2024-25 General Thread

[LightTheBeam]

Curious how we fill out the rest of the roster. We know that during the season especially early on Mike likes a solid 10 man rotation. With Carter out I see

Starters - Fox - Keon - DeRozan - Keegan - Sabonis
Bench - Monk - Huerter - Lyles - Len
Possible part of bench - JMac, McDaniels, Colby Jones
Injured - Carter

I see two open roster spots. Biggest need is a forward and probably a 3rd string center.

I really like Precious as an option. I could see him taking Len's spot on the bench. And he could function as a backup PF if needed.

Cedi is nice, but I'm guessing he wants more of a promised role which IDK if we can offer. Reggie Bullock is available and could be good veteran insurance?

[LightTheBeam]

Sasha agreed to a buy out giving up his entire 6.6 million remaining salary.

I'm curious, without that trade, would the Kings be past the first apron? If not then it's looking a little worst at this point.
Davion for Jalen doesn't matter, two bad players. but we gave up a quality 2nd for this deal.

[madskillz8]

Sasha agreed to a buy out giving up his entire 6.6 million remaining salary.

I'm curious, without that trade, would the Kings be past the first apron? If not then it's looking a little worst at this point.
Davion for Jalen doesn't matter, two bad players. but we gave up a quality 2nd for this deal.

No, the way they agreed, Vezenkov's contract is cleared off their books completely.

Thus we basically lost 25 portland SRP (31-35 range thus more valuable than a late FRP) for nothing. At the expense of what? Not dealing with his buyout. Great job!

Not even saying we gave up 2 rotational pieces for 0, making our depth way worse than last year... Now our 9th best player is Alex Len and there is no rotational wing other than Keegan. Great off-season!

[metafisical]

Sasha agreed to a buy out giving up his entire 6.6 million remaining salary.

I'm curious, without that trade, would the Kings be past the first apron? If not then it's looking a little worst at this point.
Davion for Jalen doesn't matter, two bad players. but we gave up a quality 2nd for this deal.

No, the way they agreed, Vezenkov's contract is cleared off their books completely.

Thus we basically lost 25 portland SRP (31-35 range thus more valuable than a late FRP) for nothing. At the expense of what? Not dealing with his buyout. Great job!

Not even saying we gave up 2 rotational pieces for 0, making our depth way worse than last year... Now our 9th best player is Alex Len and there is no rotational wing other than Keegan. Great off-season!

The situations may be different. Your team may not have wanted to deal with the risk of Vezenkov not wanting to be bought out. Plus your team needed and wanted to make moves this off-season.

The Raptors can afford to be patient and did not (and still does not) need to make many free agent moves. It's not like we are contenders or anything. Our ceiling is play-in, at best, and then getting swept by Boston in the first round.

[LightTheBeam]

Sasha agreed to a buy out giving up his entire 6.6 million remaining salary.

I'm curious, without that trade, would the Kings be past the first apron? If not then it's looking a little worst at this point.
Davion for Jalen doesn't matter, two bad players. but we gave up a quality 2nd for this deal.

No, the way they agreed, Vezenkov's contract is cleared off their books completely.

Thus we basically lost 25 portland SRP (31-35 range thus more valuable than a late FRP) for nothing. At the expense of what? Not dealing with his buyout. Great job!

Not even saying we gave up 2 rotational pieces for 0, making our depth way worse than last year... Now our 9th best player is Alex Len and there is no rotational wing other than Keegan. Great off-season!

Are you sure about this?

I'm under the impression that even with a buy out, the money still counts against the books. Owner saves money
but dead money for the team. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/toronto-raptors/cap/_/year/2024

I'll keep an eye above to see how they update accordingly.

I disagree with your next few thoughts. Losing the early 2nd kinda sucks, but considering how many 2nds changed hands at the draft it's not too hard to buy one of those.

As for the depth argument, I'm not seeing it. Our opening day rotation last year vs this years

Fox/Mitchell
Huerter/Monk
Keegan/Duarte
Barnes/Lyles/Sasha
Sabonis/Len

It's arguable that Len last year was our 8th best player lol.

Fox/Monk/JMac
Keon/Carter
DeRozan/Huerter/McDaniels
Keegan/Lyles
Sabonis/Len

So we replaced Duarte/Mitchell/Barnes/Sasha/Edwards with Carter/DeRozan/Keon/JMac/McDaniels.

Obviously we need to wait for Carter to get healthy for that to materialize, but IMO JMac/Colby are both guys id rather give minutes to than Mitchell.

We got Demar freaking DeRozan for Harrison Barnes, I really can't understand some of the gloom amongst kings fans lol. That is massive.

[madskillz8]

Sasha agreed to a buy out giving up his entire 6.6 million remaining salary.

I'm curious, without that trade, would the Kings be past the first apron? If not then it's looking a little worst at this point.
Davion for Jalen doesn't matter, two bad players. but we gave up a quality 2nd for this deal.

No, the way they agreed, Vezenkov's contract is cleared off their books completely.

Thus we basically lost 25 portland SRP (31-35 range thus more valuable than a late FRP) for nothing. At the expense of what? Not dealing with his buyout. Great job!

Not even saying we gave up 2 rotational pieces for 0, making our depth way worse than last year... Now our 9th best player is Alex Len and there is no rotational wing other than Keegan. Great off-season!

The situations may be different. Your team may not have wanted to deal with the risk of Vezenkov not wanting to be bought out. Plus your team needed and wanted to make moves this off-season.

The Raptors can afford to be patient and did not (and still does not) need to make many free agent moves. It's not like we are contenders or anything. Our ceiling is play-in, at best, and then getting swept by Boston in the first round.

I know I know, they don't want to deal with the potential drama and uncertainties. It was evident.

But Kings FO looked in rush, to create a space for something bigger, to no avail. That's why I am angry now, lol. They had months to deal Vezenkov by attaching something if buyout talks went south (not north, ironically). We lost a valuable asset for nothing (since 25 draft supposed to be deep).

[madskillz8]

Are you sure about this?

I'm under the impression that even with a buy out, the money still counts against the books. Owner saves money
but dead money for the team. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/toronto-raptors/cap/_/year/2024

I'll keep an eye above to see how they update accordingly.

Unfortunately, yes.

I initially thought that's not the case, thinking about buyouts we often see - a star player has a big contract but team decides to tank so both sides agree on making it say 40m to 35m. Thus, large chunk of the salary remains in the cap. We rarely see buyouts where players give up whole (or big portion of the) salary which initially misled us to think we are actually desperate to get rid of salary of Vezenkov. We could have the buyout without sending POR pick. If there's a problem with the buyout, we could have sent him elsewhere attaching POR pick, or use him as a filler in say J.Grant trade. Awful asset and risk management, IMHO.

[LightTheBeam]

Are you sure about this?

I'm under the impression that even with a buy out, the money still counts against the books. Owner saves money
but dead money for the team. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/toronto-raptors/cap/_/year/2024

I'll keep an eye above to see how they update accordingly.

Unfortunately, yes.

I initially thought that's not the case, thinking about buyouts we often see - a star player has a big contract but team decides to tank so both sides agree on making it say 40m to 35m. Thus, large chunk of the salary remains in the cap. We rarely see buyouts where players give up whole (or big portion of the) salary which initially misled us to think we are actually desperate to get rid of salary of Vezenkov. We could have the buyout without sending POR pick. If there's a problem with the buyout, we could have sent him elsewhere attaching POR pick, or use him as a filler in say J.Grant trade. Awful asset and risk management, IMHO.

Ya if that's the case the trade doesn't look good.

I'm not terribly mad because again I don't have some huge value on 2nds. But it looks like an overpay.

Davion for Jalen McDaniels, saves a few million and then we buy out Sasha sure. At this point we gave Toronto 2 2nds for nothing. oh well.

[Mark_83]

Are you guys planning to hang onto Isaiah Crawford or do you think management has other plans for the two-way spot?

[codydaze]

Are you guys planning to hang onto Isaiah Crawford or do you think management has other plans for the two-way spot?

I think him, Isaac Jones and Mason Jones are all pretty much locked in to their two way deals at this point. I think it's more likely one would be converted to a standard deal at some point than let go from their two way.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Sasha agreed to a buy out giving up his entire 6.6 million remaining salary.

I'm curious, without that trade, would the Kings be past the first apron? If not then it's looking a little worst at this point.
Davion for Jalen doesn't matter, two bad players. but we gave up a quality 2nd for this deal.

another example of how inept McNair is. I especially hurts knowing Christie was still on the board with our 2nd round pick. Kid is 18 y/o and hit like 7 threes in his last game. He was around 20th on my big board. Ughhhh.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Sasha agreed to a buy out giving up his entire 6.6 million remaining salary.

I'm curious, without that trade, would the Kings be past the first apron? If not then it's looking a little worst at this point.
Davion for Jalen doesn't matter, two bad players. but we gave up a quality 2nd for this deal.

No, the way they agreed, Vezenkov's contract is cleared off their books completely.

Thus we basically lost 25 portland SRP (31-35 range thus more valuable than a late FRP) for nothing. At the expense of what? Not dealing with his buyout. Great job!

Not even saying we gave up 2 rotational pieces for 0, making our depth way worse than last year... Now our 9th best player is Alex Len and there is no rotational wing other than Keegan. Great off-season!

The situations may be different. Your team may not have wanted to deal with the risk of Vezenkov not wanting to be bought out. Plus your team needed and wanted to make moves this off-season.

The Raptors can afford to be patient and did not (and still does not) need to make many free agent moves. It's not like we are contenders or anything. Our ceiling is play-in, at best, and then getting swept by Boston in the first round.

our ceiling isn't much better sadly

[LightTheBeam]

This board.

Monte gets Demar Derozan for Harrison Barnes. Meh...
We wasted a 2nd round pick. THE WORLD IS OVER, team will forever be bad.

Perspective. Holy crap guys come on.

[LightTheBeam]

I think him, Isaac Jones and Mason Jones are all pretty much locked in to their two way deals at this point. I think it's more likely one would be converted to a standard deal at some point than let go from their two way.

Haven't had a chance to watch much summer league, but Crawford was exciting to me when they grabbed him. How has he looked? He is already 22 wonder if he could be the backup wing answer.

[typedrat]

No, the way they agreed, Vezenkov's contract is cleared off their books completely.

Thus we basically lost 25 portland SRP (31-35 range thus more valuable than a late FRP) for nothing. At the expense of what? Not dealing with his buyout. Great job!

Not even saying we gave up 2 rotational pieces for 0, making our depth way worse than last year... Now our 9th best player is Alex Len and there is no rotational wing other than Keegan. Great off-season!

The situations may be different. Your team may not have wanted to deal with the risk of Vezenkov not wanting to be bought out. Plus your team needed and wanted to make moves this off-season.

The Raptors can afford to be patient and did not (and still does not) need to make many free agent moves. It's not like we are contenders or anything. Our ceiling is play-in, at best, and then getting swept by Boston in the first round.

our ceiling isn't much better sadly

You need therapy, not for Monte to make different moves.

[LightTheBeam]

Have been looking at a lot of rosters, and I'm really curious if 3 guard lineups are the future of the league. It seems like all the talent is heavily focused on guards, with forwards being more shallow than ever.

Here's some examples of teams forward depth, and go look how heavily guard heavy almost all these teams are. Not even looking at non playoff teams.

Celtics - Tatum, Brown, Hauser
Milwaukee - Portis, Giannis, Khris, Prince
Cavs - Strus, Mobley, Niang, Wade
Sixers - George, Martin, KJ Martin, Oubre (projected started shooting guard)
Thunder - Jalen Williams, Kenrich Williams
Mavs - PJ, Naji, Kleber
Suns - KD, O'Neale, Little
Minnesota - McDaniels, KAT (Really a center), Naz (again a center), Ingles
Lakers - Lebron, Rui, Vando
Memphis - JJJ, GG, Vince williams Jr, Aldama
Clippers, Kawhi, Tucker, DJJ, Batum

More examples but I think this makes the point.

Some of the opening day projected SF - Strus, Khris, Klay, Grayson Allen, Desmond Bane, Nesmith.

Yes we are lacking a backup SF no doubt about it. But it seems like a trend that teams rather than forcing bad forwards, are moving towards playing more traditional shooting guards at small forward (similar to sac with DeRozan). And even the ones who have a legit SF in Minnesota, Lakers, Clippers, either the player isn't much of a worry and/or the depth is poor and they likely play a lot of 3 guard lineups.

We probably still struggle with New Orleans, though I think losing Val/Dyson/Naji is going to help us against them, but overall the league seems to be going smaller at the 3 much more often. Just a thought.

[OxAndFox]

Have been looking at a lot of rosters, and I'm really curious if 3 guard lineups are the future of the league. It seems like all the talent is heavily focused on guards, with forwards being more shallow than ever.

Here's some examples of teams forward depth, and go look how heavily guard heavy almost all these teams are. Not even looking at non playoff teams.

Celtics - Tatum, Brown, Hauser
Milwaukee - Portis, Giannis, Khris, Prince
Cavs - Strus, Mobley, Niang, Wade
Sixers - George, Martin, KJ Martin, Oubre (projected started shooting guard)
Thunder - Jalen Williams, Kenrich Williams
Mavs - PJ, Naji, Kleber
Suns - KD, O'Neale, Little
Minnesota - McDaniels, KAT (Really a center), Naz (again a center), Ingles
Lakers - Lebron, Rui, Vando
Memphis - JJJ, GG, Vince williams Jr, Aldama
Clippers, Kawhi, Tucker, DJJ, Batum

More examples but I think this makes the point.

Some of the opening day projected SF - Strus, Khris, Klay, Grayson Allen, Desmond Bane, Nesmith.

Yes we are lacking a backup SF no doubt about it. But it seems like a trend that teams rather than forcing bad forwards, are moving towards playing more traditional shooting guards at small forward (similar to sac with DeRozan). And even the ones who have a legit SF in Minnesota, Lakers, Clippers, either the player isn't much of a worry and/or the depth is poor and they likely play a lot of 3 guard lineups.

We probably still struggle with New Orleans, though I think losing Val/Dyson/Naji is going to help us against them, but overall the league seems to be going smaller at the 3 much more often. Just a thought.

Yeah I think we will see more of it moving forward.
This is where Keegan's true value comes in too. A true two way guy at 6-8 is going to be even more valuable. IMO Keegan is an underrated and developing shot blocker and semi rim protector.
Let's see how his progress is with this squad but you can see a lot of Fox/Monk/DDR/Keegan line ups and I just hope it means we see more of Lyles at the 5 to open things up for Fox/DDR. If Brown can't see how good the line ups with Lyles at the 5 can be, I question his ability to adapt to different styles.

[LightTheBeam]

Have been looking at a lot of rosters, and I'm really curious if 3 guard lineups are the future of the league. It seems like all the talent is heavily focused on guards, with forwards being more shallow than ever.

Here's some examples of teams forward depth, and go look how heavily guard heavy almost all these teams are. Not even looking at non playoff teams.

Celtics - Tatum, Brown, Hauser
Milwaukee - Portis, Giannis, Khris, Prince
Cavs - Strus, Mobley, Niang, Wade
Sixers - George, Martin, KJ Martin, Oubre (projected started shooting guard)
Thunder - Jalen Williams, Kenrich Williams
Mavs - PJ, Naji, Kleber
Suns - KD, O'Neale, Little
Minnesota - McDaniels, KAT (Really a center), Naz (again a center), Ingles
Lakers - Lebron, Rui, Vando
Memphis - JJJ, GG, Vince williams Jr, Aldama
Clippers, Kawhi, Tucker, DJJ, Batum

More examples but I think this makes the point.

Some of the opening day projected SF - Strus, Khris, Klay, Grayson Allen, Desmond Bane, Nesmith.

Yes we are lacking a backup SF no doubt about it. But it seems like a trend that teams rather than forcing bad forwards, are moving towards playing more traditional shooting guards at small forward (similar to sac with DeRozan). And even the ones who have a legit SF in Minnesota, Lakers, Clippers, either the player isn't much of a worry and/or the depth is poor and they likely play a lot of 3 guard lineups.

We probably still struggle with New Orleans, though I think losing Val/Dyson/Naji is going to help us against them, but overall the league seems to be going smaller at the 3 much more often. Just a thought.

Yeah I think we will see more of it moving forward.
This is where Keegan's true value comes in too. A true two way guy at 6-8 is going to be even more valuable. IMO Keegan is an underrated and developing shot blocker and semi rim protector.
Let's see how his progress is with this squad but you can see a lot of Fox/Monk/DDR/Keegan line ups and I just hope it means we see more of Lyles at the 5 to open things up for Fox/DDR. If Brown can't see how good the line ups with Lyles at the 5 can be, I question his ability to adapt to different styles.

Ya and this also defends Monte's vision for the Carter pick. His projections for style are similar to a Jrue Holiday/White/Bruce Brown, these are guards who are known for their ability to guard up. The concept IMO is that for the next 3 years Fox, Monk, Keon, DeRozan, Carter really lock up the 1-3 spots. Keegan/Lyles/Sabonis at 4/5 which means we probably need another swing 3/4. But even then we have a solid 8 man rotation locked up for the next 2 years minimum.

I am with you on Lyles, i thought the same thing. Then I looked at impact stats with lyles at the 5 and it wasn't pretty. I think having a DeRozan instead of Barnes definitely helps push the Lyles to 5 and makes it work significantly better. But time will tell.

[codydaze]

Read on Twitter

He played really well in Summer League, solid grab for third string C. Need to pick up another wing and the roster should be set for training camp.

[madskillz8]

A low key great signing. He definitely has range (not necessarily 3pt), thus adding something different to our C line up. Having two similar backups were meaningless (other than having them as injury replacements). Len/McGee/Queta ...

In addition to summer league, he dominated G League big time, averaging 24/12/2 with .575/.375 shooting on 1.8 attempts per game.

While some of you think this is a decent rotation and we don't need Fs at all, now imagine that Keegan is going to be sidelined for say 25-30 games. Bye bye to playoffs hopes in such a competitive conference where 5th and 10th will likely be separated by 1-2 games again. As simple as that...

Thus, we just need another low key signing at F spot who can be a surprise contributor, instead of 3rd stringer. In the mold of Batum. Covington is the one first comes to mind but I don't think he has much left in the tank. Maybe Hayward but I'd rather have a better defender even if he's worse overall player than Hayward (e.g., without passing and playmaking). Achiuwa is great fit defensively but makes zero sense next to Sabonis offensively. Who else?