Now what Happens?

[pillwenney]

Is 5 or 6 wins more really going to change anything as far as the fan base goes? Maybe it had less to do with the win loss record and more to do with the lack of excitement about the future. Nobody has any delusions about a team starting Brad Miller and Mikki Moore in their frontcourt. Fans would like better prospects than being a few extra meaningless spots higher in the standings of a conference we have absolutely no chance of competing in any time soon.

Again, you guys give casual fans too much credit. At the draft party I overheard somebody talking about how we shouldn't draft Hibbert because, among other reasons, we have Kenny and Shareef. That's what happens when a casual fan actually tries to analyze a situation, and that's better than most. For most, it's just about wins and losses.

And I don't think we're talking a difference of 5-6 wins here. We're talking at least 10. This team with Ron and Brad healthy, is a 40-win team. Without Ron, we're probably mid-30's, and without both we're late 20's. If we trade away all of our vets, I think we're probably mid 20's--about where Milwaukee was last year.

[deNIEd]

So, can someone clarify the order of vets?

- Artest didn't opt out
- Petrie didn't give Artest extension
- Artest says he regrets not opting out

Is that correct?

Also, Mitch, like you said, the average casual fan knows little to nothing about basketball. I think, in their mind, they only want excitement. I think to them, a 20 win team, of young high flying dunking 20 year old kids, doing behind the back passes is much more entertaining than a slow half court 30 year old 40 win team.

Justin Williams more exciting than Brad Miller
Quincy Douby and Francisco more exciting than Anthony Johnson
that sort of thing

[Smills91]

If Isiah was still in NY, I would suggest packaging him with SAR and KT to NY for Marbury, but Walsh won't go for it.

And why not? They're looking for 2010 cap space, that trade doesn't interfere with it. They ditch out on Marbury from the team and upgrade there overall team talent.

[deNIEd]

Artest/LeBron/Gallinari

2/3/4

combo would scare the sh*t out of me

[SacKingZZZ]

Just as I suspected and posted earlier it is clear that Petrie let it be known Artest isn't in our long term plans and most likely will be traded. Hence Ron regretting his decision to opt out because now he doesn't have much of a say so in where he goes. He could of opted out and had some control. I think it is clear Petrie is going to see what he can get for Ron over the next few weeks. Ron's gone, I wonder what we will get?

I think Ron envisioned himself on this team this year and leading us into the playoffs making himself look like a hero and getting a big contract when he becomes a free agent. Now there is a chance he gets traded to a bad team (although I don't think bad teams are interested in Ron, but I don't think Ron sees it that way), and it might make Ron look bad and he wont get his big contract next year. This is what I believe is Ron's mindset right now.

I don't even think it's that. He and his agent simply know that the only team that can guarantee him the money he wants is the team that has his Bird rights. One more year and he loses those. In a lot of ways, and I have said this before, if the Kings are simply OK with letting Ron walk it's a bit unfair to him. He let Songaila leave because he felt he could be in a better situation elsewhere and did all he could to facilitate that deal, well at a certain point I think he needs to do that right thing for Ron too. It just so happens that it would also be the right thing for the Kings as well.

[SacKingZZZ]

Now this:

C: Brad Miller, Spencer Hawes, Shelden Williams
PF: Mikki Moore, Jason Thompson, SAR, Kenny Thomas
SF: Ron Artest, Francisco Garcia, Pat Ewing Jr
SG: Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Quincy Douby
PG: Beno Udrih, Sean Singletary

That's a pretty solid line-up. I like it. If we can stay healthy I think we'll once again over exceed prognosticator predictions.

With THAT line-up in tact I'd say the Kings win 40-45 games no problem next year.

Maybe we should plan the parade now! Seriously, how does that make us ANY better than we are now for future purposes. Time is just time, unless you use is wisely.

[SacKingZZZ]

So, can someone clarify the order of vets?

- Artest didn't opt out
- Petrie didn't give Artest extension
- Artest says he regrets not opting out

Is that correct?

Also, Mitch, like you said, the average casual fan knows little to nothing about basketball. I think, in their mind, they only want excitement. I think to them, a 20 win team, of young high flying dunking 20 year old kids, doing behind the back passes is much more entertaining than a slow half court 30 year old 40 win team.

Justin Williams more exciting than Brad Miller
Quincy Douby and Francisco more exciting than Anthony Johnson
that sort of thing

And it also must be noted that the casual fans don't really pay the bills. It's the season ticket holders you hear hanging up the phone on the ticket salesperson when they find out that we are putting out the same pointlessness on the floor for another year.

When you look into the stands at ARCO arena you can clearly see that the "casual" fan left a long time ago.

[deNIEd]

^

And the season ticket holder typically has the capacity to look into the future

[Ballings7]

I'd be okay trading Ron for Julian Wright... still love Wright's game. But I don't know if NO wants to trade him and then have no youth outside of Paul and Armstrong. Hornets are high on Wright. But Ron would be just the kind of wing-player they need next to Peja, as well as an overall presence.

I don't care if it doesn't happen, though.

Artest/LeBron/Gallinari

2/3/4

combo would scare the sh*t out of me

Gallinari at the 4 (or any of them)? That only works offensively to an extent, but the size differential becomes too much against balanced and versatile teams. Typically those teams having relatively legit defense, rebounding, and big man offense. Thus negating the offensive strength of speed at PF.

[sacking123]

The casual NBA fan would only watch if the team had a chance to win it.
A season ticket holder, or an intelligent bball follower would follow that team no matter what if they know what the plan is from the owner/GM.

[Sac Fan in Clipper town]

Artest is only of value to someone like the Lakers who need the last piece.

I see us going backwards rather than forwards as we have no PF of any value. Beno is no defender (Ron is the onl one), and the squad needs to learn from the Celtics' approach to defense.

Could be another long year.

[deNIEd]

Gallinari at the 4 (or any of them)? That only works offensively to an extent, but the size differential becomes too much against balanced and versatile teams. Typically those teams having relatively legit defense, rebounding, and big man offense. Thus negating the offensive strength of speed at PF.

Gallinari apparently is supposed to be 6'11. (According to Knicks board, they have him at PF, or would like to be developed into a PF)

I dunno if that is true or not, but if it is, then that could potentially be the best 2/3/4 combo in the league (assuming Gallinari pans out). I mean, Artest 6'8? LeBron 6'9, Gallinari 6'11? Thats extremely tall and strong.

[Cruel_Ruin]

Still looking to deal
While there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that Geoff Petrie intends to trade Ron Artest as soon as possible given Ron-Ron's recent outburst and dissatisfaction with his contract situation, don't expect anything to happen before the July 9th signing date. Petrie won't make a move until Beno Udrih formally rejoins the Kings. But that doesn't mean he hasn't compiled a trade wish-list or begun entertaining offers. The same teams that were intererested in Artest before he committed to the final year (and $7.4 million) of his contract continue to find him appealing, especially in light of his expiring contract. The Lakers, Miami Heat, Houston Rockets, Dallas Mavericks, among others, will be exchanging phone calls with in the near future.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sp ... 13679.html

So, we're waiting until July 9th. Just six (or so) more days until the Ron-Ron era can end and we can finally start rebuilding.

[pillwenney]

So, can someone clarify the order of vets?

- Artest didn't opt out
- Petrie didn't give Artest extension
- Artest says he regrets not opting out

Is that correct?

Also, Mitch, like you said, the average casual fan knows little to nothing about basketball. I think, in their mind, they only want excitement. I think to them, a 20 win team, of young high flying dunking 20 year old kids, doing behind the back passes is much more entertaining than a slow half court 30 year old 40 win team.

Justin Williams more exciting than Brad Miller
Quincy Douby and Francisco more exciting than Anthony Johnson
that sort of thing

Wow, that's a ridiculous assessment. First off, behind the back passes and the like only happen consistently on teams that know what they're doing (veteran teams). Otherwise those end up being mostly turnovers and bricks.

Winning basketball is exciting, and no occasional fancy play is going to change that. Brad's passing is exciting. Heck if you want a lot of dunks, look at Mikki. He probably had more dunks last year than any King has ever had in a season. If you think the casual fan would rather watch a terrible team that maybe has a cool dunk every now and then over a decent team that maybe isn't as fancy, but is much better, you are absolutely kidding yourself. There are no exciting 20-win teams because high-flying dunks aren't that exciting if they're surround by bricks and turnovers.

And it also must be noted that the casual fans don't really pay the bills. It's the season ticket holders you hear hanging up the phone on the ticket salesperson when they find out that we are putting out the same pointlessness on the floor for another year.

When you look into the stands at ARCO arena you can clearly see that the "casual" fan left a long time ago.

That is just....am I the only one that is around season ticket holders? Am I the only one that has had to listen to the idiocy around me at a Kings game? The fans at games (and in some cases, the same fans I have seen over and over, so from what I've seen, season ticket holders), cheer when good things happen and complain about how "we suck" whenever anything bad happens. Hell, I live with my parents right now. They're a prime example of people who don't get it. They watch pretty much every game with me, and it's clear that they don't live outside the moment. And some of them are the types that are just like "well we should go out and get (insert unattainable superstar)" as if said player can be drawn here with a neat fireworks show.

The people on boards like these are very few and far between. That's why I first came here and have always spent so much time here. I have found it literally impossible to have an intelligent conversation not just about basketball but about the NBA, and building a team, and how the team fits together. I have never been part of a conversation like this outside of these boards, nor have I even overheard one.

I was at the draft party with a group of season ticket holders. There was a mid-sized TV in the room with the volume really low. I was the only one paying any attention to it. It was very clear to me that everybody else was there for a neat party. I was there to hear anything that Geoff had to say. It was clear that he wasn't just speaking in generalities like he normally does, he was dumbing down everything he needed to say big time. He wouldn't even talk about positions. He literally said "we're probably going to either go after a really small player or a really big player". And it was clear that he had to dumb it down that much. I couldn't tell you how many times, when I was in that room, I heard "wait, who is talking to us again?" "Oh, he's the guy that like, puts together the team". And the sentiment was pretty clear--they want this team to get better right now. They don't want to return to the Richmond era of perennial losing. That's all it was. I never once heard "well what we need to do is trade our veterans to go into a proper re-build for a few seasons" or anything remotely close to that.

[SacKingZZZ]

So, can someone clarify the order of vets?

- Artest didn't opt out
- Petrie didn't give Artest extension
- Artest says he regrets not opting out

Is that correct?

Also, Mitch, like you said, the average casual fan knows little to nothing about basketball. I think, in their mind, they only want excitement. I think to them, a 20 win team, of young high flying dunking 20 year old kids, doing behind the back passes is much more entertaining than a slow half court 30 year old 40 win team.

Justin Williams more exciting than Brad Miller
Quincy Douby and Francisco more exciting than Anthony Johnson
that sort of thing

Wow, that's a ridiculous assessment. First off, behind the back passes and the like only happen consistently on teams that know what they're doing (veteran teams). Otherwise those end up being mostly turnovers and bricks.

Winning basketball is exciting, and no occasional fancy play is going to change that. Brad's passing is exciting. Heck if you want a lot of dunks, look at Mikki. He probably had more dunks last year than any King has ever had in a season. If you think the casual fan would rather watch a terrible team that maybe has a cool dunk every now and then over a decent team that maybe isn't as fancy, but is much better, you are absolutely kidding yourself. There are no exciting 20-win teams because high-flying dunks aren't that exciting if they're surround by bricks and turnovers.

And it also must be noted that the casual fans don't really pay the bills. It's the season ticket holders you hear hanging up the phone on the ticket salesperson when they find out that we are putting out the same pointlessness on the floor for another year.

When you look into the stands at ARCO arena you can clearly see that the "casual" fan left a long time ago.

That is just....am I the only one that is around season ticket holders? Am I the only one that has had to listen to the idiocy around me at a Kings game? The fans at games (and in some cases, the same fans I have seen over and over, so from what I've seen, season ticket holders), cheer when good things happen and complain about how "we suck" whenever anything bad happens. Hell, I live with my parents right now. They're a prime example of people who don't get it. They watch pretty much every game with me, and it's clear that they don't live outside the moment. And some of them are the types that are just like "well we should go out and get (insert unattainable superstar)" as if said player can be drawn here with a neat fireworks show.

The people on boards like these are very few and far between. That's why I first came here and have always spent so much time here. I have found it literally impossible to have an intelligent conversation not just about basketball but about the NBA, and building a team, and how the team fits together. I have never been part of a conversation like this outside of these boards, nor have I even overheard one.

I was at the draft party with a group of season ticket holders. There was a mid-sized TV in the room with the volume really low. I was the only one paying any attention to it. It was very clear to me that everybody else was there for a neat party. I was there to hear anything that Geoff had to say. It was clear that he wasn't just speaking in generalities like he normally does, he was dumbing down everything he needed to say big time. He wouldn't even talk about positions. He literally said "we're probably going to either go after a really small player or a really big player". And it was clear that he had to dumb it down that much. I couldn't tell you how many times, when I was in that room, I heard "wait, who is talking to us again?" "Oh, he's the guy that like, puts together the team". And the sentiment was pretty clear--they want this team to get better right now. They don't want to return to the Richmond era of perennial losing. That's all it was. I never once heard "well what we need to do is trade our veterans to go into a proper re-build for a few seasons" or anything remotely close to that.

Well, if they are STILL here even after all that, then I would venture to guess they would stay. And I think we have young players that could really excite this crowd. Some of the best moments from this past season came from the younger players in my eyes.

[pillwenney]

So, can someone clarify the order of vets?

- Artest didn't opt out
- Petrie didn't give Artest extension
- Artest says he regrets not opting out

Is that correct?

Also, Mitch, like you said, the average casual fan knows little to nothing about basketball. I think, in their mind, they only want excitement. I think to them, a 20 win team, of young high flying dunking 20 year old kids, doing behind the back passes is much more entertaining than a slow half court 30 year old 40 win team.

Justin Williams more exciting than Brad Miller
Quincy Douby and Francisco more exciting than Anthony Johnson
that sort of thing

Wow, that's a ridiculous assessment. First off, behind the back passes and the like only happen consistently on teams that know what they're doing (veteran teams). Otherwise those end up being mostly turnovers and bricks.

Winning basketball is exciting, and no occasional fancy play is going to change that. Brad's passing is exciting. Heck if you want a lot of dunks, look at Mikki. He probably had more dunks last year than any King has ever had in a season. If you think the casual fan would rather watch a terrible team that maybe has a cool dunk every now and then over a decent team that maybe isn't as fancy, but is much better, you are absolutely kidding yourself. There are no exciting 20-win teams because high-flying dunks aren't that exciting if they're surround by bricks and turnovers.

And it also must be noted that the casual fans don't really pay the bills. It's the season ticket holders you hear hanging up the phone on the ticket salesperson when they find out that we are putting out the same pointlessness on the floor for another year.

When you look into the stands at ARCO arena you can clearly see that the "casual" fan left a long time ago.

That is just....am I the only one that is around season ticket holders? Am I the only one that has had to listen to the idiocy around me at a Kings game? The fans at games (and in some cases, the same fans I have seen over and over, so from what I've seen, season ticket holders), cheer when good things happen and complain about how "we suck" whenever anything bad happens. Hell, I live with my parents right now. They're a prime example of people who don't get it. They watch pretty much every game with me, and it's clear that they don't live outside the moment. And some of them are the types that are just like "well we should go out and get (insert unattainable superstar)" as if said player can be drawn here with a neat fireworks show.

The people on boards like these are very few and far between. That's why I first came here and have always spent so much time here. I have found it literally impossible to have an intelligent conversation not just about basketball but about the NBA, and building a team, and how the team fits together. I have never been part of a conversation like this outside of these boards, nor have I even overheard one.

I was at the draft party with a group of season ticket holders. There was a mid-sized TV in the room with the volume really low. I was the only one paying any attention to it. It was very clear to me that everybody else was there for a neat party. I was there to hear anything that Geoff had to say. It was clear that he wasn't just speaking in generalities like he normally does, he was dumbing down everything he needed to say big time. He wouldn't even talk about positions. He literally said "we're probably going to either go after a really small player or a really big player". And it was clear that he had to dumb it down that much. I couldn't tell you how many times, when I was in that room, I heard "wait, who is talking to us again?" "Oh, he's the guy that like, puts together the team". And the sentiment was pretty clear--they want this team to get better right now. They don't want to return to the Richmond era of perennial losing. That's all it was. I never once heard "well what we need to do is trade our veterans to go into a proper re-build for a few seasons" or anything remotely close to that.

Well, if they are STILL here even after all that, then I would venture to guess they would stay. And I think we have young players that could really excite this crowd. Some of the best moments from this past season came from the younger players in my eyes.

Losing fans is a slow process. They're hoping this team gets better this year. If they don't the size of the fanbase is likely to dwindle more.

And regardless of some nice plays and exciting moments, nobody is going to pay a ton of money to go see a team that is probably going to lose that night. It's just not worth it to see some young guys make a nice play surrounded by a bunch of mistakes. The team that we have now was at least pretty damn good at home.

[SacKingZZZ]

Losing fans is a slow process. They're hoping this team gets better this year. If they don't the size of the fanbase is likely to dwindle more.

And regardless of some nice plays and exciting moments, nobody is going to pay a ton of money to go see a team that is probably going to lose that night. It's just not worth it to see some young guys make a nice play surrounded by a bunch of mistakes. The team that we have now was at least pretty damn good at home.

Well we're mediocre now based around Artest/Miller and it's already pretty dang dwindled if you ask me with very little signs for improvement. And if they refuse to do the RIGHT thing because we "pretty damn good at home" well, that's just sad. The Maloofs have said themselves they make no money anyway. And the league at least compensates teams financially for basically rebuilding and being under the cap.

[pillwenney]

Well we're mediocre now based around Artest/Miller and it's already pretty dang dwindled if you ask me with very little signs for improvement. And if they refuse to do the RIGHT thing because we "pretty damn good at home" well, that's just sad. The Maloofs have said themselves they make no money anyway. And the league at least compensates teams financially for basically rebuilding and being under the cap.

Well the crowd can improve as the team does, but that's not the point--the point is that it can get worse, and will if the team gets worse.

And to imply that because the Maloofs made a statement like that (which I'll take your word for), that they don't care about money is pretty unfounded. They have made multiple moves in the past to get the team under the luxury tax, their ticket prices are among the highest in the league, and they tried to basically scam the city into building an arena for which they would get all the profits.

And I think you mean the league compensates teams for being under the luxury tax, which they don't. They penalize teams for being over, and we probably won't be (because a move was made specifically to avoid that).

[BMiller52]

So, can someone clarify the order of vets?

- Artest didn't opt out
- Petrie didn't give Artest extension
- Artest says he regrets not opting out

Is that correct?

Also, Mitch, like you said, the average casual fan knows little to nothing about basketball. I think, in their mind, they only want excitement. I think to them, a 20 win team, of young high flying dunking 20 year old kids, doing behind the back passes is much more entertaining than a slow half court 30 year old 40 win team.

Justin Williams more exciting than Brad Miller
Quincy Douby and Francisco more exciting than Anthony Johnson
that sort of thing

Wow, that's a ridiculous assessment. First off, behind the back passes and the like only happen consistently on teams that know what they're doing (veteran teams). Otherwise those end up being mostly turnovers and bricks.

Winning basketball is exciting, and no occasional fancy play is going to change that. Brad's passing is exciting. Heck if you want a lot of dunks, look at Mikki. He probably had more dunks last year than any King has ever had in a season. If you think the casual fan would rather watch a terrible team that maybe has a cool dunk every now and then over a decent team that maybe isn't as fancy, but is much better, you are absolutely kidding yourself. There are no exciting 20-win teams because high-flying dunks aren't that exciting if they're surround by bricks and turnovers.

And it also must be noted that the casual fans don't really pay the bills. It's the season ticket holders you hear hanging up the phone on the ticket salesperson when they find out that we are putting out the same pointlessness on the floor for another year.

When you look into the stands at ARCO arena you can clearly see that the "casual" fan left a long time ago.

That is just....am I the only one that is around season ticket holders? Am I the only one that has had to listen to the idiocy around me at a Kings game? The fans at games (and in some cases, the same fans I have seen over and over, so from what I've seen, season ticket holders), cheer when good things happen and complain about how "we suck" whenever anything bad happens. Hell, I live with my parents right now. They're a prime example of people who don't get it. They watch pretty much every game with me, and it's clear that they don't live outside the moment. And some of them are the types that are just like "well we should go out and get (insert unattainable superstar)" as if said player can be drawn here with a neat fireworks show.

The people on boards like these are very few and far between. That's why I first came here and have always spent so much time here. I have found it literally impossible to have an intelligent conversation not just about basketball but about the NBA, and building a team, and how the team fits together. I have never been part of a conversation like this outside of these boards, nor have I even overheard one.

I was at the draft party with a group of season ticket holders. There was a mid-sized TV in the room with the volume really low. I was the only one paying any attention to it. It was very clear to me that everybody else was there for a neat party. I was there to hear anything that Geoff had to say. It was clear that he wasn't just speaking in generalities like he normally does, he was dumbing down everything he needed to say big time. He wouldn't even talk about positions. He literally said "we're probably going to either go after a really small player or a really big player". And it was clear that he had to dumb it down that much. I couldn't tell you how many times, when I was in that room, I heard "wait, who is talking to us again?" "Oh, he's the guy that like, puts together the team". And the sentiment was pretty clear--they want this team to get better right now. They don't want to return to the Richmond era of perennial losing. That's all it was. I never once heard "well what we need to do is trade our veterans to go into a proper re-build for a few seasons" or anything remotely close to that.

Yeah Mitch is right. To be honest there were more of the "intelligent fans" in the regular stands. I was there and I heard some dude talking to his family how he forgot his draft board at home, another 2 or 3 people debating PG or PF, etc. I think a lot of the real fans have been priced out of attending a lot of games because the economy, but that's another story. The season ticket holders are the people with enough money to buy season tickets, and you better believe they're not throwing down thousands of dollars to watch a team get 20 wins. That just doesn't happen. And if you do get 20 wins in a season YOU BETTER get a top 3 pick or the majority of those people are leaving, because you're still without a lot of the hope a young team gets.

If you want to debate my point, look at the grizzlies. 2 or 3 years ago they had 45-50 wins and they filled the stands pretty much. Then they went into a rebuilding stage, haven't gotten a top 3 pick, and a lot of people became unexcited because they weren't decent-good anymore and they haven't gotten a top 3 pick so there's not a lot of hope OR entertainment.

[thebiggesthomer]

Everyone is so down on this team leave it alone and let what happens happen jeez. I mean seriously did anyone think last years team was close to a 38 win team? No not many people thought they would win that many so we go out and get a rebounder in thompson and a young pg to play behind beno and your still not happy. We all want the same thing which is a parade but we gotta be patient and let them team play ron is ron simple as that he will put 100% into every game and he will be playing for a contract ron has made it very clear that he loves Sacramento and wants to be here but we dont want him and he doesn't wanna leave but hes being forced out.