The TRADE Thread 2021

[rpa]

As for Barnes, we did miss out on Reddish. I really wanted Gallo/Reddish for Barnes. But it seems the 2 teams didn't align. Hawks wanted a pick there, not a player. Now that doesn't mean we still can't make a move with them.

Barnes for Gallo + 1 of Hunter/Johnson
Barnes for Williams + salary
Barnes for KCP + Deni or Rui?
Barnes for Nesmith and salary

I do like getting O'Neale as well, but he wouldn't be my first choice. Id certainly still do that move if its what it came down to though.

Much rather try to get a pick and useful salary for Barnes. While I still believe Mitchell was a horrible **** pick I think that Monte's strategy will work more often than it won't (ie going all in on BPA)--thus acquiring picks is better. Also gives players some minutes this year.

[LightTheBeam]

Reddish sucks. Defensive player who sucks at the useful parts of defense (the team part, rotations, etc) and an inconsistent shooter to boot. Someone's going to overpay him in 18 months and regret it within 2 months of the season starting.

Agree with RipPizzaGuy, the Kings should try to jettison the vets and give young guys their time. The absolute worst case is they suck and you lose more, but that gives you a high pick in what looks like a solid draft. Best case? They don't suck and maybe you've got a decent bench to work with next year.

Trying to take shortcuts with the likes of Simmons or Myles Turner/Sabonis or taking on Tobias Harris to maybe improve by a few wins? Just a waste.

Reddish is interesting. Hes inconsistent but id love to see him outside of Atlanta. I think offensively he could take a leap, but hasn't really had the opportunity there with so many mouths to feed. Both Atlanta and Reddish will be happy separating. You are right in that he probably woulda came here and his inconsistencies would shine more, where as I think NY/Thibs give him the opportunity to make the leap.

I'm with you for the majority of taking short cuts. I think if you can get Turner for cheap you should explore it. He could be a true core piece, and I would love to see him and Hali in the PNR. He hasn't had a play maker like Hali in Indiana, maybe ever. So I think theres still another level of his game that has been unexplored. But ya, if we trade for someone like Tobias I will be even more depressed on this teams outlook.

Thats why trading vets for youth makes the most sense. And you have to do it now.

Barnes has 1.5 years left on his deal, he seems to be declining anyways. So the longer you wait, the less return you can get for him.
Buddy has 2.5 years left, but his deal is declining. He brings an obvious skill set, and one that gets you paid in the NBA. Maybe we can wait another year and trade him for a better return, but he clearly doesn't bring effort or want to be here. So trading him is absolutely addition by subtraction.

The rest of the vets don't have a ton of value. But they are expiring deals and could prove to be worthy of playing on contenders. They serve no value here. So getting anything for them is a win.

[sacking123]

I don't think one random win vs the not so good Lakers should change any existing plans, this team is still 10 games under .500. I've said it from the start. Move the vets.

Can we get a young guy who can run and play defense for Barnes?
Can we move Hield without taking on long term salary? Or if we do, can we get a nice asset attached?
Can we get anything for Tristan, Harkless, Bagley, Len?

I want to get Queta minutes. I want to get Davis minutes. I want to add some young, fast, athletic, defensive talent to an existing core.

Fox/Mitchell
Hali/Davis
?????????
?????????
Holmes/Queta/Jones

Lets fill out those question marks with guys who fit. I think we can simultaneously move the vets for youth/picks, while also getting better as a team. Get better now, and long term.

With Portland/Clippers dealing with injuries, I have no doubt this team will try to get better. But you can do it while getting younger and without sacrificing the future. Addition by subtraction, this team right now is such a contradiction of itself. Best 3 players want to play fast, rest of the team is slow. Makes zero sense.

Can we get a young guy who can run and play defense for Barnes?
Well, we just missed out one. Reddish would have been great here IMO and wouldn't need to overpay on an extension. I can only assume that we didn't want to put this year's pick in a Reddish trade because there are potentially larger deals in the discussion.

Can we move Hield without taking on long term salary? Or if we do, can we get a nice asset attached?
We can certainly move Buddy. Whether we can swing an expiring contract like Gary Harris or Dragic in a 3 team deal I'm not sure. Cleveland does want to compete so maybe Rubio to give them more shooting off the bench?

Can we get anything for Tristan, Harkless, Bagley, Len?
Tristan - Yes
Harkless - No
Bagley - No
Len - No


I wouldn't limit it to just young guys. I would do Ingles/O'Neale for Barnes too. If we could get an expiring salary for Buddy then it would open up max salary next season. Obviously, we're not going to sign a max FA, but it will allow us to absorb salary for assets in the off season (even though I don't want it, Simmons might be the target there if the 6ers can sign Harden). And with O'Neale you have upgraded the defense substantially.
These are the types of moves I think we should be making. There won't be many teams that will be able to do that this coming off season. I have done the simple math version of this, but not with cap holds, etc.
That would leave the Kings with
Fox/Mitchell
Hali/Davis/Ramsey
O'Neale/Harkless/Woodard
Simmons/Metu
Holmes/Len/Queta

If Monte likes this type of scenario (I personally would HATE it) it would allow him to move Buddy with a 1st for expirings if that is a hold up, or keep the 1st to sweeten the Simmons deal, but with so few teams having space I doubt it would be needed if it means the 6ers get Harden or not.

Reddish sucks. Defensive player who sucks at the useful parts of defense (the team part, rotations, etc) and an inconsistent shooter to boot. Someone's going to overpay him in 18 months and regret it within 2 months of the season starting.

Agree with RipPizzaGuy, the Kings should try to jettison the vets and give young guys their time. The absolute worst case is they suck and you lose more, but that gives you a high pick in what looks like a solid draft. Best case? They don't suck and maybe you've got a decent bench to work with next year.

Trying to take shortcuts with the likes of Simmons or Myles Turner/Sabonis or taking on Tobias Harris to maybe improve by a few wins? Just a waste.

That's fair enough. I think it's a little harsh on Reddish, the kid is just 22 still. I would agree if he is signing an extension in 18 months it will be a lot more than what he is worth. That is why the controlling team needs to lock him in this off season. I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks did just that and it proves to be a great contract.

I also agree with RipPizzaGuy, I think the majority are on the same page, but the reality is the organization isn't. That is what I'm trying to work with.
If it were up to me, I would be trading for as many picks as possible too. Barnes needs to go for whatever picks we can get or a quality young player. Bagley, try and toss him to someone for a quick look at a young guy, Buddy can go for whatever.
I still don't see a scenario where Fox/Hali/Mitchell are on the same team and are happy, but I can see why others would be optimistic.

[LightTheBeam]

As for Barnes, we did miss out on Reddish. I really wanted Gallo/Reddish for Barnes. But it seems the 2 teams didn't align. Hawks wanted a pick there, not a player. Now that doesn't mean we still can't make a move with them.

Barnes for Gallo + 1 of Hunter/Johnson
Barnes for Williams + salary
Barnes for KCP + Deni or Rui?
Barnes for Nesmith and salary

I do like getting O'Neale as well, but he wouldn't be my first choice. Id certainly still do that move if its what it came down to though.

Much rather try to get a pick and useful salary for Barnes. While I still believe Mitchell was a horrible **** pick I think that Monte's strategy will work more often than it won't (ie going all in on BPA)--thus acquiring picks is better. Also gives players some minutes this year.

Likely. Its really hard to say what Monte has done so far.

Haliburton was an absolute no brainer of a pick. He was projected to go as high as 5. Easy decision.

Mitchell was a bad pick at the time, and I still don't like it. If you are committing to Mitchell/Hali, then trade Fox already. If you think Mitchell caps out as the 3rd guard, then I hate it even more.

Mitchell didn't want to be here. He's severely undersized. He wasn't a good college shooter his first two years. Hes older than most players. If they wanted to go with a guard I preferred a high upside one like Bouknight. If they wanted to go with an older player ready to contribute I preferred Duarte or Kispert. and if they wanted to take a big swing I liked Sengun/Moody.

Davion is a dog and I think they hoped him being a defender/champion could have changed the mentality of this team, but I said it this offseason.. If your big hope to improving is #9 overall pick rookie, you are going to be disappointed more often than not.

Further about Monte. I really don't like what I've seen. I'll hold my judgement until this deadline passes, but I get the feeling hes just going to always play it safe. If you wanted to make the playoffs, you shoulda made a move over the offseason or 1 month ago. If you wanted to tank a bit you should have done it in the offseason or 1 month ago. Inactivity is the worst action for this GM. Hes had 2 years to evaluate this team. Its still Vlades team. He held onto Walton until the very last possible moment. That isn't a promising sign. Maybe its Vivek handcuffing him, but if thats the case id quit my job anyways.

If we spend a few 2nds trying to get non needle movers this deadline (like we did last deadline), i'll be disgusted.

[LightTheBeam]

I still don't see a scenario where Fox/Hali/Mitchell are on the same team and are happy, but I can see why others would be optimistic.

I have no real ties to Mitchell. Honestly nothing I've seen makes me believe hes a long term solution for this team.

That's why I said I'm anti band-aid solution. But if you can get Myles Turner for Mitchell + Barnes. Id do it and not think twice.

That makes Holmes expendable and added to the list of moved vets.

Fox/Hali/Turner as the core. At least then you have 3 above average pieces. Hopefully you can put some youth around that.

[sacking123]

Reddish sucks. Defensive player who sucks at the useful parts of defense (the team part, rotations, etc) and an inconsistent shooter to boot. Someone's going to overpay him in 18 months and regret it within 2 months of the season starting.

Agree with RipPizzaGuy, the Kings should try to jettison the vets and give young guys their time. The absolute worst case is they suck and you lose more, but that gives you a high pick in what looks like a solid draft. Best case? They don't suck and maybe you've got a decent bench to work with next year.

Trying to take shortcuts with the likes of Simmons or Myles Turner/Sabonis or taking on Tobias Harris to maybe improve by a few wins? Just a waste.

Reddish is interesting. Hes inconsistent but id love to see him outside of Atlanta. I think offensively he could take a leap, but hasn't really had the opportunity there with so many mouths to feed. Both Atlanta and Reddish will be happy separating. You are right in that he probably woulda came here and his inconsistencies would shine more, where as I think NY/Thibs give him the opportunity to make the leap.

I'm with you for the majority of taking short cuts. I think if you can get Turner for cheap you should explore it. He could be a true core piece, and I would love to see him and Hali in the PNR. He hasn't had a play maker like Hali in Indiana, maybe ever. So I think theres still another level of his game that has been unexplored. But ya, if we trade for someone like Tobias I will be even more depressed on this teams outlook.

Thats why trading vets for youth makes the most sense. And you have to do it now.

Barnes has 1.5 years left on his deal, he seems to be declining anyways. So the longer you wait, the less return you can get for him.
Buddy has 2.5 years left, but his deal is declining. He brings an obvious skill set, and one that gets you paid in the NBA. Maybe we can wait another year and trade him for a better return, but he clearly doesn't bring effort or want to be here. So trading him is absolutely addition by subtraction.

The rest of the vets don't have a ton of value. But they are expiring deals and could prove to be worthy of playing on contenders. They serve no value here. So getting anything for them is a win.

Yep agreed.

Adding to Hali, what I would like is someone that can hit the 3 pair up with Hali. Honestly, he could be one the best guards in the NBA if paired with someone like Turner that can P&R and P&P. It would open up the lanes for Hali so much, it would be a lay up line for him.

I will say on Buddy, and I could be completely wrong on this. I have noticed a couple of times Hali has just ignored him when he is speaking to him. Makes me think
I don't think players are upset about Buddy's effort on D, but he just doesn't understand how to play D (he is the one guy on the team though that has to stand up continually as the opposition go after him).

[LightTheBeam]

Reddish sucks. Defensive player who sucks at the useful parts of defense (the team part, rotations, etc) and an inconsistent shooter to boot. Someone's going to overpay him in 18 months and regret it within 2 months of the season starting.

Agree with RipPizzaGuy, the Kings should try to jettison the vets and give young guys their time. The absolute worst case is they suck and you lose more, but that gives you a high pick in what looks like a solid draft. Best case? They don't suck and maybe you've got a decent bench to work with next year.

Trying to take shortcuts with the likes of Simmons or Myles Turner/Sabonis or taking on Tobias Harris to maybe improve by a few wins? Just a waste.

Reddish is interesting. Hes inconsistent but id love to see him outside of Atlanta. I think offensively he could take a leap, but hasn't really had the opportunity there with so many mouths to feed. Both Atlanta and Reddish will be happy separating. You are right in that he probably woulda came here and his inconsistencies would shine more, where as I think NY/Thibs give him the opportunity to make the leap.

I'm with you for the majority of taking short cuts. I think if you can get Turner for cheap you should explore it. He could be a true core piece, and I would love to see him and Hali in the PNR. He hasn't had a play maker like Hali in Indiana, maybe ever. So I think theres still another level of his game that has been unexplored. But ya, if we trade for someone like Tobias I will be even more depressed on this teams outlook.

Thats why trading vets for youth makes the most sense. And you have to do it now.

Barnes has 1.5 years left on his deal, he seems to be declining anyways. So the longer you wait, the less return you can get for him.
Buddy has 2.5 years left, but his deal is declining. He brings an obvious skill set, and one that gets you paid in the NBA. Maybe we can wait another year and trade him for a better return, but he clearly doesn't bring effort or want to be here. So trading him is absolutely addition by subtraction.

The rest of the vets don't have a ton of value. But they are expiring deals and could prove to be worthy of playing on contenders. They serve no value here. So getting anything for them is a win.

Yep agreed.

Adding to Hali, what I would like is someone that can hit the 3 pair up with Hali. Honestly, he could be one the best guards in the NBA if paired with someone like Turner that can P&R and P&P. It would open up the lanes for Hali so much, it would be a lay up line for him.

I will say on Buddy, and I could be completely wrong on this. I have noticed a couple of times Hali has just ignored him when he is speaking to him. Makes me think
I don't think players are upset about Buddy's effort on D, but he just doesn't understand how to play D (he is the one guy on the team though that has to stand up continually as the opposition go after him).

About Buddy. I've seen his arguments with Harkless on the side.

To be honest, I think the team/Gentry/Monte all know that hes given up. The optics of benching him would be terrible in a trade scenario. So I think they continue playing him and hope someone offers value for him.

[rpa]

That's fair enough. I think it's a little harsh on Reddish, the kid is just 22 still. I would agree if he is signing an extension in 18 months it will be a lot more than what he is worth. That is why the controlling team needs to lock him in this off season. I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks did just that and it proves to be a great contract.

Sure, but I think you've also got to realize that the only reason we're talking about Reddish is because he was a lottery pick, not because of him player exceedingly well. And why was he a lottery pick? Well, it sure wasn't because of anything he did at Duke where he looked like utter garbage (14/4/2 on a sub 50% TS%).

I guess my point here is that Reddish hasn't done anything since high school to make me think he'd ever be a good player and his best accomplishments since then are playing at Duke (but not well) and getting drafted in the lottery (which means nothing). If Reddish were drafted where his play at Duke dictated (2nd round) no one would be talking about him.

[rpa]

Likely. Its really hard to say what Monte has done so far.

Haliburton was an absolute no brainer of a pick. He was projected to go as high as 5. Easy decision.

To play devil's advocate: if Haliburton hadn't worked out would you have blamed him for trying to catch a falling knife?

Drafting is hard. I don't care where you draft. If the player turns out good you should be applauded. If he turns out to suck then we can start talking about booing (depending on the pick or not).

Mitchell was a bad pick at the time, and I still don't like it. If you are committing to Mitchell/Hali, then trade Fox already. If you think Mitchell caps out as the 3rd guard, then I hate it even more.

Mitchell didn't want to be here. He's severely undersized. He wasn't a good college shooter his first two years. Hes older than most players. If they wanted to go with a guard I preferred a high upside one like Bouknight. If they wanted to go with an older player ready to contribute I preferred Duarte or Kispert. and if they wanted to take a big swing I liked Sengun/Moody.

Davion is a dog and I think they hoped him being a defender/champion could have changed the mentality of this team, but I said it this offseason.. If your big hope to improving is #9 overall pick rookie, you are going to be disappointed more often than not.

Further about Monte. I really don't like what I've seen. I'll hold my judgement until this deadline passes, but I get the feeling hes just going to always play it safe. If you wanted to make the playoffs, you shoulda made a move over the offseason or 1 month ago. If you wanted to tank a bit you should have done it in the offseason or 1 month ago. Inactivity is the worst action for this GM. Hes had 2 years to evaluate this team. Its still Vlades team. He held onto Walton until the very last possible moment. That isn't a promising sign. Maybe its Vivek handcuffing him, but if thats the case id quit my job anyways.

If we spend a few 2nds trying to get non needle movers this deadline (like we did last deadline), i'll be disgusted.

One of my favorite sayings is "don't confuse motion for progress" and that's why I'll continue to back Monte a little longer. Well, that and the fact that there's a high chance that Vivek blocked at least something he's wanted to do.

Point being: this team sucks; it has sucked; and it's going to suck for at least a few more years. I don't want the team to make moves without a realistic longterm plan. So, in that sense, doing nothing may actually be the best plan since it allows you to clear the roster more easily without giving up assets and gives you time to replace those vets with younger guys.

So when people are yelling at Monte (here or on KingsHerald) to "DO SOMETHING!" I just shake my head. Vlade did a lot of somethings, but most of them were bad. Doing something isn't the sign of progress. Making impatient moves for the chance of short term pleasure isn't much progress either.

[sacking123]

That's fair enough. I think it's a little harsh on Reddish, the kid is just 22 still. I would agree if he is signing an extension in 18 months it will be a lot more than what he is worth. That is why the controlling team needs to lock him in this off season. I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks did just that and it proves to be a great contract.

Sure, but I think you've also got to realize that the only reason we're talking about Reddish is because he was a lottery pick, not because of him player exceedingly well. And why was he a lottery pick? Well, it sure wasn't because of anything he did at Duke where he looked like utter garbage (14/4/2 on a sub 50% TS%).

I guess my point here is that Reddish hasn't done anything since high school to make me think he'd ever be a good player and his best accomplishments since then are playing at Duke (but not well) and getting drafted in the lottery (which means nothing). If Reddish were drafted where his play at Duke dictated (2nd round) no one would be talking about him.

I think I mainly like him from watching him in last year's POs. And sure, it was a 4-game sample, but that is the type of player many see in him.
He is sure to get a real opportunity in New York. I don't think anyone see's superstar potential in him, but could he be a #4 piece on a championship team? I would certainly think so, particularly as a swiss army knife defender than can score a bit.

[rpa]

I think I mainly like him from watching him in last year's POs. And sure, it was a 4-game sample, but that is the type of player many see in him.
He is sure to get a real opportunity in New York. I don't think anyone see's superstar potential in him, but could he be a #4 piece on a championship team? I would certainly think so, particularly as a swiss army knife defender than can score a bit.

The road to salary cap hell is littered with the dead corpses of contracts offered due to a "breakout playoff performance".

[LightTheBeam]

One of my favorite sayings is "don't confuse motion for progress" and that's why I'll continue to back Monte a little longer. Well, that and the fact that there's a high chance that Vivek blocked at least something he's wanted to do.

Point being: this team sucks; it has sucked; and it's going to suck for at least a few more years. I don't want the team to make moves without a realistic longterm plan. So, in that sense, doing nothing may actually be the best plan since it allows you to clear the roster more easily without giving up assets and gives you time to replace those vets with younger guys.

So when people are yelling at Monte (here or on KingsHerald) to "DO SOMETHING!" I just shake my head. Vlade did a lot of somethings, but most of them were bad. Doing something isn't the sign of progress. Making impatient moves for the chance of short term pleasure isn't much progress either.

This is fair. But I don't want us to do something just to do it. I want us to make a move and pick a direction. If you are dead set on moving towards the playoffs make your damn move.

If you are comfortable taking those 2 years to really get better, then what is the excuse for holding Barnes and watching his value continue to diminish?

I get it. Don't make a move just to make a move. But pick a damn direction and stick to it.

[rpa]

This is fair. But I don't want us to do something just to do it. I want us to make a move and pick a direction. If you are dead set on moving towards the playoffs make your damn move.

If you are comfortable taking those 2 years to really get better, then what is the excuse for holding Barnes and watching his value continue to diminish?

I get it. Don't make a move just to make a move. But pick a damn direction and stick to it.

My hope above hopes is the situation is this (it probably isn't):

Vivek is delusional and wants the playoffs. Monte knows this team sucks and that we can't get there and short sighted moves won't success and only serve up more failure. Monte makes no moves. Vivek asks why. Monte says "because players who will get us to the playoffs are ones we can't afford or aren't available" (and maybe gives Vivek some background on the analytics). Eventually one of three things happens:
1) Vivek fires Monte (and fans probably revolt--at least the smart ones do).
2) Vivek realizes we suck and embraces a youthful rebuild so he can sell "potential" and "fun" to the fans.
3) Vivek still wants the playoffs, but without the shortsighted moves we suck just enough to sort of rebuild--though without the ancillary assets we'd have gotten via a teardown.

If Monte is smart then (3) is probably the most likely. Sadly I think that's followed by (1).

[sacking123]

I think I mainly like him from watching him in last year's POs. And sure, it was a 4-game sample, but that is the type of player many see in him.
He is sure to get a real opportunity in New York. I don't think anyone see's superstar potential in him, but could he be a #4 piece on a championship team? I would certainly think so, particularly as a swiss army knife defender than can score a bit.

The road to salary cap hell is littered with the dead corpses of contracts offered due to a "breakout playoff performance".

Absolutely. That's two different things though. Liking a player because of what he was like in the POs doesn't equate to giving him a cap hell deal.
I don't think Reddish is going to be signing a 4/100 deal or anything, do you? Or does anyone?
Maybe he won't sign to bank on himself, but even then there are options.
I'm not going to throw a number out there, but there's every chance he signs for a number that will be considered a bargain in a couple of years.

[LightTheBeam]

This is fair. But I don't want us to do something just to do it. I want us to make a move and pick a direction. If you are dead set on moving towards the playoffs make your damn move.

If you are comfortable taking those 2 years to really get better, then what is the excuse for holding Barnes and watching his value continue to diminish?

I get it. Don't make a move just to make a move. But pick a damn direction and stick to it.

My hope above hopes is the situation is this (it probably isn't):

Vivek is delusional and wants the playoffs. Monte knows this team sucks and that we can't get there and short sighted moves won't success and only serve up more failure. Monte makes no moves. Vivek asks why. Monte says "because players who will get us to the playoffs are ones we can't afford or aren't available" (and maybe gives Vivek some background on the analytics). Eventually one of three things happens:
1) Vivek fires Monte (and fans probably revolt--at least the smart ones do).
2) Vivek realizes we suck and embraces a youthful rebuild so he can sell "potential" and "fun" to the fans.
3) Vivek still wants the playoffs, but without the shortsighted moves we suck just enough to sort of rebuild--though without the ancillary assets we'd have gotten via a teardown.

If Monte is smart then (3) is probably the most likely. Sadly I think that's followed by (1).

The sad thing is how Vivek doesn't realize this. He's clearly only in it for financial profits. Hes owned the team for almost 9 years and has tried the same approach year after year. Players, GM's, and Coaches have all changed, he remains the only constant.

He could have agreed to a tear down 4 years ago, and we would likely be in a great position now.

I think fans hate where we are now more than anything. This team isn't "fun" to watch. It isn't a particularly young team. Its not competitive half 60% of the time. OKC fans surely enjoy their process more than we do.

Even if you don't commit to a full on tear down, just trading vets for youth would energize the fan base. I remember clearly in 2013, the Kings were absolute trash. We traded for Derrick Williams, I don't remember if it was his first game or one of his firsts. I remember being at the arena and watching him catch an ally-oop and the fan base felt erupted. Obviously Williams sucked, but just an odd memory I have of feeling like this 22 year old recent 2nd overall pick could bring a change.

I don't think anything is worse than watching this same aging roster go out and get blown out 3/5th of their games. This is probably one of the worst seasons I can recall in recent memory. From a pure excitement prospective. At least watching Cousins dominate some games was fun.

[sacking123]

This is fair. But I don't want us to do something just to do it. I want us to make a move and pick a direction. If you are dead set on moving towards the playoffs make your damn move.

If you are comfortable taking those 2 years to really get better, then what is the excuse for holding Barnes and watching his value continue to diminish?

I get it. Don't make a move just to make a move. But pick a damn direction and stick to it.

My hope above hopes is the situation is this (it probably isn't):

Vivek is delusional and wants the playoffs. Monte knows this team sucks and that we can't get there and short sighted moves won't success and only serve up more failure. Monte makes no moves. Vivek asks why. Monte says "because players who will get us to the playoffs are ones we can't afford or aren't available" (and maybe gives Vivek some background on the analytics). Eventually one of three things happens:
1) Vivek fires Monte (and fans probably revolt--at least the smart ones do).
2) Vivek realizes we suck and embraces a youthful rebuild so he can sell "potential" and "fun" to the fans.
3) Vivek still wants the playoffs, but without the shortsighted moves we suck just enough to sort of rebuild--though without the ancillary assets we'd have gotten via a teardown.

If Monte is smart then (3) is probably the most likely. Sadly I think that's followed by (1).

The sad thing is how Vivek doesn't realize this. He's clearly only in it for financial profits. Hes owned the team for almost 9 years and has tried the same approach year after year. Players, GM's, and Coaches have all changed, he remains the only constant.

He could have agreed to a tear down 4 years ago, and we would likely be in a great position now.

I think fans hate where we are now more than anything. This team isn't "fun" to watch. It isn't a particularly young team. Its not competitive half 60% of the time. OKC fans surely enjoy their process more than we do.

Even if you don't commit to a full on tear down, just trading vets for youth would energize the fan base. I remember clearly in 2013, the Kings were absolute trash. We traded for Derrick Williams, I don't remember if it was his first game or one of his firsts. I remember being at the arena and watching him catch an ally-oop and the fan base felt erupted. Obviously Williams sucked, but just an odd memory I have of feeling like this 22 year old recent 2nd overall pick could bring a change.

I don't think anything is worse than watching this same aging roster go out and get blown out 3/5th of their games. This is probably one of the worst seasons I can recall in recent memory. From a pure excitement prospective. At least watching Cousins dominate some games was fun.

Couldn't agree more. I think the fan base would have been happy with running this roster back had there been an improvement to their individual games, team strategy etc, but it's literally the same thing over and over again.

This is the only concern I have with Fox. Since he entered the NBA every off season the focus has always been, Fox is getting stronger, he is putting on muscle etc. What coaching staff worth a damn wouldn't have said, don't worry about getting bigger, work on your outside shot, work on your D, this is what will take you to the next level. The weight, the strength will come over time.

[rpa]

This is the only concern I have with Fox. Since he entered the NBA every off season the focus has always been, Fox is getting stronger, he is putting on muscle etc. What coaching staff worth a damn wouldn't have said, don't worry about getting bigger, work on your outside shot, work on your D, this is what will take you to the next level. The weight, the strength will come over time.

2018-2019 Fox (2nd--and last--season under Joeger): 37% from 3pt range, +0.2DBPM, +2.5DWS, -0.1 D-RAPTOR
2019-2020 Fox (3rd season, first under Walton): 29% from 3pt range, -0.5DBPM, +1.4DWS, -2.0 D-RAPTOR
2020-2021 Fox (4th season, second under Walton): 32% from 3pt range, -1.3DBPM, +0.8DWS, -2.7 D-RAPTOR
2021-2022 Fox (5th season, third under Walton): 24% from 3pt range, -1.1DBPM, +0.6DWS, -3.7 D-RAPTOR

[LightTheBeam]

This is the only concern I have with Fox. Since he entered the NBA every off season the focus has always been, Fox is getting stronger, he is putting on muscle etc. What coaching staff worth a damn wouldn't have said, don't worry about getting bigger, work on your outside shot, work on your D, this is what will take you to the next level. The weight, the strength will come over time.

2018-2019 Fox (2nd--and last--season under Joeger): 37% from 3pt range, +0.2DBPM, +2.5DWS, -0.1 D-RAPTOR
2019-2020 Fox (3rd season, first under Walton): 29% from 3pt range, -0.5DBPM, +1.4DWS, -2.0 D-RAPTOR
2020-2021 Fox (4th season, second under Walton): 32% from 3pt range, -1.3DBPM, +0.8DWS, -2.7 D-RAPTOR
2021-2022 Fox (5th season, third under Walton): 24% from 3pt range, -1.1DBPM, +0.6DWS, -3.7 D-RAPTOR

Yup he and almost our entire team was hampered by Walton.

But its pretty clear fox isn't a savior. He isn't a top 10 player we all hoped he could be.

But I hate that we've scape goated him as the problem. There's probably less than 10 players that could drag this roster to the playoffs. Now does that mean we trade him and search for our true top 10 player? Is there a reason we can't add that player to fox/hali?

I'm not really sure the answer. But I think when fox ultimately finds his way out of sac, we will see that "leap"

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[sacking123]

This is the only concern I have with Fox. Since he entered the NBA every off season the focus has always been, Fox is getting stronger, he is putting on muscle etc. What coaching staff worth a damn wouldn't have said, don't worry about getting bigger, work on your outside shot, work on your D, this is what will take you to the next level. The weight, the strength will come over time.

2018-2019 Fox (2nd--and last--season under Joeger): 37% from 3pt range, +0.2DBPM, +2.5DWS, -0.1 D-RAPTOR
2019-2020 Fox (3rd season, first under Walton): 29% from 3pt range, -0.5DBPM, +1.4DWS, -2.0 D-RAPTOR
2020-2021 Fox (4th season, second under Walton): 32% from 3pt range, -1.3DBPM, +0.8DWS, -2.7 D-RAPTOR
2021-2022 Fox (5th season, third under Walton): 24% from 3pt range, -1.1DBPM, +0.6DWS, -3.7 D-RAPTOR

The 2018-19 numbers are on 2.9 attempts per game. He only just qualified as a league leader. When you look at his shooting overall it seems like that season, his second least amount of attempts other than his rookie season, was an outlier. He also shot that same % from 3 foot to the 3pt line as well that season.

Literally every season it's his biggest knock, including when coming into the NBA, shooting .246 in college.

I'm still a believer that he can become a 36% shooter from range at 6 attempts per game. I don't believe he is anywhere near that currently.

[BoogieTime]

My hope above hopes is the situation is this (it probably isn't):

Vivek is delusional and wants the playoffs. Monte knows this team sucks and that we can't get there and short sighted moves won't success and only serve up more failure. Monte makes no moves. Vivek asks why. Monte says "because players who will get us to the playoffs are ones we can't afford or aren't available" (and maybe gives Vivek some background on the analytics). Eventually one of three things happens:
1) Vivek fires Monte (and fans probably revolt--at least the smart ones do).
2) Vivek realizes we suck and embraces a youthful rebuild so he can sell "potential" and "fun" to the fans.
3) Vivek still wants the playoffs, but without the shortsighted moves we suck just enough to sort of rebuild--though without the ancillary assets we'd have gotten via a teardown.

If Monte is smart then (3) is probably the most likely. Sadly I think that's followed by (1).

The sad thing is how Vivek doesn't realize this. He's clearly only in it for financial profits. Hes owned the team for almost 9 years and has tried the same approach year after year. Players, GM's, and Coaches have all changed, he remains the only constant.

He could have agreed to a tear down 4 years ago, and we would likely be in a great position now.

I think fans hate where we are now more than anything. This team isn't "fun" to watch. It isn't a particularly young team. Its not competitive half 60% of the time. OKC fans surely enjoy their process more than we do.

Even if you don't commit to a full on tear down, just trading vets for youth would energize the fan base. I remember clearly in 2013, the Kings were absolute trash. We traded for Derrick Williams, I don't remember if it was his first game or one of his firsts. I remember being at the arena and watching him catch an ally-oop and the fan base felt erupted. Obviously Williams sucked, but just an odd memory I have of feeling like this 22 year old recent 2nd overall pick could bring a change.

I don't think anything is worse than watching this same aging roster go out and get blown out 3/5th of their games. This is probably one of the worst seasons I can recall in recent memory. From a pure excitement prospective. At least watching Cousins dominate some games was fun.

Couldn't agree more. I think the fan base would have been happy with running this roster back had there been an improvement to their individual games, team strategy etc, but it's literally the same thing over and over again.

This is the only concern I have with Fox. Since he entered the NBA every off season the focus has always been, Fox is getting stronger, he is putting on muscle etc. What coaching staff worth a damn wouldn't have said, don't worry about getting bigger, work on your outside shot, work on your D, this is what will take you to the next level. The weight, the strength will come over time.

None. I'm sure he's been told by many people by now to do that. Monte McNair in the media spoke at the end of last year that that's what he needed to work on in the offseason (defense and shooting). I dont know about the weight part.