off season. I have done the simple math version of this, but not with cap holds, etc.
That would leave the Kings with
Fox/Mitchell
Hali/Davis/Ramsey
O'Neale/Harkless/Woodard
Simmons/Metu
Holmes/Len/Queta

If Monte likes this type of scenario (I personally would HATE it) it would allow him to move Buddy with a 1st for expirings if that is a hold up, or keep the 1st to sweeten the Simmons deal, but with so few teams having space I doubt it would be needed if it means the 6ers get Harden or not.

Reddish sucks. Defensive player who sucks at the useful parts of defense (the team part, rotations, etc) and an inconsistent shooter to boot. Someone's going to overpay him in 18 months and regret it within 2 months of the season starting.

Agree with RipPizzaGuy, the Kings should try to jettison the vets and give young guys their time. The absolute worst case is they suck and you lose more, but that gives you a high pick in what looks like a solid draft. Best case? They don't suck and maybe you've got a decent bench to work with next year.

Trying to take shortcuts with the likes of Simmons or Myles Turner/Sabonis or taking on Tobias Harris to maybe improve by a few wins? Just a waste.

[LightTheBeam]

I don't think one random win vs the not so good Lakers should change any existing plans, this team is still 10 games under .500. I've said it from the start. Move the vets.

Can we get a young guy who can run and play defense for Barnes?
Can we move Hield without taking on long term salary? Or if we do, can we get a nice asset attached?
Can we get anything for Tristan, Harkless, Bagley, Len?

I want to get Queta minutes. I want to get Davis minutes. I want to add some young, fast, athletic, defensive talent to an existing core.

Fox/Mitchell
Hali/Davis
?????????
?????????
Holmes/Queta/Jones

Lets fill out those question marks with guys who fit. I think we can simultaneously move the vets for youth/picks, while also getting better as a team. Get better now, and long term.

With Portland/Clippers dealing with injuries, I have no doubt this team will try to get better. But you can do it while getting younger and without sacrificing the future. Addition by subtraction, this team right now is such a contradiction of itself. Best 3 players want to play fast, rest of the team is slow. Makes zero sense.

Can we get a young guy who can run and play defense for Barnes?
Well, we just missed out one. Reddish would have been great here IMO and wouldn't need to overpay on an extension. I can only assume that we didn't want to put this year's pick in a Reddish trade because there are potentially larger deals in the discussion.

Can we move Hield without taking on long term salary? Or if we do, can we get a nice asset attached?
We can certainly move Buddy. Whether we can swing an expiring contract like Gary Harris or Dragic in a 3 team deal I'm not sure. Cleveland does want to compete so maybe Rubio to give them more shooting off the bench?

Can we get anything for Tristan, Harkless, Bagley, Len?
Tristan - Yes
Harkless - No
Bagley - No
Len - No


I wouldn't limit it to just young guys. I would do Ingles/O'Neale for Barnes too. If we could get an expiring salary for Buddy then it would open up max salary next season. Obviously, we're not going to sign a max FA, but it will allow us to absorb salary for assets in the off season (even though I don't want it, Simmons might be the target there if the 6ers can sign Harden). And with O'Neale you have upgraded the defense substantially.
These are the types of moves I think we should be making. There won't be many teams that will be able to do that this coming off season. I have done the simple math version of this, but not with cap holds, etc.
That would leave the Kings with
Fox/Mitchell
Hali/Davis/Ramsey
O'Neale/Harkless/Woodard
Simmons/Metu
Holmes/Len/Queta

If Monte likes this type of scenario (I personally would HATE it) it would allow him to move Buddy with a 1st for expirings if that is a hold up, or keep the 1st to sweeten the Simmons deal, but with so few teams having space I doubt it would be needed if it means the 6ers get Harden or not.

Thats an interesting thought. I highly doubt we can get Simmons for nothing but cap space + picks (I think Harden stays in Brooklyn) but it would be amazing. And I say that as a non believer in Simmons. But F it. Put talent on the team and figure it out. Fox/Hali/Simmons/Holmes doesn't fit. Nobody denying that at all, but we can gap out their minutes, and we aren't a good shooting team so figure out how else to play.

As for Barnes, we did miss out on Reddish. I really wanted Gallo/Reddish for Barnes. But it seems the 2 teams didn't align. Hawks wanted a pick there, not a player. Now that doesn't mean we still can't make a move with them.

Barnes for Gallo + 1 of Hunter/Johnson
Barnes for Williams + salary
Barnes for KCP + Deni or Rui?
Barnes for Nesmith and salary

I do like getting O'Neale as well, but he wouldn't be my first choice. Id certainly still do that move if its what it came down to though.

Buddy for Dragic is interesting
Buddy for Rubio is good also
Buddy to the Lakers for THT + Nunn?
Buddy to Philly in 3 team scenario including Tobias would work also. Tobias getting routed elsewhere.

Are the Warriors still happy with Wiggins? Wiggins + Salary for Buddy/Barnes. I actually really really like Wiggins in Sac.

Tristan can go, not sure who would want him. Raptors could use a center, not much to give here. Bucks could use him as well. I actually struggle to see him getting traded, because I think teams just wait for a buy out.

Bagley is interesting to me. I think some team could trade for him and give some value. Hes played pretty well the last month since Walton got fired. Hes trying on defense, hes playing within the offense, he rebounds well. I wouldn't mind keeping him if the return is nothing, but I feel like we could find a team that would give an underperforming young guy for him.

Harkless/Len you are probably right. But Id dump both for a fake 2nd and give minutes to Woodard/Queta before just letting them stick on the team.

Ive said it for years. But the way this team can't develop or even give minutes to 2nd round picks is disgusting. Seems like teams like the Rockets, Spurs, OKC, Cavs, the list goes on and on. They give minutes to 2nd round picks and undrafted guys instead of continuing to play trash vets when they are bad. Eventually one or two guys come out of the rubble as decent role players. Kings so trash we don't even give them a chance to develop.